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Just received a rather nice Japanese Damascus chef's knife for my birthday - this one:
Genuinely very surprised by how sharp it is! I mean: it's a brand new knife so I was expecting it to be very sharp put of the box, but this seems beyond very sharp.
I've currently got one of those knife sharpeners that sticks to the worktop and you drag the blade vertically through it - not only does that feel sacrilegious for my knew knife, I'm guessing that it will probably **** it up!
Que watching multiple you tube videos on whetstone sharpening. Anyone on here have any knowledge/experience of this? Being able to sharpen things seems like a useful dad-skill.
Specifically I'd like to know:
Seems like 1000 grit is the way to go, with then a 5000 stone for "polishing" - sound about right?
Am thinking of getting one of those clip on guides to help get the right angle, any reason not to do that?
Are all types/brands/prices of stone roughly equivalent?
Some say that you need to soak them, some say you don't, any advantages either way?
Any other pearls of wisdom to pass on?
I thought a steel was the way to go with only occasional use or stone based abrasives to re shape the edge when needed. I could well be talking bollocks tho.
I've read that a steel isn't appropriate for Japanese knives (because of something to do with the bevels?) and stones are the way to go.
These are good:
Had one for 20 years for my global knives and only changed one of the wheels once. Brings the knife up to new from almost any state.
There’s a ‘Japanese’ and a ‘universal’ knife version. Not sure what the difference is (wheel angle?) but I bought the right one and it’s been grand.
Aha right!
A bit of googling reveals that Japanese Knives are often not beveled equally on each side - some of them are "handed". The one I've just got is 50/50 balanced, so not an issue, but.... ahem..... any more I might buy in the future, might not be.
Looks pretty!
Those grits should be OK. 1000 is fairly rough so probably only needed now and again to reshape. A 3000 or 5000 side is usually enough for day-to-day or week-to-week maintenance. One thing to keep an eye on is how you move the knife over the stone for the tip. Poor technique can remove that pointy end making the knife a bit meh for some tasks. Easily remedied with more practice.
A steel isn’t really a sharpener. More a pre-use polish. It doesn’t give the same control for setting the angle and cant remove the same amount of material as a whetstone. Very handy to have though. I like the ceramic ones just because.
Soaking a whetstone is essential. The water/paste keeps the process smooth and cool. You can also add in a few swipes of a clay bar to make the process smoother and more efficient.
Best to sharpen as and when if it’s only domestic use based on ‘is this still cutting well’ IMO.
If you get lazy or mangle the edge somehow then ‘the sharpening shed’ is one of several mail-in knife sharpening services that will restore a blade for you. They did a great job restoring a huge Global knife of mine that somehow got a chipped blade after a visiting relative used it to do 🤷🏻♂️ what.
Thanks! That's all great information! *adds clay bar to the list*
I've read about using a tool to flatten the stones - how regularly would I need to do that with "light domestic use"?
Any opinion on those clip-on guides to get the angle right? Useful for a beginner, or don't bother?
somehow got a chipped blade after a visiting relative used it to do 🤷🏻♂️ what.
The note that came with the knife said:
Maintenance:
Hand wash and wipe dry, NO DISHWASHER
Please use the knife as it should be, not frozed food, and not as screw driver
Hand sharpen with waterstone, honing rod is not suitable for Japanese knives
ok, cards on the table, I've also just bought this:
This book is brilliant, it will tell you everything you need to know to keep it razor sharp as well as tips on how to use it in the kitchen and dispels a lot of myths about knife choice, sharpening etc. It will even show you how to vastly improve cheap or mediocre knives by putting a far better edge on them than they came with. Deals with concave and compound bevels etc. Highly recommended.
Linky>>> An edge in the kitchen
Yes - I think one of the videos I watched was from that chap.
I've added the book to my Christmas present list!
If the blade has a double bevel then a steel will be absolutely fine to use.
What a steel does is repair the constant damage you cause while you cut, if you look down on the sharp end of the blade you will see tiny reflections along it, that's where the edge has rolled over, it's still sharp just pointing in the wrong way. The steel straightens them out without removing material ( I mean it will remove material in the process but that's not what it's doing) and return the sharp edge to a straight cutting. A few swipes is the difference between a squashed tomato and a finely sliced tomato. It wouldn't work well on a single bevel because you'd roll it over.
