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LBS is not typical SME I was thinking more like the 5 to 50 employee range - I have not talked to anyone in this space who is happy with the vote
This is going to become akin to the Spanish Civil War isn't it?
I have Spanish friends who still don't talk to parts of their family because of who's side they were on during that hilarious war.
She's not a French national, nor am I. Why would we move to France
I know she's non-EU, you're EU.
I suggested France because you said that if she lost her job you'd be a world apart. I figured France would be closer.
Not for long am I?
To be fair, I'd rather move to a third world country run by a psychotic dictator who's death squads murder drug addicts for the lolz, than France. Maybe Germany. They're civilised.
Two people told me this week that they voted for Brexit "as a protest" but never thought it would actually happen. Idiots.
My MiL said almost the exact same thing.
There once was a chap called thebees
who thought it would be a tease
to piss off the Trax
and get up their backs
so it's in his shoes we do wees.
You've won shit in a sock. Go on, put your hand in; feel your victory.
Worth repeating.
So c'mon then what is the plan? At least we got a tune out of Nero.
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his job is based on EU funding (he's a microbiolgy researcher with a PHD! FFS he should have engaged brain).
well his current grant is and that won't change as he's already been given the cash. more than likely his next job won't be as only about 15% of science grants are from the EU IIRC.
Sure, 15 percent come from the EU. But a lot of grants from companies are based on the fact that we can easily collaborate with European universities....
And all you have to do is click your heels three times and grant funding from China, India, Iceland, Peru etc will fall out of the sky.
my PhD supervisors biggest grant was (welcome trust) in collaboration with a group in Argintinia, the idea that collaborations are easier to get within the EU nonsense. The science has to be good enough to get funded in the first place and within the remit of the funding body. EU grants are also very specific and you have to account for all the cash you spend.
EU grants are also very specific [b]and you have to account for all the cash you spend.[/b]
You say that like it's a bad thing. 😆
EU grants are also very specific and you have to account for all the cash you spend.You say that like it's a bad thing.
It is when done to the degree they require. It is akin to having to declare (and justify) how many paperclips you bought and how long it took you to buy them rather than just going to get some stationary as part of your working day.
EU H2020 grants are great for funding the kinds of cutting edge, curiosity led fundamental science that UK gov won't fund though (who want defined real world outputs to feed directly into industry. Sometimes it feels like they want us to be the R&D dept for biotech in the UK).
Boris: 'vote does not mean leaving Europe in any sense'.
Not sure whether I am crying or laughing myself to sleep.
A deeply anti-intellectual country doesn't like blue sky research anymore and simply values the monetary value of research?
What a surprise!
Meanwhile, in the Brexit camp...
Appropriate that someone in the clip has that particular moustache.
You say that like it's a bad thing
cause you can use it the way academics normally use their money
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i have not gone quiet i have simply shifted my focus onto tactical/strategic decisions to protect my family, business and personal life from the decision made by certain elements of society - i am taking the me first **** you approach so the following will happen in my life -
1. Will not be employing a new bod in the business in October
2. Will not be buying new hardware/kit for the business this year
3. Will not be investing in training for the business
4. Will not be selling my house
5. Will not be paying building trade tens of thousands to renovate new property
6. Will be taking above mentioned cash to allow my kids to buy property in a depressed market
7. Will sit on my pension funds and not spend it
8. Will not be buying any shiny things for some considerable time
9. Will be cutting overheads on home business
10. Will be cutting our day rates to clients to retain relationships
Will be sitting back to see what the hell happens, this is not revenge this is protectionism
POSTED 6 HOURS AGO #
So in some sense of two finger to them you torpedo your own business...bet you will blame someone else when that fails , hopefully someone will set up a competing firm and earn a living from your self entitled sob story.
So in some sense of two finger to them you torpedo your own business...bet you will blame someone else when that fails , hopefully someone will set up a competing firm and earn a living from your self entitled sob story.
So someone describes effectively battening down the hatches and exercising a little caution in the face of a uncertain national economic climate - pretty much exactly what a significant number of large corporations are planning to do - and you wish him financial ruin. What a lovely person you must be. May I wish you a little reciprocal karma you bellend.
"1. Will not be employing a new bod in the business in October"
The UK is so short staffed we have to import a net 300,000 workers a year just to fill the demand.
Employing one less will reduce that requirement to net 299,999.
And this is to punish Brexiters?
Have you thought this through?
And this is to punish Brexiters?
Where did he say it was about punishing brexiters? He said:-
this is not revenge this is protectionism
You didn't bother reading the detail did you? Limited attention span? Brexit voter perchance?
