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They apparently switched us to 17.15p per unit in December from our old 9.5p rate. Just found this out now as we've just got the bill. Blogged the details - Click 'Blog' up at the top if you are remotely interested in such dull things. I'm a bit cross mind.
Anyone else suffered the 'rolling contract' issue as a small/medium business?
Ouch
Sounds like you need to turn the coffee machine off overnight.
jeezus - how bigs the office!?
I was more thinking that the big bill was something to do with the switching from 9.5p to 17.15p my self.
Coffee machine is always off overnight, not a single fillament bulb in the building and we have a computer switch off policy.. blah blah.. in short, we don't waste it if we can help it.
Two floors.. 9 staff
Jeeeeze - that's pretty scary.
17.9p is steep - is it a business rate or something?
what did npower have to say?
Oh and because we don't pay by DD there's a 2% surcharge.
Now I love Direct Debits. They are great. But with our subs we discount the rate for using it rather than charge extra for those who don't.
It is a business tariff. Called them yesterday and the account lady said they'd pass my details to their sales dept who would call back to see if we could get a 'more competitive rate'. Google research wodl suggest this is pretty common and the prospects of getting a competitive rate are quite remote. They can do this apparently because I didn;t write to them in September to tell them I wanted to leave them. Thing is in September I didn;t want to switch suppliers as I was reasonably happy with the rate we were paying at the time. Can't quite make sense of that. Seems that if we are happy with them they charge us more. If we are unhappy we leave, but only with 3 months notice. Now we've missed that September deadline we are stuck with them for another year at this new rate, until I can write to them next September to tell them we want to switch in December.
No call back yet. I'll give them another 20 minutes before I go for them!
Same difference apart from marketing, Mark.
I had the same issue with British Gas (electric supply), my wife (who works with me) managed to negotiate it down from something like 22p per unit down to 7p a unit and they back dated it from when we moved into the new premises.
We have a canal lock right outside 🙂
Bugger the canal - get them turbo trainers wired in!
Oh and because we don't pay by DD there's a 2% surcharge.
Now I love Direct Debits. They are great. But with our subs we discount the rate for using it rather than charge extra for those who don't.
Funny... that sounds like a hidden administration charge to me. Personally I think they're wholly unreasonable, but not everyone agrees 😉
Bad news on the electricty bill, but it still sounds like a lot. Do you have electric heating?
Jezzuusss ... £777 ... your neighbour might be borrowing your electricity for the upkeep of his / her "garden" in the attic?
Do they not have to notify you of any changes in their charging before they do it?
Did they inform you of the price rise, per unit, at the time eg in December?
Mark - AdministratorWe have a canal lock right outside [:-)]
Check out the Low Head ones then 8)
Mol, it's not the same. We just took Direct Debit provision of our subs in house and we definitely started from the current subs rate and went down. yes.. definitely went down, reflecting the reality that DD subs are cheaper for us to run and get a better renewal rate and so we can pass on savings and make them cost less.
Surely the hamsters that ran the old forum are out of a job now, can you not use them to power a generator?
The small print suggests they don't have to warn us that the notice period is due. And they can change the rate at will of any new contract. The contract renewed automatically as soon as the notice period deadline in September passed. Apparently if we'd given them 89 days notice we would have been told we were too late and that we'd have to wait another year to give notice again. In short, their contract seems tight and they do this a lot it would seem.
About to call them now and see what they have to say.. standby..
Switch everything off and i mean everything, at the plug, not the fuse box, and see if the meter goes round or the figures move, may be a dodgy meter, or even dodgyer meter reader.
Going to check everything consumptionwise, but the issue is not the amount (weel it is.. it's mahoosive!) but the massive increase in the rate they've stuck us with.
But from 6th December to 19th February we apparently used 3218 kwh!
That's rather a lot!
It'll have been the fairy lights on the Christmas tree
Yeah, get to the meter and check. They do f*ck up the meter readings a lot.
