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I’m hoping somebody here has been through this and can offer some advice.
I’m in an end cottage with no ongoing access on my side. I am (as is everybody else on the row of 10 cottages apart from the person on the other end) reliant on everybody allowing a pathway through each other’s gardens to get the bins out if nothing else.
There is, as I type, a gate and a fence going up on the ‘other end’ house. No prizes for guessing the combination of fence and gate. Every house on the row, apart from the ‘other end‘ house will only have access to their own gardens through their own respective houses. It’s in the deeds that this access has to remain.
Has anybody been through similar and can advise of the quickest and/or cheapest way of getting this fixed? “Reasonable” is a foreign concept to the person doing this.
I checked with home insurance co. They’re not interested so it looks like legal action funded by those bothered. Do we have to employ a solicitor? Can we all use to same one and share the cost? Will we get our legal costs back?
Go round with your deeds, tell them to stop.
Pretty sure a gate can be installed but that either it remains unlocked or every house is given a key/combination code. If there is an easement then I don't think they can legally stop access. I don't envy you having to sort it though!
Amended, you and the other eight households go round with your deeds tell them to stop
We had similar with a **** on the end at our old house who decided the shared access was now their drive, my neighbor and I said fine, if you're happy with us scraping our bins and bikes down the side of your car then crack on.
Definitely head over there en masse to make it clear that it's out of order. If you've already done that, to no avail, then it's a solicitor job.
And if any of your neighbours are too spineless to get involved directly intially, involve them by proxy. Use the term 'we', not 'I' whilst waving up and down the row of cottages. They'll thank you in the end and you'll get loads of Christmas presents and BBQ invites.
You don't need legal action, you just need to tell him to stop or leave the gate unlocked. If he doesn't stop or locks the gate, bum his dog with bombers whilst weeing in his wifes shoes.
This is a fight I could do without. Consultation and Fire And Hire is being waved around like a Bhudist prayer flag. I could be very skint in 6 months if the cards fall against me.
No joy on the “Please don’t do this. It will cost us all time, money and aggrivation just to end up with two gates, not one and the same access we all had yesterday”.
“If you throw a pebble into the pond, it will cause ripples”, a shrug of the shoulders and a closing of the door. Mint!.....
Lots of curtain twitching along the row and I suspect “Charlie” will be round in a minute to see how I got on.
Can we get our (or I suspect my) money back if this gets legal people involved?
Injunction to restrain interference with your right of way constituting a nuisance. If, as you say, it's registered against the title of the relevant houses (i.e. your right to pass over the servient tenement - their land) then the easiest way would be to go to a decent property litigation solicitor and ask for a letter before action. The threat of costs should get the stubborn home owner to back down - costs for an interim injunction are likely to be in excess of £20k...
Hammer frozen dogs into his lawn.
If all else fails.
If they lock it, and they might not, remove their lock to ensure you maintain your right of access.
Battery angle grinders are fun!
They might not be aware of your legal right to access. Even if you didn't have it covered in the deeds, I think these some rule about having unchallenged access prior for so many years.
Can we get our (or I suspect my) money back if this gets legal people involved?
Usual rules are loser pays the winner's costs, but even if entirely successful you usually only recover between 60% and 80% of your overall costs. If the loser's conduct is particularly bad, then you may get more, but never more than 90% IME.
To be clear, locking of the gate will be immaterial. There’s going to be a 6 foot fence on “our side”.
Sometimes, I really hate people....
They are very aware that what they’re doing is illegal. Joyce next door heard the joiner tellling them they have to allow access and the very same joiner now doing the work is keeping his head very much down through fear, I suspect that his job may come to a very sudden end.
All speak to him and show him he is wrong. If that fails jointly write to him and show him he is wrong, threatening legal action. If that fails get all neighbours to check home insurance policies for legal protection cover then go legal via that route.
In the meantime, if you are brave just pull the fence (or part of it) down. The police wont intervene as its a civil matter. The exception here is if fisticuffs ensue, in which case have someone filming it and dont strike first.
