You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
It was only a matter of time that stories like these surfaced. I can imagine the pressure on these suppliers to maximize the output during Covid to meet demand. In these poorly regulated countries it's surely not a surprise to anyone that this has happened?
Horrible situation these people are in, and awful how they've allegedly been treated.
I can't imagine Shimano would set out to take advantage of such practices, but anyone who's done their corporate compliance training will know that ignorance is no defence and they should audit their supply chain.
The only thing shocking here is Shimano had to shamed into investigating by the Telegraph. If you want to do business in these less regulated countries and you care about ethics and brand, you need to have robust inspection and audit procedures to help you choose which suppliers to get in bed with and make sure they stick their contractual obligations.
Tragically I'm disappointed rather than surprised. I suspect they aren't the only ones in the supply chains within the industry
It's disappointing but it is widespread. Our industry have been looking at this very closely just now and the outcome from that is I know, with certainty - every single one of you reading this - be it on phone, tablet or computer is utilising a device made with modern slavery - most likely to be, but not limited to, the silicon chips made in the Xinjiang Provence. All big suppliers are currently using these manufacturers with direct links to abhorrent behaviour.
We, the west have some serious thinking to do on how and where we source our goods.
Slightly curious as to why they’ve mentioned 6 other brands who aren’t Shimano, and have little to nothing to do with this, in the article.
Capitalism innit?
FFS I can’t even waste my excess money on bike bits now…
Other brands linked because they 'say' they have ethical supply chain, but there is Shimano employing 'slaves'. Maybe the big manufactures have clout to change this ?
Given the size of Shimano's supply chain, it's not a surprise. Let's hope some good comes from it.
As an aside, the photo of the pro riders is ironic, given that you have to go at least 6 riders back to find a Shimano equipped bike.
Don’t all brands say they source ethically though? How far down supply chains is it possible to look?
Why single out the TdF?
there is Shimano employing ‘slaves’.
they are buying from a company who is, very different to doing it themselves. How are brands/customers supposed to police this, proactively? Not like the shady companies will be open about it.
Because of all the Mamils who read the Telegraph?
It's the new golf, doncha' know.
Why single out the TdF?
Because it's the only bike race anyone* has ever heard of.
*anyone outside of cycling
most likely to be, but not limited to, the silicon chips made in the Xinjiang Provence
Pretty sure there aren't any foundries in Xinjiang.
Making semiconductors is 99.5% automated by machine with a few skilled people moving things about. Last place you'd use slave labour.
Based on this logic every ev and battery powered device shouldn’t exist once you have seen the reality of lithium mining
Making semiconductors is 99.5% automated by machine with a few skilled people moving things about. Last place you’d use slave labour.
It’s the processing the raw poliysilicone that’s the issue - that raw material is then used for apple, Samsung, dell et all. <br /><br />
https://www.antislavery.org/latest/solar-panel-industry-uyghur-forced-labour/<br /><br />
Granted that article focuses on Solar PV production, but once you start pulling at the thread it’s much more widespread to far more industries.
Based on this logic every ev and battery powered device shouldn’t exist once you have seen the reality of lithium mining
Based on this logic every product should be made with slave labour because if you know it happens anywhere it makes you a hypocrite if you try to prevent it somewhere
Based on this logic every ev and battery powered device shouldn’t exist once you have seen the reality of lithium mining
Or anything plastic or oil powered once you've seen the reality of oil extraction.
Where do you draw the line? Everything you consume has an impact whether environmental, social, animal welfare... Don't trust any assurance schemes, try to buy quality, and use what you do have until it is worn out is my motto.
Amazon supplier Foxconn using students on 'internships' as temporary workers to assemble Kindles and Echos for Christmas. Also mentions Chinese prisoners being used to assemble goods with a Walmart sticker on.
https://www.ft.com/content/de5fea12-2938-4c20-b394-10ca258a5fa1
If we really want to go down the rabbit hole, then the Telegraph reporting on slave labour, after recently being bought by Abu Dhabi, probably isn't a great look.
Meh.
I assume that the hand wringers here will stop buying Shimano stuff and, indeed, sell off what they have and send the funds to the oppressed.
Doubt it, so why be hypocritical? Same with most things. People cry about the environment whilst driving to the trail centre or burning electricity playing on their phone or looking at forums.
Spend your energy where it might make a difference.