First point... There is no right answer. Do what ever works for you it's only bloody making a bit of metal sharp. Personally I think waterstones are daft, they're messy and they're soft your stone will need flattening as it wears. Similarly oil stones... Messy and everything get covered in a fine layer of oil (great for rust protection for woodworking tools, less good in you sashimi)
When it's actually dull or the the steel is making no difference. I look at the blade and decide what to do grit wise, might just strop it if it needs touched up. That's in the kitchen so easy and quick. If more is needed then I have a 500 diamond plate on a 1000 ceramic stone. And a mad fine ceramic stone might be 10000 if fully mirrored after that.
That all makes me sound like some sort of sharpening geek, I'm not, it's alot of words but it takes seconds Todo and keeps them sharp knives are cheap it's only cutting softfood with hard steel. I learnt to sharpen knives and tools to shave arm hairs by a. Watching a couple of video and b. Just getting on with it, it's not a science repeat what works adjust when it doesn't quite work.
So back to point 1. If it's double bevelled treat it like a normal knife. Sharpen it with whatever you want, use a guide if you want, treat both sides equally. If it's single bevelled... Get a sensible kinfe not everything Japanese is the right choice 😂. Alternatively just sharpen the one bevel then knock the wire off somehow I guess, again it's not rocket science.
Nice looking knife that. I'm far to tight for that kind of thing.
Oh yeah... One more thing about steel, say it with me.... Away from the hands, away from the hands. I've seen some one slide a knife all the way down the steel, left away and slice right through the tendon of that makes your thumb be useful.
Good tips Josh - much appreciated.
I'm definitely in the "just have a go and see what works" camp - but I'd thought I'd do a bit of due-diligence first, as it seems like this would be a "STW thing"! Just going to pop back to the tread about expensive coffee grinders.....
I'd recommend looking at r/sharpening on reddit as a starting point for recommendations on stones and then buying 1 stone as a starter (probably a ~1k one). I'd then recommend practicing on a couple of cheap knives until you can create a burr and remove it consistently. I wouldn't bother with a guide unless it comes with the stone, I never used it after the 1st time.
Nice knives btw, I love my Nakiri!
Specifically I’d like to know:
Seems like 1000 grit is the way to go, with then a 5000 stone for “polishing” – sound about right?
1000 grit is a good frequent-use grit and if you only get one single-sided whetstone it's the way to go (not all 1000 grit stones are equal though...). I think I started with a cheap Amazon 400/1000 and 2000/5000 stone - I was practising on old knives though hence needing the 400 grit. I couldn't tell much between the the 1000 & 2000 and the 5000 whilst it did help doing a few strokes on it at the end (err...) I ended up getting a leather strop like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hestya-Leather-Compounds-Stropping-Polishing/dp/B078XB6BWX/ref=sr_1_20?keywords=leather+strop&qid=1637218575&sr=8-20 and for me it made the 5000 grit obsolete (as I was using it just to remove the burr really).
Am thinking of getting one of those clip on guides to help get the right angle, any reason not to do that?
Opinion seems fairly split on using them, some think it's a good way to get a feel for the angle and consistency of stroke (both essential for whetstone sharpening) others think they get in the way, often aren't the correct angle for your knife and don't help with sharpening the tip (for a style that curves up anyway as the angle you use changes slightly) although you probably don't need to worry about that for the knife pictured. Although my Amazon stones came with them and I tried it I didn't really get on with them and stopped using them after a couple of goes
Are all types/brands/prices of stone roughly equivalent?
No, even within water stones (vs oil stones) there's huge variety (how quickly they remove steel, what variety of steel they work best with, feel, cost) - you can easily go down a rabbit hole and spend £££. That said I think getting a cheap dual-sided stone (say 800/2000 or 400/1000) and practising with that on old knives (then getting a better stone for sharpening your new knife later) is a better way to go - you certainly don't want to be practising on your new knife.
Some say that you need to soak them, some say you don’t, any advantages either way?