Utility privatisation was sold to us by Thatcher's government as giving the customer choice and cheaper prices due to the introduction of competition. It was all supposed to be regulated too. (no i'm not pro-labour or pro-liberal btw)
All I can see are companies concocting the most complicated tariffs, with restrictive terms, being able to contractually lock us into bad deals which only serve to boost their margins.
It feels like we are the mugs to be taken advantage of and the regulator lets them get away with it.
Why can't the regulator grow a set of balls and force these companies to charge one price for their energy, regardless of how and when a customer pays? (like it used to be - bar economy seven) Contracts should be be no more than 30 days and rolling.
If an energy company truly believes in offering a competitive deal, it wouldn't need to create such a minefield.
Basically. all these energy firms are conning us!
I switched from N-Power last month. They were penalising me for my loyalty by not automatically switching me to a better tariff when one was introduced. When they asked me why I was leaving I told them that they should automatically keep their customers on the best deal. They told me that the onus was on me to go online and make the switch, but at no stage did they tell me a better deal was available, or suggest that i could do this. I only discovered they had 14 different tariffs when i went online to seek a different supplier.
I'm resigned to the fact that unless you keep tabs on absolutely everything you pay for these days, [u]you're gonna get screwed[/u]! Most people are too busy or simply don't realise this, but what a lot of hassle! There is no customer care, no concept of customer with these firms. Only the agile avoid these scams, the rest pay.
Many are buying log burners and finding alternatives. I can only see this trend increasing.
The problem is we spunked away the proceeds of North Sea oil instead of investing in nuclear energy. We flogged everything off to foreign companies and now buy most of our energy from Russia and France. Strategically, the UK is is a weak position, so expect energy prices to stay high and then increase.
I'm sorry Mark!
Brilliant web forum though - I never ranted so much in all my life! 😆
Matt's beard trimmer!
Matt's beard trimmer!
Would've thought that would need to be petrol!
just finished a meeting where one of the things on the agenda each week is gas cost's. We saved just a tad over £2300 last week after the boss negotiated a reduction from 2.95 too 2.17 a unit 😀
Defo check the meter. Not that it makes any difference. I gave meter readings regularly and they ****ed up my bill massively once. Asked them how come when I provide meter readings and they said "Oh we don't actually use them, we just estimate". Err, but you ask for meter readings so you don't have to estimate?! "Yeah, its a bit of a flaw in the system".
Who's got the smiley banging his nut against the wall?
Oh, and [url= http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/ ]EST[/url], not that it sounds liek you need it.
Regulators have no balls as they want a nice job on company boards when they move on. That won't happen if the rock the boat of the old boys network or cut down on thier pocket money.
Utility companies all have overly opaque charging methods.
Impossible to find the 'best' deal. Even those working in the industry can't tell you where to place you bets, which is what choosing a tariff is like at the moment.
I have to agree that any from of differential pricing based on payment method amounts to the same thing to the consumer, whether 'discounts' or 'charges' are made. No point moaning about it though, just go DD if it's cheapest. Although DD with utility companies can leave you with a nasty shock/hole in your account. You're safe setting up a DD with Singletrack though*.
*I'm not a financial adviser, so don't try and sue me if I'm wrong. Please.
Top tip 😉 - only fill the kettle with the water you require. A kettle for one cup of water takes 40 seconds to boil. A full kettle takes 3 minutes. You will save 2minutes 20 seconds and 1.1p each time you boil up. For an average household this is £16 a year. 9.33 minutes wasted each day adds up to a staggering 56 hours a year.
Small savings all add up. I have reduced my electicity consumption by 10% year on year. Mainly by switching off lights and unused appliances.
Things like fan heaters, cookers and tumble dryers get through lots of energy.
Reducing office usage is almost impossible and the rates you are paying are shocking.
I think evilzone have hacked npower.
Spongebob is spot on with our energy supply situation.
Still not a nice thing with that price hike, our site bill has gone from £48,000 to £75,000 per month. Having said that energy is only 10% of our costs!
They can't just put anything they like in the contract can they? It has to be reasonable. And this doesn't sound very reasonable.
Has someone challenged this in the courts??
