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Unfortunately because of the specifics of my building neither is possible under current laws / building arrangements
So despite it being within your sphere of influence, it's too hard for you to do something about? and it's easier to just complain on the internet about others not doing enough.
Same. old. bullshit.
If the planning laws don't permit PV panels on communal roofs or whatever is holding your building back, petition and get public buy-in, get the rules amended and make it happen.
The biggest individual polluters (the rich) are already willing to pay
This goes to the heart of the issue. If the rich have a licence to pollute they'll carry on polluting. As Mr Monbiot says above, we need to come up with a new framework for measuring economic success and progress. Part of that is going to be removing the ability of people to get so rich that they can remove themselves from the standards applied to everyone else. That means either limiting how rich they can get, or denying them the freedom to do certain things (like fly around the world in private jets as much as they want), maybe even both. So for instance on the issue of flying, then an easy solution would be to ban private jets and force the rich to use commercial airlines. Another could be rationing the number of flights or airmiles an individual can take or use.
As I said - the specifics of my building make this impossible. Its not too hard to do. its not possible without both law change and change in use of the building.
My building contains a pub, 3 shops, 10 offices and is a listed building in a conservation area and has very little south facing sloping roof that is not shaded by chimney stacks. I might get 4 panels in to be shared by 15 properties
its a good idea but unfortunately not one that can be applied to this building.
I have done what I can. I have spent tens of thousands on insulation. the smaller flat has heating bills of a couple of hundred a year and the one I live in is not a lot more
its not possible without both law change
Respectfully, you are both tenacious, communicate fairly well, up for a good argument and care about the environment. Do you not think you could put to good use and fight for a law change to make solar PV panels easier to fit to tenement blocks?
Could you not use those skills to work with the wider Leith / Edinburgh community to get solar panels onto communal roofs? THAT would be a worthwhile project to spend your energy on which could foster actual results.
Only you just pretty much ignored pollution with the exception of CO2.
(and how the electricity for the EV is generated)
Well, you are right that currently the rare metals (cobalt is a key one) are produced in heavily polluting mines. But the solution to that is not to stop making EVs, it's to stop polluting whilst we extract cobalt - or not use cobalt. There are so many lines of research into battery alternatives currently, with successes being reported all the time, that we have a lot of choice in that area. Our biggest problem there is that it is being left up to the markets, rather than being mandated by anyone.
Regarding how electricity is generated - of course I haven't ignored it (you'd have to be pretty dim to do that). It's actually a key benefit. We know how to generate large amounts of electricity cleanly and renewably; not so for diesel. And in most cases an EV battery is already a great energy storage device to even out demand. Conversely, whilst making diesel or petrol renewably is being worked on it's going to be harder and take more time to bring online. And come with more compromises (e.g. arable land use).
Another could be rationing the number of flights or airmiles an individual can take or use.
@Daffy suggested as much on page one. It's probably the biggest single use of Co2 that most folks do every year.
Chevychase
If you don’t understand how climate change and ecological devestation are both intimately and irrevocably linked, that the same problems are causal for both and the solutions to both are largely the same solutions, and further if you’re not alarmed by the astonishing rate of biosphere decline at least equally to the (related) warming of the planet problem – and understand that this is an existential issue for life on the planet as we know it – then you lack the capacity for any meaningful contribution in the debate.
Of course, you can give your opinion, but it’s like an anti-vaxxers opinion on cellular biology. Pointless to listen to.
I don't need to understand his complicated stuff.
Some really clever if smelly bloke who'd figured out how to make his cat vegan explained it all to me.
Apparently we need to just get rid of nuclear power, buy bamboo socks and eat dolphin friendly tuna etc. and mother earth will heal.
I know this is correct, he said so but I'm starting to doubt the wisdom of those crystals he sold me and I'm sure his cat dying had **** all todo with the vegan diet.
