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I’d love to see road trains where a series of trucks can link up wirelessly, all being controlled via the front driver. With no “thinking distance” they can tailgate each other and drastically cut fuel consumption.
If you removed the rubber tyres and put some rails down (much less rolling resistance), you could actually link the trucks up directly and just have one engine at the front, thus saving even more fuel.
Instead of it being a road train, as it's running on rails, you could maybe call it a railway train.
Novel idea, maybe I'll suggest that - I reckon it could catch on. In fact, as well as some of the trains carrying freight, you could maybe make some carriages with seats and tables and things in order to carry many many car passengers at once!
1,270,000,000 kWh used from boiling kettles each year in the UK. That’s pretty much enough to power every single street light in the UK for a year.
1. Where did you get those numbers from?
2. The major thing with a kettle is that you have to heat water to boiling point. You can't reduce the amount of energy needed to boil water, it's a physical constant. Boiling only as much water as you need will make a huge difference, insulating a kettle only a small difference. All the electric kettles I've used in the last 20 years are plastic anyway, so they are safe to touch with your hand. That means that they are pretty well insulated. Very little to be gained there.
I know the focus is always on population control at the start of the process, but I reckon it makes more sense to trim it down at the far end, once people have served their usefulness. In an ageing population old people are a massive drain on resources.
I mean, sure it's a massive ethical problem, but just as valid as targeting parents with more than one kid.
autonomous vehicles.
The lead researcher at Honda has suggested that the search for autonomous vehicles is in fact the search for functioning AI. I don't think that meets the criteria for "simple"
I know the focus is always on population control
There's many population scientists who think that the rate of global population increase will decline in the near future and the population naturally shrink anyway. In fact the huge expansion of the 20th C has already stopped We already produce enough food for everyone, I think population control is not the most pressing concern
Where did you get those numbers from?
2. The major thing with a kettle is that you have to heat water to boiling point.Quick Google search and you don’t have to boil the water.
yes they are. They made a choice to live where they did and to take that job.
I happen to work reasonably local as does my missus currently, but I'm afraid local 'choice' of employment isn't as straight forward as you make out.
Employee's personal circumstances and employing organisation's reasons for where they locate themselves seldom align perfectly. Someone's personal circumstances may have 'trapped' them in a specific location where there isn't work, the ability to just pick up and relocate closer to some work is limited by income/savings... what do you do then? People are very much slaves to circumstance not the other way round.
If you want to abolish commuting you're about 70 years too late...
There are very few jobs for life anymore and if you find your employment changing frequently, causing you to have to relocate frequently that sort of knackers opportunities to put down roots or establish somewhere as your home, rather than become some sort of pay-cheque nomad...
Autonomous lanes on motorways are the easiest obvious “half way house” but currently there’s a supply/demand issue where there’s no point building it cos the tech isn’t really there yet.
Or, hear me out on this, some sort of large vehicle able to take lots of passengers along a set route that drops them in locations close to where they might want to be. If you have concerns about the operator's ability to steer you could put them on rails of some sort...
What am I saying? Crazy talk! We should all be spending 10's of thousands on private vehicles...
If you have concerns about the operator’s ability to steer you could put them on rails of some sort…
@cookeaa - see my following post, top of this page... 😉
Stop producing goods that simply are not needed.
To do this, a shift in culture is required which means hefty educational input over a reasonable period of time.
If big pharma production is so polluting, we need to get to the root cause of why we are needing to manufacture so many different products in such vast quantities. Is it because people are generally more unwell or becoming more reliant on drugs to help them?
Then let's find a way to help prevent people being ill more often. Better diet? More active lifestyle? Reduced pollution?
Needs a shift in culture.
We're too reliant on using cars these days, myself included. I'd love to be able to walk/cycle to work, but the job I'm in pays reasonably well and I won't get that kind of job in my hometown or the next. We can't move closer to my job because my children will then be further away from me, I'd end up using the car more. But over a number of years, educating people to reduce usage, changing stance on employment pay rates so that we don't have to go to specific areas to earn extra. Is that a possibility?
I was talking with Mrs Fezza the other day about reducing our use of plastic packaging. Occurred to me during shopping where 90% of everything we buy has some form of plastic packaging. Why is this? Ultimately it is convenient and cheaper. So we need to change the way we think about the need to have everything so convenient. More shops that offer decent food that can be deposited into containers brought in by the consumer. Generally these types of shops are more expensive at the moment. Culture change needed.