They could have chosen any industry and done the same so why Shimano? Textiles made by Chinese prisoners from Regatta, stuff from Bangladesh and other densly populated sweat shop countries, so why Shimano (or more acurately Kwang Li)? It sure fits well with the Telegraph's anti-woke, anti-Japanese, anti-green, anti-cyclist spin. They have a habit of posing a question which makes an assumption in a very STW way. For example: "why does everybody hate cyclists so much?" The assumption everybody hates cyclists comforts their readers the majority of whom probably do hate cyclists but not everybody reads the Telegraph and maybe our mini-rant specialist OP should consider where what he's reading is written and put his thinking cap on before linking an article with no comment of his own.
I think it's more likely that the Telegraph is spinning stuff than Shimano is wilfully employing slave labour. Then there's the emotive language, "slave labour" is in quotes so they can dissociate themselves from it. Find a useful idiot to make an outrageous statement and then quote it - another journalistic ploy. The headline is far from the reality described within the article itself (the salery slips and contracts are part of the investigation).
Meanwhile closer to home, compare and contrast:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/10227362/Zero-hours-contracts-keep-people-in-jobs.html
with
They could have chosen any industry and done the same so why Shimano?
Erm, “they”, the press, report on all industries and will report all reports of modern slavery.
I disagree, Goldfish, the press doesn't report all reports of modern slavery, it's selective. Which is why I asked myself "why Shimano?" All that effort on Shimano when there's so much to go at.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/22/abu-dhabi-happiness-island-misery
Get back to me in a few years time with where the Telegraph has focused its modern slavery attention most. And listen to Billy Bragg's "It says here".
I’m a guardian reader.
Wouldn’t touch the telegraph with a ****ing barge pole.
Didn’t realise “they” meant the telegraph. So we’re in agreement and I haven’t read your post in that context.
Edit: or indeed much of the thread. Forgive me. One thing that easily goes wrong in forums is reading a post on its own, it’s often very difficult to read posts and thread together what an individual poster is saying. I had in mind the various modern slavery articles I’ve read in the guardian as I fought against your point of shimano being singled out. Hadn’t realised we were talking about the telegraph singling out a cycling brand to fit their narrative.
Doubt it, so why be hypocritical?
I'm a Guardian reader too but don't agree with all of its commentators, some really annoy me with either their style or agenda. It's the mainstream paper that annoys me the least (though their efforts on Brexit really annoyed - superficailly pro-remain while loads of anti-European country tittle-tattle stories)
This one with John Crace (who would probably prefer to himself as John Crass were he reporting on himself) trying to be clever/funny and proving he isn't. He only uses two words of French and gets it wrong, it's "et toi, Patrick ?"
However, Marina Hyde usually makes me smile whilst keeping it factual:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/05/boris-johnson-covid-inquiry-prime-minister
I was soooooooooo disappointed to find Marina Hyde is her real name, a naff 70s car/place posh people keep boats and the wicked side of Dr Jekkyl was such a good pen name.
Whatever ever paper we read, it's important to read it critically with their agenda in mind - I watch TF1, it's a sort of game of "what do they want me think and what do I think".
it’s more likely that the Telegraph is spinning stuff than Shimano is wilfully employing slave labour.
Who said Shimano is wilfully employing slave labour?
It's a odd, dusty notion that the Telegraph would pursue this story out of anti-Japanese animus.
I don’t think it’s that, I think it’s anti cycling. They pick Shimano, and state they make stuff for everyone, from budget commuters to big money racers. They name 3 of the most popular brands that you are likely to see out and about, the race that everyone outside of bikes as heard of, then the most visible cycle retailers on the UK high street.
‘Basically, if you ride a bike, you condone slavery.’
*I should add, that as of a couple of months ago, I have no Shimano kit on any of my bikes, for the first time possibly ever. Nothing to do with slaves, mind.
Also weird to assume a piece of journalism is driven by anti-cycling animus. This isn't the first time the Telegraph has reported on the subject. I don't at all like its commentary but the paper does decent investigative journalismm.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/01/03/like-not-complicit-use-child-labour/
the paper does decent investigative journalism
Physician, heal thyself.
Oh so the Telegraph give a crap about modern slavery now?
Didn't realise they'd had a change of heart
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/16/end-scourge-bogus-modern-slavery-claims/
Shimano need to short their s**t out, like most other large globalised companies
However, I don't think for a minute that the Telegraph have good intentions here
You've just identified the difference between the news and comment sections of a newspaper...
