[Closed] Should tobacco be made illegal?

It gets people outside into the beer gardens.

It gets people out of offices for a few minutes at least.

So the only reason something should be legal is if its beneficial?

You're going to have your hands full banning an awful lot of shit, under that assertion

And what benefits does it have? As any 15 year old lad will tell you, it makes you look really really cool!

Well, the public purse would lose around ten billion pounds or so.

I don't smoke anymore, but used to really enjoy a cigarette with an espresso in the morning, or with a beer. People who have never smoked don't 'Get it' because it stinks, and if you've only ever had a few puffs on one it's horrendous but after the bedding in period it's actually quite pleasurable.

I did get sick of the cost, smell, and obvious health implications in the end and stopped smoking.

Obviously paying for treatment/quitting helplines is a huge drain on taxpayers money and if it were to be invented today I have no doubt that it would be illegal.

EDIT: After reading posts below I retract any words about "drain on taxpayers money" because I can't substantiate that with any evidence 😛

But how much of that ten billion gets taken by NHS expenditure?

Indeed Flashy.Can I pre-empt the next comment about the cost to the NHS. Smokers die young and quickly. We don't tent to linger on requiring years of treatment. And we don't require much in the way of pensions. Its the healthy who should pay more tax really. We're subsidising you lot, you know

Jus' sayin, like

But how much of that ten billion gets taken by NHS expenditure?

About £5bn on the last report.

Seeing all the proven harm it does yeah go for it. Booze too, pretty sure we'd get around to legalising regulating and supporting all drugs (not just the select few a bunch of Victorians thought were ok) pretty damn quick if we did.

for harm reduction probably- its certainly the most dangerous to do long term and by some way

I dont think it would work though

prescription only

or the way the norwegians do it with wine n spirits

(Should add a disclaimer - I haven't bought a single cigar in the UK for years. Tend to buy all mine overseas, and even then usually duty free. I was given a nice box of Monte 3s last week, which was bought in the UK, so at least some tax revenue can be attributed to me! )

Don't smoke anymore, gave up years ago. Knowing what I know now, I'd never have started as a youngster.

I don't think it should be made illegal, but I'm happy for it to be made as uncool and anti social as possible, mainly because it'll discourage people from starting, and encourage people to stop.

[img] [/img]

😉

I thought it was cunnilingus that gave him throat cancer?..sure the cigars didn't help either mind.

Just imagine the scenario.
An importer discovers this new plant called tobacco.
Goes to the Government health (whoever department).
Says he wants to sell it in the uk.
Government tests it.
Finds out all the medical niceties - Cancer, Emphecima, etc,etc,etc.
Importer asks if he can bring it in and sell it
What do you think the answer would be?

Yes of course tobacco should be made illegal. It is utterly bonkers when you think about it. Future civilisations will look back in great confusion over what we did to ourselves!

Despite liking a pint as much as anyone, I believe the greatest think we could do to improve the country is ban alcohol - or at the very least implement massively strict penalties for public drunkenness and alcohol-related antisocial behaviour/criminal activity.

iolo - Member
Just imagine the scenario.
An [s]importer discovers this new plant called tobacco.[/s]inventor comes up with a means of generating energy via a series of carefully timed explosions using a highly flammable liquid
Goes to the Government[s] health [/s](whoever department).
Says he wants to sell it in the uk.
Government tests it.
Finds out all the [s]medical niceties - Cancer, Emphecima, etc,etc,etc.[/s] inhernet dangers
Importer asks if he can bring it in and sell it
What do you think the answer would be?

The cat's out of the box, I'm afraid, so your point is rather a moot one.

What do you think the answer would be?

How much will we make each?

Yes of course tobacco should be made illegal. It is utterly bonkers when you think about it. Future civilisations will look back in great confusion over what we did to ourselves!

It's about 4,000 years since it was first used and we're still not looking back.

It annoys me that smokers get to leave the building every hour or so for an extra break. I'd make them clock off.