I'd change suppliers on principle.
did the envelope contain a courtesy ball gag?
perhaps all that treadmill bike testing over the winter periods wasn't such a hot idea after all! 😆
Bastards. They are all bastards. Every ****ing single one of them. Bastards. Leccy, Gas, Telephone, Internets; the whole ****ing greedy lot of them.
I don't think I need to explain who is ultimately responsible (please die, please).
Re-nationalise the bloody lot. Everyone needs leccy, water, gas and telecoms. It's a disgrace how much we all pay for these things, just so's shareholders can enjoy big dividends.
Bizarrely, I have actually just received a letter informing me I am entitled to a Council Tax refund. Appears they owe [i]me[/i] £15 something.
I'm still in shock...
My council tax has gone up £300. I thought we were in recession!
I expect it's all those index linked pensions they have to pay for.
We'll keep paying coz we have to.
mark do you want to put this one to bed at all?
Latest..
Sales rep called.. Confirmed that our contract had 'rolled over'. Said, 'Did you not write to us to end your contract then?' then offered to reduce the rate to 12p/unit but only on condition we extend our contract term to 2 years.
I said only if you backdate it to december. he said he couldn't do that. I said, in that case we'll stick with the higher rate and I'll send in a letter of termination now so that our contract ends in december and they lose a customer. He's gone to talk to his 'manager'. Waiting for a call back.
that p/kwh? mark
12p/kwh
Last week I had a water bill - 6 months worth (was a bit late in telling them we moved in) - £1,346. I live in a two bedroom flat 🙁
you have mail mark
Last week I had a water bill - 6 months worth (was a bit late in telling them we moved in) - £1,346. I live in a two bedroom flat
W
T
F?????????
6 months? That's more like 6 years worth!!! Or have you got a 25m swimming pool in your flat?
Slight error there, methinks. Decimal point in the wrong place?
£91 Mw/Hr here. (Big factory / Offices / Labs)
But that was last August, might have gone up since.
What always baffles me is the amount used over a weekend, even with machines off its still 700Kw/Hrs each weekend.
All offices now have movement sensors to knock lights off till someone moves.
Mark,
I run a small business (7 staff 1 office, heavy computer use) but have the same kinds of switch off policies, kettle filling, and so on as you clearly do. I use E.On. My rates are:
Primary units:9.21p/Kwh
Secondary units 8.14p/Kwh
Last quarter was £227.69 (and all our heating is 'leccy)
prices are down at the moment
how much power do you use in a month?
RudeBoy - at a guess it's to do with the shower being half on for pretty much those whole six months. I was constantly reminding the landlord about it but he's only just got round to sorting it out. We are also (unbeknownst to me) on a meter. Adding those two factors together = one he-youge bill. Obviously there might be an error on it too but I think it could be right.
nic c that is a superb rate
[i]I don't think I need to explain who is ultimately responsible (please die, please).[/i]
I really don't think it's fair to blame this one on Smee 😉
[i]Re-nationalise the bloody lot. Everyone needs leccy, water, gas and telecoms. It's a disgrace how much we all pay for these things, just so's shareholders can enjoy big dividends.[/i]
Good idea. Because, as has been proven countless times, state run monopolies are known to be tre-[b]mend[/b]-ously efficient. 🙄
Be careful who you go with on these commercial contracts, especially if you're on DD prepayment.
I negotiated a cracking rate for our electric with E4B, similar to Nick Cs rate.
Seemed it was too good a rate, as the ****ers went bust with 400 quid of ours. So we're now bottom of a very interesting creditors list - some big banks in there lost thousands!
Good idea. Because, as has been proven countless times, state run monopolies are known to be tre-mend-ously efficient.
The commercial companies don't seem to be doing much better...
possibly have to disagree there
we are not doing too shabbily
Efficient at what?
Efficient at hiding the true cost to the consumer when they sign up to their contract?
What you choose to be efficient at is as important as how successful you are at achieving that efficiency.
Would our bills be less without the additional costs of competition, marketing and the pursuit of profits? I don't know, but it's not as clear as simply saying that things would be less 'efficient' without commercial pressures.
