[Closed] Simon Reeve in Greece

"Ya, I shoot if you film!" 😯

That place is a dog mess ...

He's always great, isn't he? And very handsome too. Makes watching him such a chore.

Certainly an eye opener!

Oh look ... swimming pools! 😆

I've recorded it,sounds like it's worth watching 😉

So, so sad.

A country we know well and love but such a mess.

Didn't recognise the Crete he was visiting at all - lovely place, lovely people. Having spent five weeks in Crete alone in the last decade or so, the last week of which was last year (probably fifteen weeks in Greece as a whole), we have never seen a single gun there. Didn't agree with the anti Germany dudes though.

Will go there again with no qualms. Lesvos likewise. Lovely place - but very, very full of litter - and that was before the immigration crisis.

Why don't you sod off, chewkw, you are not adding anything to this conversation.

As usual.

I like Reevie..

Too much focus on immigration, whilst,topical and important I expected a more balanced view.

Liked to dudes in the hills, proper red necks.

JulianA - Member
Why don't you sod off, chewkw, you are not adding anything to this conversation.

As usual.

The first comment I made was about the film crews being threaten by a teenager (with gun according to Simon Reeve) where they were to told to delete the film or get hurt so they run.

The second comment I made was about Simon Reeve counting the number of swimming pool where he said something about people not paying the tax rate they should. He actually said in front of the camera by pointing to the swimming saying " ... look another swimming pool ...(counting and pointing smiling)".

That's exactly what happened in the documentary.

I was just pointing to the comments Simon Reeve made. Did I say something to hurt your feeling?

Now if you cannot understand what I said I suggest you ask for clarification before commenting.

[b]I have NOT ask anyone on this forum to "sod off" (Politicians yes) regardless of their comments good or bad against me so what's your beef? [/b] 😯

Have you added something new to the conversation beyond Simon Reeve? 🙄

Also I said "dog mess" you said "mess" after me ... perhaps I have used the wrong slang. Bottom line the place has gone to the dogs (another slag). Do you have any problem with that description? How do you describe the place differently?

we have never seen a single gun there

Never been there during a festival or wedding then 🙂

Place is full of them...Cretians could start a revolution if they fancied 🙂

I didn't see it, I'll have to now.

Greece is screwed, I said it back in 2003...Corruption kills the country. Those at the top and the very wealthy, break every law they can, to fill their own pockets, nothing ever happens, so the man in the street says, "Why should I follow the rules, no body else does and they are doing okay".

I love the country, but the politics and wealthy will continue to grab what ever they can and screw the consequences.

I actually think the Troika should have taken control at the start and sorted things out...especially the tax evaders. All the government did was tax normal people on PAYE more and more and never really went after the wealthy Doctors/Lawyers/Business owners.

I have to laugh, I still pay tax there on a property that I can't sell unless for a huge loss and the rent doesn't even cover the mortgage, so I pay tax on a property that costs me money.

I actually think the Troika should have taken control at the start and sorted things out...especially the tax evaders. All the government did was tax normal people on PAYE more and more and never really went after the wealthy Doctors/Lawyers/Business owners.

Err .. right. The Troika insist on screwing the little guys while protecting the big guys (e.g. TV stations and their patrons). They are part of the problem, not the solution.

The scenes with the families landing in the dinghies were just heartbreaking 🙁

Err .. right. The Troika insist on screwing the little guys while protecting the big guys (e.g. TV stations and their patrons). They are part of the problem, not the solution

Do you really think so? Of course the Greeks would never accept that, as good as occupation, but their politicians have made a right pigs ear of it.

I'm no great fan of the Germans, but I will say they would have probably got on with things, even if the consequences aren't to everyone's taste.(Christ there's some dodgy undertones there).

Greek government after Greek government have dragged their feet and not really implemented anything, or made the necessary reforms. Playing political games. The Greek political guys are all in the pockets of the ship owners and wealthy business bods. At least we could hope that foreign influence may break that hold of the wealthy over the Governments.