Molgrips
Well, you are right that currently the rare metals (cobalt is a key one) are produced in heavily polluting mines. But the solution to that is not to stop making EVs, it’s to stop polluting whilst we extract cobalt – or not use cobalt.
or we could just prioritise
Regarding how electricity is generated – of course I haven’t ignored it (you’d have to be pretty dim to do that). It’s actually a key benefit. We know how to generate large amounts of electricity cleanly and renewably
Yep it's called fission
Except tofu eating vegan cat owners don't like it...
Meanwhile ... 1/2 the developing world need to boil water to drink and cook and are burning wood.
Maybe we could address that?
@Daffy suggested as much on page one. It’s probably the biggest single use of Co2 that most folks do every year.
Yup. It's the only feasible solution. For instance I don't think it would be unreasonable for each person to be limited to the equivalent of one short haul return flight per year. If they want to go further then they'll have to use two year's worth of rations. That's probably still too much in carbon terms, but then not everyone will use their ration, and they could be incentivised to do that selling it back to the govt.
Same goes for driving and eating meat/dairy products.
nickc
It’s probably the biggest single use of Co2 that most folks do every year.
This may surprise you but most of the world have NEVER been on a plane...
1/2 the developing world need to boil water to drink and cook and are burning wood.
Maybe we could address that?
The developing world contribute almost nothing per capita to climate change. They aren't the problem, we are.
This may surprise you but most of the world have NEVER been on a plane…
To echo what Dazh has already said, most of the world ain't the issue, it's us in the US and Europe.
The rest of the world is an issue. As developing nations develop they will emit more greenhouse gases. Or are you telling them they cannot have clean water fridges and so on?
The developing world contribute almost nothing per capita to climate change. They aren’t the problem, we are.
cool, lets crack on and burn more rain forests then
god forbid we try and provide the 3rd world with cleaner energy
Regarding developing countries, google has this to say:
Sixty-three percent of annual emissions are produced by developing countries.
There are apparently 152 countries classed as 'Developing' including China, Russia and India:
List of Developing Countries
To echo what Dazh has already said, most of the world ain’t the issue, it’s us in the US and Europe.
Australians have large individual Carbon footprints too. Greater than the UK average.
12.7t av UK citizen
21t av US citizen
20t Australian
0.7t Malawian
We need to be aiming for 5t per person in the West/developed nations
@Daffy suggested as much on page one. It’s probably the biggest single use of Co2 that most folks do every year.
Was the suggestion not one flight unless visiting family. Never work as visiting family is no more valid than going on holiday for another person.
Yep it’s called fission
No it's not, it's neither clean nor renewable. And I say that as probably one of the bigger enthusiasts of nuclear here.
I'll ask again:
So you either need to work from home, move work to the village, move people to where work is or provide a low carbon form of travel for them. You don’t “need to drive”
Aye so the guy working at the hydro/water plant up a glen?
I get made redundant and need to find work elsewhere, what about my wife and family?
We’re getting to the crux of the issue here – that awful four letter word: WORK. Why is everyone running around like headless chickens working all the time? Oh yeah, to pay for shit they don’t need and rent/mortgages. The whole system needs binning and starting again.
How else are you going to convince people to climb up wind turbines to perform maintenance?
Work with highly radioactive isotopes?
Clear sewers?
squirrelking - as before
the changes I want are phased over a generation ramping up year by year to allow time for the society changes that are needed
How else are you going to convince people to climb up wind turbines to perform maintenance?
Work with highly radioactive isotopes?
Clear sewers?
By paying them more. It's a fallacy that working less or ensuring a basic level of income disincentivises people from working. Work should be something people do because they enjoy it, are fulfilled by it, or to improve their living standards. It shouldn't be something that people have to do to survive. Yes, there will be jobs which are so horrible no one will want to do them. The solution in many of these cases is to automate them, or make them very lucrative. In other cases maybe we mandate service in some way. We already do this for things like jury service, why not for other things? You could also use them as punishment for committing crime. Instead of sending people to prison, send them down the sewers. We already do this in the form of community service.
the changes I want are phased over a generation ramping up year by year to allow time for the society changes that are needed
That's not actually answering my questions. Can you?
By paying them more.
And how does that feed into stopping "everyone running around like headless chickens working all the time[...]to pay for shit they don’t need and rent/mortgages."?
