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Got a couple of indoor joinery projects to plan: basic storage unit for the conservatory (lidded box) and some under-stairs storage. I'm a pretty confident joiner/general wood-worker... fitted the kitchen including oak worktops, built a 12' square shed and deck outside, etc. but what little furniture experience I have has generally been with solid timber since it's nice to work with and feels worth putting the time into.
But these projects are more functional so I think are better suited to sheet material of some description, painted. I'll probably invest in a pocket hole jig to speed things up.
Not sure what the best thing to use is... not a bit fan of the stuff, but best guess is MDF. I remember reading that the moisture resistant stuff takes paint better. Think 18mm for the most part - might get away with 12mm for some bits, but it's not much cheaper.
Ply is marginally nicer to work with, but would probably need to be a decent grade - most stuff generally available doesn't seem to be intended for furniture. Birch would be lovely, but I could probably make it out of solid oak for less!
I've had a shop around for MDF... the builder's merchant I usually use has moisture resistant 18mm for £56 a sheet (standard is almost the same). Local timber merchant's has standard 18mm at £47 a sheet. I often find the big boys (B&Q etc.) are worth a try for timber - quality can vary, but they're often surprisingly competitive on price, and you can go in and pick it yourself rather than ending up with whatever warped/dog-eared bits they pick out for you. Wickes have standard 18mm for £36, are closer to me than the above, and open more convenient hours.
But then at £36 a sheet, which doesn't sound unreasonable, for my storage unit (roughly 8'x2'x2') I'm looking at 3 sheets, which is over £100 before I've bought any bits of hardware I might be missing, paint, etc. Wondering if it's worth the effort, though we haven't really found any suitable off-the-shelf solutions, at any price.
Bit of a ramble that... WWSTWD?
Go to a charity shop and see what they have in that might suit your purpose. If you find something, tidy it up and use it.
18mm mdf is standard, and can paint very nicely if u spend time. my local merchant is £33 sheet. Green is more (£41 here). Green is wee bit better but really not much in it if on budget. trick is finding best way to paint edge of sheet. Some fill & sand. Or just paint many coats on edge and sand.
Plywood is lovely if you want to keep wood finish and edge. But Birch b/bb is now at least £150 sheet. U could try lower grades but is a risk. As much as I dont like mdf, it is the cheapest way to make cabinets.
I have my eye on 'internal' grade ply for a couple of upcoming projects. Looks to be good value against other random variants. On the hunt for a permanent birch replacement given the source location.
As jonno101 says above, MRmdf possibly paints better but it's really all about edge prep.
I use standard mdf and MRmdf a lot for cabinets and my personal approach to edges is to sand to 180g, then I brush on a thinned cellulose primer (car paint essentially) which dries quick, and then sand at 240g.
You get a glass smooth finish.
Can't particularly say there's much difference between the types.
Remember also that all mdf is not equal. Some brands are far better. I've had awful stuff lately from my builders merchants which was like coarse fibreboard, absolutely terrible to paint.
Finsa hydrofugo is often recommended but that's more something you'll get from a specialist such as Lathams.
Make it yourself. Satisfaction for years is worth it over mass - produced stuff.
MDF is fine, though not as a finished surface really, but can be improved drastically by Formica laminate sheet. Massive range of colours and textures.
Basically you contact adhesive on and use a router to trim off any overhang.
I think Formica is beginning to make a bit of a comeback. Those kitchen tables you used to get people are finding it gives a really hardwearing and easy wipe clean surface, its hygienic etc.
Priced about £50 for a 3mx1m sheet. Though you can get 1200mmx600mm 'offcuts' for a good bit cheaper in places like ebay.
Proper birch ply furniture grade is just over £100/sheet(8'x4') or double sided veneered mdf, veneered in oak or any other hardwood, including exotics. Standard oak is about 80-100.
Proper birch ply furniture grade is just over £100/sheet(8’x4′)
I wish 😊. This is one of my suppliers. Half hour drive away or delivery.
That's not even 'furniture grade'.
You sometimes luck out and get at least one lovely face but usually it's patches both sides at that price.
@kayak I got 15mm birch for £69 and 18mm for £90 from lathams the other day. Tbh I use mainly 15 mm now.
That was quite nice wisa too.
Birch is super expensive currently mainly because a lot comes from russia
Good alternatives are 'WISA Special Spruce' which is a decent quality pale softwood ply - has quite an attractive cut edge as all the plys including the face ones are the same thickness, (which is why people leave the cut edges visible with birch). Its not perfect funtiture grade material but its nice in its own way and works well for the right thing. Often not wildly different in price to MR MDF. WISA is only available in 18mm though which limits design options but its light weight compared to MDF and other plywoods.
Another option is Grimaca 'Efficiency' Poplar Ply - great to work with because its so bloody light weight! - I've been using 25mm boards and they're so easy to handle. Again pale. Doesnt have as attractive a cut edge as birch but the face veneers are very good quality poplar and you'd struggle to tell the difference between that and birch. The faces are quite thin though so theres a limit to how much you can sand it back.
