[Closed] shaping pizza dough

I gave up with flipping etc. Use a rolling pin on a floured surface now. I just roll it a bit bigger than the pan and it easily fills the edges then.

How long between making your dough and trying to shape of ?

With properly proven dough

Never fails me. Certainly not trying to get fancy flicking it about on my forearm.

I hand stretch but my dough tends to rebound back to a smaller diameter. I use 00 flour, what do you reckon....overproved? Under?

How long between making your dough and trying to shape of ?

I use 00 flour, what do you reckon….overproved? Under?

thats what im not sure of either, i use 00 flour too. i think the recipes i tend to use call for between 1 and 2 hours proving, but im interested in which recipes youre all using for dough. im not skilled enough to know when dough is either under or over proved, so tend to just follow a recipe.....

I use a combination of hand stretching and a rolling pin.

Another thing I find really helps is making dough in batches and freezing it. The defrosted dough is (I find) quite a lot easier to work with.

I hand stretch but my dough tends to rebound back to a smaller diameter. I use 00 flour, what do you reckon….overproved? Under?

How warm is dough and how long has it proved for sounds like the gluten hasn't formed properly

1-2 hrs is too short
I made pizza this week using the biga method, 48hrs for initial proving

https://i.postimg.cc/TY1N14LR/2020-05-19-17-03-23.jp g

https://i.postimg.cc/65PjvfnC/2020-05-19-19-40-53.jp g

Just don't do as I did the other week and try to defrost on defrost in he micro

Fine way to get a cold cooked doughball

Watch the Pizza Show on More4 for inspiration.

My top tips

1. Let your mix sit for 30 minutes before you start working on it.
2. Let it prove for at least 24 hours in the fridge before you use it

I make neopolitan style pizzas using a recipe from Stadler Made who also have a series on YouTube describing the steps I mix and knead the dough, leave for 2 hours then shape into balls and leave at room temp for 6-8 hours if I’m eating that day or refrigerate for 24-48hrs. Once ready to go I shape initially on a flat surface pushing out from centre then lift dough onto the back of my hand and tease out with fingers gently as the dough normally stretches under its own weight.

Aye, 1 or 2 hours is nowhere near enough.

Also, agree about freezing, but I shape, then sugo, and part cook before bagging and freezing.

Then just need to take out the freezer, by the time the oven has heated up, pizza is about defrosted, fire on some mozzarella, away you go. The double cooking gives a great crispy base.

Yeah dough goes in the fridge over night. Then gets shaped into dough balls.

Makes a huge difference to how workable it is and also the flavour of the dough.

Rolling pin on floured glass thing. All my oven tins are rectangular, so form dough into a sausage shape and first few longitudinal rolls don't go right to the ends to leave enough spare to roll the corners out on the cross rolls. Lots of flipping and flouring. There's no shop-bought pizza to interest me anymore, just takeaway or home made...

Also, loving sourdough pizza now, nice wee change.

We use the same mix as our sourdough with the same amount of proving. You can shape it easily by hand on the worktop. Occasionally resort to a spin. Never need a rolling pin.

https://imgur.com/a/rKsz5ot#vZE3bpS

ok, so lets say for good dough itll need to be in the fridge for at least 24 hrs.

are we doing stuff like stretch and folds etc while its fermenting (before fridge), same as bread?

so somethings like this....
mix flour water yeast, rest for 30 mins (autolyse), then add salt and mix again.
ferment at room temp for 3 hrs say, with stretch and folds every 30 mins
fridge for 24-48 hrs
out of fridge, rest for half hr or so til room temp
divide into however many pizzas youre doing
then do all the stretching/shaping, loading with food, cook?

sound about right or is that more faff than required?

thanks

Badly, but tastly

I like to leave in the fridge for 10 days til it honks like ****

For shaping if the dough doesn't have enough water it can be a bit tough to stretch. In that case I find I can flatten in roughly with my hands, then leave it under a towel for 10 mins to relax, then it will shape by letting it fall over your hand or arm without any problems. If it is springing back then just let it rest longer

sadex not knowing the mix you are using its hard to say if its lack of hydration, yeast, salt etc. post up your mix

try this http://www.pizzacreator.net/ aim for no less than 60% hydration and increase it when you get comfortable handling a moist dough.

ok, so lets say for good dough itll need to be in the fridge for at least 24 hrs.
are we doing stuff like stretch and folds etc while its fermenting (before fridge), same as bread?
so somethings like this….
mix flour water yeast, rest for 30 mins (autolyse), then add salt and mix again.
ferment at room temp for 3 hrs say, with stretch and folds every 30 mins
fridge for 24-48 hrs
out of fridge, rest for half hr or so til room temp
divide into however many pizzas youre doing
then do all the stretching/shaping, loading with food, cook?
sound about right or is that more faff than required?
thanks