It will be stressful so buy beer!
Battery angle grinders are fun!
As are battery chainsaws. Make your own gate.
I’ve been interneting. Sawing it is criminal damage. I would love him to take a swing at me. I will very definitely be giving him a week off on bed rest if it comes to that. I had to keep my hands in my pockets when I went round.
Oh dear.....
Put up your own fence just the other side of his gate. With a gate that you and your neighbours have a key for.
Fences fall over all the time!
Put up your own fence just the other side of his gate. With a gate that you and your neighbours have a key for.
Or just install your own lock on 'his' gate. If it's illegal for you to saw down his fence then presumably it's illegal for him to cut your lock off.
Is it a hired company that's installing it? Is it worth a call to their MD? Possibly not the first time they've been involved in this.
I wonder if they are happy to erect a fence where they don't have a legal right to.
Assuming you've shown him your deeds, ask if your right of access is mentioned on his. Could be a genuine mistake that will need sorting out by lawyers, or it might make it clear to him if he has no leg to stand on.
Or get on land registry and get a copy of his deeds. They'll inform him that you have but that might also make him realise you're serious.
You need to knock on everyones door and insist that they back you up. Tell him you'll stick a saw through it if you need to. He'll be laughing at threats of legal action, what are you going to do with your bins in the six weeks it takes to get to small claims or whatever?
Leave all your bins on the other side of the fence next to his house - no point having bins if you can't get them out.
Bruce wee has it
Is the fence going up between numbers 9 and 10 (where 10 is the end property and 9 in their neighbour) or between 10 and the outside world? i.e. is he blocking the world from all your gardens including his or 9 of you from access across his? Or is it a fence between 9 and 10 and a gate to 10 from the outside world?
It is worth fighting it - no access to a backgraden apart from through the house long term would be a significant deal breaker for most looking to buy your house.
He’s blocking 9 of us in while he has gated access to his own garden.
Fossy’s idea might be a good short term option but I can’t see it fixing the problem long term. I suspect my bins will get relocated in a neighbouring county or even a waste skip...or both.
My bikes will need be taken through the house too
Put up your own fence just the other side of his gate. With a gate that you and your neighbours have a key for.
As per the other poster.
Stick your own lock on there. Preferably something that can't be cut, snapped or opened so easily.
Or, when they're on holiday pull the fence down (with other neighbours consent) and blame the localised high winds /mini tornado.
Recently had a neighbour putting up benches under our window in the communal garden (and this after complaining to the property management Co that someone had planted a vege patch that they subsequently had to remove). I went round and kicked the legs of the benches and blamed his poor workmanship. A few days later I took the timber to the tip.
Nightmare. Never buy a house with access like this.... too late.
If you go legal and it costs £20k, yeah you might be awarded some of that back, but that assumes they have that kind of money.
Letter before action worthwhile. Every neighbour should knock on their door every single day to remind them.
Looks like you are gonna have to take it in turns to keep cutting the fence down until they get the message.
You have my sympathies fella. I can't be doing this sort of pointless stupidity.
Is he new to the street?
Get a letter signed by all 9 residents who he is causing a problem for making it clear that the fence is unacceptable.
If that doesn't work then get lawyers involved.
Shirley the solution, is that he fences off his garden in such a way that it leaves access at the back for everyone else.
So either a gate in both fences or enclose his garden on three sides with enough space for access behind the rear fence.
If he genuinely knows that an easement exists and is fencing off his garden anyway then he's an idiot as well an arsehole as he'll just need to pay more money rectify it later.
Folk are bloody weird
Tricky. Mate has a communal lane behind his garden that some homeowners have blocked and taken as garden. So now there are 50/50 who want the lane and don't want it. Shouldnt matter really if only 1 wants it retained, jointly and severally entitled to it.
I'd be telling the fencing guy he is complicit in infringing a right of access and he should stop or be dragged into the case.
