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Hi,
New baby in house 😃 and my wife wants to get rid of the (15 year old fully functional) plastic kettle for one with metal insides.
We now can't microwave food in plastic tupperware incase plastic compounds get into food. We are using glass instead.
My questions are
1) Is it likely plastic compounds are getting out of the kettle into water?
2) If chemical compounds are getting into water, are they doing any harm to my family?
I've had a Google and get people with no science background alarmed by the idea of chemicals, proper science stuff behind pay walls, proper science stuff I can't understand and vague statements from government I can't interpret.
I did a biochemistry degree 20 years ago, but I can't work out the statistics and harm threshold. My wife is a phiso, she is suspicious of Chemicals in plastics, chemicals in suncream and chemicals in other stuff
We are buying a metal kettle tomorrow to keep the peace in the house whatever the advice. I just can't work out if plastic leaching is actually doing any harm.
Thanks!
Not sure about the chemicals but our metal kettle is a lot noisier than the plastic one we had. Coffee taste the same though
Definitely, based on what read before getting rid of my plastic kettle. Microplastics leaching into your tea.
Obviously they’re everywhere, but better to reduce it where it’s easy to.
Something else to add to shopping criteria- kettle volume!
There are hundreds of different types of 'plastic', as there are hundreds of different types of metal. Some are not suitable to make kettles out of.
Potassium, for example, would be an inappropriate metal to use to make a kettle.
shopping criteria- kettle volume!
Keep volume as low as possible, kettles use a crazy amount of electricity (2400 - 3000w+ in many cases).
So only boil 3 cups worth of water for 3 cups, or 1 cups worth of water if you only want one cup.
People who fill a kettle up with 2 litres of water to make one cup of coffee should be burned alive.
Yep, I've set fire to my jacket with potassium. I'm a science teacher.
I squashed a lump inside a paper towel, it generated enough hydrogen to fire the lump about a meter. I watched my jacket burn thinking, well probably shouldn't put any more water on that 🙄.
Would/ could plastics that are unsuitable for kettles ( because of microplastic/ plastic leaching) be in my 15 year old kettle? Would they do any harm if they are leaching out?
Yep my previous kettle before I met my wife was very easy to fill accurately for 1 or 2 cups of tea.
Too ugly for my wife when I moved in
Yes, but because plastic kettles are shit rather than any pseudoscience your partner has culled from Mumsnet.
Anyone "alarmed by the idea of chemicals" should probably step away from the Internet, what does they suppose steel is made of?
Sensible answer...
If it's 15 years old, the plasic might have BPA in it.
So just buy a new kettle from a reputable retailer (not wish.com) -20-30 quid should be plenty. Preferably one that matches the rest of the kitchen colour scheme to keep the mrs happy, and if it has a brushed metal appearence, sounds like all the better.
our metal kettle is a lot noisier than the plastic one we had.
Quick boil and quiet boil are different criteria. I've had both, but never in the same product.
Too ugly for my wife when I moved in
You'd think she'd have noticed earli... oh, the kettle, right.
I have no problem using a plastic kettle.
If you kettle has been used for years, any leaching (assuming it actually does happen, which I doubt) would be exponentially less than when it was brand new and boiled for the first time.
Still, if your wife is worried about it, donate it to someone poor and get a nice metal kettle. Shit like that isn't worth getting into a fight about when you're stressed out dealing with a new baby.
Should I bin my plastic kettle for a metal one?
Yes. Heat and plastic? Didn't you study science before? Worst still who manufactured the plastic?
General rule of thumb for me to avoid in my cooking utensils or cookware etc are: Plastic parts and aluminum or some non-stick chemical plastic coating like Teflon whatever.
Go for kettle that is made of glass or stainless steel (304 or 18/10 grade).
