You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
enfht - Member
Zombie apocalypse
What's wrong with you?
Looks like Germany may be next ... or Norway or Sweden.
But Germany being Germany if they start to take action it will be done in a highly precision way.
The machine will wake up again.
BBC confirmed calais pics are old.
Chewkw, WTF are you on about.
thisisnotaspoon - MemberChewkw, WTF are you on about.
Germany with it's "opened boarder" letting everyone in without checking means some of the infiltrators would have landed already.
If they act on Germany like they have done in France, the retaliation from the German will be far more organise and precise to the point of machine like, unlike France with their laid-back incompetent attitude until things are too late.
The other possible locations/countries that will face the same event will be Norway or Sweden.
Jesus christ people... Oh good a terrorist attack, an opportunity to be an arsehole on the internet. This place can make you sick sometimes.
chewkw -the charlie hebdo gunmen grew up in france, the 7/7 bombers were from bradford, assuming that these guys just arrived from syria at this point is ridiculous, without knowing any facts
kimbers - Memberchewkw youre talking bollox the charlie hebdo gunmen grew up in france, the 7/7 bombers were from bradford, assuming that these guys just arrived from syria at this point is ridiculous
Ya, it's just make easier to hide amongst the community.
I just cannot comprehend how you arrive at a mindset where you can indiscriminately murder innocent people on this scale. It just defies all my conceptions of what it means to be human, with all the complex emotions that entails.
What is becoming increasingly apparent is that this type of thing is here to stay. It's the next Cold War. That is now the scale of it. Only with the gloves off. What's needed is for people to stand up for universal human values. And those universal values are shared by all religions. Now really isn't the time to be unthinkingly blaming one.
For whatever reasons, and God knows western foreign policy hasn't helped, we now have a large scale nihilistic death cult, which is a lot more powerful than our media and government would have us believe, and is more than capable of atrocities like this, and seems utterly determined to repeat it, ratcheting it up all the time.
If this stresses anything, it's the need to face up to this with our shared humanity.
binners - Member
For whatever reasons, and God knows western foreign policy hasn't helped, ...
Nothing to do with your western foreign policy coz they just don't like you and they want to rule over you.
Like I said in other thread a while back ... how can a non-believer solve the problem of believer?
Deciding to close all universities and colleges tomorrow is very telling indeed. France must face up to some very uncomfortable truths.
Plenty of people using this as an opportunity to air political views
Some of the things on Facebook are unbelievable
It's a truly awful, horrific situation. Innocent, unarmed people, going about their business on a Friday night murdered. The Bacalat sounds, well, words don't seem enough to express how horrendous that must have been.
I'm sad, frustrated and angry at the same time
People really are despicable
Thoughts will be with those poor people for quite some time
I had planned to be there today, but the dates changed 2 weeks ago
just switched on the news and seen the breaking news about this 🙁
my thoughts to all the people of paris.
Deciding to close all universities and colleges tomorrow is very telling indeed.
It's only "very telling" in that they're closing all state controlled public places.
I just hope we don't see a rage filled race -hate backlash against anyone who has a slightly different skin tone .
Some people might use the opportunity to insight violence in the name of revenge . Unfortunatly these type of people are too stupid to differentiate and innocent , nice, kind people might suffer .
The poor refugeees fleeing Syria may also find their route harder as a backlash from 'anyone' from 'over there' are basically 'all the same' , which they cleary are not , but if you throw wild accusations
around and shout loud enough it only takes a few knuckle heads to listen and take action.
I just dont get it at all. Its only a people few at the top , telling the impressionable younger ones lies and mistruths that change people into angry killers who are manipulated to do this type of thing .
Expect DC to spin this up and see his smug face all over the BBeeb offering support and condolances to all .
Must be like being in a WW2 battle with that number of wounded and dead in the space of an hour or so. The EMS must have been overwhelmed and traumatised from the sheer scale of casualties.
Just beyond belief how these creatures could do this! 100 hostages shot dead! FFS!!
Truly awful.
Cowardly shitbags.
Constantly drawn to the news again formally the wrong reason, How long will it be before this happens in UK streets, shocked beyond belief
Truly terrible, hope everyone's loved ones are safe and sound...
Blimey Hugh Schofield's report.
A very, very sad day.
Hearing a Bataclan survivor saying the gunmen were very calm & quiet yet would randomly just shoot other victims when they felt like it was quite sickening. I cannot imagine what takes a human being to that place.