Do any of the nine other properties have an indemnity policy for access to the rear?
Often if they have bought a house with easements for access then their solicitor would have asked the sellers to provide a policy.
Have you tried contacting the council?
I would literally stand in the way so the joiner couldn't put the fence up.
I have similar. I own the land but there is an access road over it to my nighbours property
He wants it to be a free for all, first come, first served parking arrangement
Telling his chavtastic kids to move ofc my land, cctv, and a plethora of gawdy signs has temporarily reminded him thathim, his spawn and any contractor working for him dont get free parking, blocking in my garages
I nearly went legal. Was quote 190 an hour for working on letters, quoting deeds. 190 buys s metric f ton of signage off ebay
Looks shocking but at least i can drive up to my garage hassle free
It’s in the deeds that this access has to remain.
For what purpose?
I had a lower ground flat where I could only access the side alley for "maintenance".
In theory, I wasn't allowed to have my bin or bike in the back garden and bring it round the front via the alley.
Had the upstairs owner put a lock on the gate, I could have been in a position where I'd have to ask for the key if I was getting maintenance done.
What? To access the rear of the house, there are thousands of properties like this around the country, it's not a problem, 99.9990% of the time. Masses of precedent of these issues being resolved legally but that's money and grief. This chump just needs putting back in his box.
Edit as above, have experience in this area
For what purpose?
Common wording is 'to pass and repass'. In the absence of limiting wording - like, as you say, solely for the purposes of maintenance - then it is usually construed as being for any reasonable purpose.
Language is also often interpreted in the context of the time it was written - so, for example, reference to 'handbarrows' was used to limit vehicular access along a track behind some houses, but access for 'coaches and carts' was deemed to allow vehicular usage as those were the common methods of transportation at the time the right was granted.
If the OP had decided to conduct coach tours through the gardens to use his facilities in return for payment (for example) then that might constitute an unreasonable exercise of the right (so-called 'excessive user').
That said, even if the wording was limited to 'solely for use to put the bins out', it wouldn't allow the neighbour to restrict access.
I think I'd be keeping my bin where it is, and tipping all my rubbish and garden waste over his fence.
Do none of the households have legal protection on their house insurance that will assist? Even BC or Cycling UK may help a member if it means you can't get your bikes round the back.
Boy racers and gangs of youths isn't it.
Nope it's always middle-aged/old bile filled gammons. Two generations of self righteous arseholes!
The best one's are the ****s that mess with shared accesses when houses (such crude language investment properties) are vacant or take advantage of tenants not knowing their rights!
It's so British to go around requisitioning space that's not your's then trying to add restrictions.
I’d be trying to get the police involved antisocial behavior and local councilor, if it’s going up at the pace you say it is 9 houses won’t be able to get their bins out by next bin day that’s a health hazard.
Or just install your own lock on ‘his’ gate. If it’s illegal for you to saw down his fence then presumably it’s illegal for him to cut your lock off.
I reckon you should totally do this, easier and cheaper than the whole fence. Padlocks are really cheap as well, especially that there's 9 of you 🙂
Seriously, what an utter ****. There's ALWAYS one isn't there, most people rub along nicely but it only takes one miserable bastard to make life difficult for no reason.
As said, this will knock massive value from your property, as plenty of people don't want a garden which can only be accessed through the house. Make sure your neighbours are well aware of this as it should firm up support. Also good advice up there on indemnity insurance for recent buyers. Any new neighbours recently?
People are weird aren't they, things like this make me despair for humanity.
I would actually just cut it down, what a ****.
Nope it’s always middle-aged/old bile filled gammons.
This.
Here's what I would do.......
Send him a recorded delivery letter with copies of the all the deeds, about 3 quid per plot from the LR, usually has a drawing, sometimes highlighted in red showing access rights. Word it in the correct legal fashion (no insults or other waffle) making it clear he has no right to prevent/restrict access to said properties and show it has been cc'd to a solicitor.
