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First two episodes sunk tonight - very good.
Am looking forward to watching this. Saw the old series on DVD just after visiting Japan last year so hoping the new version will be even better. But I heard it is more gruesome because it’s closer to the original book.
Just watched and it's very good. So looking forward with anticipation to the next episode.
As above, it's based on the book, rather than a newly written Japanese version.
Partly in English, partly subtitled Japanese, at least for these early episodes, though that might change to full English, but hopefully not.
dont suppose theres anywhere but Disney to see this??
Or whether itll be available anywhere else after its fully aired?
Excellent. Lined up for me and Jnrs Friday movie night.
Stated watching it last night but i was heavy eyed so kept missing the subtitles, will start afresh today.
I fancy this, but no Disney+
Where's good for Disney+ subscription offers?
Partly in English, partly subtitled Japanese, at least for these early episodes, though that might change to full English, but hopefully not.
Seem to remember the original serialisation didn't subtitle any of the Japanese? In order that the viewer fully experienced what Blackthorne experienced? Or did I just get a pirate copy of the DVD? 😂
Disney's
"Shogun"
Sounds dreadful, watch NHK instead 🙂
But then anything with Disney in the title makes my skin crawl.
Watched most of the first ep, but same as @Drac, not paying full attention to it. It does look pretty impressive at least.
How gruesome is this? Looks good, but the wife is put off by the 18+ rating, she's ok with war, so band of brother/pacific is fine, The boys - not so much.
if you have an o2 phone you can usually blag 6 months free by renewing your contractWhere’s good for Disney+ subscription offers?
Or just exercise some patience, wait for all episodes to be available, and sub for 1 month? Will cost less than you used to spend on a DVD, and there’s a lot more other content you can binge watch too!!
I’m a massive fan of the book, but was always slightly leery about whether it could actually be filmed in a way that would do its complexities and sub-plots justice. Similar I guess to Flashman (though any adaptation of that would need his commentary as that is what makes them so good and so funny). However all the ‘noise’ around this makes me think it’s a must watch
*heads off to dig out Disney+ subscription information prior to the argument with the missus re who’s going to pay for it..
Switch to a Lloyds Club Account and get £175 and Disney Plus for a year. See MSE for details.
Where’s good for Disney+ subscription offers?
Get mine free with a Lloyds Bank account. Sounds like something worth watching at last. 🙂
How gruesome is this?
So far (ep 1) a man's been beheaded - very fast almost nothing to see, it's very violent but over in a flash, and a man's been boiled alive - lots of off screen screaming and a brief (less than a moment) shot of a very melted face.
So yes, v violent, but lot's left to your imagination. I was also a bit cautious of it, I'm expecting more gore though
Pah I was letting my subscription expire as I'd watched everything I was interested in... Now I'll have to renew.
I use Tesco shopping vouchers as there's nothing else I spend them on, you get 3 months at a time.
Loved the first two - interesting reinterpretation of the book (Blackthorne's posh, Toranaga doesn't have a belly, Yabu looks a cheeky, smiley ruffian, Rodriguez is now Spanish, etc) but absolutely none the worse for that. Gets stuck into the Council of Regents conflict straight from the off, so there are multiple story threads from the get-go - it's beautiful, I love it. 🙂
I'm enjoying it. I missed the storm though. Not integral to the plot I know, but hey.
i don't think it's "Disneys", though appreciate it's made by a company they own (FXP), so isnt typically "Disney'd", im sure PREY which is underated, is also not a typical Disney production as its done by 20th CenturyStudios.
I watched E1 last night and thought it quite good.
It was pretty decent, I'd say the factional plotting is quite complex for anyone not familiar with the story but it's well done.
The violence is mainly implicit and there's the superfluous boob flash to make American subscribers think they're getting their money's worth but so far well below GoT levels of rapey prurience.
Worth a watch I'd say.
So far (ep 1) a man’s been beheaded – very fast almost nothing to see, it’s very violent but over in a flash, and a man’s been boiled alive – lots of off screen screaming and a brief (less than a moment) shot of a very melted face.
Thanks - I was concerned it might be GOT gore for gore’s sake. A beheading, off screen screaming and no doubt a few seppukus in coming episodes doesn’t sound significantly worse than the original. So time to fork out for Disney for a month or so.