Are you seriously suggesting the Telegraph has a vendetta against Shimano?
I don’t think it’s that, I think it’s anti cycling. They pick Shimano, and state they make stuff for everyone, from budget commuters to big money racers. They name 3 of the most popular brands that you are likely to see out and about, the race that everyone outside of bikes as heard of, then the most visible cycle retailers on the UK high street.
‘Basically, if you ride a bike, you condone slavery.’
Is that really what they're saying though? I'm no fan of the Telegraph, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to jump to a conclusion that it's essentially 'anti cycling'. Especially without any real proof that it is. As an 'outsider' here ( I do own a bike, but I'm not a 'cyclist' in the same sense many of you on this forum are), I am getting the feeling that some people are annoyed that their chosen activity is being held up to scrutiny. Would those same people be getting so wound up if the article 'targeted' another activity that isn't as popular on this forum?
I assume that the hand wringers here will stop buying Shimano stuff and, indeed, sell off what they have and send the funds to the oppressed.
Doubt it, so why be hypocritical? Same with most things. People cry about the environment whilst driving to the trail centre or burning electricity playing on their phone or looking at forums.
Spend your energy where it might make a difference.
People mainly make choices that suit their own needs and lifestyle. Sometimes they make choices on ethical grounds. Very often, they choose to conveniently ignore ethical issues if it means they have to give up a particular activity or product. I've had many a 'discussion' with Vegans over the ethics of eating choices; is it any better for example to have vegetables flown around the world, grown by people in shitty working conditions on very low pay, than say raising cattle as sustainably and humanely as possible? Ethics is a minefield, and many choose to step around rather than confront the issues. Many will simply keep quiet about the ethical issues that affect their own lifestyle choices. This is the reality of modern society. I feel that trying to be aware as much as possible, and making choices based on what you feel is right, is the best approach rather than just ignoring everything, but we all end up as hypocrites and virtue signallers at some point. 'Shooting the messenger' as is happening here, isn't going to absolve you of your ethical sins.
We, the west have some serious thinking to do on how and where we source our goods.
People have been saying this for decades.Has anything actually improved in this regard?<br /><br />
Where do you draw the line? Everything you consume has an impact whether environmental, social, animal welfare… Don’t trust any assurance schemes, try to buy quality, and use what you do have until it is worn out is my motto.
I try to follow this as much as I can. I admit I fail at times. My bike has Shimano gears. It is quite old though.
I don't think the Telegraph have a vendetta against Shimano, only against cyclists.
As for modern slavery, they seem more bothered about highlighting it as a immigration 'loophole' -- and thus using this to smear asylum seekers -- than trying to actually tackle modern slavery (while getting their facts wrong in the process)
Have they spearheaded many other investigations into modern slavery (and recently)? If Shimano is one among many, I'd admit to overreacting here.
I think it’s a bit of a stretch to jump to a conclusion that it’s essentially ‘anti cycling’
Cycling and Cyclists are often mentioned where it simply isn’t relevant.
If someone on a bike assaults someone, it’s ’cyclist assaults victim’. If a mugger runs away, it’s never ‘jogger steals bag’. If a getaway car is used it’s never ‘motorist robs bank’
Other areas too. ‘The cyclist, who wasn’t wearing a helmet, was killed when his chest was crushed under a lorry’
Same with all the illegal electric motos being referred to as eBikes
Etc ad infinitum.
Also, does the shady company make any of shimano’s fishing gear? If so, why aren’t various fishing brands, shops and events mentioned?
Fishing wasn't mentioned because the workers weren't making fishing stuff...
legometeorology
Free Member
I don’t think the Telegraph have a vendetta against Shimano, only against cyclists.
As for modern slavery, they seem more bothered about highlighting it as a immigration ‘loophole’ — and thus using this to smear asylum seekers — than trying to actually tackle modern slavery (while getting their facts wrong in the process)
Have they spearheaded many other investigations into modern slavery (and recently)?
1) do you genuinely believe that an editor commissioned a long detailed and serious piece of investigative journalism into Shimano's supply chain in Malaysia because the newspaper hates bikes?
2) did you read the article? there is q long detailed and serious piece of investigative journalism about working conditions in the medical products sector in Malaysia linked halfway down. No doubt the posters on cathetertrackworld were just as upset when it came out
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/revealed-condom-supplier-nhs-british-high-street-accused-shameful/
3) the comment piece you linked to is supportive of efforts to prevent modern slavery. But it's not really about modern slavery at all, its an immigration moan.