I have to honest, I lived in Athens from 2003 until 2012 so I lived through and actually left because of all this mess. I'm back there every year and have Greek family so keep up with what's what....as far as I can see, nothings really changed since 2009 apart from going downhill.

Funnily enough, with the conservatives in power just before the current government, people started to mention that things were starting to look better and they were confident things were turning around.....In fact, weren't they the one that closed down ERT, which lets face it, was costing the tax payer way too much money.

Then Tsiparas (sp?) the savior got in and we all know how that one's turning out. Including bringing back ERT.

Greece has been screwed since the Ottomans and I reckon it will be for the rest of my life....too many difference in peoples attitudes and political beliefs.

growinglad - Member

I have to laugh, I still pay tax there on a property that I can't sell unless for a huge loss and the rent doesn't even cover the mortgage, so I pay tax on a property that costs me

I've owned a house in Greece for the last eleven years and yes, I pay property tax on that every year too. I don't rent it out but I do spend about 40% of the year there. Of course, it costs me too - maintenance, like with any house anywhere.
But then I didn't buy an old house in a mountain village under the illusion that I was going to ever make any money on it - far from it. I don't have a mortgage on it either nor would I ever have considered buying if I had needed a mortgage. We were fortunate enough to unexpectedly inherit enough to buy it and it so it was, for us, a no-brainer.

Every penny spent on it has, in my (and my wife's) opinion been more than worth it for the experience it's given us, the very good friends that we've made and the opportunity to live, and be made welcome, in a small community in a beautiful part of the world.

growinglad - like you I have family in Greece and own property there, and haev had a nightmare with taxes, incorrect bills, tenants unable to pay their rent etc.

For sure there is blame to go round, but the recent experience shows that the EU is not interested in long term prosperity in Greece, only control by multinationals, so they insist that Greece privatises its water at a time when the Germans are actually re-nationalising theirs. They insist that the non-licenced private TV stations, owned by banks, be allowed to continue to broadcast illegaly and at a loss whereas they didn't utter a peep when ND closed down ERT (approx = BBC).

Anyway - I will be watching the programme this evening 🙂

Great TV. Truly eye-opening. It makes you realise how little invesigative reporting there is on TV nowadays. Its all just superficial fluff

Heres some more considered opinion from Paul Mason on how Europe has failed Greece, and how things there could be about to get [url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/01/europes-refugee-story-has-hardly-begun-greece ]an awful lot worse[/url]

Pretty depressing reading 😥

Anyway - I will be watching the programme this evening

Me too now. I didn't realise who the guy was, but I've just checked him out now on the web. Seen a few things of his before that were interesting, looks like it could be pretty interesting in more ways than one.

That's the one thing I've just never understood. Greece is at an all time low, although the national companies need to have a good kick up their arses, to sell them now would be suicide, the vultures are out to pay the very very minimum...and you can bet any income wouldn't go to the people, but dodgy politicians and "business" men.

It's all really one big cluster *****

How do you fix Greece?
If you wrote off their debt (regardless of what would happen to the people they owed) would they be able to dig themselves out of their hole?
Should they be assisted out of the euro to stop the rot spreading?

The scenes on Crete were potent reminders of the island. We visited a few times in the 80’s & most of the roadside signs had been well used for target practice. We were also lucky enough to be invited to the wedding of the brother of the owner of the rooms we were staying in. I can say for certain the Lamb is delicious & considerable amounts of ammunition was fired into the air (which was concerning at the time as there was a metal framework overhead!)

growinglad - Member

we have never seen a single gun there

Never been there during a festival or wedding then

Place is full of them...Cretians could start a revolution if they fancied

Google for Crete and Zoniana: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/2207277/Drug-dealing-shepherds-set-up-Crete-crime-empire.html

My sister lives there with a Greek (Cretan) husband. We were on their place up in the hills (no actually that far from Heraklion) and I heard automatic gunfire and asked what it was; he replied "just some ****er with an AK47". The police have introduced a law to impound and crush cars of anyone caught loosing off stray rounds into the air (at wedding and christenings etc.) because there have been numerous injuries and damage caused. Obviously.