Disney’s “Shogun” Sounds dreadful
Really?
Was the book based on the true story of William Adams?
Super-loosely - at least some of them are based on real people, Toranaga's based on Tokagawa Iesuyu (or something like that!) for example. But I thinknit's mostly fiction that dips a toe into history.
Tesco clubcard vouchers are a great way to get a cheap 3 month subscription.
Be aware that in the last month or two they've changed it so you now get the non-UHD/HDR subscription level, rather than the full fat version that you used to get.
Disney’s “Shogun” Sounds dreadful
Yes it does, but thankfully this is some-one else's version that just happens to be on Disney's streaming platform.
The boiling incident was the one thing that has stuck with me about the book - think I read it 30 years ago. Interested to see what they've done with it.
have they - better check my subs!
Speeder
The boiling incident was the one thing that has stuck with me about the book – think I read it 30 years ago. Interested to see what they’ve done with it.
Thought they struck a good balance with the horror of it, but not making it graphic
Thought it odd that Blackthorne didn't seem aware of it next day, he didn't even know about it, I remember (maybe wrongly, long time back) from the book he was furious about it. Not much point being a book purist though, the show seems very good.
The timeline's moved round a bit - in the book he was initially in the luxury of the village, then flung into the pit and was in the pit when Pieterzoon was... You know. I guess it's semi-plausible he might not know who was screaming from the village, if Pieterzoon didn't speak at all the whole time.
have they – better check my subs!
Yeah, the options now are;
- £7.50 of vouchers for 3 months Standard with Ads sub
- £12 of vouchers for 3 months Standard sub
No option for the premium level that gives you UHD/HDR/Atmos (and 4 instead of 2 devices streaming simultaneously)
The beheading in episode 1, two peasants argue then someone completely different gets the chop. It's bothering me why... did they miss a scene out? Not sure what the poor bloke did to deserve it!
Only one episode down, pretty decent, and for once it's nicely shot so you actually see what's going on without a massive telly.
"The beheading in episode 1, two peasants argue then someone completely different gets the chop. It’s bothering me why… did they miss a scene out? Not sure what the poor bloke did to deserve it!"
Omi asked the peasants to move back, one of them didn't.
Watched ep 1, seems ok. I remember the original mini-series as a kid, never read the book.
“The beheading in episode 1, two peasants argue then someone completely different gets the chop. It’s bothering me why… did they miss a scene out? Not sure what the poor bloke did to deserve it!”
Omi asked the peasants to move back, one of them didn’t.
Often that’s all it took when dealing with the Samurai class - the temper of newly forged sword blades was often tested on imprisoned criminals…
I’ve got a Lloyds Club account, there’s a few things on Disney+ I’ve been meaning to check out, having read the book and watched the original series, and with a lot of Japanese input and a greater understanding of needing more accuracy when showing other cultures this looks like it would be worth watching, especially in later battle scenes.
the gore is there but handled well, they dont linger or use any more than is needed to get the point across.
And my wife has just informed me she cancelled our D+ account after Christmas 🤦🏻
Was the book based on the true story of William Adams?
Certainly inspired by. By all accounts Clavell saw the story is one of his daughter’s school history books.
If you’ve not read it, it’s brilliant. I’ll be starting the series with my son on Saturday. I was going to say no spoilers, but I’ve read the book about 6 times (albeit not for a few years).
Clavell was an interesting man, a prisoner of war for years in WW2 in the Changi camp (1 in 15 survived), he came out fascinated by the Japanese character and why they behave in the way that they did.
His first book was called King Rat and is a loosely autobiographical story based on his time and experiences in Changi.
He also wrote books about the founding of Hong Kong (Noble House), the opening up of Japan to trade (Gai-Jin) and the Iranian revolution (Whirlwind) amongst others. All worth a read
Three episodes in and I'd just like to upgrade my review to 'magnificent'.
And my wife has just informed me she cancelled our D
This is not unusual in a marriage.
All is not lost, she found a £1.99 per month for 3 months offer….. very much enjoyed the first two….
Bummer having to wait a week between episodes. I think I'll maybe try to save up a few for a worthwhile binge.
It's great isn't it? It's different to how I imagine it in my head and suffers slightly from the comparison, but that's my problem! Pretty sure one of the main characters was on a different boat in the book, not really sure why that changed last night (he says, hopefully non-spoilery)?