For all your cookware etc you should cook with stainless steel (304, 18/10 minimum grade but 18/8 is fine too but may rust), carbon steel (careful of those from certain part of the world as they could be using recycled steel not fit for cookware), cast iron (non-Chinese please as it is difficult to confirm if their purity is good enough without aluminium mixture. Safe bet is Lodge brand Made in USA), clay (certain clay from S.America avoid) or wood (wooden bowl, spoon etc)
With the amount of chemical in our daily life and if you are unlucky, all it needs is a trigger and life will be a roulette.
Don't go cheap and pay with your health. A good quality cookware will last you for generations.
p/s: Where are all those Sheffield steel or iron manufactures when you need them.
pp/s: Recently I saw a youtube clip where the traditional clay chicken is wrapped with plastic and aluminum foil then backed in high temperature. The customers loved them ... yummy and the juice is so tasty. I wonder how much toxic chemical can their body sustain. The real traditional clay chicken is wrapped with layers of lotus leaf and then cover with clay then bake in high temperature. Nowadays, the inner most layer is wrapped in aluminum and the next layer plastic and finally clay. Yummy, yum, yum ...
Hitler used a metal kettle. Stalin did too. Mine is plastic. So is that nice vet’s off the telly. Just pick a side.
Didn’t you study science before?
I'd certainly trust your knowledge of cookware over your knowledge of science.
Hitler used a metal kettle. Stalin did too. Mine is plastic. So is that nice vet’s off the telly. Just pick a side.
If you feel you are lucky then stick with plastic.
Recently I saw a youtube clip where the traditional clay chicken is wrapped with plastic and aluminum foil then backed in high temperature.
A kettle is limited to 100 degrees as that's the boiling point of water. Wrapping food in plastic and baking it in an oven will reach a much higher temperature. I have no problem using a plastic kettle. I would not bake plastic in an oven at high temperature. Two completely different things. Same goes with non-stick frying pans - they get extremely hot if you're not careful and that will damage the non-stick surface.
Depending on whether you think more humans are a good idea or not, it may be a good idea to ditch plastics wherever possible.
We haven't used plastic for any form of cooking for years... my kids aren't old enough for us to know if it's worked yet.
Endocrine disrupting chemicals are everywhere, but why not avoid them where possible?
A kettle is limited to 100 degrees as that’s the boiling point of water.
Yes, limited to boiling point but who manufacture the plastic?
Same goes with non-stick frying pans – they get extremely hot if you’re not careful and that will damage the non-stick surface.
True. No matter how tough the coating is it will wear out.
who manufacture the plastic?
It doesn't really matter who made it, what matters is what the chemical composition is. If you buy an electric kettle from a reputable brand, the plastic will be perfectly fine at 100 degrees.
Stainless steel usually contains nickel and chromium. Nickel can cause health problems, especially if you cook acidic foods. The idea that plastic is bad and metal is good is too simplistic. For a kettle, a suitable plastic will be fine.
Funny Annecdote..
This is an actual conversation I had with a friend who is an armchair scientist..
Your new exterior fibre box is made of plastic? The sun will kill it in 2 years and it will drop to bits.
Hmm.. I'm pretty sure my dustbin is made of plastic and it's a lot older than that.
People don't seem to understand that 'plastic' is a blanket term that covers many different types of material.
If you buy an electric kettle from a reputable brand, the plastic will be perfectly fine at 100 degrees.
True but most are outsource to other manufacturers. I don't trust their quality control because it's basically impossible to test each and every raw materials or the final product.
Stainless steel usually contains nickel and chromium. Nickel can cause health problems, especially if you cook acidic foods.
True, acidic foods is a problem with all metal products hence the higher grade of stainless steel is prefer. Same with carbon steel as the acidic food reacts with the metal.
Aluminium pot/pan/wok with acidic recipe is to be avoided at all cost for me.
People don’t seem to understand that ‘plastic’ is a blanket term that covers many different types of material.
Yes, but I still don't trust the source or the outsource manufacturers.