A very, very sad day.
Really hoping that the response to this doesn't involve doing something stupid and rash.
It is time for muslims and muslim countries to condemn this IS nonsense and unit to close it down - Saudi Arabia for one - it can't be down to western countries only as act as then this will never stop.
Catching up with the coverage now. Me and my two kids were at a gig in Newcastle last night enjoying ourselves, singing along, jumping up and down and being daft. I can't quite get my head around how that same experience just turned into instant horror for those poor folk in Paris, what a wasteful ****ed up thing to happen, I feel sick.
my condolences to all the families.
Its not about race or skin colour or any other accusasions of prejudice that are used to shut down sensiible discusion. We cannot have two types of one religion, one peaceful and untouchable beyond critiscm and the other uncomprimising hate filled and murderous and allow with same people to participate in both sides and step between them for protection.
I'm not religous so the word doesnt mean anything to me, a cruel ideology is just that.
Shocking.
Couple of thoughts:
This is a lot less likely to happen in the UK as its a lot harder to get hold of automatic weapons etc.
What is the end game with IS? Saudi are doing nothing, Iran & Iraq similarly quiet. Perhaps for another thread, but how will this end?
Stuff like this I am generally a bit numb too, I am not saying that proudly by the way, but last night has got to me. I was at an Eagles of Death Metal gig last week, perhaps it just makes it all so real, or perhaps it is something else. Either way...horrific
I do hope this means we continue to stay out of Syria although I suspect DC will see it as justification to lobby to go in. We have many politically unstable countries on Europe's borders, wading in after things like this just guarantees the next attack.
We need to let these societies mature at their own speed, every time we wade in we disrupt that process. It was only 70 years ago we Europeans were the politically unstable ones. We managed to come out the other side of it and found the EU.
Time to really think about the cohesiveness of our society, how can we integrate the many different cultures already in Europe without alienating people. People with comfortable lifestyles who feel part of a country are a lot less likely to want to destroy it.
The death toll in these attacks is truly scary, suggest very clam meticulous planning and execution, this is no spur of the moment madman randomly firing into crowds.
Couple of thoughts:
This is a lot less likely to happen in the UK as its a lot harder to get hold of automatic weapons etc.
I wouldn't believe that for a minute. We are not talking about people who obtain these things legitimately!
the UK... its a lot harder to get hold of automatic weapons etc.
History would suggest that it is true, although that is no reason for complacency. 'Harder' is not 'impossible'.I wouldn't believe that for a minute. We are not talking about people who obtain these things legitimately!
As someone elsewhere said, the perpetrators of these acts are the same people that the Syrian refugees are fleeing from. Yet it is the refugees who will suffer consequences.
Yet it is the refugees who will suffer consequences.
they are mostly not refugees - if they were they would be staying at the nearest safe haven, but most of them have a mission to get to a specific country - making them migrants taking advantage of their situation as they will not be going back to Syria if peace is restored.
You only have to listen to their interviews on the news, complaining about border controls at countries and saying that they don't want to stay in that country, they want to go to a different one.
I would think they can get hold of pretty much anything they need to amount an attack here infact they probably already have it, they seem well organised and resourseful if the news is anything to go by.
TurnerGuy - Member - Block User
It is time for muslims and muslim countries to condemn this IS nonsense and unit to close it down - Saudi Arabia for one - it can't be down to western countries only as act as then this will never stop.
The vast majority of people fighting ISIS on the ground are Muslim FFS.
From the coverage I have seen no-one has claimed responsibility so we do not know who the perpetrators are. Now is a time for calm thinking, evidence gathering and establishing facts before anyone takes any sort of action in response.
It is horrific but knee jerk reactions will likely result in further unnecessary casualties.
Thoughts to all those that have been affected by these atrocities.
The vast majority of people fighting ISIS on the ground are Muslim FFS
Are any of them state armies? I'm guessing a lot are state sponsored?
We have family in Paris - my girlfriends cousin was held in a bar all night as they were only two streets away from one of the attacks. I just can't fathom why someone would do this, maybe its my naivety and insular upbringing that means that I've never felt the anger or hatred that this group of individuals clearly do, but to open fire on innocent people like they have is beyond comprehension.