Drinks containers, we were in Sheffield Friday and Manchester Saturday. I had thought about taking a refillable bottle to top up with water. But I had absolutely no idea where or how this could be done. Change of culture so people can go somewhere to have water/fizzy drinks/pop available on tap instead of buying a new bottle every time. We can do this with coffee why not other drinks, I don't want coffee/tea most of the time.
I mean - we could just stop subsidising fossil fuel use as a basic start?
Good call squirrelking! We need to build a galactic empire and then kill all the horses
If we all stopped drinking hot drinks it would save a load of energy.
Stop building big, glass boxes for people to sit in. Windows are the weak link in building design, they let the heat out in winter and overheat buildings in summer, meaning aircon use. Restrict window/wall ratios on new builds (especially office blocks) with mandatory high efficiency glazing, and subsidise triple glazing upgrades for existing buildings. You could wrap your house in 3ft of insulation, but if the windows are crap it'll make no difference.
We all wear insulated onesies and leave the heating to 16C.
Label all your electrical equipment/appliances with big labels with its load rating in Watts.
Another kettle one. Only boil the amount you need, it's amazing that some folk fill the kettle everytime they use it.
No baths allowed! Unless you go old school and share the water. Bagsy first!
Turn off all the lights. Everyone is to go about like they're out of Metal Gear Solid. Night vision goggles will be all the rage with the youth.
This one is for my neighbours..... Walk the 200 metres to Tesco to buy your morning paper.
Ban company fuel cards. I fuel cards encourage folk to drive as they've been taxed.
Hibernation! Who wouldn't want to snooze for 3 months.
But if you want more than one kid, you’re part of the problem. Too many humans for our desired consumption is the ultimate cause of most of our issues. We need a few billion at absolute most – and we’re heading rapidly towards 9 billion – which is way more than the earth can ever support sustainably.
Have less kids. Stop making it easy for people who want more than 1.
Exactly. If you have more than one kid you should pay extra tax.
If there were less people we wouldn't have to build crap houses on arable land then have to import food.
Put doors on supermarket fridges 🤷♂️
Everyone eat insects instead burgers 🤢
How about not flying in lamb from the other side of the 🌎
How about not having everything made in the far east. How about make stuff in the near east?
If you want every couple to have one kid you better get used to one of two things:
1. Massive immigration of people willing to look after you when your old.
2. Get used to metal Micky wiping your frail arse.
You do realise that the TV programme Distopia wasn't real?
If you want every couple to have one kid you better get used to one of two things:
1. Massive immigration of people willing to look after you when your old.
If you can't look after yourself, time for the heroin + cliff solution.
It *has* to be less children - because it's lifetime consumption that's the problem. Offing oldies who subsist on salmon paste butties and shortbread isn't saving anything.
Maybe anyone who gives birth to a second child should have their first child shot in the face next to the birth bed?
Simple and fair. Thanos would approve.
Only one personal flight per year unless it’s to see family. After that, you pay full fuel duty on the fuel used for your seat on the plane.
On a thread with many idiotic suggestions, this one is right up there 😂
Hibernation
OMFG, there it is folks. I'm starting now
Ban Tories.
Hibernation
OMFG, there it is folks. I’m starting now
have to eat loads first though.
It *has* to be less children – because it’s lifetime consumption that’s the problem. Offing oldies who subsist on salmon paste butties and shortbread isn’t saving anything.
From a lot of the threads on here I’m deducing that it’s middle aged white men that consume the most. We need a cull of middle aged, middle class, male IT professionals.
Do you think it’s everyone else’s job to support you refusing to work because it involves a bus ride?
Unless I’m mistaken you don’t have a partner either but you’d presumably leave a lifelong partner who lost their job and only had an option of working in another place and split the kids if you had them?
Actually I did have a life long partner who died. We both changed job many times. Both kept within a few miles of home. what we did was only apply for and accept posts where public transport or bikes were the option to get there.
Commuting is always as a result of choices you have made
I’m with TJ on this one. I’d never take a job that involved a long commute. I simply value my free time too much to spend it stuck in traffic.
Cancel Christmas and all the associated plastic tat.
Humbug.