It annoys me that smokers get to leave the building every hour or so for an extra break. I'd make them clock off.

Many companies make them clock off.

But thats only fair. You get that time back when we've died of emphysema, but you're still loitering around in gods waiting room, sucking Werthers originals and smelling of wee 😛

And they built them a glass shelter which they don't stand in when the suns out. 👿

inventor comes up with a means of generating energy via a series of carefully timed explosions using a highly flammable liquid

Generating energy from such a device would be bery very impressive indeed. Your wider comparison is however fallacious as the internal combustion engine, whilst have some negative impacts, also has positive ones that cannot easily be generated in any other way. The same is not true of smoking.

I'm enjoying a nice embassy no1 as I type ( 😳 ) but I don't think making it illegal would make it go away it's too ingrained in society but making it uncool and getting people to quit/not start is the way forward once the number of smokers is down too less than 1% of the UK population then boom drop the bomb shell and ban it. Until that day happens I'd personally like to see the government make it the most uncool anti social thing everto stop kids doing from the off poss make the age limit for starting from 18 too 25

Whatever happened to personal choice - the smoking nazis get on my moobs - it seems to be more socially acceptable to take illegal drugs (and campaign for them to be made legal) than it is to drink or smoke.
My choice to drink or smoke or ride with no helmet. I dont give a sh1t if you dont like it but it's my choice.
Maybe I should campaign to make wood burners illegal, or 29rs, or lycra.

It's about 4,000 years since it was first used and we're still not looking back.

Whatever happened to personal choice

Yeah that's all fine but whilst most smokers casually chuck their fag ends on the floor then why should it be accepted.

Oh and sucking on a mint tic-tac is not going to disguise that smell, especially in a lift. You lot stink a lot worse than you think

If people smoke it masks the smell of stale sweat ,very evident in pubs since the ban

ban it!

Whatever happened to personal choice

I'm not sure that there's a great deal of choice in something so addictive. In fact, I would go as far to say that the tobacco industry is very interested in limiting the choice of their customers.

As for state financial gain, the overall cost of smoking outweighs the revenue it creates by about £3.5bn per year. Unfortunately, legal precedents exist that prevent the banning of tobacco use. There are also ethical implications on halting access to a substance of which ~20% of UK adults are addicted.

But surely legal precedents can be changed should the health of your country be in jeopardy?

Personally would ban it, still have to put up with smoking in the workplace 🙁 hate it, most laws don't seem to apply round here, but that's a different story.

It also makes me chuckle, that it's considered acceptable to smoke and drive, most people say it helps them relaxed surely you want them to be alert, and if they are that dependent should they even be behind the wheel.

But surely legal precedents can be changed should the health of your country be in jeopardy?

The health of the country isn't in jeopardy though, is it? The health of a small percentage of the population who choose to indulge through their own freewill/stupidity, while contributing huge amounts in tax, is. And that's a completely different thing altogether.

If I want to kill myself, its got nob all to do with you, the government, or anyone else. Just as if you want to go and throw yourself off a bridge, its none of my business

Anyway.... if they banned smoking completely then what would all the tedious, whining, we-know-best health-nazi's have to bleat on about then? Eh? What?

If I want to kill myself, its got nob all to do with you, the government, or anyone else. Just as if you want to go and throw yourself off a bridge, its none of my business

Likewise with smoking. Yes, if you only sit in your room alone and smoke, and have no friends/family, it doesn't affect anyone else. Who does that then?

well unless we're both in prison, then I can't smoke in a room containing you anyway

We're not in prison, are we? Are we in prison? Do you want to be mummy or daddy? And can I have a fag afterwards? 😉

I am Bipolar and have attempted to leave this world a few times. So really bad taste Binners.
However do you really think that passive smoke is acceptable in to day's society. If so there's not much point discussing this any further with you.