My worry is that those in power see this as an opportunity to launch attacks on groups as an act of retaliation. I'm of the opinion that there is no real solution to this. Anyone that is willing to kill innocents, blow themselves and others up isn't the sort to reason with others. Where ever they're from, they're extremists and extremists tend to have extremist demands and objectives. Wading in launching attacks on various groups or worse - using it as an excuse (9/11 anyone?) - to me isn't the solution. Unfortunately I'm not sure what is. Which sadly means we haven't seen the last of them.
Utterly stunned at some of the posts on here. Ehfnt or whatever your name is - have a word with yourself. You're almost coming across as gloating.
Paris is a beautiful city. My thoughts are with all those affected by this horrible event
they are mostly not refugees - if they were they would be staying at the nearest safe haven
What's the nearest safe haven to Syria?
Is it the country with the most refugees in the world?
they are mostly not refugees - if they were they would be staying at the nearest safe haven, but most of them have a mission to get to a specific country - making them migrants taking advantage of their situation as they will not be going back to Syria if peace is restored.
clearly they are refugees* and the choice of where you flee to is not what defines you as a refugee but what you have to flee from. Whether you will return or not has no bearing on whether you are a refugee but seeing as you are fleeing form persecution the point, you missed, is that its not safe for them to return hence they are a refugee.
* IMHO they are technically IDP - Internally displaced persons- but we use the word refugee instead for some reason
When the Charlie H thing kicked off, the Morden Amadhiyya mosque (past which, I cycle on my commute) had a police car parked outside and also a group of handy - looking young guys, I assume from the mosque itself, to prevent any nonsense. Ironically, the biggest worry this slice of the Muslim religion has of attack by unfriendly elements is from the rest of Islam. Generalisations are not helpful and will just hinder any useful outcome. Mass quietude on the knee reflex response please, people.
French president states it was an act of war by IS!!! Please let him have the facts to back this up as that is a very scary statement 😥
And all this goes back to the hunt for WMD's that did not exist.
Sadam Gadafi and Assad are beginning to look like the good guys.
Assad has killed 5x as many civilians as ISIS - he's certainly not a good guy. There's very few good guys in this, only innocents trapped in the middle.
I cannot imagine what takes a human being to that place
Nor me but I imagine they're either mad, or they think they're doing it for some greater good. The RAF would have blown up a concert full of civilian German Factory workers in WW2 for the greater good so the logic that civilians are a worthwhile target for the greater good should be comprehensable to us.
Horrific events, my thoughts FWIW are with the victims and the families of the victims. Also let's not forget the 100 or so who are maimed, blinded etc.
I do hope this means we continue to stay out of Syria although I suspect DC will see it as justification to lobby to go in.
I think we can be sure he will milk it for whatever political advantage he can. On Newsnight last night, while people were still being killed, a Tory MP was using the opportunity to push the case for the snooper's charter. Scum will be scum.
Sadam, Qadafi and Assad were / are anything but good guys. That said, to try to remove them with such limited thought given to the post-great leader country was <lost for words> insane? A horrific misjudgment? Naive in the extreme? Criminal?
What a mess.
Quote!
I think we can be sure he will milk it for whatever political advantage he can. On Newsnight last night, while people were still being killed, a Tory MP was using the opportunity to push the case for the snooper's charter. Scum will be scum.
I agree there are times and places, but that said, the solutions to all these interlinked problems and issues will be political, and as such politicians will be putting forward arguments for the solutions they think best. This kind of debate is necessary.
I think we can be sure he will milk it for whatever political advantage he can. On Newsnight last night, while people were still being killed, a Tory MP was using the opportunity to push the case for the snooper's charter. Scum will be scum.
It's a reasonable point. If for example there were a couple of similar attacks in the UK and it was shown that better "snooping" powers would have possibly have prevented them where is the balance to be placed between privacy and terrorism prevention?
typical lefty attitude where someone they disagree with is scum rather than just holding a different opinion. I disagree with many politicians but in general accept their views are honestly held if mistaken.Scum will be scum
On Newsnight last night, while people were still being killed, a Tory MP was using the opportunity to push the case for the snooper's charter. Scum will be scum.
You ask a member of Parliament on to a news program in the middle of a terrorist disaster. They are not a member of the emergency services, let alone a member of the French emergency services. They will have nothing noteworthy to add to the conversation about what is happening on the ground. They could bleat on about had dreadful it is, but I have eyes and can see that for myself. The only thing they can add to the discussion is what the UK can do to support the French or what we can do to prevent the same thing happening here.