TBH the more brexit supporting posts i see, both here, Facebook and the Internet at large, the more i wonder if the right for everyone to have the vote is overrated.
Quite a lot of them don't seem to understand what they voted for, what the EU is and how it works or even which is their left hand.
You didn't bother reading the detail did you? Limited attention span? Brexit voter perchance?
No, Yes, No.
i wonder if the right for everyone to have the vote is overrated.
I reckon there should be a current affairs and reasoning test with every vote. The result would be used as a multiplier which weights the worth of the vote.
I'm not really serious... ...but it's tempting...
Brexit voter perchance
Well he's not the bellends throwing his toys out the pram because he didn't get his own way ,plenty of small businesses.....ooooooh carrying g on as normal.. Do I wish him financial ruin...no do I hope someone has enough about them not to piss moan and whine about the raw deal they're getting because of others, of course , this is Britain where the sense of self importance is Grande.
You've got to stop smoking that stuff...
I'm starting to think May's just beginning to stitch up the leavers. 😆
I can't believe I bothered to read through all this.
The same battle between empty faith and real world knowledge is still going on, isn't it?
Empty faith delivered the "win", but now the win has occurred, is bugger all use on its own.
If I was in a position to "help make it work" then, despite voting Remain, of course I would.
The reality is doing everything I can to miminise the financial and social impact with those I know and work with.
To achieve that, there is NOTHING to be gained by pretending that the "win" was a good idea, so no, I won't shut up, as people (whether that be customers in other countries, or non-uk born people living amongst us) NEED to be reassured that many of us Brits also think that Leaving the EU is a damn stupid thing for us to be doing.
Accepting the vote is one thing… we are leaving… but I will not allow Britain's outlook and voice be uniquely set by those who "won"… I will keep voicing my, now proven to be countrary to "popular opinion", views on migration, collaboration, humanitarian and political issues. And I urge others to do the same. Nothing to be gained from doing anything different.
I was listening to a bit of [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07k08xd#play ]"Why Did People Vote Leave?" on The Briefing Room (Radio 4)[/url] on the way home.
Christ!
Give it 5 minutes and try not to make yourself hoarse!
Give it 5 minutes and try not to make yourself hoarse!
Is it depressing?
Depends how you feel about an old dear saying she's never been to Europe, but some of her friends have and they said you have to do things differently in Europe and she doesn't want that.
Besides in the old days everyone knew each and now they don't. And she wants that back.
So that's why she voted Leave... 😕
It is depressing but I struggle to know where to direct it. Is it depressing because it tests my faith in democracy; is it depressing because being surrounded by the ignorant is a sad state of affairs; is it depressing because the campaigners and public at large failed to get these people to comprehend the issues they were voting on or all of the above.
I think it's all of the above.
Besides in the old days everyone knew each and now they don't. And she wants that back.
You think that's bad, one of my work colleagues said that before we joined the EU we used to buy sugar cane from the West Indies which was better quality than the sugar cane we are forced to buy now because we're in the EU. He didn't actually know where we buy it from now, but he knows it's not as good as the West Indian stuff. Something to do with the commonwealth apparently.
[quote=thebees ]It's all good for us winners !
Show us your prize then? As a loser I'm curious to see what it looks like
It was depressing listening made even more frustrating because virtually all of the reasons given for a leave vote had little or nothing to do with the EU.
Did it get any better? I had to switch it off after ten minutes as my windscreen was getting covered in spittle.
I was discussing the situation with a colleague a few days ago. She is a well paid professional sales person working for a huge multinational tech firm. We've taken a pretty big hit due to the tech markets main currency being USD. She voted leave.
She wasn't a fan of the EU but didn't really explain why. She wasn't worried about the long term effects as she was planning to retire to Spain in a few years!
There is literally nothing you can do to puncture that kind of stupidity as all these inflated clowns bounce around telling us how they have won.
What are we arguing about now? Anything to avoid work? 😆
On my way back from Harwich this morning (well someone has to go there) it was noticeable that the Leave banners and placards are still in place. It's as if they want someone to clean up after them. Newsflash only 'your mum' clears up after you and she's busy.
I feel more like staying in the EU following Nice than ever.
Creating division, seeing everything as 'them and us' is what creates the environment that nurtures extremism.
Celebrate diversity, welcome others, accept the world is all about nuance and not stark contrast.
There's no winners from putting barricades up.
There's no winners from putting barricades up.
Unless you're Froome and Porte.
But seriously, this +1000. In many ways you can see Brexit as a symptom of divisions and polarisations across the whole of Europe. Countries pulling away from each other when we should be pulling together.