Council tax based on a percentage of the current property value, with no maximum limit. That should help free up all the family homes full of silver tops. Who bought them for double their salaries back when good old Maggie was bashing the Argies.
I'll now add a smiley face 🙃 to...
A. Lift the mood around here (there's some serious grumps on here today/tonight)
B. Show that I'm only joshing.
As the double side of my 'boomer max hoosing tax' policy.
I'd give out tax breaks to people buying into luxury sheltered accomodation. Run like a non profit co-op organisation. With 24 hour bingo, Horlicks on tap, nightly sing songs and gin/whisky tasting sessions.
Commuting is always as a result of choices you have made
Correct - we chose to be somewhere which is equidistant from a number of different work options - It's not demonstrably close to any of them. My wife has now worked at 3 of them and her commute distance doesn't really vary. Had we bought close to our/her first job, she'd now be looking at commuting a much larger distance. Which is the right choice @tjagain?
The only way your way works is to have non-specialist skills or to be renting in perpetuity. Some skills are only applicable in certain circumstances and moving isn't always an option.
My work is 18-20 miles away dependent on route - does that make me a bad person?
The only way your way works is to have non-specialist skills or to be renting in perpetuity. Some skills are only applicable in certain circumstances and moving isn’t always an option.
Both Mrs TJ and I had specialist skills tho mine are widely used and bought property
Its always someone else who has to make the lifestyle changes isn't it?
Without major lifestyle changes the world will be largely uninhabitable within your childrens lifetimes
Some skills are only applicable in certain circumstances
Again - a choice you have made
Being fortunate enough to be born in a time when housing near a job ( remember not every one has the choice of what job they take and it's NOT their choice ) was manageable on the given wage for that job.
A large amount of your choice is actually based on luck and circumstance rather than direct things you have done. Things that no matter what you as an individual have done has influenced in anyway.
And circumstances change again for reasons out of your control.
Its always someone else who has to make the lifestyle changes isn’t it?
Quite.
I don't suppose, in your retirement, you're going to give up your homes so someone with similar earnings can be as close to their work as you were can buy it at a similar price to what you paid?
No? Thought as much.
I often notice that there is a lot more cars on the roads when it's raining.
Do people really have a second car spare just for when it's raining?
How do they normally get to work?
And does commuting to work by car (albeit a leccy one) make me a bad man?
Again – a choice you have made
@tjagain - The choice I made (and it was a conscious one) to develop the skills I have, will have saved over 4.5bn litres of fuel being burned over the last 5 and next 15 years...That total will increase.
Its always someone else who has to make the lifestyle changes isn’t it?
Well, let's see, I've only driven to work around 8 times in the last 5 yearsc, all of those due to injury. Our house is now almost completely solar powered, our car journeys are electric and again solar powered, we've removed 80% of the meat from our diet without substituting crap, my second car is 20 years old and has been maintained (like everything else) by me to not have it go to scrap/landfil and we recycle so much that our waste could be collected every 2 months and we'd still not fill a bin.
You seem to be doing the same thing you always have and it just happens to fit the current social trend and you're happy to preach about it, how good you are and how bad others seem to be, but you have only a teeny tiny glimpse of what other people are doing and are happy to judge. I seem to recall that you worked for the Health Service with skills that were applicable at more than a single hospital/location? I seem to recall that you refused to take a job that was...was it 5 miles rather than 2 miles from your home as it was inconvenient for you? Perhaps i'm misremembering.
As for people advocating carbon taxing children and those who have more than 1 - that's just silly and shortsighted. They're far more likely to make a positive impact on climate change than you are. And as for population growth - birthrate in the UK is down to 1.59. Without immigration, the population would already be shrinking. Also, once they're born, they're a person, and thus have their own available carbon credit.
Servers consume far more power than personal workstations. Mine with monitor is 130W. Our small pair of servers is 4-5kW when not under load. Triple or quadruple that for max load.
Lol a server that idles at 4-5kw is not in any way a small server!
For example our development VM host is a dl380 g10 (hpe's mid range 2U rack mount server) with 32 cores and 512gb of memory, it idles at around 200w.
All school children to walk to school, make dropping them off in a car as anti social as drink driving.
A flat rate of tax for all PAYE or self employed maybe 2 bands but no loop holes at all. Savings at HMRC will be funded by less complicated tax affairs should make enforcement easier and fairer.