A kettle is limited to 100 degrees as that’s the boiling point of water. Wrapping food in plastic and baking it in an oven will reach a much higher temperature.<br /><br />
True, but you only bake with plastic in the oven if it’s a ready meal, and the container is used once, you boil a kettle thousands of times and plastic does degrade with age. <br /><br />
you boil a kettle thousands of times and plastic does degrade with age
Any leaching will be highest when the kettle is new and will decrease the more it is boiled.
I’d be more concerned about the microplastics released every time it’s boiled, I read a report a few years back from trinity college Dublin that up to 10m particles of plastic can be released every time you boil a kettle and the older the kettle the more microplastics are released. <br /><br />
Common sense tells me to use stainless steel or glass.
Okay, I'm not a materials scientist, and I don't have a degree in chemistry so I'll say that.
I will hazard to say it really depends on the type of plastic and also it depends on the type of metal.
So if your kettle is 20yo and looking yellow when it used to be white, probably time for a replacement. Otherwise I wouldn't be too concerned as long as it's a new model and conforms to modern EU standards.
Common sense tells me to use stainless steel or glass.
No it doesn't. A half-remembered report of unverifiable robustness from a few years back is what is telling you to do that.
You might well be correct, I have no idea. But be honest, "common sense" has no bearing here, that's just an excuse for an opinion. I read a report from Hols half an hour ago saying exactly the opposite.
Definitely, based on what read before getting rid of my plastic kettle. Microplastics leaching into your tea.
I think you need to research:
What are micro plastics
What is leaching
It will be alot more useful that the nonsense you picked up last time.
Sledge hammer to crack a nut and all that, but an instant boiling water tap? (Can thoroughly recommend the Qettle!)
Once the new kettle is in place, ask her what she thinks they put in the water...
Still, if your wife is worried about it, donate it to someone poor and get a nice metal kettle. Shit like that isn’t worth getting into a fight about when you’re stressed out dealing with a new baby.
Best advice on this thread.
Do what your wife says and buy the new kettle. Although if she's worried about micro-plastics and "forever" chemicals, its already too late for that, if they were in her bloodstream (likely) they're already in baby's
I think they're in everything now already. Thanks DuPont. .
Dr Shanna Swan has researched and written books on this stuff. It makes fairly grim reading.
She's appeared on Joe Rogan though, so Cougar will no doubt be along shortly to screech about her being pseudoscience 🙄
Me, I don't worry about it too much. We're bombarded with chemicals from every angle, avoiding all the bad stuff is just too much to think about. My kettle is plastic.
Yes Cougar, I know the coffeepot I'm about to use is a chemical as is the coffee it produces. I think you know that the chemicals the op s wife is concerned about are a different thing.
Even if it's purely placebo, change the kettle. Low level stressing about forever chemicals every time it's used is ultimately likely to be more damaging to health than the phthalates or whatever may be in the tea produced.
Holiday house I went to this year had a kettle with different boiling temperature control, I'd use the opportunity to get one of those because it'll save money (I'll probably get really angry at the cost of them if I ever found one on the internet)
I’ve had a Google and get people with no science background alarmed by the idea of chemicals
And so you asked here instead… ?
Yes.
I was hoping someone could point me towards an actual answer.
I will be buying a steel one tomorrow anyway, for reasons.
Didn’t you study science before?
But I'm suspecting you didn't 😉
As above - beyond any irrational "science", keep her sweet in a high pressure life point. Just make sure you buy something that's likely to last for environmental reasons. Plastics get a bad rep, based on both the the single use factor disparaging the whole industry in the public's eyes and latterly the micro plastics issue. But the less populist soundbite environmental science is still very pro plastic because the energy and hydro carbon use in their manufacture is much less than steel/aluminium equivalents. So your steel kettle really needs to last. I'm not sure if there is a kettle equivalent to the dualit toaster where every component is available and user replaceable. Even Dulait kettles.
I was hoping someone could point me towards an actual answer.
And you got pointed to multiple answers. Just pick the one that makes you happy and ignore the others.
different boiling temperature control
Wait until you learn how a toaster works.. it will blow you mind!