Rightly or wrongly many people feel the security services having access to our online data will help prevent this kind of thing happening. The tin foil hat brigade will think it's the beginning of the end and as someone who is not high up in the security services I can't tell you how useful it is either. Either way the 'snoopers charter' is hardly an irrelevant discussion topic when interviewing a member of parliament in the midst of a terrorist atrocity. If it offends you I suggest you blame the BBC for their choice of interviewee rather than the interviewees response.
yes I always admire the way you are polite on here to the lefties - I mean typical lefty is just brimming with respect ...face palm
You ask a member of Parliament on to a news program in the middle of a terrorist disaster.
If it offends you I suggest you blame the BBC for their choice of interviewee rather than the interviewees response.
I don't think that the BBC had advance knowledge that the attack was going to be taking place, so they hardly chose the interviewee did they?
I don't think that the BBC had advance knowledge that the attack was going to be taking place, so they hardly chose the interviewee did they?
In the middle of a terrorist attack it would be perfectly reasonable to bump the guest if they were not appropriate and return to live broadcast of the scene or pull in specialists. Has been done in the past with Newsnight.
I was thinking back to the optimism of 1989 and the fall of the Berlin Wall.
I doubt many then would have thought things like this would be happening 26 years later.
France and the rest of Europe are going to end up as security states after promoting open border policies for 30 years.
For whatever reason to boost their image, political influence, budget or manpower requirements or just to express their sometimes stupid and pathetic views, tragedies like this bring them all out of the woodwork.Politicians, media types, forum internt warriors and so called experts
But one thing is usually forgotten quite fast, all those who have lost a freind relative,partner or parent, and also those emergency services that need to pick up the pieces in a very professional way, without complaint or being allowed access to the general media to vent their feelings at what they saw, and what they had to do.
RIP, fellow people, many of us are thinking of you and everyone you have left behind.
Hope its not linked in anyway but Gatwick terminal being evacuated
Sussex police dealing with suspicious package 🙁
Are any of them state armies?
The Iraqi and Syrian armies. Supported by Iran, Jordan and Lebanon/Hezbollah.
It's a reasonable point. If for example there were a couple of similar attacks in the UK and it was shown that better "snooping" powers would have possibly have prevented them where is the balance to be placed between privacy and terrorism prevention?
It is a reasonable point to be made at an appropriate time and place. Not while blood is still being spilled.
I see Farage and his supporters are out in force on social media
I've even seen Enoch Powell quotes being banded around
Toads everywhere
People are dead and dying, how people can be thinking of anything else is beyond me
This is what really gripes me.
The state will use this to promote its credentials of protector of the people, meaning even more security intrusions.
But the state is responsible for this mess, not least through a series of utterly stupid foreign policy interventions.
War made the state and the state made war.
The Iraqi and Syrian armies. Supported by Iran, Jordan and Lebanon/Hezbollah.
It is Saudi that needs to join in the support as this is where a lot of the support for IS and fundamentalist ideas come from. The other states have slightly different religious views and so their views mean nothing to IS.
We could also do with the Chilcot report coming out and Blair being done for war crimes...
[Saudi needs to lend] support as this is where a lot of the support for IS and fundamentalist ideas come from. The other states have slightly different religious views and so their views mean nothing to IS.
You have it totally backwards. Your real hardcore jihadi despises the Saudi regime as a bunch of Yank-fellating degenerate sellout scumbags. This is why IS (acolytes) have attacked Saudi targets and why the Saudi state is (ineffectually) training anti-IS forces. Saudi involvement in the fight against IS would not win hearts or minds.
In any case, Saudi Arabia is too busy destroying Yemen to get very Involved in Syria. And do we want the Saudi regime to get involved in solving Islamic militancy around the world? Naah
My thoughts are with the people of France, more particularly the people of Paris and especially those innocents killed and wounded as well as those bereaved by this atrocity.
As many other have said, I find these actions incomprehensible. It is an emotional response on my part but human conduct seems to be regressing, becoming more barbaric and feral.
I've had La Marseillaise running around my head all morning and these apposite words in particular:
Allons les enfants de la Patrie ... contre nous de la tyrannie ... C'est nous qu'on ose méditer ... De rendre à l'antique esclavage
Aux armes, citoyens...