Good idea. Because, as has been proven countless times, state run monopolies are known to be tre-mend-ously efficient
They are, if they are invested in, rather than run down, then sold off cheap, to make quick profits for corrupt greedy self serving politicians and their cronies.
I grew up when Gas, Leccy and Water were all state-run, and bills were relatively a lot lower than they are now.
I mean, water, ffs; a basic necessity of life. Why do we have to pay for Water, when our taxes are spent instead on guns and bombs, which don't really serve us all that well? I don't want guns and bombs for use in ****ed up immoral foreign wars, I want clean water, leccy and gas, and telecoms. I am happy to pay a reasonable amount for these things (apart from Water), as I need them, and I appreciate that it costs money to run these industries. What I don't appreciate is that I should also have to pay a premium to line the pockets of 'investors'.
Disgusting.
RudeBoy you can still get free water, just take it from the river, streams, etc.
Gary_M, you have to pay to take water from any of those sources if you want enough for a household (or far more likely for farming).
Dig your own well : you still have to pay for the water you extract.
I think that's possibly illegal, actually; certainly in the quantities necessary for showering, bathing, toilet, etc.
We shoon't have to pay for water, at least. Should be paid for through taxes. A vital necessity should not be controlled by any profit-making private enterprise. That is morally wrong.
ok..
Sort of compromise done..
New rate of 12.8p/kwh on a new contract for two years. But backdated to Dcember 6th so they are readjusting our current bill down a bit.
Now, we need to switch the 3kw coffee machine off a bit more often - seriously!
rude boy
i typed out a massive reply but couldn't be bothered finishing it
we are not bastards
calm down, you will do yourself a mischief
sit down and have a think how leccy gets to your house, and think of how much tax payers money it would take to keep it running?
Not as much as it does to finance illegal and immoral foreign wars...
Questions: How much profit did British Gas and BT etc make last year?
Where does that profit go?
People who work in any system can be lovely well meaning people, doing their job well, but that doesn't make the system right or fair.
France, we sold the utility companies off to have lower taxes for a bit, and now we are reaping what was sown.
People were happy to have lower taxes, so shouldn't really moan now the consequences have come home to roost.
If they moaned at the time of the sell-offs, or were too young to moan at the time, then yes, they're allowed to moan very loud now.
I'm with all the other Ragged Trousered Philanthropists devotees here
The necessities of life should be publicly owned & run for the good of the public not just shareholders
[i]I grew up when Gas, Leccy and Water were all state-run, and bills were relatively a lot lower than they are now. [/i]
Have you got the numbers to back that up? I'm not sure it's actually the case, I think the cost of utilities hs gone down in real terms (I could be wrong, a definitive answer would be good)
[i]What I don't appreciate is that I should also have to pay a premium to line the pockets of 'investors'.[/i]
Many/most of those investors being pension funds, without which we'd be screwed.
I think (and I don't have the figures) that the amounts taken as profit (much of which is reinvested) are probaby less than the amount that would be wasted if it were run by the state. Name one, well run, efficient, state-controlled entity.
last year we made no profit because we reinvested everything in a power station and a new wind farm
this year we will be investing in upgrading another power station and work will start on another wind farm
The cost of utilities did go down in real terms for a long time after privatisation. Not sure on the position now as we are still riding out the commodity spike in gas and power that happened and is finished in oil.
I'm unsure if we would be in a better position now if we had remained a nationalised industry, I suspect we would as the govenment would'nt have been taxing North Sea revenues but reinvesting them more heavily in storage and generation.
With regard to tarriffs Spongebob, all companies have a standard tarrif which will go up and down with the market, albeit smoothed out a bit so you dont have to pay the spike and you pay a bit more when prices are at the bottom. On the whole Gas and power is a low margin business 4-5% so what we are charging you is far form extortion, and what is left after dividends is being reinvested in future supply. We can't predict the forward price that well as we are a NET importer of Gas so fixed tarrifs ofted DO work well for customers. I fixed in 2005 at a premium and thats is about 35% lower than the standard tariff today. I never forsaw the current comodity price!