I'm not saying I disagree with what you say but if nobody is spending money on "stuff" then what are we paying them for?
How else are you going to convince people to climb up wind turbines to perform maintenance?
Work with highly radioactive isotopes?
Clear sewers?
🤔
Good question. You know those insufferable blowhards who’re always banging on about how they’ve never had a day off sick in their lives, and that they’d go mad and wouldn’t know what to do with themselves if they didn’t have a job, and would carry on working if they won the lottery..? Well, them.
Somewhat difficult squirrelking as I don't have full info and I have not suggested any great immediate changes
On moving the workers up the glen then its up to the employer to find and provide low carbon transport. Depends on distance and terrain. could be an electric bus, could be a funicular water powered could be e bikes could be alter shift patterns to reduce movements of people there is not enough info to make a proper answer
You get made redundant? I don't understand what I am supposed to be answering? Is this now or in 20 years? makes a big difference to the answer and what about your wife and kids. context? Whats the issue and the question?
Good question. You know those insufferable blowhards who’re always banging on about how they’ve never had a day off sick in their lives, and that they’d go mad and wouldn’t know what to do with themselves if they didn’t have a job, and would carry on working if they won the lottery..? Well, them.
Best recommendation so far. I hate those people.
I’m not saying I disagree with what you say but if nobody is spending money on “stuff” then what are we paying them for?
There will still be consumerism in a post-carbon world, and there will still be capitalism. But the 'stuff' people spend money on will need to be sustainable. Most of it will be digital. We already do this in the form of music, television and other media. We also spend money on leisure activities such as eating out, meeting friends, going to gigs/events or simply down the pub. Most of the leisure activities we do can be sustainable. We just won't be able to swan off to Magaluf for a weekend stag do or buy clothes and consumer goods that we don't use or need. And on the occasions we want to go mountain biking in places like moab, then we'll need to plan ahead and use our carbon/flying rations carefully.
I have said many times. convert the economy to carbon taxation and over a generation ramp it up. Make the polluter pay.
so after multiple pages of dithering about on commuting problems, your grand plan is the one the I and others espoused earlier on the thread, but despite the climate emergency, you’d implement it over a generation…perfect.
Respectfully, you are both tenacious, communicate fairly well, up for a good argument and care about the environment.
3/4. The communications clearly need work.
How do we stop the family at my wife's work buying a new set of matching Christmas pyjamas every year?
Make pyjamas £50 a set?
Ban pyjamas?
Ban seasonal pyjamas?
Ration pyjamas?
Regulate nightclothes allowances, with regular inspections?
It's a tough one (serious point not joking)
How do we continue technological development without consumerism?
Again, not rhetorical - serious question. Do you just not have technology? What if technology is the only way to save us?
Daffy - I said it much earlier as well
Ban imports. They only buy this shite because it's there. Would help out quality british brands too. HebPyjCo?
How do we stop the family at my wife’s work buying a new set of matching Christmas pyjamas every year?
Kill them along with all the ****s that wear Christmas jumpers.
Just ban private cars from town/ city centres.
Transport hubs located at the brownfield sites, until we can find a valid way to decontaminate them (hemp cultivation?)
Lenr/ cold fusion seems to be the way forward. Combine graphene tech into the roads and maybe mag-lev will become viable.
The real logjam in this country is skint people trying to afford to live in £200k houses.
This hike in the subsistence rate feeds back into the wider economy as inflation. More demand for scarce resources. Can the petrochemical industry meet these demands?
Plastics (rayon, etc) replaced hemp as the source of our textiles. Most of the plastic winds up in the oceans, not biodegrading.
So, we need to expand the supply-side of the economy and boost hemp production.
The stately piles would make great abodes for the truly skint to farm hemp and regain some stability to their lives. It could take centuries to overcome the damage they’ve endured.
Growing the hemp would make great house insulation, as well as fantastic house building materials.
We’re going to have to bite the bullet and move the Houses of Parliament, national gallery, library, etc, out of London altogether and take a lot of the heat out of englands south east.
I don’t think that constantly expanding the oxbridge university’s helps either. It’s just cramming more people onto greenfield sites.
