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Molgrips
Not necessarily, and I don’t think that kind of rhetoric is positive either. You can justify making a small negative impact to avoid a larger one later.
I understand the moral case, public opinion doesn't agree though.
What percentage (do you think) of these trying to use the M25 have suddenly had a damascene moment and ditched their ICE vehicle vs those who went completely the other way?
Is this thread about discussing solutions or about how shit I am?
So what is the solution Just Stop Oil are actually proposing? (that's rhetoric)
Most importantly though for public perception is a single and consistent message and sadly that is exactly what is being diluted. Look at this at a tangent .. I think you'd agree most of the UK would be financially better off not under a Tory government YET they keep voting for them?
Without digging into WHY deeply (there are lots of threads on that) but essentially
a) they are misled into a easy to believe if you want to non-reality.
b) many were put off by Corbyn's fundamentalist stance / media portrayal
There are obviously other reasons ... (I'm sure you have some)
the issues here are
a) they are being deliberately misled into Eco/Green = Climate change so if they put things in the recycling or if they buy some bamboo socks then they just did their bit. They don't need to care if the things they out in the recycling are actually recycled OR for that matter if recycling is less CO2 efficient than not. Many even believe the more recycling they generate the better.. and they are constantly bombarded by adverts for "eco" or "green" that they associate with "climate change" that actually make it worse but as far as they are concerned they did their bit.
b) we have historically lumped all the green and eco stuff together... had it not been for the green lobby we would already be using extensive nuclear to back up wind/tide/solar and the green lobby still can't admit this
You speak of crap government and I don't disagree... but frankly they have all made the same sort of effort as the remain lobby did. Right now Japan is building next gen high temp gas reactors that are intrinsically safe against a meltdown and run at temperatures that will create near endless hydrogen as a byproduct and power heat dependent heavy industry directly without requiring electrical conversion to melt iron ore. India is developing (expensive) breeder reactors to convert spent fuel into more energy... but somehow the green movement is less worried about climate change than using nuclear power and wants to argue if nuclear is truly renewable instead of looking at the amount of greenhouse gases produced.
Starmer faced (and to an extent still does face) a huge battle over the perception of Corbyn. Only the complete and utter clusterf££ck of Truss really made any short term differences and there are still people saying we are still going to benefit from Brexit and let's not go there and we need to wait until things are really really shit before we even consider rejoining the single market. (In other words its a long game)
We don't have a long game in climate change unless we radically address the short term.
I don’t think that kind of rhetoric is positive either.
I find the whole "no nuclear under any circumstances" and spreading misinformation is utterly not useful.
I find conflating "green" and "eco" with climate change is utterly unproductive.
Do your own research on the Japanese and Indian reactors... do your research as to why Japan can build a reactor in 3 years..
What can YOU do?
Personally....? Very little ... you are more open that the average UK voter but you know we can't all live like ChevyChase and you can't sell it and if you stop and think you'll realise to do anything useful climate wise by living like that we have to reduce the world population drastically over the next 5-10 years.
If you want to scale up and have finances (or think tank backers) how about starting a reuse business to get rid of the fake recycling? I'm sure you also remember the glass bottles delivered on EV's...
If you want to reduce HUGE chunks of CO2 then challenge your local council's "green initiatives"
Ask for a net carbon for EVERY project they claim is green or eco and call them out.
Local rag coverage here:
https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/woking-tower-block-13-storeys-23091283
And this is developed by "Eco World" - 37 stories of concrete and steel (knocking down a set of perfectly good low rise including the new fire station) and 141 Pages of the Environmental Statement (excluding appendices) don't mention CO2 once.
If you were involved preventing one such development that would probably be your entire lifetimes greenhouse emissions... though since they don't publish the figures that's simply a guess.
What can YOU do?
Personally….? Very little …
With a combination of solar PV and thermal and insulation I've been able to cut off the gas and reduce electricity to about the same as PV production - and that includes electricty for the car.
Minor changes in diet and consumer habits - more second hand and less tat.
Haven't flown for years.
Use the train and long distances busses for holidays.
Now if all those with their own homes did that the saving would be a few power stations.
Many even believe the more recycling they generate the better..
With a combination of solar PV and thermal and insulation I’ve been able to cut off the gas and reduce electricity to about the same as PV production – and that includes electricty for the car.
Minor changes in diet and consumer habits – more second hand and less tat.
Haven’t flown for years.
