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er oh wait a minute haven't we been here before
Well, thats what Boris wants. I heard that shister Mog on the radio this morning. Christ, it couldn't be more obvious what those toe rags are up to. Whilst the Tories play their party games, the country is going to the dogs, and they don't give a sh1t.
How do we call for a general election?
Oh God I hope not.
Better the devil you know, if not her then who? Boris, JRM or Gove? 3 twunts so unbelievably unpopular and unlikeable the only way they’re going to win the PM job is via a mid-term coup and I don’t dare think what evil shit they’d do to appeal to their base to try to actually win a general election!
No, till we’ve pushed through this ‘B’ word disaster it’s May for me, hopefully by then someone will plunge the knife into Corbyn and us pro-EU Centralists will have someone to vote for come 2022.
Vote of no confidence followed by withdrawal of Article 50 until we've actually got a plan. I'm 54 and don't expect a workable plan in my lifetime.
you dont reckon Davis is going to have a go
Sajid Javid is the favourite at the bookies.
she will be told to go as was thatcher, and some equally incompetent fool will take her place till they succumb to the inevitable and a general election is called in October, and Mr Corbyn gets in, and we all live happily ever after.
Certainly not. I want to to see a really messy power struggle.
Well form having a Hunt as foreign sec we no have an actual Hunt as foreign sec!!
She's mince but somehow better than the alternatives. I thought the tories were the efficient and organised ones. This is a shambles. And yet exactly what Boris et al want.
us pro-EU Centralists will have someone to vote for come 2022.
Sorry P Jay, centirsm has been confined to the recycling bin of ideology
What's the problem? Aren't we 'strong and stable' and doesn't Brexit mean Brexit anymore?
Never mind, the billionaires who fund the Tory party will be making a killing on their currency speculations, so at least someone is doing well out of this.
I think the UK needs a coup like the Icelanders did.
I think she should gently steam and stew in her own ordure.
Naughtie: 'We now have **** in the FO position.'
Normally I'd say yes but if she does presumably Boris will end up as PM (which for me ranks as even more bizarre than Trump being President). Best case it would end up in a general election but although I wouldn't mind Corbyn being given a chance I wouldn't say he's a shoe-in and we'll still all end up ****ed with Brexit anyhow - just Labour will unfairly get the blame (at least by the right-wingers & xenophobes).
David Cameron should come back - he started this, it's only right he should finish it.
Sorry P Jay, centirsm has been confined to the recycling bin of ideology
Only in Labour, but then there's a New, New Labour Party simmering under the surface, they've picked up £50m in funding on the quiet in large donations. I'd personally be quite happy to see Corbyn, Diane Abbott and Jon Lansmann left all trying to purge each other for control of the Momentum Party.
I don't think she should resign, I think she should sort the mess out.
However in her shoes, I'd resign - let someone else take the blame - she was idiotic to take the poisoned chalice from Cameron in the first place. I don't think she'll be forced out as the party hopefully realises that some leadership is needed, and there won't be a new leader in place before the end of the 2 year negotiation period.
On top of that, I would hope that anyone contemplating a power grab can see that even if they were quickly installed, nothing they could do now would stop the unmitigated car crash that is Brexit (except for something really radical, like using the overspend of the Leave campaign as an excuse to re-run the referendum and halt the process for now, in the hope of a different result next time.). I would think she will be kicked out as soon as Brexit negotiations conclude.
Only in Labour, but then there’s a New, New Labour Party simmering under the surface, they’ve picked up £50m in funding on the quiet in large donations. I’d personally be quite happy to see Corbyn, Diane Abbott and Jon Lansmann left all trying to purge each other for control of the Momentum Party.
That is just an indication of how right wing the country has moved JC hasn't proposed any radical left wing solutions, that is just how he is portrayed. The Tories have nicked half of his manifesto to try and cover up their own incompetence. He has bean week on brexit but other than that he is a centrist candidate.
I find it somewhat disheartening that so many are fooled by the neocons into thinking we have been operating a centrist government, we haven't, we have been moving to the right for 40 years so much so that we have lost sight of the centre.