The persecution complex here is weird.
3) the comment piece you linked to is supportive of efforts to prevent modern slavery. But it’s not really about modern slavery at all, its an immigration moan.
Exactly, it misuses modern slavery statistics to have a go an immigrants; of course they condone modern slavery, who wouldn't? The other thing I linked is an NGO working to end modern slavery calling out the Telegraph for their misinformation. So I think it quite reasonable to be sceptical about the Telegraph's motives for reporting on Shimano.
I mean, just look at their front pages on slavery and (recreational) cycling. There are obvious trends, let's say.
It’s the processing the raw poliysilicone that’s the issue – that raw material is then used for apple, Samsung, dell et all.
I’m willing to bet that virtually everyone around the world but particularly more developed countries are absolutely surrounded by devices using microprocessors. It’s virtually impossible to find anything that uses electricity in one form or another, ie batteries or mains, that doesn’t. The shortage of new cars because of the shortage of processors, as a recent example.
Now, anyone got any bright ideas about getting out of that little conundrum?
I mean, just look at their front pages on slavery and (recreational) cycling. There are obvious trends, let’s say.
Seems like you think the real victims in this story are cyclists!
I thought this was a really interesting documentary:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001s74g/panorama-boohoos-broken-promises
In this case the company had its suppliers over a barrel with costs, even enforcing new discounts on the suppliers after they had agreed clothes orders, and even after clothes orders were shipped and en-route.
A little bit like Supermarkets forcing dairy farms to supply milk below cost...so it's not always the fault of the supplier, sometimes the customer has them over such a barrel they are essentially blackmailed into selling below cost, and that means poor conditions and low wages for the factory workers futher down the supply chain.
Seems like you think the real victims in this story are cyclists!
Indeed there's some people posting on this thread who would make great question time panelists:
"Look at this wrongdoing"
"The bigger story is who is telling you about the problem, ask yourself why"
"So you don't think there is anything wrong"
"No its definitely wrong, but my enemy's enemy is my friend, and there are other problems in the world, so lets talk about my specialist interest".
They could have chosen any industry and done the same so why Shimano?
Not sure if everyone sees the same links as I do - but there's a "pop out" story near the bottom thats clearly talking about the same sort of stuff in the condom sector. The condom story then has a link to a more traditional slavery in Africa. Could it just be that as you don't read the torygraph you only saw the story about bike parts because someone posted it on a bike forum?
Seems like you think the real victims in this story are cyclists!
Nope. What I think is the Telegraph don't give a sh*t about modern slavery, and hence the point of them publishing an article like this is not to tackle slavery, but to add to their anti-cyclist, pro-motorist, and generally anti-climate agenda. The main victims of which are not cyclists.
If they cared about slavery, then their slavery page wouldn't be dominated by anti-woke articles downplaying Britains role in slavery, and they wouldn't have been called out by actual anti-modern slavery organistions for misusing modern slavery statistics in smear attacks on asylum seekers.
Crudely put, I'd say their implicit proposal to deal with Shimano's modern slavery is drive more; I'd suggest keep on riding but click on the classified link above when you need to replace something.
I lived in cambodia in 2014,Koh Kong, right on the thai border, had a factory making shimano garments there.I cant imagine that the wages there were anything like realistic, considering the dirt poor nature of the place.
Working for asda 4 years ago, they were trying to bring in zero hours contracts, which meant that you could not guarantee to be able to pay the rent every month, but they really were anti- Union
the point of them publishing an article like this is not to tackle slavery, but to add to their anti-cyclist, pro-motorist, and generally anti-climate agenda
This is paranoia.
This is paranoia.
Do you just not read articles in the mainstream media, not just the telegraph?
They often have hundreds/thousands of comments, maybe 75% of those full of hate for ‘cyclists’. Anti-cycling articles generate loads of clicks & engagement, and just reinforces any negative stereotypes, to the point we are seen as sub human.
I imagine you will enjoy that last line, as it seems so ridiculous, but here is a comment from a Facebook page. The person commenting is an MTBer who, for obvious reasons, I avoid riding with these days.
What I’m seeing now in these comments sections is not that ‘cyclists should pay road tax’ it’s ’cyclists should pay more tax’…
I don't think it's paranoid. I'm not claiming I'm definitely correct on this, but I think a level of skepticism about the Telegraph's motives is justified.