As to the program, I only caught a snippet and hard to turn over because of how angry the whole Greece/EU/Goldman Sachs things makes me. I had a blazing argument with my Greek relative; I know the date exactly because I flew home the next day to chaos - September 10th 2002. 15 years ago it was clear to me, a mechanical engineer (not an economist) that the whole Euro project was fudged, doomed and akin to having different speed trains running together on a circular train track. The boom-bust this has caused makes me hugely angry. Life is exceedingly tough there now.

The scenes on Crete were potent reminders of the island. We visited a few times in the 80’s & most of the roadside signs had been well used for target practice. We were also lucky enough to be invited to the wedding of the brother of the owner of the rooms we were staying in. I can say for certain the Lamb is delicious & considerable amounts of ammunition was fired into the air (which was concerning at the time as there was a metal framework overhead!)

As The Ramones said - "ain't no stoppin, the Cretans from hoppin' " 🙂

That's the one thing I've just never understood. Greece is at an all time low, although the national companies need to have a good kick up their arses, to sell them now would be suicide, the vultures are out to pay the very very minimum...and you can bet any income wouldn't go to the people, but dodgy politicians and "business" men.

Well remember that Schauble's demand was that they be sold and the funds put in a Luxembourg bank controlled by ... Schauble.

JulianA - Member
Why don't you sod off, chewkw, you are not adding anything to this conversation.

Bang out of order guv. (Sorry, I've just watched "Legend")

Well remember that Schauble's demand was that they be sold and the funds put in a Luxembourg bank controlled by ... Schauble.

We'll probably never know....but the amount of dirty games played behind the scenes would probably make Satan blush.

growinglad - Member

We'll probably never know....but the amount of dirty games played behind the scenes would probably make Satan blush.

A couple of very good interviews with Varoufakis here: https://woodfordfunds.com/insight/varoufakis-on-europe-brexit/

Downloaded for journey home!

More dismal news for Greece today; stockmarkets at lowest level since 1990.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-08/reason-europes-sudden-bloodbath

I just turned this off after 30 minutes. Was a bit "travel-guide" for me.

Had some fun and pain with the ASE in the past!! But with the link to zerohedge, I am more concerned with the Deutsche BK story and what's going in across European banks at the moment. Another day of carnage.

I just turned this off after 30 minutes. Was a bit "travel-guide" for me.

Shoulda stuck with it - some less touristy spots later on 🙂

The vast pollution laced rubbish dump was a real eye opener to me. No, the whole programme was. I knew the Greek goose was cooked, I had no idea how crispy it was.

Man alive, that is one enormous mess.

Not seen it yet , but The Reeve is always quality viewing.......

Thought the piece with the refugees summed up the situation very well...

Even I, a hard-nosed unsympathetic git, was moved by Simon with the family.

However I was frankly shocked by the reaction of the male relatives of the mum,daughter and son he stopped to help... Where were they when the mum was struggling to carry her son in the heat? It was at that point I thought "no"...

Oh, and "look... Another swimming pool... And another!"

(Julian.... You've a name that ranks alongside Stefan.)

Think I'll leave it a good few years until I visit the country (even without my German plated motor).

Think I'll leave it a good few years until I visit the country (even without my German plated motor).

Why is that? The majority of the country is not visibly affected by the migrant crisis and as a tourist you are insulated from the poverty just as when you visit anywhere.

Thought the piece with the refugees summed up the situation very well...

Even I, a hard-nosed unsympathetic git, was moved by Simon with the family.

However I was frankly shocked by the reaction of the male relatives of the mum,daughter and son he stopped to help... Where were they when the mum was struggling to carry her son in the heat? It was at that point I thought "no"...

Oh, and "look... Another swimming pool... And another!"