I like Corbyn, but he's a John Prescot, not a Blair.
Corbyn should stay where he is (and I think even the parliamentary party know this) to shield the centrist labour party from the current shitstorm. He does a good enough job of holding the torys to account and that's all you can really achieve as opposition unless you actually have an opportunity to completely destabilise the opposition.
He should then quietly step aside 12 months before the next general election to let someone who's more of a leader become PM with a cabinet not made up of Dianne Abbot* and a load of power hungry momentum activists who haven't yet quit the font bench. Corbyn can then be deputy to keep momentum happy and no one will call it a coup.
The tories know this, which is why they'll call another election whilst Corbyn is still in post. Although if the lib dems get another coalition maybe they could force him to form a more useful front bench and reconciliation with the back benches.
*I'm sure she's lovely, but she doesn't come across as competent, and this is politics, it's not the policies, someone else in a committee is supposed to write those, it's convincing people to follow them and she just doesn't do that.
Corbyn should stay where he is (and I think even the parliamentary party know this) to shield the centrist labour party from the current shitstorm. He does a good enough job of holding the torys to account and that’s all you can really achieve as opposition unless you actually have an opportunity to completely destabilise the opposition.
He should then quietly step aside 12 months before the next general election to let someone who’s more of a leader become PM with a cabinet not made up of Dianne Abbot* and a load of power hungry momentum activists who haven’t yet quit the font bench. Corbyn can then be deputy to keep momentum happy and no one will call it a coup.
That would be a superb strategy but I don't think it will happen.
Corbyn will not be replaced by a centrist candidate because Momentum are in the driving seat now & the leadership rules have changed. Momentum never let go - the change in Labour is permanent.
That would be a superb strategy
...for the neocons who want a tory party in red ties, but not for moving politics in the UK back to the centre.
I'd be surprised if May goes even slightly voluntarily. I don't think any politician would want to be remembered as the one who became PM in order to deliver Brexit and then failed to do so. She'll hang on and hope that some muddled compromise happens before someone knifes her in the back.
Once she's out of frontline politics it would be interesting if she opened the lid on all the stuff going on in the background of the Tory party. I bet she's way past thinking of her colleagues as merely the "nasty party".
Been thinking over lunch is this not a cunning plan to make sure that rather than having to introduce Trump to Johnson she gets to introduce him to Hunt instead.
I don’t think any politician would want to be remembered as the one who became PM in order to deliver Brexit and then failed to do so.
???
Being the PM who saved the UK from Brexit would be a fantastic end to a career. I'd take that every time.
Highly unlikely.
The Tories maybe a bunch of back stabbing rats in a bag, but they aren’t totally insane.
A leadership challenge would shortly lead to a GE & F knows what the outcome of that might be!
A leadership challenge would shortly lead to a GE & F knows what the outcome of that might be!
Why? As it stands a new leader could remain PM until 2022, well until such time as their colleagues stab them in the back - why on earth would they call another snap election.
why on earth would they call another snap election.
Vote of no confidence if the DUP realise they are being shafted?
Split if a brexit hard liner gets the job?
as I understand it a succesful no confidence (or failed confidence) vote pulled on May & a new leader cant be found in 14 days then we have an election, maybe, its complicated
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/not-so-fixed-term-parliaments-act
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Vote of no confidence if the DUP realise they are being shafted?
Split if a brexit hard liner gets the job?
"
This is why - thought it was obvious TBH.
The Gov is sitting on incredibly fractured foundations, if one of the factions thought it was getting shafted it could bring the whole house of cards down. The last thing they want is a complete outbreak of hostilities, at the moment it's a peace of sorts. After the weak "win" of the last GE, another new leader would face calls of a lack of mandate. Particularly, if they were a strong Leaver OR Remainer (of which May is neither) from within the party & outside. Staying in power is the name of the game & hostile entities know this - continuity of May as PM ensures this for now. JRM or someone equally polarising being PM would be too much for the Remainers/Leavers in the Tory party. May is acceptable, just, to both sides as it means none of them getting tarred. Ergo she stays.
This is why – thought it was obvious TBH.