Depends on the stone - some are soakers and some are splash and go. Some of the more expensive stones are splash and go (I've not read much into it but I'm assuming the compound used is a bit different), they can build up the slurry quickly whereas other stones need the water soak in order to start generating the slurry. It's not always a cost thing (some very expensive stones are soakers) - for me it's more a convenience thing.
After practising on the chapish Amazon stones I ended up buying a mix up Shapton Glass and Naniwa Pro:
120# Shapton Glass
600# Naniwa Pro
1000# Shapton Glass
2000# Naniwa Pro
5000# Naniwa Pro
You'll also need a flattening stone at some point (as the surface of the whetstone will get dished after a lot of use, or not a lot of use for some cheap stones). The Atoma 140 is generally recommended for that
My stone choices were mostly based on recommendations and partly what was in stock at the time here https://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/ct/japanese-sharpening-stones.htm?Category=c13fc999-e9dc-4672-9629-d0c90462e3bf
Also I still use a cheap (£30) sink bridge from Amazon - haven't seen a need to spend more, I much prefer using it vs stick the stone on a damp towel on a worktop but others prefer the latter.
Any other pearls of wisdom to pass on?
Practice practice practice - on old knives. There's a lot of muscle memory involved in whetstone sharpening, especially when it comes to holding a consistent angle. I'm not sure what steel is used on your new knife but generally Japanese knives use very hard steel varieties - meaning they hold an edge well but take more effort to get sharp. Bear that in mind with any practice knives to - personally I found it easier to practice on softer steel knives as you can get a burr formed more quickly, just remember when switching to harder steel knives you need a bit more patience.
Different knives have different bevel angles - unless you deliberately want to change the angle (which can take a lot of work) then make sure you determine the angle first (sharpie method is generally recommended for this).
Watch your finger-ends - when I started I ended up grinding the skin off the tips of my fingers a few times :p
I'd also highly recommend r/Sharpening on Reddit, inc. the Wiki @ https://www.reddit.com/r/sharpening/wiki/index - the forum itself is often a bit too niche for someone starting out but still some useful tips from time to time.
Get a chesp knife from dyas to practice on. Sharpening is an art in itself and perfecting it can take a while. If the knife is already scary sharp a strop lightly loaded with green paste may be all you ever need, but my arsenal includes Titman diamond stones ,325/1000 grit,and 8000 grit, and japanese water stones, 3000/8000 grit, with a strop made from saddle leather to finish. This is for chisels and gouges but the same principles apply, although i have never needed to use the diamond plates on my japanese chisels, and is probably best avoided as mentioned above.
Oil stones belong in the stone age and shaving hairs off your arms is just the starting point....
I'm no expert either but I can defo make blunt knives pretty sharp again. I would second the advice about practising on a cheap knife though. Nice Japanese Damascus steel is like having a Formula 1 car, so it seems sensible to at least be practising maintenance on a kit car first.
Worth remembering Japanese knives usually have a much smaller angle than western knives so any kind of normal pull through knife sharpener will damage it. The bullet train one should be ok I think but learning to do it manually will be better.
The level of niche knowledge on this site truly is amazing 👏
@joshvegas is speaking sense here IMO. For my woodworking chisels I work up to a 4000 grit Japanese waterstone because I want that to go through oak grain. I'm pretty keen in the kitchen, so I like to keep my knives sharp, but at worst they need to go through... a big squash? Probably the worst-case scenario here. So they don't need to be that sharp. By all means keep them honed and occasionally straighten them out on a 1000 stone, but you probably don't need a whole book on the subject. Unless you want one, in which case that's fine.
Worth remembering Japanese knives usually have a much smaller angle than western knives so any kind of normal pull through knife sharpener will damage it.
A pull through will damage any knife really - they're usually aggressive grits and remove a lot of metal. They typically also leave a microscopic saw-tooth profile, which is why a knife often seems impressively sharp for the first use uses after sharpening. But those teeth soon wear off leaving a much blunter edge then you'd have from a whetstone.