I think it's pretty reasonable to say that newspapers have their particular political alliances, ideologies, and themes, which editors aim to keep too while maximising engagement from their audience, whether that be through positive or negative emotional reactions; largely feeding the audience things that fit with their worldview. All this is probably as true for the Guardian as it is for the Telegraph.
I also think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that the Telegraph is anti-cyclist and anti-climate, and that most of their discourse around slavery is about painting contemporary discussions as a woke waste of time. They also have some critical articles about modern slavery and the role of Western consumers in there, but extremely diluted amongst the rest.
So given all that, it's perfectly reasonable to ask why they are interested in modern slavery in the cycling sector? Does this fit into their typical political alignment and audience engagement, or not? If so, how? And if not -- which is what I think your argument that I'm being paranoid implies -- then why?
Maybe I can offer some limited insight as a former news journalist.
Yes, the Telegraph editoral leadership are probably happy to run anti-cycling stories.
No, they won't have set out to dig up dirt on Shimano to feed that agenda.
The reporters are unlikely to have anti-cycling views. It's more likely that they and the sub-editors do it as a hobby tbh.
Seeing it through a "culture war" lens isn't exactly paranoid, but it's needlessly reductive.
I also think it’s pretty uncontroversial to say that the Telegraph is anti-cyclist and anti-climate
How would anyone know that unless they regularly read the Daily Telegraph?
It might be true, I don't read it regular enough to know - I neither buy it nor pay for online access. A quick search throws this up which suggests that the claim might indeed be controversial:
@ernielynch, you can judge for yourself here. They don't seem to be as bad on climate as on cycling, but you can make up your own mind here
FYI I'm a climate change researcher, so I probably have a lower bar than most for what I consider anti-climate
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/recreational-cycling/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/climate-change/
Edit: I worked out that their website is stupid. If you press escape after the article has loaded but before the paywall has come up, then you can block the latter (at least, a lot of the time this seems to work for me).
Anti-cycling articles generate loads of clicks & engagement, and just reinforces any negative stereotypes, to the point we are seen as sub human.
I imagine you will enjoy that last line, as it seems so ridiculous
The Shimano slavery article in the Telegraph is not an anti-cycling article. The previous, similar article is not an anti-catheter article. You are not the victim in a story about vulnerable Nepali workers being exploited by rapacious contractors to a multinational corporation. You are being ridiculous.
but you can make up your own mind here
I honestly don't have a view on the Daily Telegraph's position concerning climate change and cyclists, it would require me to be a regular reader.
I tend to base my views on evidence, which I am sure that as a climate change researcher you appreciate, 😉
I was just responding to the comment claiming that it’s pretty uncontroversial to say that the Telegraph is anti-cyclist and anti-climate.
Seeing it through a “culture war” lens isn’t exactly paranoid, but it’s needlessly reductive.
The Shimano slavery article in the Telegraph is not an anti-cycling article. The previous, similar article is not an anti-catheter article. You are not the victim in a story about vulnerable Nepali workers being exploited by rapacious contractors to a multinational corporation. You <em style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';">are being ridiculous.
I agree. Attempting to create some sort of 'victimhood' really detracts from what we should be discussing; modern slavery. And if the bicycle manufacturing industry is linked to that, then 'cyclists' should be mindful of that, and perhaps apply greater scrutiny to their own consumerism.
Exactly, who cares about the rest, the point is this is happening so what would you like to see done about it?
I agree. Attempting to create some sort of ‘victimhood’ really detracts from what we should be discussing; modern slavery. And if the bicycle manufacturing industry is linked to that, then ‘cyclists’ should be mindful of that, and perhaps apply greater scrutiny to their own consumerism.
I don't think cycist are the victim here, but I can see how it came across that way.
My worry is to what extent people look at this story and think 'well that's another reason to ignore all this green cr*p and keep driving my car', rather than 'oh dear, may be I'll do what I can to spread this message so Shimano get their act together, and try to buy bike parts secondhand and only stuff I really need'.
Given the Telegraph's normal politics, I suspect they are going for the former message at least as much as the latter.
https://interactive.carbonbrief.org/how-uk-newspapers-changed-minds-climate-change/
Like the UK right wing press more broadly, the Telegraph has shifted from being at the front of climate skepticism, to accepting the science but merely complaining about the solutions.
It's moved from denial to delay.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-how-discourses-of-delay-are-used-to-slow-climate-action/