I'm sorry to hear that. Passive smoking? Hmmmmmmmmmmm..... so... where is this passive smoking you're so concerned about taking place then? Because, as a smoker, I've noticed that If I smoke indoors, then I'm now breaking the law. So... where are you being exposed to other peoples smoke then?

Passive driving as well now;

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/27/diesel-engine-fumes-worse-petrol

for the terminally dim (passive smoking in an outdoor environment) [url= http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22484462 ]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22484462[/url]

How about we do a "Russian" and encourage people to drink and smoke more - reducing the effects of the aging population.

I hate smoking, it killed 3 out of 4 grandparents and there's a good chance it'll kill my younger sister before I pop my clogs.

However, I don't think it should be banned, like binners says, if he wants’ to smoke, then it's his choice to spend hundreds of pounds a year doing something that, I guess, brings him some pleasure.

I didn't know that konaboy.
Back on topic.
We've had many cons which would make sense to cirminalize it.
Binners, can you give me the pro's of smoking for your case?
Don't just say it's my body or I'll do what I want.

If people smoke it masks the smell of stale sweat ,very evident in pubs since the ban

You need to start frequenting some nicer pubs. 😉

Konaboy - you're not allowed to mention car fumes, as this is something that the whiny bleaters also produce.

fumes from exhaust of moaning, bleating everyone-stop-doing-anything-I don't-like whiner = totally acceptable part of modern life
fumes from the mouth of a nasty evil poisening-us-all smoker = the very personification of evil

I reckon I can hazard a guess as to what cumulatively is doing the most damage

zilog6128 - I have no idea what those figures represent, but its smoking outdoors FFS! I strongly suspect that if I stood within 6ft of you and farted, I'd be doing your internal organs more damage 🙄

EDIT: The pro's of smoking? I enjoy it. Is that ok with you?

Don't just say it's my body or I'll do what I want.

Binners earlier.

And I have no idea what those figures represent, but its smoking outdoors FFS! I strongly suspect that if I stood within 6ft of you and farted, I'd be doing your internal organs more damage

Binners, somehow I get the feeling that if I used NCBI and bothered to look up the free radical content of human shit then it would be far less than that found in smoke.

You've clearly never experienced my farts

I do think that this could just be solved by bringing back smoking areas/lounges. Seeing as most waiters smoke anyway.

Lol at Tom_W1987

That's how I imagined binners too.

Its frighteningly accurate

Seeing as most waiters smoke anyway.

That's how I imagined binners too.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Much as smoking is bad for you if it was made illegal you will not stop people smoking it, just criminalise a section of society and drive it underground. Daft IMHO.

Much as smoking is bad for you if it was made illegal you will not stop people smoking it, just criminalise a section of society and drive it underground.

and no one likes smoking underground where there is limited ventilation.

Much as smoking is bad for you if it was made illegal you will not stop people smoking it, just criminalise a section of society and drive it underground.

Yeah that's all fine but whilst most smokers casually chuck their fag ends on the floor then why should it be accepted.

Here's an idea then.

Make littering illegal*

Rather than the thing that produces the litter. (I can't really believe I needed to point that out.)

*yes I know

Just whack the price up to £20 a box

I like the odd beer I'm happy for the cost of booze to go up too

I like the odd beer I'm happy for the cost of booze to go up too

zilog6218 - there is a black market now, if it was illegal I think it would only get bigger (although that is pure speculation and you could be right!)
But I also think we are moving towards a nanny state and if people want to smoke let them (not in my house though, you go into the garden)

Yes of course tobacco should be made illegal. It is utterly bonkers when you think about it. Future civilisations will look back in great confusion over what we did to ourselves!

Despite liking a pint as much as anyone, I believe the greatest think we could do to improve the country is ban alcohol - or at the very least implement massively strict penalties for public drunkenness and alcohol-related antisocial behaviour/criminal activity.

This is just the sort of killjoy rubbish that gets my goat. Just what is wrong with consuming a substance which alters your mood/mind/body for fun? God forbid grown sensible adults should be able to decide for themselves how they enjoy their free time and what substances they may use to help that.