Also just noticed in the OP's pic it's a VG-10 steel knife, which is ideal for whetstone sharpening but benefits from a good stone known to work fast with a hard steel like that (e.g. certain Shapton, King and Naniwa models). Although the same grit (at least advertised as) a Shapton Glass #1000 grit would be much faster/easier/better feel to sharpen a VG-10 steel knife than a typical cheap #1000 grit stone from Amazon. But I'd still buy the cheaper stone first for practising unless you're sure you want to spend the time on sharpening to make it worth investing in good stones from the outset
Thanks everyone for your thoughts/advice! Just putting the kids to bed, but will be back later to re-read and digest!
Also just noticed in the OP’s pic it’s a VG-10 steel knife
Yes, both are 33 layer VG-10
This one:
https://www.hocho-knife.com/iseya-i-series-33-layer-vg-10-damascus-hammered-vegetable-knife-180mm/
And this one:
You can go down rabbit holes on this subject, just like you can for things like HiFi cable wire or coffee grinders, ending up investing a lot of time and money on an expensive niche solution that is theoretically the best.
But taking a practical view of this I spent £18 on this twin wheel electrical knife sharpener that is easy to use and sharpens a knife to a great level of real life sharpness in about a minute.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00VPMRTEM/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1634&creative=6738&creativeASIN=B00VPMRTEM&linkCode=as2&tag=topchoseo-21&ascsubtag=88ps39lag6d1jp74igsi794b7h
To me as a practical cook who uses his knives many times a day, if it slices raw tomatoes then I don't care what angle it is or whether it is a double sided bevel or whether I can split a hair.
Funnily enough, my backdoor neighbour is a fishmonger and sharpens his knives on a grinding wheel similar to the photo from @oldtennisshoes. But he is sharpening his knives every few days and can justify spending that sort of money.
I used to work in a kitchen and the chef's had a diamond steel, it's a oval shape and a bit like a very fine file. I got one to use for my knives (Kai Santuko and Chefs knife), I just give it one pass on each side after each use. It's still razor sharp after 6+ years of constant use so you don't need to get anything too fancy.
I once started in a shop which only had chantry knife sharpeners. There were about 4 of them screwed onto the blocks around the shop and while skeptical at first, I found they to be more than adequate.
This was a very busy big butchers based in a shopping center and I was boning and trimming about 2-3 sides of beef and a couple of lambs per day.(which then were vac packed and placed into racks on rotation)
I till that point was only used to using an oil stone to sharpen, followed by a steel to hone so the chantry seemed to be a bit amateurish, but considering to cut through chilled beef these knives weren't blunt by any respects and after a week I got into the swing of using them instead of a steel.(ALWAYS REMEMBER to wipe the blade after any sharpening or steel honing to remove metal particles)
Butcher knives have to be really sharp, not razor, because believe it or not its more difficult as the knife can stick against the bone, but professionally sharp to the point it easily slices through anything up to 6" deep of solid muscle without any real effort.
We also had an expensive pro electric grinder(Sharpenset) that you draw the knife through too give the blade its proper angles, but only used that once every 2 or so months and the chantry was the main tool used. I've both a sharpenset and chantry at home, and very handy they are.
Using the chantry you dont have to run the blade through using a great deal of pressure, and can run it back and forth a few times using only the weight of the blade(I found this best)
I dont think Japanese knives have any sort of special degree of bevel, outwith being either single or double bevel
These cost about a grand new, but they pop up on gumtree and ebay for a fraction of that, due to being really bloody heavy so its nearly always pick up only.
Japanese knives sharpening angle is usually around 15° and western style knives more like 18-20 according to this and everything else I've read.
https://www.knivesandtools.com/en/ct/find-the-correct-sharpening-angle-in-three-steps.htm
Also, you boned a couple of lambs a day - fnar 😛
I used to work in a kitchen and the chef’s had a diamond steel, it’s a oval shape and a bit like a very fine file.
See lots of people will tell you not to use those especially on fancy knives as they can remove a lot of material and not necessarily at a consistent angle. YMMV!
When using a steel you decide the angle so it isnt really a case of the wrong angle, its a case of getting use to using one. Plus with diamond, too shallow can damage the steel. It's job it to remove any burr or rollover caused from use. It's a honing thing, rather than a sharpening thing.