I don't do stretch and folds. If I was having pizzas Saturday evening - I'd make the dough on Friday night following the Stadler Made recipe linked above which I think is 60-65% hydration using strong white bread flour. Mix, knead, rest for 2 hours then portion it into balls, on to a floured baking tray,cover completely with cling or cloths and leave to rest in the fridge overnight. If pizza kick off time was 6pm I'd remove the dough at 2 or 3 o'clock to let it come to room temperature then shape. Bake them on stones with just the tomato sauce on top for 3-4 mins then throw on cheese/other toppings for 1-2 mins.

sadex not knowing the mix you are using its hard to say if its lack of hydration, yeast, salt etc. post up your mix

ive been using this one. its about a 4 hour prove. 64% hydration.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2011/sep/08/how-to-cook-perfect-pizza

worryingly, i was going to have a bash at this bbc recipe, but now looking at it, it seems to be less than 2 hours prove and only 55% hydration so ill knock that on the head.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/how_to_make_pizza_50967

albanach, ill go search for that stadler made recipe on youtube.

thanks

EDIT: i do have a sourdough starter on the go so id like to do sourdough pizzas, but feel i ought to dial in the 'normal' pizza method first before tweaking the recipe....

I just use a rolling pin, What's the advantage of hand stretching it over the back of your arm?

a rolling pin pushes all the yeasty air bubbles out. how many pizzerias do you see using a rolling pin?

i do have a sourdough starter on the go so id like to do sourdough pizzas, but feel i ought to dial in the ‘normal’ pizza method first before tweaking the recipe

In our extensive (had a heavy pizza oven for nearly 10 years now) the sourdough has been the easiest to shape. Even over dough with fast year that's had a 24hr prove or freezer time.

I'd Look at the ooni videos for a starter.

They may not be artisanal but they are simple and work.

In our extensive (had a heavy pizza oven for nearly 10 years now) the sourdough has been the easiest to shape.

and what recipe do you use if you dont mind me asking?

Overview one but they do specific videos

Holy crap this is all new to me. We've had pizza night on a Friday for about 4 years now and been happy with them much, better and cheaper than takeaways but I've always struggled to get them circular. Sometimes we've made them straight away after work even without proving which from the look of this thread would be blasphemy...

It seems like my recipe is more or less exactly the same as the Guardians perfect pizza.

So whats the difference between leaving it in a warm spot for 2-3 hours and leaving it in the fridge to prove over night? Is this more beneficial for a sourdough?

Sometimes we’ve made them straight away after work even without proving which from the look of this thread would be blasphemy…

Used to do that too. Makes crunchy heavy not very tastefull bready dough .

The prove makes the dough much lighter and much tastier

I think the prove time makes more difference than using 00 gauge over regular bread flour.

Can someone quickly sum up what I need to do to prove pizza flour (I use strong white bread flour in a breadmaker). I usually make the dough in the morning then leave in the fridge for the day, taking out about an hour before needed.

What am I doing wrong and how should I do it?

I'm of the opinion that there needs to be some rise time outside of the fridge John, then fridge comes later.

What am I doing wrong and how should I do it?

What's do you feels wrong with your pizza.

I was happy with my quick dirty crunchy double cooked bread pizza style disk till I went to a mate with a penchant for making good pizza and he served up a neopolitan style pizza from his uuni..... Closest I've had to my local Italians 9quid a pop 12 inch pizza. Just a very different experiance.

What am I doing wrong and how should I do it?

if it works for you, then youre not doing anything wrong 🙂

from the answers above and further googling, it seems that the dough should be kneaded for 5-10 mins, have at least 4 hours prove at room temp (or until it about doubles in size), divide into balls, then put in the fridge for any time up to a few days (one website even says a fortnight). when you want to make them, take them out for an hour or so beforehand to warm to room temp again then shape and load.

think thats right.....

Or a slow proove with less yeast and 24-48 hrs in the fridge.

Deffo get it out for an hour or 2 and up to temp to get it workable again

I reckon 2 hours initial prove, then split into balls, then another 30 min, it's enough...

I flatten out the balls.. use a rolling pin to shape into discs, then sort of "stretch spin stretch soon" on a floured work surface.

works well for me..

DrP

Terry, what's your method then, always up for a wee bit of experimentation.

(I use strong white bread flour in a breadmaker

I would use half strong, half plain.  All strong can have too much gluten which makes it difficult to stretch as it wants to come back into a ball

and what recipe do you use if you dont mind me asking?