They need to move some of their campuses oop north, to Tyneside or further. They’re an international brand. No harm.
Moving all this infrastructure out of London, the planners could devise ways to design private cars out of the system.
You get made redundant? I don’t understand what I am supposed to be answering? Is this now or in 20 years? makes a big difference to the answer and what about your wife and kids. context? Whats the issue and the question?
The issue is that in your proposed sustainable world. Times change. Things happen that are out of your control - the fact that you of all people believe your fully the master of your own destiny is unbelievable. Your dismissal of such issues arising is another feather in the cap of the arguement that you keep shouting while being out of touch with the reality facing the workforce today.
Just ban private cars from town/ city centres.
Finally something simple that can be done and achieved almost over night. It has been done and proven to work well in Holland and Belgium amongst other places.
But of course where do you draw the line. Where is termed the centre.
Communism. We're on our way...
molgrips
Dumb argument. If you would ban them from buying pyjamas yearly they might ban you for buying bike bits yearly.
Finally something simple that can be done and achieved almost over night. It has been done and proven to work well in Holland and Belgium amongst other places.
But of course where do you draw the line. Where is termed the centre.
It's pretty much been done in Sheffield. So everybody shops in Meadowhall, an out of town shopping centre (with plenty of free parking). City centres are becoming full of blocks of expensive identikit flats inhabited by students and owned by overseas investors. Which I guess is efficient.
Ban imports. They only buy this shite because it’s there. Would help out quality british brands too. HebPyjCo?
But then poor people who need normal clothes will struggle. 150 years ago people only owned two sets of clothes - Sunday best and one set of clothes for the rest of the week. Do you want to go back to that? Should we?
molgrips
Dumb argument. If you would ban them from buying pyjamas yearly they might ban you for buying bike bits yearly.
I'm not making an argument, dumb or otherwise. I'm exploring the issues. And yes, if you ban pyjamas then where do you stop? Bike gear?
But then poor people who need normal clothes will struggle. 150 years ago people only owned two sets of clothes – Sunday best and one set of clothes for the rest of the week. Do you want to go back to that? Should we?
You mean go back to quality over quantity? Yeah definitely. Surely a hard-wearing set of quality clothes will cost the same as thirty Primarni junk costumes.
I've jumped 10 pages so probably missed stuff.
1. Road charging. Pay per mile, and increase the charge at peak times. It works in Singapore. The tags also pay for parking.
2. Vehicle license charge. It works in Singapore. There are still loads of cars, but a 5 year tag cost about SGD80k.
3. Public transport - trains, buses, Very Light Rail, trams etc. Joined up for distance, last 5 and last mile.
4. Not having children. The best one. However, I'm currently doing a load of work regarding aging populations. Actually I'm speaking at a conference in Singapore about it on Monday. It's a really big deal that we're properly ignoring currently.
5. Insulate buildings. But considering what those buildings are rather than just applying a one size methodology.
6. Encourage cycling.
7. Encourage vegetarianism.
8. Educate the populace.
9. Shoot everyone employed in The City - the home of short termism and value extraction.
10. Enjoy the slower life.
Oh, there's so much...
so probably missed stuff.
not really. Just the usual gulf in understanding and unwillingness to accept
Surely a hard-wearing set of quality clothes will cost the same as thirty Primarni junk costumes.
But you have to be able to buy the expensive stuff in the first place in order for it to last longer. So we need to eradicate poverty too. Tricky when you're looking at massively shrinking the economy.
Needs doing, but it's very hard.
Vimes boots isn't it.
Infact this whole threads a bit vimes boots.
The haves preach the have nots explain why they can't.
Others empathise with the have nots more than the haves.
its a good idea but unfortunately not one that can be applied to this building.
based on your points on this thread then you should be moving to a building that is much better for the environment rather than just shrugging your shoulders and saying it’s too difficult.