Deposit scheme on plastic bottles huge taxes on bottled water as the only product it waste.
Insulation was carried out for the elderly for free by the WarmFront scheme under the last labour government, scheme disbanded in 2012.
I don't get your arguement Daffy. I have always tried to live a sustainable lifestyle. If you have as well then good. Part of the reason I worked in healthcare was easy availability of work and I didn't refuse the move - I wanted folks opinions on it.
There is also no judgement in my post at all - no value statements. Thats your interpretation and its 5totally bogus
None of what you say alters the fact that commuting is always a choice or if you prefer a result of choices you have made
birthrate in the UK is down to 1.59. Without immigration, the population would already be shrinking.
Sorry, I though we were talking about world society, not just the UK.
They’re far more likely to make a positive impact on climate change than you are.
& at what age does this bit commence?
If you look at 'success' in life in a purely biological way then if you don't pass your genetic material on, then what is the point?
If you've chosen to not have children and do not assist (this could be purely monetary) in other people's childrens development, care or education then that could be seen as quite a selfish act. Sucking up resources (and family homes) that the future generations need.
Obviously I'd not think that, as you'd need to be pretty callous to wish ill on other people for their choices in life.
going to give up your homes so someone with similar earnings can be as close to their work as you were can buy it at a similar price to what you paid?
No? Thought as much.
Actually i am likely to move and let the flats at below market rent. Edinburgh desperately needs good affordable rentals. I forgone a lot of money to let below market rents
+1 for population cull! There's no way I'm letting other peoples kids existence deprive me of my Patio Heater!
Ban physical marketing/advertising rubbish posted through our letterboxes.
In fact, ban the digital version too.
Last time I bought something directly as a result of an advert? The 33rd of Never.
Stop consuming animal products.
Time and time again it is shown that the most polluting plant-based products are still significantly less polluting than the least polluting animal products.
Every single person on this forum could make the switch tomorrow with less effort, cost or disruption than almost any other suggestion made.
Bet you won't though, will you..?
None of what you say alters the fact that commuting is always a choice or if you prefer a result of choices you have made
It's Hobson's choice. I could (hypothetically) commute from here to an interesting, challenging and lucrative job that contributes to the economy; or I could walk to work in Asda or Costa. Of course I could move but someone's got to live in this house and not everyone in the neighborhood can work at Asda.
Don't over-simplify things. It's really unhelpful. You're essentially denying there is a structural problem, by blaming the victims. This is why people think you are making value judgements.
None of what you say alters the fact that commuting is always a choice or if you prefer a result of choices you have made
And absolutely nothing that you have said makes any sense to 90+ percent of the population. For most people it's not a choice where to buy/rent, it's a calculation based on (often) complex circumstances of employment stability, affordability, proximity to things/people (or the opposite), size and many other requirements. Very few people get to say, without any constraints, "I'm going to live there" and can make it happen. You're applying your circumstances to everyone else.
No I am not.
it’s a calculation based on (often) complex circumstances of employment stability, affordability, proximity to things/people (or the opposite), size and many other requirements.
in other words choices made. all those things are choices> No one puts a gun to your head to make you comutte
Don’t over-simplify things. It’s really unhelpful. You’re essentially denying there is a structural problem, by blaming the victims. This is why people think you are making value judgements.
Where do I blame victims? There is not a single judgemental word in my posts. How about not transferring your thoughts onto what I say.
Its a simple fact that comutting is a choice, that without major changes in lifestyles the planet will become uninhabitable and that people are unwilling to make those changes
Very few people get to say, without any constraints, “I’m going to live there” and can make it happen. You’re applying your circumstances to everyone else.
I applied for work, accepted a job then got a flat within bicycle commute distance. Job first then flat
It always amuses me that these discussions always end up with personal attacks on me for pointing out the obvious truths
Put water for the morning brew in the kettle before heading to bed. Heating it from room temperature, not ground temperature is an easy win.
Refill kettle to at least the minimum line after pouring out just boiled water.
You read my mind...
Would be interesting to run the numbers on just these last two actions to see the energy savings. Here's hoping for a slow day at work tomorrow.
I applied for work, accepted a job then got a flat within bicycle commute distance. Job first then flat
Not an attack just looking for an answer on a question you shirk every time I ask it.