With regards investors, Most of our shares are held by big funds which are your pension, its in your intrests generaly for us to do well and probably not to buy gas and Power from businesses owned by companies not listed on the FTSE 100.*
With regard not knowing how much you use or are paying - people need to wake up. You spend more on Gas and Power than on petrol and I bet you can tell me your cars mpg and the price of fuel, but I bet you cant do the same for your boiler or gas bill!
*These are my views not the views of the utility comapy I work for 🙂
Have you got the numbers to back that up? I'm not sure it's actually the case,
Don't need figures. Everyone I know, who new the 70s and before, says that the relative cost of fuel has gone up. And they've certainly gone up by a massive amount in the last year or so.
Many/most of those investors being pension funds, without which we'd be screwed.
Who'd be screwed? There are plenty of other things for pension funds to invest in. And, like, pension funds are so secure, right?
Profits from utilities could go into increasing state pensions, thius decreasing the need for private pension plans.
Hide your heads in the sand all you like; privatising everything was a mistake. Why does everything have to be about money? What about people, ffs?
Wildrnes, who's 'we'? British Gas?
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/21/centricabusiness.utilities?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront ]Greedy[/url]
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7256096.stm ]Grasping[/url]
[url= http://www.mirror.co.uk/sunday-mirror/2008/01/27/british-gasp-98487-20299484/ ]Self-serving[/url]
[url= http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article4434019.ece ]Bastards.[/url]
Thoe Government now pays out 'winter fuel payments' to elderly and vulnerable people, as many of them simply cannot afford the huge costs of heating their homes adequately, during winter. Where does this money come from? Taxpayers. While shareholders reap huge dividends.
No, sorry, Necessary utilities should not be in the hands of private enterprise. Simple as that. You can make whatever bogus economic argument you like; People should come before profit.
Rudeboy, like I just said, you need to put those profits in context. They are 5% margin. British Gas have to publish their results here, no such requirement for the other utilities which are privatley owned. I wonder what EDF and EON are pocketing in terms of margin from UK consumers.
Did you miss the bit where I said that profits go to Uk pensions, that includes investments made by local governments for their pension pots too you know.
Excuse me, but don't go telling me that "UK Pensions" are "our pensions" because they're not.
Private pension funds protect the rich in retirement far more than the rest of us, that's if they protect anyone at all and don't disappear leaving the tax payer to foot the bill.
Did you miss the bit where I said that profits go to Uk pensions, that includes investments made by local governments for their pension pots too you know.
I did, actually. I'm on about SRP, not any other form of additional payment. This comes from the National Insurance Fund, toward which we all pay. Unless I'm missing something?
I admit I'm not expert on the complexities of our Economy, but I know one thing; Privatisation hazzunt worked. Simply because there is insufficient regulation. Becasuse our spineless governments don't have the balls to regulate private industries sufficiently, to ensure any wealth generated by profit is spread a little more fairly and evenly throughout our society.
Norway's fuel industries are mainly state-owned. People pay relatively high taxes in Norway, but enjoy a much higher standard of living than in the UK. Granted, it has a much smaller population, but they spread the wealth more evenly. Norway has nothing like the levels of social deprivation we have in Britain.
Norway looks after it's people better than Britain does.
Why is our economy ****ed? Why are we facing increased unemployment, less resources to tackle growing social issues? And increasing amount of Child Poverty?
Greed. Pure and simple.
So, all the utilities were sold off, the Quick Buck made, and now we have nowt to fall back on.
Brilliant.
Profit before people; cos, of course, people don't matter, right?
[i]Don't need figures. Everyone I know, who new the 70s and before, says that the relative cost of fuel has gone up. And they've certainly gone up by a massive amount in the last year or so.[/i]
Oh right, as long as we can base everything on anecdotal evidence and hearsay then everything will be just dandy.
Did you know that policemen are getting younger too. And, of course, it wouldn't have happened in my day, when this was all fields...
Sheesh.