That said, you can(or used to) be able too get different grades of roughness so the steel could be used to help sharped a really dull edge, but the majority now will be a fine finish and designed as above for honing more than anything. A good professional steel like a butchers steel should cost you about 100 quid, you can get them for about £50 though.
If you want to buy and use one, use the method where you place the tip of the steel facing down onto a chopping board and work it in downward strokes. Dont try to hold the steel upright and do it the way we do it as that actually takes practice and you can very easily have the knife jump the lower guard and give you a nasty cut on the 2nd knuckle of your thumb, like the several I have 😆 Actually I tuck my thumb behind the handle rather than wrapping it around for just that reason.
I thought a diamond steel was for actual sharpening ie removing material and a butcher's steel was for honing as described by joshvegas above? Jeez it's a minefield!
I mostly use this to actually sharpen - https://www.procook.co.uk/product/procook-double-sided-whetstone-6002000-grit
Plus a butcher's steel regularly for honing.
I don't get mine crazy sharp but I can make them pretty good and I'm a keen home cook who uses them multiple times a day.
I do have a leather strop and compound but I've never really got to grips with it tbh.
This is what I've mostly used as a tutorial, doesn't go into crazy detail but seems to work for me .
They did a great job restoring a huge Global knife of mine that somehow got a chipped blade after a visiting relative used it to do 🤷🏻♂️ what.
A friend chipped the blade of mine chopping a block of hashish.
I saw the initial picture then saw
and you drag the blade vertically through it
and got itchy palms. I'm glad it's gone in a sensible direction since then. Whetstone sharpening is challenging but when you can slice through a sheet of A4 with the end result you feel a bit proud of yourself 🙂
over on Snowheads there's the same thread but about ski edges
over on Snowheads there’s the same thread but about ski edges
I always keep mine detuned for shredding rails in the park bro.
over on Snowheads there’s the same thread but about ski edges
I assume they also have a load of hobbyists saying "you want to buy this expansive, obscure set of tools that need an elaborate rigmarole to operate, which you can only do after studying many hours of YouTube videos" and a pro who says "I do mine using this simple, inexpensive tool that dead easy to use". 😉
See, also shaving and coffee.
For me it's a couple of passes on the steel before each use (steel held vertically with the tip on the chopping board as mentioned above). Then a few quid every year or two for a professional to give them a proper sharpen.
I assume they also have a load of hobbyists saying “you want to buy this expansive, obscure set of tools that need an elaborate rigmarole to operate, which you can only do after studying many hours of YouTube videos” and a pro who says “I do mine using this simple, inexpensive tool that dead easy to use”. 😉
See, also shaving and coffee.
Tbf, if OP is spending >£100 on a knife they're probably firmly in the hobbyist category and will fit in well with the rest of us nerds 😉.
If they are that expensive would it not be easier to send them off to a specialist once every year or so?
I know hairdressers do that with expensive scissors, but maybe thay are a lot more difficult to sharpen.
OP,
Those are good looking sharp knives!
No steel for posh Japanese knives as Japanese don't use sharping steel that often.
Better use sharpening stone but do it slowly especially if you have an expensive Japanese Gyuto.
As long as you don't do heavy chopping motion you will be able to retain the edge longer. Therefore, only need to do touching up the edge from time to time. I would use 1000 grit (or even 2000) stone to start with unless you are trying to repair the edge etc.
P/s: TK Maxx sometimes stock entry level Japanese knives and some are surprisingly good for the price.
I'm with Mattyfez on this one because I make a right mess trying to sharpen knives. local to me Cranstons butchers in Penrith will sharpen a knife for a few pounds while you queue for a Christmas baguette
I agree with Cynic-Al
the Japanese knife I have is a lovely tool but I find it much harder to sharpen than my cheaper knifes. I think this must have a lot to do with the hardness of the steel. I can never really get the good knife like a razor but the cheaper blades I have sharpen up really well. Ok...they dull a bit quicker but as it takes less time to get them decent on the wet stone I have I've actually kind of gravitated to them more than the expensive knife recently. Fella at work also alluded to this as his dad is/was a butcher and he reckons he never splurged on the really fancy steel but preferred something more utility that could be brought back to sharp quickly and easily with minimum fuss.