Very much so trail rat. its the poor worldwide that will suffer first and most from global warming but this thread shows very much how the privileged folk in the west will not compromise their lifestyles to reduce the coming catastrophe.
chismac. Actually my bits of the building are highly insulated to the point they hardly need any heating. Its simply not possible - not too hard but not possible to put either PV panels or a heating unit for the building. I have taken what steps I can actually do at a cost of many thousands which I will never see back
Very much so trail rat. its the poor worldwide that will suffer first and most from global warming but this thread shows very much how the privileged folk in the west will not compromise their lifestyles to reduce the coming catastrophe.
Quite. Yourself included.
Its simply not possible – not too hard but not possible to put either PV panels or a heating unit for the building.
Hasn't it got a roof?
very little south facing roof that is not unshaded. maybe enough room for 3 panels?
Quite. Yourself included.
Ive compromised far more than most but yes - if everyone on the planet had my lifestyle it would still be unsustainable even tho my carbon footprint is low for the west
South isn't mandatory.
East west is fine and in many cases can be better due to the power spread across the day
I'm not sure they have sun up there.
I’m not sure they have sun up there
In doom land ?
He's 140miles south of me. I see more sun over the year than Chester apparently.
Why aren't car roofs made of solar panels?
none of the sloping roof will take anything much in the way of panels. they are full of skylights chimney stacks and protruding masonry.
don't think I haven't looked into it. Installation would also be very difficult even if it were possible. Listed building, conservation area, very little uninterrupted sloping roof.
Sounds like your just not willing to make the change.....
That's exactly how you sound to the others here.
Why can't farmers put solar panel grids or wind turbines on grazing land?
I’m not sure they have sun up there.
Edinburgh is actually one of the sunniest places in the UK. I think only kent gets more hours of sunshine a year
Id love solar panels. I've looked into it and an installation on my roof is simply not feasible. Ive even looked into getting my own wind turbine. Can't do that either
Ive spent many thousands improving the thermal efficiency. MOney that I will never get back
Edinburgh is actually one of the sunniest places in the UK. I think only kent gets more hours of sunshine a year
Is that right? Well you live and learn. I've only spent one afternoon in Edinburgh and it was indeed sunny. Whereas I've spent a fair amount of time in Glasgow which was always rainy. I wonder if it's similar to the fact that it's generally rainy in Manchester, but nicer over the hill in Sheffield? An east/west thing perhaps, hence Kent being sunny...
Anyway, if it's so sunny stop making excuses and get some solar panels on your roof you planet-killer...
I would if I could.
Id love solar panels. I’ve looked into it and an installation on my roof is simply not feasible.
it’s not feasible for many to live close to work, yet you suggest this is all their fault and they should make it feasible and make the changes necessary. Surely you want to uphold the standards you expect of others?
I did not suggest any blame for anyone. there is a difference between not wanting to do something because of the compromises to your lifestyle and it being physically impossible
with that I have had enough of this thread. the personal attacks made on me for things I have never said and because I point out hypocrisy is quite honestly nasty.
You cannot dispute the message so you shoot the messenger
You get made redundant? I don’t understand what I am supposed to be answering? Is this now or in 20 years? makes a big difference to the answer and what about your wife and kids. context? Whats the issue and the question?
Well the issue is that I am the master of my own destiny in your world. Except I probably wasn't planning on being made redundant from a job that paid well. Now I have to find alternative employment which there isn't in the local area.
So do I
A) commute
B) force my wife to quit her job and follow me (as the main breadwinner then of course its me who should be followed). We incur the costs of moving, remortgaging, possibly increased costs of housing. Plus the social costs of moving away from friends and social groups. Plus the disruption to my daughter from moving to a different school with no friends.
Can you tell I may have put some thought into this? Can you possibly guess why? Can you understand why I'm getting so pissed off by your constant "master of my own destiny" nonsense whilst simultaneously blaming me for having the sheer ineptitude of having a job that turned out to not be as guaranteed as I believed it to be? For the sheer audacity of being born 20 years late so I couldn't even contemplate owning one city centre property never mind two?