The less obvious is a couple of principled MP's resign the whip and decide to stand as independent/UKIP/Remain.
Oink oink flap flap mike 😉
P-jay
...but then there’s a New, New Labour Party simmering under the surface, they’ve picked up £50m in funding on the quiet in large donations...
And that's precisely what's wrong with our "democracy".
No one puts up that sort of money without expecting quid pro quo.
It just means a different set of puppet masters controlling our government.
And "on the quiet"? Sounds like dirty business.
What's this new new labour party going to be like?
New, obvz.
The “no confidence” votes are in.
https://www.politicalite.com/tories/reports-may-face-no-confidence-vote-48-letters/
And that’s precisely what’s wrong with our “democracy”.
No one puts up that sort of money without expecting quid pro quo.
It just means a different set of puppet masters controlling our government.
And “on the quiet”? Sounds like dirty business.
I suppose we could fund politics via taxation, but it rarely works. It's been done on the hush because of the environment within the Labour party (make no mistake, this is a Labour *thing*) people seems to forget how Corbyn and Momentum treat detractors within the party.
It's the way he treated his colleagues after his power grab that makes him unpalatable to me, more than his wishy washy policies and his dislike of the EU / Globalisation as a whole.
Main funder is Simon Franks who is a former Labour Party member and business advisor, he's also a philanthropists - he made his money starting Loinsgate film and LoveFilm. Supposedly
They're supposedly pure centralist, if that's not an oxymoron - 'Socially Minded Capitalists' which is, near as dam it, 'New' Labour, happy to take policies from Left and Right of centre rather than this current polarised view of the world we seem to have adopted.
I suspect if they want to make an impression in the next decade they'll need MPs from both sides to defect - lots of pro-EU MPs on both sides.
The “no confidence” votes are in.
> https://www.politicalite.com/tories/reports-may-face-no-confidence-vote-48-letters/
Sweet Jesus on a pogo stick. The comments on that page are the epitome of the middle-aged backwards, suburban, racist, Daily Mail reading, moronic, ill-educated morons that got us into this cluster **** in the first place.
It’s the way he treated his colleagues after his power grab that makes him unpalatable to me,
Can you give some exact examples? Preferably elaborating on your use of "power grab". How do you feel it compared to the massive centralisation performed by new Labour.
happy to take policies from Left and Right of centre rather than this current polarised view of the world we seem to have adopted.
This is often claimed and yet most of the "moderates" come across as extremely polarised and utterly unwilling to work with anyone who disagrees with them. Whilst they may mix up what is traditional seen as left and right on the economic vs social policies that doesnt make them flexible in terms of any specific policy.
Under new labour what mostly happened is they lurched right on economic issues desperately following the tories so they could be "centrists" when they ended anything but.
They also helped lead to this entire Brexit mess when they decided to ignore their traditional voters in order to chase the "centrist" swing voters. Works for a while but then leaves all the traditional voters wondering why they are supporting a party who doesnt care about them and then they start looking at the alternative parties promising that they care.
What’s this new new labour party going to be like?
The "New better than ever washes whiter than white Labour party".
Ooh no probably not that might be misconstrued as racist. Erm... the... erm...
I am confused as I am finding a little sympathy for May. I do believe she is motivated by a sense of duty both to party and country and she looks tortured. How much longer can she go on?
I am sure she would survive a confidence vote but even without one she has no authority and everyone in the Eu is waiting for the government to collapse. They know she has no chance of getting any deal acceptable to them through parliament
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It’s the way he treated his colleagues after his power grab that makes him unpalatable to me
No offence chief but if you considered being elected against the odds via the party's approved method after the previous leader quit a "power grab" ithen you were obviously massively biased in the first place. It was surprising that he won but there was nothing at all unusual about his candidacy. And after his election he went to great lengths (too great imo) to work with those who didn't support his leadership.
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The power grab in the labour party was done by the right wing under Blair
Under Corbyn a bit of internal democracy has been restored
Name one hard left policy that labour have
But the sun calls him comrade Corbyn, so he must be a commie.
I do.