This won't stop me learning to get that blasted Japanese knife nice a keen though as I really do like it.
Following advice from years ago on here I just use the unglazed part of a mug.
The other day used a cardboard box as a strop*
*As an apprentice we used to use cardboard for polishing on the lathe.
I got a Lansky sharpening kit 18 months ago, it's been good to recover a few decent knives including an early 80s Martiini knife that had been horribly abused by the MiL for 3 decades and now it now actually cuts rather than requiring a brutal stabbing action.
I've just got a 1000/6000 Japanese whetstone. Had a "play" with a couple of cheap folding knives and an older kitchen knife. TBH none of the blades were particularly un-sharp but the 6000 grit part did a good job and passes the paper cutting test along the edge. Just takes a bit of practice keeping the angle. You can buy little angle spacers which help but not vital.
Much easier and better results than my Lansky system.
The knife is brand new, yes? This means it is probably as sharp as it needs to be, the Japanese dont mess about when it comes to sharpening knives.
What is your intended use for the knife? Is it going to be used to chop food, or slice it? I would stick to slicing for now, until you learn how to sharpen a knife properly on another, cheap knife. As long as your practise knife is hard enough, it will take a keen edge.
Now, before you go anywhere near a stone, learn to strop your knife.
This is very very simple, and also intuitive; you will see by the polished finish if you have the knife at too shallow or steep an angle. If you are sticking to softish produce, and not using it anywhere near bone, it is highly unlikely that your edge will wear flat. It may, however roll or become bruised.
What stropping does is it corrects the roll or bruise, and aligns it with the cutting bevel of the blade again. You can buy strops from wherever you can buy straight razors, but they are simply a bit of chrome leather ( i used a scrap of old welding apron) wrapped around any flat, squarish surface. Mine is stapled to a bit of 75mm square timber offcut, nothing fancy.
Charge ( load up) the strop with your stropping compound. I use two types, green chrome oxide for rapid corrections and 'quick ' removal of metal, and the much finer blue compound (smurf poo) which gives a mirror finish and razor sharp edge. Literally, you can shave with the blade afterwards. I use both compounds on separate faces of my stropping block.
The technique i use is simple. Drag your blade backwards ( ie spine first, cutting edge trailing) at an angle approximate to your cutting bevel angles. Do not use any force, the strop will do the work, lightest pressure only. Do make sure you cover the entire cutting edge in one stroke though. Do this 10 times one side, then 10 the other. Do the original side 8 times, then the other side 8 times. Then 6 times, 4 times, and so on until you get to 1. The last stroke is a slow long stroke.
I would recommend green chrome first, then blue superfine compound later. You will feel tbe green ' grab' the blade, the blue will feel much smoother. You will see the compounds darken with black streaks. This is your blade material being removed and deposited in the compound. Your bevels will be highly polished if done correctly, which in itself will help the edge pass through material due to lack of friction, thus aiding a smooth cut.
Do this before you go anywhere a stone with your new blade. The stone is to correct wear, flattened edges due to mechanical damage like chopping, chips in the edge, etc. Your blade should not have any of these defects from new if it is a quality item. It may require honing, but i would definitely try stropping the blade first. Think along the lines of polishing versus filing and you wont be far off. Practise on your shit knife first, then when proficient try your posh jap knife.
Warning. It becomes addictive.
Quick tip for you. If you find yourself without your stropping block for whatever reason, a piece of corrugated cardboard makes a decent alternative, but you wont get the superbright finish to the bevel. Use the raw cardboard side not any glosdy printed side. The wood fibres will grab and rub off any edge imperfections surprisingly easily. Watch the cardboard turn black with your blade material.
Also, similarly, a quick way to dull a good edge is to cut cardboard with it.
Practise on your shit knife first
Quoted and plus one'd
Thanks again all for the valuable insights!
Yes - the knife is as sharp as a MF out of the box, and given the hardness (61 Rockwell), I'm not expecting it to need any attention for several months yet - I'm not about to start sharpening it immediately.