You are incredibly lucky and privileged but utterly blind as to just how much. If I could live within farting distance of a job in the middle of a city with absolutely fantastic public transport I would. But the reality is even as a professional I'd still be out in the commuter belt unless I wanted to either be mortgaged to the hilt in a rabbit hutch flat or else slumming it in some shithole like Pilton or Sighthill. That's the reality right now. This is the result of the years of social engineering since comprehensive development and the post-war slum clearances coupled with the Thatcherite housing boom. People don't want to live in places like Cumbernauld. People don't want 2 hour commutes. But they are forced into these situations by circumstances utterly outwith their control. Some got lucky, others not so much.
You summed it up perfectly with this;
Just the usual gulf in understanding and unwillingness to accept
Such a shame half of what you claim I have said I never have
I have had enough. Bye
Develop the UKs recycling infrastructure in terms of capacity and ability, rather than shipping it to the other side of the planet to end up in landfill
Such a shame half of what you claim I have said I never have
The only thing in his posts he claims you said is directly quoted in the quote bar.
The rest of it is fact about modern life for a young couple with children living in the modern world - and solid hard factual reasons why what you say is as impossible as you claim putting solar panels on your roof is. Not impossible just not convienant /cost effective or efficient - it's a good analogy to how easy it is to just live where the work is for the whole family.
14 pages of someone who worked for the UK's largest employer lecturing us that we're not living close enough to our employers
Squirrelking - you have a PM
I didn't say "master of your own destiny". I didn't blame anyone for anything and I do understand the pressures far more than folk here seem to believe. I am not blind to my priviledge. I didn't lecture anyone. I stated a case and argued it.
The tone here towards me has been so frankly unpleasant and the personal insults directed at me extremely nasty.
Squirrelking outlined the choices he has - commute or move - thats a choice and commuting always is a result of choices made
Once more there has been a pile on and its frankly vile. the reaction has been one of shoot the messanger because you don't like the message
Squirrelking outlined the choices he has – commute or move –
Only in your mind. He did not say that.
He can compute or move and force his wife to get a new job and his kids to change school . Very different to your interpretation
It's not a pile on. It's trying to get you to accept that the world is different to the one you grew up in so people DO NOT have the choice you were privaledge to. No matter how many times you keep "messengering it"
I give in an will not contribute further
Two days and eight pages back, yet still you’re here posting on this thread TJ.
Your blinkered vision of everything seems to habitually drag threads like this down. People want a discussion, they don’t want a lecture from you every time.
I understand what TJ is trying to get across and Chevychase too. I also wholeheartedly agree with their detractors. It’s not always choice that puts you where you are in life. Luck or lack thereof and circumstances also play a large part. As do upbringing, opportunity and a shed tonne of other variables. You simply can’t make assumptions about the circumstances and ability of others to take the same path you have in life.
We can still do something about climate change. Two degrees is pretty much a given at this point and that is ****ing terrible. It doesn’t mean we should stop trying to stop world averages going up further though. Frankly the worst attitudes on here are coming from those who claim to know better. On the other hand you have the likes of molgrips and squirrelking trying to have a reasoned debate about it.
You can tell this place is populated by older people in the main. Misanthropy and well I’ve done my bit so **** the rest are the main themes
Your blinkered vision of everything
Wanting to avoid the collapse of civilisation. *Blinkered* 😂
All you lot are doing is the classic bullying of anyone who speaks the truth on this issue because it makes you uncomfortable. TJ is completely right. The fact that you lot haven't yet understood the enormity of the problem that faces us is your problem not his.
We can still do something about climate change.
Yes we can. At the risk of repeating myself...
All you lot are doing is the classic bullying of anyone who speaks the truth on this issue because it makes you uncomfortable. TJ is completely right.
No, you misunderstand. We understand the enormity of it. But we don't want to just sit here and doom-monger about it. We want something done, but we're interested in WHAT that would be.
If I say "you can't just stop buying stuff" TJ seems to think I'm saying "it's not acceptable to compromise my lifestyle". But that's not what I mean. I mean that if we all stopped buying stuff overnight the global economy would collapse and cause huge problems. So we need a better solution than simply stopping buying things. We're part of a massively complex inter-dependent system, economically AND environmentally.
the reaction has been one of shoot the messanger because you don’t like the message
No. We are all onside with the message. We're trying to explain and you're mis-understanding whilst refusing to be told that you're misunderstanding.