Seen the first two now and thought it was excellent. So long since I read the book that I can’t identify any changes of sequence/location/character, but thought that they’ve got a across the cultural dynamics, the politics, the Japanese character and the simmering violence very well
I can always tell if something is good if I think 'bugger, Its finished and I've only just sat down' when in fact it was an hour.
It's mighty good telly.
Saw the first two over the weekend and watched episode three last night. As a longtime fan of Japanese cinema (especially samurai movies) this one hits the spot. A real breath of fresh air after all the superhero dross we've been subjected to over the past few years.
It's definitely one of the TV highlights of the week for me. I wasn't expecting it to be all that great so it's a treat after the letdown Masters of the Air is turning out to be.
My renewal comes 2 weeks before the last episode - couldn't make it up. I had already stopped the subscription reoccurrence.
Really enjoying it, and sounds daft but the quality of the series plus the subtitles means i like that i really have to concentrate on it.. only issue is that eye is drawn to the bottom of the screen for the subtitles, when the images above are often so good...
Strangely they interviewed the show runner, and he designed the sub-titles to more in the middle of screen and even designed the images so that the subtitles did not block anything mid-screen, and it shows that way in US, but we get it at the bottom!
If anyone would like to read further, this is a brilliant book upon William Adams who the story is based on, read it three times over the years...the true story is even madder!
Great shout, thank you! 🙂
I’ve just watched the first 2 episodes so far and my opinion is it’s well filmed and acted, but it feels as if it’s been a bit GOT-ified for a contemporary audience.
I had the impression that the 1980s TV version, which I watched a couple of months ago, is closer to the original book - but it’s 40 years since I read the book so I could be totally wrong.
But I am interested to watch more episodes before I make up my mind.
he designed the sub-titles to more in the middle of screen
That sounds like a terrible idea. Subtitles should always be at the bottom. In the middle would be horribly distracting.
I had the impression that the 1980s TV version, which I watched a couple of months ago, is closer to the original book – but it’s 40 years since I read the book so I could be totally wrong.
I read the book a year or so ago and think the series has done a fantastic job of translating it to the screen. I only caught bits of the 80’s version as I was very young. So can’t compare the two series. Is it worth watching? A lot of 80’s TV has not aged well.
I think I’ve developed a middle age crush on Mariko.
But more so I’d love to live in the portrayed Japanese culture of timeless elegant politeness - albeit without the risk of getting my head cut off.
Good episode this week.
the portrayed Japanese culture of timeless elegant politeness
That's one way of looking at it. It comes across to me more as formal social structures barely keeping a lid on simmering violence and savagery.
I'm still really enjoying it, and Japan looks great. Very overcast and drizzly,a nice background of pathetic fallacy there!
But more so I’d love to live in the portrayed Japanese culture of timeless elegant politeness
and killing infants because the father failed to be polite. A hard pass from me.
Not sure that the events at the end of episode 4 play into the 'culture of elegant politeness' too well.
formal social structures barely keeping a lid on simmering violence
That’s my nagging impression of modern Japan having been there lots of times and on the wrong end of an officials wrath more than once.
Absolutely loving this so far, though I think I'd be pretty bloody confused if I hadn't read the book.
Does anyone else get random moments of Tom Hardy in Taboo from Cosmo Jarvis? "Sorry about your sack-of-shit lord"... Tadanobu Asano is just fantastic, steals every scene. Wish we'd got a bit more Rodriguez though.
Does anyone else get random moments of Tom Hardy in Taboo from Cosmo Jarvis?
I just see the 'This is Democracy Manifest' bloke when he starts ranting.
J-R
Full MemberI had the impression that the 1980s TV version, which I watched a couple of months ago, is closer to the original book – but it’s 40 years since I read the book so I could be totally wrong.
I read the book fairly recently and yep, it's deviating at times but mostly I think for the better. The "I will divert the japanese by feigning insanity" scene was absolutely terrible on paper, turning that into a blustering delay of overblown faux-englishness was so much better better. OTOH there's one scene that I won't spoilerise which I think has been weakened needlessly.