"Celebrate diversity, welcome others, accept the world is all about nuance and not stark contrast."
The EU doesn't welcome others. If you live in Nigeria you can't just move to an EU country.
The UK doesn't at this time welcome *anyone*.
I'm starting to think May's just beginning to stitch up the leavers
That is my take, I'm thinking her plan is to make such a balls up, we have no choice but to rejoin. Either that or start making flint based tools to survive....
"The UK doesn't at this time welcome *anyone*."
Wrong. There are a gazzilion EU and non-EU migrants in my area, they're all welcome and they all have no problem finding work. We're as welcoming as anywhere else.
Celebrate diversity, welcome others, accept the world is all about nuance and not stark contrast.There's no winners from putting barricades up.
Absolutely this. I voted remain, and I didn't even consider the economic effects. It is blindingly obvious that if the human race is to survive we need to stop pretending that various groups are special or different. We have one human race, one planet. The EU was a step away from divisions and a step towards that unity. Being told by the morons that I've abandoned principle in favour of economic self-interest is beyond irony.
And even after 6 pages we are still waiting to hear what exactly it is that we've won. Jamba's list was fine, but he didn't go on to say how those things actually benefited anyone, or why they were better than what we had before. Thebees is just a troll, but there are other Leavers here - can any of you tell us what we've won?
"We have one human race, one planet."
So why join a trade agreement with the nearest handful of countries that prevents us doing deals on an individual basis with the rest of the world? Why not deal with everyone on mutually agreed terms?
Why not deal with everyone on mutually agreed terms?
Yes, a single world government and economic system is what is really needed. Glad you agree.
Because it gives the bloc bargaining power during negotiations to face huge entities such as China.
Turkey could have joined the EU if they'd really wanted to and the EU was setting up free trade deals with the rest of the world - so I don't buy the idea that the EU is racist.
Yes, a single world government and economic system is what is really needed.
You might not like it but think of all the problems it would solve. If mankind lasts long enough I think it's both desirable and inevitable.
If mankind lasts long enough I think it's both desirable and inevitable.
I meant it. The EU was a step in that direction, negotiating 72 separate agreements is a step away from it.
Yes OOB, but the EU is a start. We can expand open borders from there in a sensible managed way (bet someone disagrees with that) to encompass the whole world eventually.
A world without nations.
Actually, a single world government got me thinking. I wonder if the leavers object to the UN too.
Another non-democratic uber-governmental organisation without even having the benefits of a single market.
"Yes OOB, but the EU is a start."
It really isn't. Agreement with 27 nation prevents us individually getting any agreement with the other 170.
There are many good arguments for the EU, improved trade with the rest of the world isn't one of them.
The EU tried for years to reach agreement with India and gave up because all 27 nations couldn't agree terms. The UK alone could get an agreement far quicker.
I'm proposing a different model. Getting neighbouring countries' economies up to speed then allowing them into the union.
Slow measured growth.
Jamba's point on fiscal union would need addressing of course.
And I also agree that there are many good reasons for the EU other than trade.
[i]Actually, a single world government got me thinking. I wonder if the leavers object to the UN too.[/i]
or NATO - a large part of our defense capability controlled by commanders from other countries whilst deployed, the type of munitions our soldiers carried determined by an unelected group of foreigners?
.
I wonder if the leavers object to the UN too.
Fox News certainly got a bit confused:
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Wrong. There are a gazzilion EU and non-EU migrants in my area, they're all welcome and they all have no problem finding work. We're as welcoming as anywhere else.
As long as they can dodge the rocks and "We voted so you can leave" brigade, sure.
After 7 pages has it been proved that the Remainers have not cried themselves to sleep?
As long as they can dodge the rocks and "We voted so you can leave" brigade, sure.
None of that where I live. Police issued a statement. No increase in reporting whatsoever.
Last week I met the representative of a Chinese investment consortium, who was in the UK on an extended investment trip. She voiced very real concerns over UK instability following the exit vote and described how her employers have significantly revised their view on risk when associated with potential UK inward investments into their target group of SMEs with useful R&D activity. Their concerns included restrictions on access to the EU market- exactly the sort of concerns voiced by the Remain side as a good reason to stay.
If my unrepresentative sample of 1 is anything to go by, such venture investment may be harder to secure for some time to come. I've yet to hear any really sensible reasons why anyone would have voted exit. Other than the 'Cameron- Bloody Nose' concept.
None of that where I live. Police issued a statement. No increase in reporting whatsoever.
Splendid. We should all move to where you are, the utopia that it is.
You've won shit in a sock. Go on, put your hand in; feel your victory.
very good!