Just wait until she discovers that most teething toys are made of plastic.
In respect to the OP...
I was hoping someone could point me towards an actual answer.
Buy a kettle from argos/tesco etc, or if you are posh, John Lewis.
They are all the same aside from asthetics.
If you are proper skint, get one from B&M.
DO NOT get one from facebook/wish/eBay/aliexpress.
I hope this has clarified the situation.
tall_martin
Full Member
I’ve had a Google and get people with no science background alarmed by the idea of chemicals
And so you asked here instead… ?
Yes.
I was hoping someone could point me towards an actual answer.
That's the great thing about ST, amongst all the bickering, there are actual scientists, and an awareness of the work of scientists out there who may have the answers to a genuine question.
Joe Rogan is basically a quak, though, to be fair.
I don't think you understand what a quack is..
if your wife is worried about it, donate it to someone poor and get a nice metal kettle.
Because poor people are so pleased just to have a cup of tea they don't even mind that microplastics may or may not be "leaching into their tea".
Other than that, joshvegas has some good advice:
you need to research:
What are micro plastics
What is leaching
I don’t think you understand what a quack is..
Oh I do... the characteristic harsh sound made by a duck.
There is some real science behind this, assuming you accept the 'Zoe project' as real science. I can't find the article or blog post, but nothing gets heated in the microwave in plastic in our house anymore. This is second hand from the OH who reads the Tim Spector blog/Zoe stuff:
Is this OP's first baby. I can guarantee you'll be doing stuff very differently come number two child.
I wouldn't worry. Maybe ditch the 15 year old kettle for a better one.
First baby, drops dummy you then run it through the steam steriliser (also made of plastic). Baby two drops dummy, you pick up, wipe off fluff and stick back in baby's mouth.
It seems to me that both plastic and metal are problematic. Perhaps I should make one out of wood?
I would be worrying about MP contamination in drinking water from your tap and also from any bottled water you buy.
I don’t think you understand what a quack is..
I wouldn't call Joe Rogan a quack, although Having a conversation about who Rogan really is and admitting that his brand of conversation, which at times promotes some pretty dangerous conspiracy theories, cultural intolerance and blatant racism, is probably looong overdue. He attracts millions of listeners and advertisers after all. He's used of the n-word, There's the time Rogan deliberately misgendered a trans MMA fighter. He’s discouraged people from getting the Covid-19 vaccine, hosted guests who question basic science and given a platform to climate scepticism from Jordan Peterson, all hiding under the usual disingenuous disclaimer "I'm just asking questions"
I'm pretty sure the Alt-right think (probably correctly) that he's one of theirs.
You could get a non-electric metal kettle for proper STW environmental credentials.
Caesium seems a good choice.*
May be single use though...🤔
I think I saw a vid on YT years ago where somebody threw a lump of caesium into a river. Not sure how they held it to throw it though.
Creaking door science credentials -
O level physics and chemistry grade C
O level biology grade B
IANAS
* May cause injury, especially when bought from Temu (other low-quality shifters of $h!t are available)
Unless you make them from slices of WW1 warship dredged from the pentland firth any steel pot or kettle will be radioactive 🙂
It seems to me that both plastic and metal are problematic. Perhaps I should make one out of wood?
Laburnum maybe, or Yew.
Just wait until she discovers that most teething toys are made of plastic.
Or how much is offgassing from the new crib, cot mattress, new paint in the babies room, carpets, new car etc. Most new born babies are exposed to more pollution indoors than if they were outdoors on a busy city street apparently...
If you have an induction hob get a stove top kettle. That's what I plan to do when our (stainless steel) kettle finally dies.
If you have an induction hob get a stove top kettle.
Every time one of my North American rellys comes over, they spend an in-ordinate amount of time lusting over a 240V kettle, it's weird if I'm honest. If there's one positive that the UK can take to it's death-bed when we're weighed up as a nation is that we didn't **** about when it came to boiling some water for a hot drink.