So yes: I will be buying a cheap combination stone (400/1000) to practice on over the next few months on the variety of other kitchen knives that we have. I'll add a decent strop/compounds to that list (thanks @johnnymarone) and practice that too.
That way, at the point my new knives need sharpening I'll be able to upgrade the stones and have a go!
While I was shopping for a wooden sheath to protect the blade when stored, I accidentally bought a second knife.... so I fear I may have the beginning of a habit.
This is just my modus operandi: I tend to nerd out about something for a few months until I reach a level of understanding/skill that I'm happy with, is useful (as a hobbyist) and I can retain, then I move on to the next thing. Last thing was espresso - next thing was supposed to be welding, but I seem to be taking a bit of a diversion down Japanese kitchen knives! I'm amazed that things that were once hugely niche and valuable knowledge are just available (for free) on the internet.
This is just my modus operandi: I tend to nerd out about something for a few months until I reach a level of understanding/skill that I’m happy with, is useful (as a hobbyist) and I can retain, then I move on to the next thing.
Welcome to my world. 🙂
This is just my modus operandi: I tend to nerd out about something for a few months until I reach a level of understanding/skill that I’m happy with, is useful (as a hobbyist) and I can retain, then I move on to the next thing.
You will probably end up with 30 to 40 knives if not careful ...
I've got a Global knife that came with one of these in the box:
https://www.amazon.ca/Global-Speed-Sharpener-GSS-01-Silver/dp/B002OHF8IQ
Is it not advisable to use it, then?
The STW pasting pics glitch.
I reckon its unique. Of all the forums im on this is the only one that doesnt allow direct from your pics folder to be uploaded, and it seems even from anywhere else 1/2 the time.
I went down this rabbit hole when I got my first Japanese knife last xmas (got a couple now) and have found just stropping it with a leather strop and green paste has kept it razor sharp after tonnes of use over the last year. Literally razor sharp it will shave hair off my arm.
I use a cheap 1000/3000 whetstone to sharpen the TK maxx Santoku for everyone else to use (as well as get sharpening practice in case I ever do need to sharpen the proper knives.
Gnarfgh!
It's a Global Speed Sharpener.
The really annoying thing is I didn't even post a picture, I posted a link to an Amazon page. Which stw helpfully replaced with an embedded piece of content. Which now appears to have broken (or may fall foul of third party tracking blockers?)
Anyway it's a Global Sharpener, came in the box with an expensive Global knife, and I've been merrily drawing my knives through it ever since. So I'd be interested to know when and how it should be used, because there was no info with it!
My nephew is a chef, and they all just pay to get their knives professionally sharpened. The restaurant's don't pay for it...
I went down this rabbit hole when I got my first Japanese knife last xmas (got a couple now) and have found just stropping it with a leather strop and green paste has kept it razor sharp after tonnes of use over the last year. Literally razor sharp it will shave hair off my arm.
Oh yes, leather strop with green paste should be sufficient as I do that too. If the knife is sharp there is really no need to use force while slicing and the edge will last longer provided your chopping board is not too hard.
I use a cheap 1000/3000 whetstone to sharpen the TK maxx Santoku for everyone else to use (as well as get sharpening practice in case I ever do need to sharpen the proper knives.
You can get rather decent Japanese knives from TK Maxx when they are in stock. Try to get the one three layer cladding because that's surprisingly good for the price. I have at least 6 of them ... arrrghhh ...
From TK Maxx this brand. Get them because they are good and half price. https://www.hamburg-schmackhaft.de/schnappchen-kai-kochmesser-sekimagoroku-4000st-test-tk-maxx/
My nephew is a chef, and they all just pay to get their knives professionally sharpened. The restaurant’s don’t pay for it…
In the far east you can get them sharpen from the knives shops but not very common in the UK. I think people should offer this service a bit more.
@doris5000 - depends really, if you don't want to go to the effort/hassle of learning to use whetstones & stropping then that's probably as good as any pull-through sharpener to use for your knives (I'd assume it's the right angle for the edge on Global knives anyway). Just be aware the compromise for the convenience of a pull-through sharpener is you're removing more metal each time you sharpen (vs a whetstone) and the edge won't stay sharp as long.