Splendid. We should all move to where you are, the utopia that it is.
I love it that you think somewhere were people don't throw stones at each other and verbally abuse each other is 'Utopia'. 😀
Won shit in a sock?
Gideon and Dave are out of power.
I'll do half a jig to that
And Boris Johnson is foreign secretary.
*suspends jig*
It's no coincidence that Foreign Secretary is an anagram of Court Jester.
Have any of the jubilent leavers noticed that we're still in and showing no intention of enacting Article 50?
May's comments about Scotland suggest she's kicking the Article 50 can several years down the road, if not forever.
So all we've achieved is a recession and loss of EU funding for various things.
Yeah but Nigel is going to get a blue passport.
We all want Nigel to have a blue passport.
Hopefully Nigel will use his blue passport to **** off back to the 50s.
Have any of the jubilent leavers noticed that we're still in and showing no intention of enacting Article 50?
Yes I've noticed
Great I think, we've got a prime minister who is going to stop and think about things and come up with a strategy, rather than going off half cocked
Why the hurry?
As long as it's issued before the end of April 2018, then we will be out before the next election.
As long as it's issued before the end of April 2018, then we will be out before the next election.
Why? Are you worried the public won't continue to support brexit at the GE? Surely if it's the will of the people you shouldn't fear there being a change of heart, or is this not the democracy that you're looking for?
Why? Are you worried the public won't continue to support brexit at the GE? Surely if it's the will of the people you shouldn't fear there being a change of heart, or is this not the democracy that you're looking for?
quite the contrary - I think that it provides the perfect opportunity for the Conservative Party to go to the country and demonstrate that they have delivered on their manifesto commitment to hold a referendum and respect the outcome.
"We were elected on a mandate to hold a referendum and respect the outcome, we held a referendum, you voted to leave, and we left, so there you are, job jobbed - now, do you want to go onward into independence with a government who have proven themselves, or do you want that rabble of sh*** who still haven't picked a leader?"
ninfan - MemberWhy the hurry?
Overall I agree with you, fools rush in, etc.
But, since you asked...
1) There are lots of people who are very worried about their future. For example: my friend with a German wife, they're both worried. My Mexican friend with his polish wife, the deafening silence from No10 is forcing them all to consider how they'll leave the uk when they're told to. It's easy for people like me to think they're worrying over nothing, but who knows what our new pm ('immigrants go home') has in mind.
2) Eu funding for uk science is going to start drying up, this is bad news. The longer we do nothing about it, the worse it'll be. if we're to have a future in high value manufacturing ( aerospace, medicine, energy generation, etc.) we need to start nailing down the access/collaboration/funding agreements.
Our relationship with the EU is already changing. We need to get involved with the process, but we won't be allowed in the room till we confirm our position.
That's more a case of 'what assurances we give industry and the wider public of our intentions' - which I agree it vitally important and overdue, rather than when we actually issue the A50 though, which I wouldn't be doing till we had had at the very least a long sit down chat with Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, Belgium and the Netherlands.
I still have faith that article 50 will be left to moulder in the political equivalent of 'that corner of the shed/garage' we all have. Where it belongs.
With any luck it will just pass into obscurity as one of those political oddities like Andorra still being officially at war with Germany because they weren't at the Paris signings at the end of the Second World War.
And yes, I am aware that it would be a massive two fingers to the people who voted to leave. An entirely appropriate one.
As long as it's issued before the end of April 2018, then we will be out before the next election.
Dream on, it has taken 300 Canadian trade negotiators seven years to negotiate their trade deal with the EU and it still hasn't been ratified / implemented yet. I doubt we'll see Article 50 enacted in under 10 years; probably never.
NB and the UK has zero trade negotiators, having not had to negotiate a trade deal since 1975.....
Dream on, it has taken 300 Canadian trade negotiators seven years to negotiate their trade deal with the EU and it still hasn't been ratified / implemented yet. I doubt we'll see Article 50 enacted in under 10 years; probably never.NB and the UK has zero trade negotiators, having not had to negotiate a trade deal since 1975.....
According to a piece by David Davis (got him the brexit tzar gig by all accounts) we should complete negotiations with the likes of China, US and India within a year! 😆
According to a piece by David Davis (got him the brexit tzar gig by all accounts) we should complete negotiations with the likes of China, US and India
Pillock.
Pillock indeed. Remarkably ignorant of how Europe works as well...
Take our new secretary of state for exiting the European Union, David Davis. It has emerged that as recently as May, Davis had believed it would be possible for Britain to negotiate trade deals directly with each EU member state, as opposed to the reality, which is that the member states are only permitted to negotiate as a bloc.