Use the train and long distances busses for holidays.
Now compare that to building a single 40 story skyscraper.... and plot your total carbon against the rest of the world
Now if all those with their own homes did that the saving would be a few power stations.
But they (the majority) won't unless they feel they have to and M. & Mme de Dum are chucking some stuff in the recycling and buying their bamboo t-shirt from China so as far as they are concerned "they are doing their bit".
Our council just put a green wall in... apparently they are "doing their bit". Shame they had to knock down a load of buildings then use millions of tons of concrete to put the green wall on. (Green wall on one side of one of the skyscrapers)
Very well said. My local council have just given the green business award to a company that has knocked down a 1960s shopping centre! The developer who was going to build a new one (INTU) went bust on the development so walked away. So now we have a flattened shopping centre with no idea what to do with the space or who will pay for whatever they do with the site and the company to knocked it down got a green business award!! Its bonkers.
chrismac
Very well said. My local council have just given the green business award to a company that has knocked down a 1960s shopping centre! The developer who was going to build a new one (INTU) went bust on the development so walked away. So now we have a flattened shopping centre with no idea what to do with the space or who will pay for whatever they do with the site and the company to knocked it down got a green business award!! Its bonkers.
Perfect example .... if you want to do something makes a real difference then stopping local councils doing needless and unwanted construction, especially CO2 intense concrete is going to make a much bigger difference.
We can try, but our options are very limited. The last time it was tried national government overruled the council and granted the permission anyway
Thats hardly a surprise. Its one of the many reasons I think the whole COP conferences are just a waste of carbon as nothing meaningful comes out of them that is going make any real difference. Yet 30,000 people have flown into Egypt to talk and lobby for their view
If it’s anything like last year, it all might be a waste of time:
Vs.
Props to the crew for braving the weather.
Maybe this suggests a way to harvest the hemp that grows on steep slopes:
If you don’t roll it!
chrismac
We can try, but our options are very limited. The last time it was tried national government overruled the council and granted the permission anyway
Exactly the same happened to us but this is ultimately because the (previous) council had no proper town plan to prevent this.
Basically they had done a "secret public consultation" best described in terms of Hitch Hikers Guide to the galaxy... and the entire set of planning documents was stuffed full of get-outs. The planning inspector was almost apologetic... and it's their job to pass any development that doesn't have sound and watertight case against.
Our planning committee didn't represent the executive (party wise) so the planning committee were pretty much responding to things the executive had been secretly encouraging.
As a background there was also a lot of threats and coercion... so people were being asked to support a development elsewhere under the threat of "or it will get put in your area".
Basically there were loads of "you can't do this unless" and the executive and non elected officers had been promoting the "unless" (and being paid to) and helping the developers get around the planning "rules" so when the planning inspector reviewed the refusal they were forced to side with the developers.
We won some and lost some .. the issue is the council want the BIGGEST projects because that is where their personal bank accounts see the benefit. We (local group) tirelessly exposed them.
As per the last council elections the ruling party lost EVERY SEAT that was open to contest that time around ... the CEO and leader of the council were forced to resign as a result of being exposed and to avoid criminal charges. The ex-CEO has just expanded his business sadly.. that is advising developers how to bypass planning ...
Now we are left with a few hangovers, a set of 37 story skyscrapers (ironically called the "eco development") and they knocked down a load of housing and retail to build a dual carriageway through the town centre... that now appears we can't rebuild so we have a bit of a wasteland ...
Either way I believe working to stop senseless development, especially CO2 intensive at a local level will eclipse anything you can personally do at home.
That's not saying don't make changes that you can but don't think they make a real difference so you "did your bit".
I took part in the Octopus Saving Session last week. Intention is to reduce peak grid demand and avoid having to start up another power station.
I saved 2kwh during the one hour period by turning most things except lights off.
Total saved compared to baseline values was 0.1Gwh for octopus customers, compared to a peak demand of 40Gwish, estimates are that 1Gw could be achieved nationwide.
Small beginning but an indication that demand side management can do something.
I also got paid £4.60 for being in top 10% of reductions, though having a heat pump to turn off for an hour helps.😀
Ovo have been doing something similar every day for the last month.
Power move.
Use less than 12.5% of your total power between 4-7pm on week days. You get 20 quid.
Low hanging fruit
Didn't really make any odds to us we don't generally put things on between 4-7 as a rule anyway other than cooking the tea.....and we ain't moving that with a toddler.