I see Newt Gingrich believes the answer is more guns - ****ing bell-end apologist for the gun lobby/NRA
[url= http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/11/twitter-paris-attacks ]Newt Gingrich and his call to arm everyone[/url]
To be fair to Newt Gingrich, he thinks the answer to absolutely everything, including global warming, which doesn't actually exist, is 'more guns'
I'll give him this... the man's consistent
On a serious note, as adults we become kind of hardened, and slightly desensitised to this kind of thing, and to some degree it loses its desired impact. We're still horrified, but are we scared? Probably not really, on a personal level
However... this is the first terrorist atrocity that my 11 year old has been old enough to really comprehend. I've just had her really upset, snuggled up to me, saying 'daddy, I'm scared. This won't happen here, will it?'
So we've sat the 2 of them down over lunch (her sister is 8), and explained to them how its not going to happen here, and that they're perfectly safe, and they shouldn't worry. But it makes you realise that its called terrorism for a reason. And it works. Its not just the people it impacts directly. Its the fear and division it spreads though wider society
explained to them how its not going to happen here,
Can you explain that to me as well please?
Just seen on the news someone arrested at Gatwick trying to leave a suspicious package in one of the terminals...
No confirmation as to whether it's a bomb, it wouldn't surprise me though
War made the state and the state made war.
So we're to blame for all of this? Rather simplistic - look around the world and it's a mess everywhere. Every nation has it's own ideals - and in various ways we are prepared to fight for them. Would you be prepared to live under Sharia Law, in a state where women are oppressed, gay men and women are killed? I wouldn't.
I don't think there is an answer to this - for the next few decades this will be just the way it is. It seems every 'solution' has consequences.
blimey that footage from behind the bataclan is hard viewing
explained to them how its not going to happen here,Can you explain that to me as well please?
Its not that I believe it won't happen. But as a small town in East Lancashire. I suspect we're not high on the ISIS hit list. Central London is probably as big a target as Paris though.
Theres that, and not wanting my daughters scared witless by hysterical tabloid nonsense when statistically they're about as likely to be the victims of terrorism, as they are from falling grand piano's
EDIT: She's jus been in crying gain, saying she's still scared. Do you fancy coming round and informing her how [b]WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!! PANIIIIIIIIIIIIIC!!!!!!!!![/b]
🙄
Central London is probably as big a target as Paris though.
I'm not sure why they go for harder guarded targets like London and Paris - they could go to somewhere like Derby in a few weeks during Xmas shopping, walk into the shopping centre unhindered and cause as many or more casualties.
So what will happen next? The elephant in the room is perhaps too horrifically ugly to talk about, but Hollande already says that France is "at war" and the noises being made by the Russian Foreign Minister (in Vienna on Monday for talks) seem to be a step in a worrying direction. I feel we have been living between the wars and this pause is now coming to an end.
Its not that I believe it won't happen. But as a small town in East Lancashire. I suspect we're not high on the ISIS hit list. Central London is probably as big a target as Paris though.
Fair enough, in that context that makes sense.
However, if "here" is the UK then I would suggest that an attack in London, or possibly another major city, is very likely.
EDIT: She's jus been in crying gain, saying she's still scared. Do you fancy coming round and informing her how WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!! PANIIIIIIIIIIIIIC!!!!!!!!!
I never said that.
It is terrible news.
What reaction has there been from the uk Muslim community?
I think I would be organising a "Not in the name of Islam " rally.
Letting the nutters know they are deluded and not supported by their communities must be the first step.
Well the French Muslim Council condemned it pretty clearly and quickly.
I wouldn't want to be organising any 'not in my name' rallies if I was a muslim today..
Do we expect local church groups to mobilise when a christian nutjob kicks off somewhere? The W.I.? The local boys choir?
Islamophobes are despicably ugly and ignorant creatures at the best of times, let alone on a day like today.. I'd be laying low if I was a muslim this arvo
Anyone going to a vigil tonight?
Faith communities, including the Christian-Muslim Forum and the Muslim Council of Britain, have organised a silent vigil at Trafalgar Square at 6:30pm tonight, to remember those who have been killed in Paris. Attendees will be coming to bring tea lights and blue, white and red flowers.
[url] http://www.mcb.org.uk/vigil-in-solidarity-with-the-people-of-paris/ [/url]
The elephant in the room is perhaps too horrifically ugly to talk about, but Hollande already says that France is "at war"
Article five?
If the perpetrators can be positively linked to Isis/Syria rather than domestic Islamic extremists supporting Isis then invoking it could really shake things up. There is of course precedent from 9/11 here too.