Once you learn how to use a whetstone it doesn't take long, 5 minutes to get an edge sharpened on a 1000 - 3000 grit stone + strop (assuming you're doing it regularly and not trying to get rid of chips etc.). Learning to use a whetstone in the first place can take a fair amount of time though and restoring a damaged edge or thinning takes a lot more effort.
It's a good shout from a poster above about just using a strop + paste regularly, that's much less forgiving of technique and will still be useful if you decide to try whetstones later. I'm not sure about using a strop after a pull-through sharpener though, will probably clean up some of the edge damage but also might remove the micro serrations so could end up feeling less sharp initially (never tried it though so I'm just speculating...)
Thanks Fuzzy. What would be a suitable 1000/3000 stone that I could use dry? (Because I'm a bit lazy, and would probably only make a mess). I'm browsing a couple of knife sites but it's daunting! And preferably closer to £30 than £300.....
It's tricky recommending cheap stones from Amazon, I assume they're all much of a muchness but that might not be the case. If I were just looking for a cheap stone to use with a decent knife in good condition I'd probably go with something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/GR%C3%84WE-Wetzstein-K%C3%B6rnung-1000-3000/dp/B00JM6OKY0/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=whetstone+1000+3000&qid=1637672818&s=kitchen&sr=1-5 although this is even cheaper and comes with more stuff (although the 'stuff' is probably useless) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sharpening-Whetstone-Sharpener-Waterstone-Flattening/dp/B07YYC3TP2/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=whetstone%2B1000%2B3000&qid=1637672818&s=kitchen&sr=1-4&th=1
If you have older knives (that aren't in too bad a state) then practice on the 1000 grit side, it's fine enough you won't take much metal off but should be enough to form a burr (which for me anyway is key to understanding the process). When you do feel you're ready to start on the Global knife just use the 3000 to start with, that should be fine to get a very sharp edge on what was already a sharp knife.
Personally I mostly only use a 1000 grit stone for my regular sharpening as it's fast enough (given the knives I'm sharpening won't be in too bad a state) and you can get a good enough edge for food prep. 3000 might be worth it on a very hard steel just to get an even better edge but I can rarely be bothered (you get increasingly small returns on the effort the higher the grit you go).
Mine's a King 1000/6000. 40 bucks delivered.
Works great. Confirmed by the two bald patches on the front of my thighs. If shaving sharp us the goal, I'm 2 up.
The problem with water stones is that they dish in the middle as they are so soft. Its the softness which enables the quick build up of slurry which makes sharpening much more effective. We used to use soft green wheels ,which break down in a similar manner to a water stone, to sharpen tungsten carbide tools before diamond wheels became more accesible.Its the same principal used in both, constantly exposing fresh, sharp grit particles to the metal results in rapid removal of the metal.
I use both water stones and my latest acquisition, a diamond plate , by Trend i think. Not cheap, but I sharpen blades and chisels regularly for myself and my friends so its not a big problem.
Had really good results with both, would tend to prefer the diamond plate for a chisel though in order to get the back totally flat.
You can reflatten the dishing out of water stones by rubbing the face on a piece of emery taped to a sturdy piece of float glass, or, if you have access to one like I do, a granite or cast iron surface table . Draw an 'x ' on the dished face of the stone with a pencil, across the corners of the stone, and rub until all traces of the pencilled ' x' just disappears. Hey presto, flat, but not necessarily parallel, water stone.
But on a new, sharp knife, just use the strops until you really cant get away with it any longer.
You can reflatten the dishing out of water stones by rubbing the face on a piece of emery taped to a sturdy piece of float glass
A granite floor tile works too instead of glass as it's ground flat
...better than my attempt to link to YouTube..it's the lovely old fella from Global. .
Our knives aren't as fancy as the OPs - just Wustof's. I've wasted loads of money getting to something that reliably sharpens - as someones already said most pull through knife sharpeners work by serrating the edge and remove a lot of material
We've had one of these for at least the last 5 years. Diamond coated wheels in the two slots, one to sharpen one to hone. Foolproof, easy, quick. Doesn't remove loads of metal, knives always sharp and blades haven't gone out of shape. Recommended.