Had you got the same job* today. At the starting wage.
Where would you have been living ?
* Same location
these discussions always end up with personal attacks on me
Have you ever stopped to think why that may be?
it’s a calculation based on (often) complex circumstances of employment stability, affordability, proximity to things/people (or the opposite), size and many other requirements.
in other words choices made. all those things are choices
Ah, so I chose that this was the best house I could afford. If only I'd chosen to magic another £300k out of nowhere I could have made a better choice of house, simples.
Or if that wasn't possible maybe I could have chosen to buy 30yrs ago when it was much, much cheaper, despite not knowing where I'd need to live after I'd left university. And secondary school. And primary school.
Instead I've merely choosen what I can afford to live in when I needed to live in it, madness.
I'm only 20 odd miles south of TJ, I like it very much here.
Just done a quick Google to see what I could have bought near him in Edinburgh for up to what I paid for my nice 2 bed Victorian flat with a little garden, peaceful location and lovely views.
To my surprise there were 7 properties come on Rightmove. Then I realised that 4 of them were garages and the other 3 were parking spaces🤣 Choices, choices. I could buy a garage near to public transport links, more employment opportunities and city-centre crime rates or...
Had you got the same job* today. At the starting wage.
Where would you have been living ?
* Same location
Its an unanswerable question
I wouldn't have taken the job probably. Edinburgh being very expensive nowadays. Gorgie / Dalry perhaps. I checked =- there are properties I could buy under those unrealistic conditions
Ah, so I chose that this was the best house I could afford.
or as I have done bought a small flat in an unfashionable part of the city so as not to have an unsustainable comutte
Have you ever stopped to think why that may be?
Oh I'm pretty sure. Its shooting the messenger. You cannot refute the validity of my point so because you do not like the conclusions it leads you to you shoot the messenger.
I have made compromises for my sort of sustainable lifestyle. Compromises like living in a flat in a city. Id have loved a garden and a shed. But I could not afford one while living withing cycling distance of work
this is the point. there are no technological solutions. the only solution is massive lifestyle change by us all which includes not commuting amongst other major things. People are not will to do this so the future of humans on this planet is doomed.
This thread is bonkers.... seems to be populated by people who want to brag about the itchyness of their hair shirt, or people who are (I think) wanting to insulate their kettles for some reason?.
If you are talking about the UK:
Supporting a UK industry to design/make insulating and heating solutions that work for UK housing stock.
WFH has to be the default where it is technically possible - This is the answer to so many issues in the UK. Nobody who works at a computer should be driving to an office in order to do so.
Re-nationalize climate-critical industries, so that we are not relying on capitalism to solve the problem that they are the architects of.
Most importantly - stop voting for bastards. Re-claim politics from the lobbyists and donors, and start governing the country for the people that actually live in it.
Most of that could be done within a couple of government terms
Independent accounting in government expenditure.
buy under those unrealistic conditions
And we get to the nub. It's not unrealistic it's reality for hundreds of thousands of people and getting worseby the day
Your living in the past trying to apply what worked 20-30 years ago to today.
If every one did the same .as per your massive change ..... There would be no staff available to cover shifts as they would all be priced out of being in public transport/muscle power of work. .
That's before we get to the cleaners the food servince industry the supermarkets ...... Are they able to make the same choice.
When I was ,21 I thought like you. Then I grew up and lived saw places met people in the world did some reading saw how the world works and why ideology such as the concept of free choice is an illusion your picking between a set of dealt hands set by others. Hard work,( education/CPD improves the cards availible but your still not in full control of the choices.
Any one of us could have been born in Ethiopia with a limb missing. - would you have the choice them ? What about blind in Peru ? Hhat about fully able in 1980 Cuba. All perfectly legitimate existences.
Fwiw
Thinking about it , it was something JoJo said regarding people choosing to sit in traffic that triggered me to look at the bigger picture over the years.
But anyway. Off to cycle to work as it's one of my prescribed days to cycle the 9 miles. (Which despite not changing jobs has moved from one side of the city to the other and back again over the last 15 years)
only get new big stuff on birthdays and christmas.
This thread started out really interesting, then when the usual suspects arrived it was quickly ruined. I wonder if said usual suspects realise or care how much this constant behaviour annoys and drives other people away from this forum.