Preferred the book's version of the diving scene, though this one was clever too- I liked Toranaga proving his unstoppability and bellyflopping over and over, failing his way to success. The tv version of "I will watch til I know exactly what to do" was interesting but it's not really what Toranaga does. I don't think anywhere else in the book he gets anywhere by working everything out perfectly and getting it right first time! It's all "exactly as planned" after 50 million twists and turns and strokes of luck and betrayals and deceits and diving 10 times and succeeding once where others would give up fitted that perfectly.
Just finished ep3, Brackfon was getting to be a wee bit annoyingly wide-eyed and concussed in this, it's worked great in the "I know nothing and must act decisively despite that" bits but it's going to grate a bit if he's always like that. But when it works it really works, the external monologue and such is great (and the little bits, like him changing his mind while speaking and only Mariko knowing, and choosing not to translate, are lovely. Actually all the translation bits have been great, the shifts in approach work really well, sometimes it's important to get the dialogue only, sometimes it's important to get the actual translation side and be reminded of it, and that each side might think the other understands when they've actually heard different things.
I'm loving it (as are my folks). However, I heard it's only one season long... Hopefully not.
However, I heard it’s only one season long…
That's only one book so if the series covers it all it'll be difficult to go beyond that. His other Asian books are loosely connected but set in different times and places.
Hopefully if they've run out of source material they don't make the Games of Thrones mistake and serve up something inferior just to satisfy public demand and keep the money flowing. One and done is fine for documentary dramas like Band of Brothers and Chernobyl, no reason we shouldn't accept it for fictional ones.
Using it as a jump off for one of the other novels would be good, though. I think I preferred Tai Pan to Shogun, but the lack of japanese stuff for all the weebs to drool over might weaken it as tv material 🙂
"If anyone would like to read further, this is a brilliant book upon William Adams who the story is based on, read it three times over the years…the true story is even madder!"
Just to say, 46% through Samurai William and it is FAB. 🙂
"The “I will divert the japanese by feigning insanity” scene was absolutely terrible on paper, turning that into a blustering delay of overblown faux-englishness was so much better"
Interesting! I thought the opposite, Blackthorne at that point in the TV show had no status, I could imagine him having his head lopped straight off just for the lack of manners, whereas seemingly having gone insane would be more of a distraction and make him less approachable for head-lopping. But that's how opinions work, I guess. 🙂 Absolutely loving the show. 🙂
Just watching episode 3. This and The Bear are some of the best TV I’ve seen in ages.
I hated the bear and I’ve kind of lost interest in this halfway through…
Didn’t get h the hype over The Bear. Tried it a couple of times.
I wasn’t keen at first and stopped watching it. Gave it another chance and watched it all, the Christmas dinner episode in series 2 is bloody brilliant, never seen anything quite like it.
Cousin at the three star restaurant with Olivia Coleman has been superb too.
The acting and the script are just sublime.
I can’t wait for the last two episodes.
Still loving shogun, i was going to say it's been a bit more up and down but I think it's more that they've been widening the scope a bit and doing some different things. And the changes mostly keep me on my toes.
But really I just want a spinoff series called something like "Yabu And Brackfon In A Boat". Forget Mariko, that's the love story I want to see, just 2 men with no control over their destinies whatsover careering through history and getting everything wrong. If we can somehow squeeze in Klaes Ashford from the Expanse that'd round it off nicely though, that might be a wee bit tricky
I ****in love the bear. Though this series wasn't as sharp as the first, the flashback episode was incredible and I liked the ones when they stepped away from the usual madness and we got Marcus And The Dude From Son Of Rambow's Bromance instead.
Back on topic -
Episode 9 - what a corker! I hope they can pull off that kind of tension in the finale!
The plot is so well done. Really enjoyed episode 9. I’ll be sad to see it end.
What an episode! It's really really well done.
Easily the best thing on TV. Though I get slight Boris Johnson vibes from John Blackthorne.
Forget Mariko
Sorry, not possible (fawn….). Laddish mode off; just have a Google and watch Anna Sawai and the attention she’s getting via interviews. She comes across as a really grounded, intelligent and culturally aware actor, definitely has stolen the show and I’m sure is a huge star in the making. Good for her.
P.S. Because my son has been aware I’m being held to a two week catch-up tomorrow as I wasn’t “allowed” to watch it without him, cannot wait!