Sweet baby Jesus and the orphans! Even by the usual standards of SingletrackWhine this thread has surpassed itself! Its like mumsnet! My smug, hectoring middle-class sanctimonitor just went off the scale!

Are there any other activities that some people might derive some enjoyment from, and that scarcely effect you, that you'd like to damn with your booming, righteous disaproval? Now we've banned beer and smoking, whats next? 😆

Energy drinks

Did you manage to come up with some pro points for smoking yet binners?
Just wondering. I haven't heard anything yet.
Nothing wrong with a beer in moderation.

don't ban it at all! if someone's smoking it's so much easier to make snap judgements about them 😈

Yes... If you look up there you'll see:

Plus points: I enjoy it.

I know that in the opinion of you, and a few others that that's no justification for doing something, to me its the perfect one!

Oh..... And there's now another: because it clearly annoys you 😀

This is just the sort of killjoy rubbish that gets my goat.

Just what is wrong with consuming a substance which alters your mood/mind/body for fun?

Did you manage to come up with some pro points for smoking yet binners?

Isn't a pro point the fact that someone just enjoys doing something?

It's not annoying me at all 😀
I'm sure you're a lovely guy. I'd give you a manhug bug can't stand the stench of fags so I will only shake your hand.
Oh yes, there's no way I'll sog you unless you have a mothfull of mints.

Likewise with smoking. Yes, if you only sit in your room alone and smoke, and have no friends/family, it doesn't affect anyone else. Who does that then?

My father died aged 65 last year from lung cancer after a lifetime of smoking. From close up experience of what it looks like in the last 10 months I wouldn't recommend. It's certainly not a 'cool' look! Not sure he suffered the most though- my mother lived through every nasty turn of his death including a pretty horrible last 48hrs 9which left her pretty scared). She's now struggling to get her head around making a new, unwanted, and quite frankly lonely retirement. In many ways I reckon she has suffered more from smoking than he did.

I really don't see smoking as always a choice though. He refused to talk about stopping I think because he recognised that his personality was such that he was unable to stop and saw that as a failing. Personal choice was used as a mask for his own failings. It was odd as he was pretty risk advise in all other aspects of his life so choosing to smoke himself to death was a curious choice!

Even so I'm not convinced making it illegal would work- making it terminally uncool would be better from the position we are today.

I enjoy it.

I always hated smoking, but since the smoking ban came into effect I just never encounter it. It made me realise that I didn't hate people smoking - I just hated people smoking near me. Now they don't, as far as I'm self centredly concerned, they can do it to their heart's content.

getting pissed up at home and causing trouble

Hey man, don't knock getting pissed up at home and causing trouble.

Are you allowed to smoke while causing trouble?

binners - Member
Are you allowed to smoke while causing trouble?

Only if you do it outside.

The only downside to the smoking ban is that beer gardens are now full of smokers. But at least there is now a seat inside I suppose.

The only downside to the smoking ban is that beer gardens are now full of smokers. But at least there is now a seat inside I suppose.

I know what you mean - could we replace it with a smokers outside in the winter, inside in the summer rule? And sweaty blokes and yeasty ladies have to do the same. That'll learn 'em.

I find it frightening how happy people are to ban stuff. I'm with Pierre Joseph Proudhon: “To be governed is to be kept in sight, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right, nor the wisdom, nor the virtue to do so . . .”

I find it frightening how happy people are to ban stuff.

Depends what your banning. Not all (if any) are equal.

Can you clarify which bannings frighten you?

Can you clarify which bannings frighten you?

I don't think we are supposed to talk about the bannings 😉

Cheezpleez - Member
I find it frightening how happy people are to ban stuff

+1000000000

None of anyone else's f*****g business if I smoke or not. Given that the NHS costs are outweighed by the taxes on fags, and pension is gonna be less, it's actually a public spirited thing to do. You should be encouraging it.