The key environmental issue with a kettle will be longevity so I'd recommend picking the one you both like best and putting the (likely now slightly battered and stained) kettle either into the loft as a spare or into the shed/garage for diy jobs and a cup of tea in peace once new bairn becomes a 2 year old.
Personally I think that assuming the kettle is from a regular manufacturer (not wish, ali express, etc.) then the micro plastics issue will likely be tiny.
Just don't buy those posh 'nylon mesh bag' teabags if you have any concerns about microplastics. Stick to normal teabags or loose leaf tea.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49845940
Short version: buy a new kettle that you both like 🙂
Do you think they don't have electric kettles in America because of their lower voltages?
Edit: should have used google
Unless you make them from slices of WW1 warship dredged from the pentland firth any steel pot or kettle will be radioactive 🙂
While true, I'm absolutely sure I don't need to lose any sleep over that amount of radiation 😃
@chaos thanks, that's genuinely helpfull 😃
@creakingdoor
If you want to see some very enthusiastic chemists get very disappointed the university of Nottingham tried dumping caesium into water with very pedestrian results the first time they tried.
@mattoutandabout
Yes, the nursery still smells of new carpet. It that the window open for 3 weeks. Maybe we should have forked out all the cash for a pure wool carpet.
It's child 2.
Just wait until she discovers that most teething toys are made of plastic.
Yes, I might be forging some birch twigs fresh from the forest. ( I hope I'm joking).
@WorldClassAccident
Free Member
It seems to me that both plastic and metal are problematic. Perhaps I should make one out of wood?
Maybe I should just heat everything on an open wood fire at the back in of the cave ☺️
The pipe conferring water into your house will be made of plastic.
Thats if its not lead.
Maybe you are better off digging your own well.
Yes Cougar, I know the coffeepot I’m about to use is a chemical as is the coffee it produces. I think you know that the chemicals the op s wife is concerned about are a different thing.
Point is, when someone has "concerns" do we address that by looking into those concerns and either learning something ourselves if they turn out to be correct or explaining why those concerns are unfounded, or do we pander to whatever hysterical twaddle takes their fancy?
I grant you though, this specific case may be an outlier for the sake of a kettle.
FWIW, our ‘Russell Hobbs 20460 Quiet Boil Kettle, Brushed Stainless Steel’ is quiet, metal and pretty quick to boil (at least compared to it’s predecessor) so may tick your wife’s boxes.
Exactly what I have. It's perfect (and I have gone through many crap kettles).
Bloody hell. Child 2 and still believing this crap. Wait till its vaping in 16 years (if lucky).
@wzzzz
Yep. I quite like drinking chemicaly treated water that is certainly not going to give me something horrible.
My folks had the lead pipes replaced when I was a kid. I always what the effect was on my grandparents. Both my dad's parents were one of 14. They were almost all killed by smoking related cancers.
Best not mention the microplastics already in the water from your tap, or the plastic used in many brands of tea bag……
had a kettle with different boiling temperature control
There is only one boiling temperature. 100C
There is only one boiling temperature. 100C
Try telling that to water up a mountain 🙂
Pendant alert. We know that he meant switch off at a certain pre determined temperature.
Anyway, the leaching of micro plastic will be long over , if it ever existed.
Don't buy a metal kettle. The kid will more likely burn itself in a couple of years as metal has a much high emissivity than plastic. So although both surfaces will appear to be the same temperature, the metal will transfer more heat faster than you can move your hand away.
I had a welt across the back of my hand as the metal kettle twisted out of my grip and stopped against my hand.
Just buy a Russell Hobbs filter kettle. It will make nicer tea and coffee
@singketrackmind
Yes that does concern me.
Our 4 year old is now tall enough to get stuff from the work top. I guess that's a concern for a few years down the line
Do "metal" kettles have bare metal walls, then - or might they have some sort of coating anyway ?
... as someone with a degree in materials science I very much enjoy reading these threads...
Try telling that to water up a mountain 🙂
Or any gas at let's say at room temperature.