Wisa is stocked fairly widely, Grimaca Efficiency less so but it shouldn't be too hard to have ordered in - make sure its the 'Efficiency' - its about half the price of birch, but theres also a birch faced version which is really quite expensive. If you've got branch of Lathams reasonably locally they stock it.
I brush on a thinned cellulose primer (car paint essentially) which dries quick, and then sand at 240g.
You get a glass smooth finish.
Now stocked in Dulux centres around the uk.... Smith and Rodger 'Blockade' - which is a shellac based primer. Smith and Rodger are an amazing company - oldest paint manufactures in the UK - but you only used to able to get their stuff if you were local to Glasgow. The primer is thinned with meths and drys so fast you can fell the brush dragging in the setting paint, great for filling the fluff of cut mdf and creates a hard, very sandable finish - you're able to paint and sand back again a few times in an afternoon and get to the point where you paint your top coat very quickly. Great thing about shellac is it'll prime over just about any surface and pretty much any topcoat will work on it - so good in DIY terms for painting waterbased paints over old gloss and so on.
Now stocked in Dulux centres around the uk…. Smith and Rodger ‘Blockade’
Nice. I'll look out for that. Hate using cellulose. It mings.
Is it possible to buy from Latham's if you are not trade? I was planning to use efficiency poplar ply to make a unit in my camper van.
Thanks all.
Yeah, I thought Latham's was trade only. There's one not too far from me, but assumed I'd have to find a friendly joiner.
@kayak23 Thanks for edge prep tips.
Make it yourself. Satisfaction for years is worth it over mass – produced stuff.
Absolutely... I've just found working with MDF not as satisfying when I've used it before, it just feels like you're faking it. But I know it has it's place and this is probably it.
It's a shame 15mm MDF and ply isn't more widely available. I've used 15mm OSB for a few things recently, and it's a good thickness for screwing into and generally rigidity, but obviously that bit lighter than 18mm.
Re. primers, Zinsser (sp?) do a Shellac-based primer that's supposed to be good - think it was recommended on here actually. I've used the water-based one which is good and a bit cheaper, and easier clean-up, and it's pretty good. Imagine the shellac stuff would be too.
Is it possible to buy from Latham’s if you are not trade? I was planning to use efficiency poplar ply to make a unit in my camper van.
I reckon you'll be ok. Just invent a company name.
To be fair, my company name sounds like I'm taking the mick anyway, but they seem ok with me. I don't buy huge quantities either.
I’ve just found working with MDF not as satisfying when I’ve used it before, it just feels like you’re faking it. But I know it has it’s place and this is probably it.
Definitely has its place. There's this weird down-the-nose thing with mdf when it's really a great material used in the right places.
It suffered badly from the Changing Rooms-effect in the 90s and that still persists somewhat.
If you're essentially just making boxes that'll be storage, then it's spot on.
It's a different kind of satisfaction, but sorting your stuff out into well built and designed storage is very satisfying IME. 😊
MDF wholesale prices have tumbled last few months. It’s a good time to be haggling at your local timber merchants. If they have a decent turnover, recently arrived stock will be much less costly than it was 3 months ago.
Now stocked in Dulux centres around the uk…. Smith and Rodger ‘Blockade’ – which is a shellac based primer. Smith and Rodger are an amazing company – oldest paint manufactures in the UK – but you only used to able to get their stuff if you were local to Glasgow. The primer is thinned with meths and drys so fast you can fell the brush dragging in the setting paint, great for filling the fluff of cut mdf and creates a hard, very sandable finish
I'll have to check that out.Been using shellac sanding sealer, first coat thinned down with some more meths.
From Smith and Rodger naturally. It is a great place. Best for mops and other polishing kit,like fleece for rubbers. I'd avoid their bags of cloths though, its just basic cotton sheets and more raggedy thread than there needs to be. I think they rip them up and not cut them up.
when I looked into making some bespoke shelving for our study it worked out far cheaper to buy from ikea
if you want something that looks a bit different there is a good website where people have customised ikea stuff
https://ikeahackers.net/
I will probably go this route unless sheet material comes down
Make sure to budget your primer and paint costs when selecting MDF Vs Ply.
Been messing around with a few projects lately. Merchants sold me Dustin’s saying how good it was. Found Zinsser to be much better personally.
YT vids showing that piano finish make it look a lot easier than real life. I can’t get close.
Go and select by hand with them to make sure good finish and no warping.
Is it possible to buy from Latham’s if you are not trade?
Lathams is a bit odd - visiting the one in Glasgow seems almost like going to a distributor rather than a trade counter - in that there isnt a counter, - you can get buzzed into their office if you need to speak to someone - theres no way to view any of the stock so you're ordering on the basis of whats on the website. You just order (over the phone usually) and arrive at at an agreed time their loading bay and they bring your stuff to you (eventually)- your parked amongst HGV that are being loaded with tons of material.
But they've been perfectly happy to deal with me when just buying one or two sheets - no trade credit account, no minimum order - they ask for details but only for the purpose of filling out their invoice for you. Not sure what they'd be like for deliver on smaller orders I've only had deliveries for full pack orders.