TJ is absolutely right about reducing or removing the need to commute. Sadly it isn't always that simple. My case being that I would have to drastically reduce my pay to be able to sustainably commute by foot/bike. And my choice is to not do that as it will negatively impact my life and more importantly the children's lives.
Similarly I can't move closer to my job without then being miles away from my kids. So it isn't that easy, the concept may be simple but reality is not.
Society has evolved to become dependent on cars and it needs to go full circle and get away from that dependence.
Your living in the past trying to apply what worked 20-30 years ago to today.
No I am not. This is the point. to make sufficient changes in order to even slow global warming will take huge lifestyle changes. Making personal attacks on me because you do not like the choices that leaves you with does not alter that.
Yes the UK property market is totally bonkers but I still would not take a job / house where I had to commute by car.
As per the post above this is stinking up the debate. Its not about me. Its about realising that lifestyles need to change and change dramatically or else the planet becomes virtually uninhabitable in your kids lifetimes
the idea that insulation or electric vehicles of similar will do everything needed without major lifestyle change is bogus.
Oh I’m pretty sure. Its shooting the messenger. You cannot refute the validity of my point
No, your point is bobbins, we've worn our fingers out demonstrating why, and you utterly refuse to consider anyone else's viewpoint. You're legendary for not understanding others' points of view - you've said yourself you don't understand other people - so the least you could do is actually try.
How can we all live near where we work? This is simply not geographically possible because there aren't enough houses near workplaces. And everyone hates commuting. We all do what we can to reduce it but sometimes the alternatives are worse.
My wife needed to change jobs. She didn't want to work at Asda so she now drives to a better job. Are you saying she should be working at Asda? What if Asda's not hiring?
Yes the UK property market is totally bonkers but I still would not take a job / house where I had to commute by car.
That would leave millions of people without jobs and millions of unfilled roles in companies, that would then collapse. You're an intelligent man at times TJ I can't understand why you are so incredibly dense on this subject.
Molgrips - because you are missing the point I am making. Its not me that is being dense. You fail to see the point I make here which is that without major lifestyle changes then we can do nothing about global warming. commuting is a large part of the lifestyle changes needed
I give in an will not contribute further
No one has refuted my point with anything other than - " I can't make the changes because I am not willing to change my lifestyle"
TBH, the major lifestyle change would be homelessness with the current state of the job/housing market.
Or maybe bankruptcy.
Or being born 60 years ago. It's not a personal attack it's a fact. Your ideological lifestyle is not widely achievable starting today.
That doesnt mean we shouldn't strive to make things better but the things that worked 30 years ago would mean destitution today due to the nature of modern society....
But it is something to work towards, is it not?
Whilst it might not be achievable here and now for some of us, maybe it is in 5/10 years. When my kids have grownup and if my career path changes from a highly technical role to a management role then I can and will look to work closer to home.
I accept it is my choice and I am not willing to either move from my current location or change jobs to anything I can get my hands on. It is my choice to keep my relatively well paid job and the commute associated with it. However, I fully plan to work towards not commuting by car in the future.
I know people, my other half included, that occasionally or even very often drive to work when they could very easily walk. That is down to convenience, which is were society has evolved to. So now we society needs to continue to evolve and make it easier for people to make more environmentally informed choices.
I'd also be terrified of riding a bike to work as I do not trust road users to care about my safety. So investment in infrastructure and education is vital to this ideology.
What is the average commuter distance?
Of those surveyed, 75% commute less than 10 miles to work, with 20% commuting between 5 and 10 miles to work each day.
Pre-pandemic, 3.58% of those surveyed commuted more than 40 miles to work, compared to 2.69% in 2022.
12% of commuters travel less than a mile to their place of work, compared to 10% pre-pandemic.
From here
So, to summarise, affordable housing is what's needed so people can leave near their work. Pleasant cities that have desirable attributes like green spaces, lack of traffic etc.
Your ideological lifestyle is not widely achievable starting today.
It is you know. You just have to be prepared to make compromises that many of you are unwilling to do. I would have loved a garden and a shed. Because I put a greater emphasis on a car free lifestyle than most that is one of the things I have forgone.
By February next year I'll have worked from home for 25yrs, even with 2 or 3 days a week requiring site visits out & about it is still a very isolating experience that could have unknown knock on effects in society and don't think it should be a model to base future working life on.