He ‘benefited’ shall we say by the little known Labour rule that allowed anyone to vote in Labour leadership contests for £3, which gave him a surge of votes from hard-left groups like Momentum and ironically Tory supporters who saw him as unelectable.
Once in control of Labour he sacked any MP from the front bench who didn’t agree with him, especially on leaving the EU which he seems keener than May to do. His way or the highway it seems, even MPs who represent constituencies that votes remain were told to support leaving the EU or they would be removed from the shadow cabinet.
With Jon Lansman he’s working toward ‘reselection’ for all Labour MPs, effectively removing sitting MPs from the ballot, presumably to purge more centrist, pro-EU MPs from parliament.
That kind of power grab.
He ‘benefited’ shall we say by the little known Labour rule that allowed anyone to vote in Labour leadership contests for £3, which gave him a surge of votes from hard-left groups like Momentum and ironically Tory supporters who saw him as unelectable.
Perhaps you could tell us who should be allowed to vote? You might also like to review who elected him because new members weren't the reason why he won.
because new members weren’t the reason why he won.
Twice
The power grab in the labour party was done by the right wing under Blair
Yeah I remember that, 3 general elections on the trot, the longest period of economic growth in UK history, the highest number of university students in history, the greatest drop in poverty in recent history, record employment, end of the ‘troubles’.
Shit wasn’t it.
Proper LOL P-Jay.
Economic growth - Luck, mostly.
Uni Students - nice way of avoiding rising youth unemployment
Poverty drop - partly due to economic growth, but I'll give them a partial credit for that
End of the troubles - iirc John Major had a lot to do with it too, so another partial credit.
Not forgetting the illegal war, messiah complex and lucking out with an exit just before a total economic meltdown and the excess spending pigeons coming home to roost...
lucking out with an exit just before a total economic meltdown and the excess spending pigeons coming home to roost…
Wasn't really excess until the financial crash was it?
Anyway, you sound like a bitter conservative as opposed to a Corbyn voter.
and boom we are back into the your shit stinks more than my shit stuff.
Any wonder why we are in the state we are in now
Anyway, you sound like a bitter conservative as opposed to a Corbyn voter.
Nope, I've never been rich/taken in enough to vote for them. I just have a dim view of politicians in general, they all seem to be riding the gravy train, one way or another.
Nope, I’ve never been rich/taken in enough to vote for them. I just have a dim view of politicians in general, they all seem to be riding the gravy train, one way or another.
That attitude leads to extremists or populists getting into power, there are plenty of good career politicians - Dan Jarvis for example, people just don't notice them quietly getting on with their jobs. It's also a self fulfilling prophecy, if you create a culture in which all politicians are viewed with cynicism and suspicion - you will attract the kinds of politicians who don't give a shit if that is how they are viewed.
A country gets the government it deserves, etc etc.
People who dislike Tony Blair and Gordon Brown have an odd understanding of economics - the years of growth were pure luck it seems, but the global banking crisis that originated in US was certainly their fault.
People who dislike Tony Blair and Gordon Brown have an odd understanding of economics
No, just a dislike of warmongering fundamentalists.
P-Jay - read much Hoffer?
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Eric_Hoffer
He should be required school reading for communities with high percentages of Brexshitters and fringe right and left wing voters.
That attitude leads to extremists or populists getting into power
How so?
When the elections come up, I look at what the candidates will do for my local area, first and foremost, then what their party overall wants to do, since they all appear to be spineless and whipped into toeing the party line on any divisive issue, then reflect that none of them actually represent me in any way, shape or form, then hold my nose and pick the least-worst option.
If you suggest starting my own party ye can get tae ****, as we both know that most voters are numpties, and the whole system is stacked to keep the two (ok, three, for what the lib-dems are worth) parties in the overall majority.
I'd be well up for an Iceland style revolution, but unfortunately, the majority don't seem quite ready yet...
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He ‘benefited’ shall we say by the little known Labour rule that allowed anyone to vote in Labour leadership contests for £3, which gave him a surge of votes from hard-left groups like Momentum and ironically Tory supporters who saw him as unelectable."
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Myth. He decisively won every vote class, and would have won by a landslide even without the £3 votes. 49.6% of members and 57.6 of affiliates.