Send him a recorded delivery letter with copies of the all the deeds, about 3 quid per plot from the LR, usually has a drawing, sometimes highlighted in red showing access rights. Word it in the correct legal fashion (no insults or other waffle) making it clear he has no right to prevent/restrict access to said properties and show it has been cc’d to a solicitor.
This^
Then in a year or so get someone to beat ***k out of him*.
* Don't do this.
If he doesn’t listen to reason, I’d wait until it was finished then pull the fence panel over between him and the first neighbour where the gate should be. While muttering about how stiff this new gate is. Then leave the fence panel propped up with a note saying the hinges must have been stiff and it fell off.
Piss on his dog, burn his sausages, freeze his wife and hammer baby robins in to his lawn.
I live in a terrace of houses with shared access across neighbours gardens. We're in the middle so don't have access across ours, we have access past the neighbours kitchen on one side to get to the side passage leaving to the street. Slightly odd layout, normally access it as the ends of the gardens but for out terrace it right along the back of the houses at the start of the garden - which is more intrusive.
Here is a friend driving a mini digger past the back of the neighbours house into our garden..
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Our neighbour on the other side has access across 4 houses to get out. Many years ago they got blocked off by their neighbour blocking the gate - it ended up in court and they regained access with all fees paid by the losing party. The losing party is still there are hasn't tried the same trick again, although he's a lot older now and has mellowed a lot with age.
although he’s a lot older now and has mellowed a lot with age
Should have been birched, then National Service, then birched again, then hung.
suspect my bins will get relocated in a neighbouring county or even a waste skip
I'd suggest given that soon you will have no other access to get them out, you and the other eight houses relocate your bins into his/her front garden right now.
I would literally stand in the way so the joiner couldn’t put the fence up.
Do you also think digital watches are a pretty neat idea? (-:
Just climb over with the bins in a "it's a knockout" style each week
I'd also try and get a letter before action out to him and the fencing company. It may stop them.
Get Nick Frost round:
That’s a bit annoying. I used to have my neighbours park all over my access , they had right of access across my driveway but not right to park. They’d block me in and all sorts. I got really fed up with it but one night his car got nicked and he was absolutely convinced I had stolen it ! I hadn’t but it clearly made him sh1t himself that I would do that so I remained silent on the matter.
Could it be a fire escape? Could you ask a local station MASTER? around? This would carry a lot of weight if it's the only means of escape from the rear of the properties.
Could you ask a local station MASTER
Is there a rail track running through his garden as well, how unfortunate is that.
burn the ***ker down.
IIRC if you find a blocked path / right o9f way you have the right to unblock it. Not certain tho. If so would this apply here?
Update (now I've been reminded). The guy has now decided that he is going to remove a fence panel at 8:00am each weekday morning so that we can step over the concrete base to get in and out and he's going to put the fence panel back at 8:00pm each week day evening. We are to knock on his back door between these hours if we need help to lift bins over etc.
Weekends will be "During the day". He's making it harder for burglars apparently. High Peak council were not interested. One of the care agencies for a very elderly neighbour are looking in to what they can do. I get more annoyed every time I look at it.
He knows he's in the wrong and is hoping this concession will be enough to keep his fence, keep gnawing at that bone.
The guy has now decided that he is going to remove a fence panel at 8:00am each weekday morning so that we can step over the concrete base to get in and out and he’s going to put the fence panel back at 8:00pm
What happens when he is on holiday (apart from ripping the whole lot out obviously)?
Update (now I’ve been reminded). The guy has now decided that he is going to remove a fence panel at 8:00am each weekday morning so that we can step over the concrete base to get in and out and he’s going to put the fence panel back at 8:00pm each week day evening. We are to knock on his back door between these hours if we need help to lift bins over etc.
Weekends will be “During the day”. He’s making it harder for burglars apparently. High Peak council were not interested. One of the care agencies for a very elderly neighbour are looking in to what they can do. I get more annoyed every time I look at it.