(Julian.... You've a name that ranks alongside Stefan.)

Think I'll leave it a good few years until I visit the country (even without my German plated motor).

Back when I was living there, we had a lot of ****stani immigrants, washing windscreens or selling bananas/water at the traffic lights. That was pretty bad and they had a tough life back then....when times were okay, now days the Syrians and others will have it much worse. You think it's bad there, wait till you get to Patra where they are trying to get Ferries to Italy...when I left in 2012 the place was bloody scary. Lorries driving down the wrong side of the road so they didn't get stuck in traffic and immigrants trying to jump on the lorry. They were running down the road, coming out of everywhere trying to catch up with these lorries, scary stuff!

I'm not sure whether we got the whole story about the "men" not liking it that the women took a lift....must admit, had me ranting a bit. I've been giving it some thought since, maybe they were more worried that the woman would be taken in by the authorities and not allowed to just pass through...who knows. At the end of the day they should have been taking more care of the kids and woman, or they could be just stuck in the dark ages with their backward views....who knows.

I used to live and still have an apartment just below Kiffisia, even back in 2003 I used to say "How the F" do people afford these properties, I'm no fan of the Tax man, but seeing the other side of the coin with Lax authorities you wish they were more ruthless....still, half of them are probably bent, rather taking a 20-30 Grand bonus than chasing someone for 100 Grand and knowing that they personally wouldn't see anything in their pocket if they did their job properly.

As for visiting. Apart from the Islands closest to Turkey, you won't see anything different. The tourist places have always done okay and not wanting to paint them all with the same brush, most of the stuff they do is with cash and no receipts, so measures or no measures, they will still do well.

As for the German plates, get a Greek sticker for the back of your car, they will just think you are a Greek living in Germany 🙂

Bit that got me was the "Anarchists". I know this area too, granted is way lefty, but I was surprised with the guy going on about shooting the camera man. Going out on a limb here, but considering when he spoke bad English, it wasn't really with a Greek accent (if his English was that bad he'd also have a pretty strong accent with it), so again, maybe we didn't see the full story. Maybe a Drugy, or dealer not liking cameras on his "turf"...who knows.
Most of these left kids come from "good" backgrounds, just knob heads who think communism is a great thing....I had the misfortune of listing to their crap on more than one occasion.

Interesting stuff, but having lived there from 2003-2012 and visiting a few places, I've actually witnessed most of it first hand. Including walking back from the hospital after our boys were born and walking through the middle of the burning rubbish bins because the metro was shut down. Also nearly getting a smack from a riot police because I was a bit drunk after a night in the pub and walked around a corner and straight into a line of police...had to do a quick bit of talking there.

Ah the good ol days! Don't think I could be further from those experiences now days living in Switzerland....although the way the right wing are gaining support here, I might be feeling just like the Syrians soon!! 😉

Doubt the Greeks are a bunch of collective autistics like the Swiss... 🙂

I wouldn't be worried about the German thing - I've never been aware of any animosity towards the Gwermans, though of course Schauble may have undone 50 years of tourist diplomacy. I would be more concerned, as a Brit, at being held accountable for my country's complicity in the civil war.

Doubt the Greeks are a bunch of collective autistics like the Swiss...

I couldn't possibly comment.... 🙂

I always try and be polite to my hosts.....as in all walks of life, there are good and bad.

DrJ - Member

Think I'll leave it a good few years until I visit the country (even without my German plated motor).

Why is that? The majority of the country is not visibly affected by the migrant crisis and as a tourist you are insulated from the poverty just as when you visit anywhere.

You will also find there are very few tourist places that will offer you the option to pay with cards - cash is king and that is not always convenient for tourists.

You will also find there are very few tourist places that will offer you the option to pay with cards - cash is king and that is not always convenient for tourists.

As a matter of fact I don't remember ever paying for anything by card in Greece. Last summer there was a scare about ATM machines, so I took a wad of cash, but in the event there was no problem at all.