Absolutely TJ is right but how de we get to a point where the majority of people can live as he does? What advice can he give to others that is realistic and achievable relatively quickly? I’d genuinely like to hear that from him. Same with chevychase, other than drastic reduction in world population, which isn’t a short term thing, what other tangible advice can he offer to limit global warming and for individuals to reduce the their footprint to circa 5t.
So far all I’ve read from the former is it’s all choice and the latter **** all human scum!
Edit - Molgrips put it much more eloquently above. Yes, we’re screwed to a degree, how do we stop a further slide in to oblivion? If we need to reset how the world economy works, what does that look like and how do we get there? It’s a complex subject but it absolutely needs to be discussed.
But we don’t want to just sit here and doom-monger about it.
True but that's all I hear from those arguing against TJ. "We can't stop flying", "We can't drive less", "We can't eat less meat", "We can't consume less", "We can't stop doing what the hell we like". I've hilighted above that in many cases we already do things that we might not like for very good reasons. We need to start applying that to the issues around climate change, and we need to do it without pointing fingers, blaming others or picking holes in the behaviour of people like TJ (and myself) who are trying to be honest about what is required.
What advice can he give to others that is realistic and achievable relatively quickly?
As I said earlier - no-one wants to commute. We cannot all live near a place of work because there simply isn't the space near enough workplaces.
My suggestion would be to lean into the WFH revolution. This is a huge opportunity to slash emissions and this is a major area where governments are failing.
+1 to the rest of funkmasterp's post too.
what other tangible advice can he offer to limit global warming and for individuals to reduce the their footprint to circa 5t.
See the video I posted above. Change to a plant based diet and stop flying. Those are the two easy practical things you can do that will have a measurable impact. The rest is all 'micro-consumerist bollocks' as Monbiot calls it.
True but that’s all I hear from those arguing against TJ. “We can’t stop flying”, “We can’t drive less”, “We can’t eat less meat”, “We can’t consume less”, “We can’t stop doing what the hell we like”.
I’ve not read that on this thread. I’ve seen “how do we get people to fly less” and “taking current infrastructure in to account how do we drive less” anybody that isn’t actively cutting down meat consumption or stopping buying tat is a huge part of the issue and I’d like to hear why they aren’t so I can try and convince them otherwise.
True but that’s all I hear from those arguing against TJ. “We can’t stop flying”, “We can’t drive less”, “We can’t eat less meat”, “We can’t consume less”, “We can’t stop doing what the hell we like”.
We can do all those things. But there are limits.
We can drive less for discretionary trips, but some of us are forced by circumstances out of our control to drive a certain amount to put roofs over our heads.
We can consume less, but if we all consume 10% of what we do now (the kind of numbers that I suspect are required) then our global economy will crash and that will itself cause issues because we cannot invest in environmental protection without money. So this needs to be a managed process, not simple prohibition.
Do you see what I am trying to say?
See the video I posted above. Change to a plant based diet and stop flying. Those are the two easy practical things you can do that will have a measurable impact.
I’ve flown twice in the last twenty years and rarely eat meat (just chicken or pig when I do), but how do we convince others to follow suit? How do we do this in a managed way without destroying the livelihoods of farmers the world over. What does the transition from livestock to plant crop look like? The majority of the main contributors on this thread are on the same page so why are we arguing? What can we do to help others and drive change in them?
but how do we convince others to follow suit?
I posted ideas above. People are not going to give up these things voluntarily. They have to be coerced to do so by regulation and incentivisation. Ultimately we need to ration air miles/meat eating/driving. Start from the top down so the richest have to makes sacrifices first. Phase it in over a decade or more. So on flying as a specific example..
Year 1: Ban private jets
Year 2: Bring in air miles rationing for the top 1%
Year 3: Expand it to the top 5%
etc until..
Year 10: Rationing for everyone
Also reward people for not flying at all. If they don't use their airmiles give them a reward of say £500, or reduce the amount of tax they pay by 1%.