The bloke’s clearly a full, weapons grade Whopper.
The situation is ridiculous and it can't carry on like this.
Has he never heard of gates? He could put a gate in, get ten keys cut, job jobbed.
If he's planning on lifting out fence panels every week whatever the weather it's hardly an anti-burglary security measure. Besides which, my understanding was that the full fence was between him and the other properties - does he think you are going to burgle him?
Lifting bins? Is this "concrete base" not something you can roll a bin over? I'm assuming one of those concrete post affairs then?
My bins have to out by 0700
I appreciate you might have different bin men
What if you leave for work at 0630 and want to put your bin out then, door knock at 0630 is rather rude
No good, its got to be 2 x gates 20 x keys or combination locks, try not be fobbed off with this lifting out 2 panels every single day, its sounds like utter tosh to me.
Dealing with a holes is very trying, its hard not to be dragged down to their level.
Walks out of back door. Gets bin. Strolls down all of the other gardens. Gets to idiot's fence. Picks up bin chucks it over fence. Chambers over fence. Pick up bin, maybe not all the bits that have fallen out of it. Strolls across garden to the next fence. Chucks bin over the next fence. Leaves it for bin men. Climbs back over fence. Walks back over garden to the next fence. Climbs over that. Good home.
That evening. Repeat in reverse.
If you could get all of your neighbors to do the same thing every week, I think that fence might get removed.
I’d be banging on his door at 6am every morning saying you need to wheel your bike out for your daily constitutional.
I’d be climbing over the fence as often as possible. I’d also be going for some late night rides and coming back at 2am banging on his door for him allow you access. I’d also stand and watch as he lifted the panel and your bin. What a tosser
Polite note explaining that what he is doing is massively antisocial, tied to a brick and delivered through a shut window.
Honestly, the world would just be a better place without some folk in it. If someone is a temporary knob because they've had a bad day, fair enough. This sort of behaviour is something else altogether.
I'd just be removing the fence panels and putting them in his garden. You have a legal right to access. Thats it.
Compromise is an agreement where everyone leaves the table dissatisfied so....
Ok have your fence, but no concrete gravel board ad you cannot lift your wheey bin due to old war wounds
And a written agreement that any neighbour can remove the panels s from 0700 to 2000hrs. So if he is having a lie in after a night on the Stella anyone can / will open the. 2 panels, same of an evening. He wants to mark his territory with fences and really does not want anyone any near his property, despite the deeds and historical access rights.
Actually the guy sounds like such a wgbe that you could open up and pop down the shops and come back 20 minutes later to find the panels in and faffage needed to get back home.
Screw that, burn the thing down
its got to be 2 x gates 20 x keys or combination locks,
"Keyed alike" locks is a thing. But combination locks is a very good shout.
High Peak council were not interested
Really, this is the door you need to be kicking down. Make them interested, it's their job. What have the other properties had to say? It's harder to ignore nine complaints than one.
Councillor, MP, local paper.....
I’d just be removing the fence panels and putting them in his garden.
I'd do this too TJ.
What I'd also do is wait until he was out and cut the panel 2" shorter so when he tries to put it back in it's to short for the gap.
Do you also think digital watches are a pretty neat idea? (-:
Not sure what you're getting at really, probably just being a **** for the sake of it, but yeah some are great. This is mine...
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We are to knock on his back door between these hours if we need help to lift bins over etc.
You should co-ordinate with your neighbours. 1st person knocks, does bin, then leave it a few mins when he’s sat back down and then 2nd person does it and so on.
I work standby. Can get called out any time of day or night. I'd be getting back in the wee small hours and realising I've only taken the key for the back door.
Or, my alarm on sets for an exit out the back door. Is he willing to pay an engineer to come and reprogram my alarm?
I can see we're all trying to keep reasonably civilised, but this does sound like the sort of situation where he should be offered some fist pie.