Looks like he's wearing a Mongoose jacket tonight. MTBer?

A spare seat belt buckle to stop the car warning bleep, genius

Yeah, should sell them over here.. Bloody annoying beeps.

Another good episode.

As for those dancing bear trainers I think they should undergo cowboy style shooting at the feet demanding them to dance. You know ... now dance!

Oh look ... dynamite coal! 😛
Oh look ... pollution! 😮

Anyone care to dispute what you have just seen?

The olive farm ... hmmm ... I can say the best olive oil in the world come from Southern Greece. Taste amazing! Well IMO anyway ...

I do like his programmes

I wish he'd stop talking like he's a children's tv presenter though

@chewkw Apologies - I now get your points and your last post was very pertinent.

As much as I love Greece and feel desperately sorry for their situation I will not be visiting again any time soon.

The bit about the bear had me in tears. The corruption breaks my heart. I will not support their tourist industry any more as they need a bloody good lesson in sorting things out: maybe being run by Germany would be a good thing for them this time. They took money from the EU under false pretences and should be made to pay.

Sad for the lovely people who need to make a living there, though - and we've met loads of those.

Genuinely shocked at their level of spending on military. The whole country seems a shambles

JulianA - Member
@chewkw Apologies - I now get your points and your last post was very pertinent.

I stopped listening/watching for a short moment when I saw the bear ... coz my blood started to boil. Actually my blood was boiling and smoke was already coming out from my nostrils ... 😡

No god or human can change the Greek if they do not want to change themselves. The Greek need to wake up quickly or slowly get wasted. They need to deal with corruption first then learn to comply with slight rigidity in life. i.e. comply with law ... notice the car seat belt culture? 😆

I respect the Orthodox Monks who are trying to live at peace amongst themselves. Nice people who are brave enough to take that path. Pity they are seen as outcast as I do not see them doing any harm to anyone just because they do not want to become part of a big umbrella religious authority ...

Sad for the lovely people who need to make a living there, though - and we've met loads of those.

My Greek friends like to argue very much ... coz you know they have Aristotle, Plato etc ... but they are generally nice people if you are not offended by their argumentative nature. I like to wind them up a bit by saying the Turks are coming to take their olive farms then they have to use hydrogenated palm oil ... 😆

Damn! I love to drink Southern Greek olive oil ... yes, I normally drink a spoonful of that thing!

Pawsy_Bear - Member
Genuinely shocked at their level of spending on military. The whole country seems a shambles

Pawsy_Bear - Member

Genuinely shocked at their level of spending on military.

Greece's military spending is only a little above the minimum they're [i]required[/i] to spend as a NATO member. Until recent years they were literally one of the borders of Europe and the Soviet bloc. And they have a [i]kind of unfriendly[/i] relationship with their neighbour Turkey

But probably more important, much of that money goes to Germany, France and the UK. A cynical person might think there's a reason defence cuts are never mooted when the iron chanceller demands austerity packages, eh? Slash pensions while paying German companies 3 billion quid for submarines that don't work, that a former Greek minister was bribed to order...

But probably more important, much of that money goes to Germany, France and the UK. A cynical person might think there's a reason defence cuts are never mooted when the iron chanceller demands austerity packages, eh? Slash pensions while paying German companies 3 billion quid for submarines that don't work, that a former Greek minister was bribed to order...

Indeed - and Greece still waiting for the extradition of the Germans responsible for paying massive bribes. But being ruled by the Germans will "sort them out", eh? Really, you read some stupid comments on this forum but that wins a prize!

The claims about military spending don't seem to be supported by the dats

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.MPRT.KD?order=wbapi_data_value_2014+wbapi_data_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=asc

No getting away from the fact that they modern tanks I could see that and the submarines.

Crazy
170 Leopard 2A6
183 Leopard 2A4
501 Leopard 1A5/GR
390 M48A5 MOLF
70 M60A3 TTS

They then tried to buy more M1 A1 from US!