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"Once in control of Labour he sacked any MP from the front bench"
Just absolutely untrue.
But good job on the diversion
He ‘benefited’ shall we say by the little known Labour rule
It wasnt little known. It was new but not little known. This can be spotted by reading all the right wing press at the time. Its also somewhat odd be trying to use lots of people voting for someone as an attack on them.
Once in control of Labour he sacked any MP from the front bench who didn’t agree with him
Unlike Saint Tony who filled his cabinet full of people who had different ideas? Although I would have to point out the minor detail that he didnt sack lots of people. Lots of "moderates" stated publicly they wouldnt serve in his cabinet but, given that, his first cabinet was fairly mixed. As a rule though, unless you are amazing weak like May, most people wont fill their cabinet with people whose main hobby is trying to put a knife in their backs.
With Jon Lansman he’s working toward ‘reselection’ for all Labour MPs,
This keeps being claimed but the evidence is slim. Although I am a bit confused exactly why allowing local party members the right to decide their candidate is so bad. What I would consider a power grab would be to remove the power from them and give them special shortlists. Remind you of anyone?
but the global banking crisis that originated in US was certainly their fault.
Or, as a radical idea both could be true. Although the market worship from Blair certainly didnt help when it came to the impact on the UK.
Those much vaunted three elections had a gradually dropping vote as all the traditional voters realised new labour didnt give a toss about them. Why so many ended up in the arms of UKIP and co.
How so?
When the elections come up, I look at what the candidates will do for my local area, first and foremost, then what their party overall wants to do, since they all appear to be spineless and whipped into toeing the party line on any divisive issue, then reflect that none of them actually represent me in any way, shape or form, then hold my nose and pick the least-worst option.
Does anyone think there's creedence in a breakaway Tory party? (But not UKIP)
There would be an irony if this ended up creating a split in both labour and cons so you had both a right and left wing pro and anti Europe to make it a 5 party system...
think of the coalitions.... think of the loons
The problem is the third way politics of new Labour have had their time and that time has passed.
Brexit is on significant part a result of New Labour failed policies which brought great wealth for a few, prosperity for a good number but left too many behind (the young, the poor, those outside London/se/metropolitan centres).
More third way, or some kind of reboot, will be seen as more of the status quo which has been challenged or rejected not just here but all over the advanced economies.
More third way, or some kind of reboot, will be seen as more of the status quo which has been challenged or rejected not just here but all over the advanced economies.
And the wave of populism sweeping those advanced economies is a reboot of the failed political experiments of the early 20th century.
Poor Theresa, can't even remain the subject of her own thread for more than 1 page.
There would be an irony if this ended up creating a split in both labour and cons so you had both a right and left wing pro and anti Europe to make it a 5 party system…
think of the coalitions…. think of the loons
You might then end up with minority hard left and right factions and a coalition of the middle ground, which would make a nice change. The Pragmatism Party perhaps?
Poor Theresa, can’t even remain the subject of her own thread for more than 1 page
To be fair she does have two identical threads running I started this one and the other one and there will probably be a few more in her honour for the next times she should but doesn't....i
Loinsgate film
Chuckles
Ooops did he accidentally fall over and land on his phone.
It certainly rounds off a fabulous weekend she has been having.
This question seems somewhat redundant now.
im resigned to her never resigning
PM for life!
It feels rather end of days for the Tories
the leadership contest is the like pigs wrestling in crap, down to the final 2 after a bit of vote rigging, a day later 1 MP suspended for grabbing a protestor, 1 MP recalled for forging expenses claims
Ultimately none of them have a plan to deliver brexit let alone make a success of it
Farage is breathing down their necks(eeeuugh beer, fags & scotch eggs no doubt), dictating which way they must bend
if Labour werent so conflicted over what they are there might be hope of a way out of this mess.
the nation just seems trapped in the Tory psychodrama now
I think I'm going to close this - there's already a lengthy Boris thread running, this feels like a duplicate now.
I think I’m going to close this –
But in a months time all those who posted on here to say she should will be back wishing to god she hadn't!