UK 227 Challenger
French Army has a total of 406 Leclerc

Yes, they have more tanks than France and UK

A country out of control

A country next to the Balkans and to Turkey, a powerful enemy, marginally democratic that violates their territory on a daily basis.

I'd dispute that Bulgaria, Albania or Macedonia are a real military threat at all and that Turkey isn't likely to invade another NATO member. Least of all Greece

I'd dispute that Bulgaria, Albania or Macedonia are a real military threat at all and that Turkey isn't likely to invade another NATO member. Least of all Greece

Because there have been no wars in the Balkans recently. NATO is not doing much for Greece to stop Turkish planes and ships violating Greek territory, or to stop them doing other stupid things like shooting down Russian planes or shelling Kurdish anti-ISIS fighters. The Greeks don't trust NATO and they sure as hell don't trust the Turks (who have about 4000 tanks, BTW).

Some points:
Can Greece afford all that kit? No.
Was there corruption involved in its purchase? Yes - Greek and German.
Are Germany and France helping? No - when Greece was told to reduce its military expenditure they tried to cancel contracts with France and Germany, but they were not allowed to do so, so they had to (retroactively) cut salaries. Cue massive vote for Golden Dawn by military personnel.
Is there history? Yes - after the fall of the Junta (supported by .. oh yes ... NATO "friends") the military were sweetened by lots of toys.
Do the Greeks need a strong military? You think not, but you don't live there.

From a purely military point having so many different types of tanks means huge training and logistic costs. All of which means less not more military capability only compounded by a conscript army

From a purely military point having so many different types of tanks means huge training and logistic costs. All of which means less not more military capability only compounded by a conscript army

No-one's pretending it's efficient. Just that it's somewhat understandable.

Another interesting programme. Loved the 'Rebel Monks' with their stills full of ouzo 😀

I'm trying to dig out the article that Paul Mason wrote about Greece. He'd worked out that the Greek railway system was so inefficient that it would actually be cheaper to get every rail passenger a taxi to their destination. The train drivers were on a salary of over 65,000 euros 😯 And people moan about what London tube drivers get paid

I think the article that everyone quotes was in Rolling Stone. Paul Mason usually has a more nuanced grasp of the situation.

DrJ - Member
Some points:
Can Greece afford all that kit? No.
Was there corruption involved in its purchase? Yes - Greek and German.
Are Germany and France helping? No - when Greece was told to reduce its military expenditure they tried to cancel contracts with France and Germany, but they were not allowed to do so, so they had to (retroactively) cut salaries. Cue massive vote for Golden Dawn by military personnel.
Is there history? Yes - after the fall of the Junta (supported by .. oh yes ... NATO "friends") the military were sweetened by lots of toys.
Do the Greeks need a strong military? You think not, but you don't live there.

Good points, well made.

Dr J - Paul Mason did point out that the country that is going to continue to be at the forefront of the refugee crisis is Greece. And that the rest of Europe is doing as little to support them, as they did during the Euro crisis.

Yet if it continues like this, all that this will lead to is the inevitable rise of Golden Dawn

DrJ - Member
Some points:
Can Greece afford all that kit? No.
Was there corruption involved in its purchase? Yes - Greek and German.
Are Germany and France helping? No - when Greece was told to reduce its military expenditure they tried to cancel contracts with France and Germany, but they were not allowed to do so, so they had to (retroactively) cut salaries. Cue massive vote for Golden Dawn by military personnel.
Is there history? Yes - after the fall of the Junta (supported by .. oh yes ... NATO "friends") the military were sweetened by lots of toys.
Do the Greeks need a strong military? You think not, but you don't live there.

Good points, well made.

Corruption is an issue in Greece, endemic I'd say. Military purchases, don't think Greece was forced into it. As for contracts then defaulting well you will have to rely on more good will.

I don't live there but defence and economics is a global issue. This is forum where we can debate. The junta ended in the 70's some 40 odd years ago. Cant see the connection. But of course Cyprus hasn't been resolved.