For sourdough;

Recipe (and starter) came from our local bakery (Hoxtons bakehouse in Southampton) when we did their sourdough course.

The basic mix (one loaf or 4 pizzas) is 450g strong white/pizza flour (we have a large bag of caputo pizza flour but don't alway use this), 100g spelt (or wholemeal/SW/heritage depending on what flavour we are after). 100g starter, 11g salt, 500ml luke warm water (of which its a judgement call how much is actually used, normally 400-450 ish, pizza flour seems to need more). Mix flour and starter, leave for 10 minutes. Add salt and water. Kneed for 10 minutes. Prove for several hours (how long exactly depends on what we are doing that day). Into fridge for long prove till next day. On day out of fridge to warm up. Bench and shape into balls. Rest like this for 30mins then shape into pizza.

For fast action yest we used the one out of Jamie Oliver's 'Jamie at home' book but with a cold overnight prove.

@leffeboy not when proved fully it doesn't.

@johndoh not doing anything wrong if it works. There are many different methods. However we would prove on the side if using the same day and knock it back if it gets too big.

The basic mix (one loaf or 4 pizzas) is 450g strong white/pizza flour (we have a large bag of caputo pizza flour but don’t alway use this), 100g spelt (or wholemeal/SW/heritage depending on what flavour we are after). 100g starter, 11g salt, 500ml luke warm water (of which its a judgement call how much is actually used, normally 400-450 ish

Kneed for 10 minutes.

assuming you go driest mix from your figures (400) then thats still a bakers percentage in the 80s (if my working outs right, not a given), you sure thats right? no way could i knead a mix that hydrated, id have to do stretch and folds or coil folds or somethings.....

I would use half strong, half plain. All strong can have too much gluten which makes it difficult to stretch as it wants to come back into a ball

Good call - I do find sometimes exactly that happens. I do sometimes use semolina flour but I haven't been able to get any recently and Saturday night's 'new normal' is homemade pizza all round then a movie so we are getting through a kilo of flour each week :-O

Agree with sadexpunk, my sourdough mix is 450g to 310ml water (and 100g starter) and that's just about wet enough to handle, any more and I'd struggle.

then thats still a bakers percentage in the 80s (if my working outs right, not a given)

working out may be wrong actually, not sure i accounted for the 100g spelt. assuming 50g of flour/water in the starter, then thats 450/600 which is 75%. still quite wet tho.....

i do a kilo of sifted 00 flour (find it helps make the dough lighter)
20 grams salt
good glug of olive oil

in a seperate jug i do 400ml tap water 200ml of boiling water

add 5 grams of dried yeast to that or 14grams of fresh in easier times..... give in a couple of minutes

mix the whole lot together

tip onto lightly flowered surface and knead for 10 minutes

Chuck in the bowl , leave covered for an hour - chuck in in the fridge over night

take it out in the morning , at lunch time knock it back and divvy it up into 8 dough balls - i think technically it should be 10 but i like a good chunky light inside but crunchy crust on a thin base -

i leave the doughballs to be used to prove covered on a baking tray till cooking time - those that are not being used get clingfilmed and frozen till required.

for shaping i just hold it vertically thumbs in the centre and push out wards till i have the crust formed and then a combo of thumbs and gravity do the rest.

chuck it on the peel and top it before throwing it in the preheated oven on the hottest setting.

turn it a few times in the oven and then after about 60-90 seconds we are done.

Timely thread given my ooni arrived yesterday. I will be aiming for sourdough in the style of the ooni video. So kicking off the starter in the morning tomorroe, then mix and kneed Friday lunch, prove Friday afternoon, split and shape after work and then fridge till Saturday for cooking Saturday evening.

For the longest time my wife has had bad IBS from bread, but it seems sourdough doesn't give her any problems and I love making it, so it's a win-win, I've also wanted a pizza oven for years, so all this stay at home lark tipped me over the edge 🙂

Thanks for the thread @sadexpunk, and if your pizza dough goes like your bread does it should be pretty damn good too!

I'll give that a wee go Terry, cheers, just need to track down some 00 flour noo!

Wee sourdoughpizza instruction video for those interested.

Yeap it's a wet dough, takes ages to get it off my hands and finger hair (shudders)! We have one of these dough boxes ( https://www.bakerybits.co.uk/dough-box-with-lid-41-5-x-31-5cm.html) that really helps with the kneeding (you kneed in it). Shaping bread is done quickly so it doesn't get time to stick. Also needs a fair bit of flour when balled for pizza dough to stop sticking to the side and we put a decent chunk in the proving basket for bread.

Edit: it also vaires by flour. The caputo pizza flour is noticably stiffer for the same amount of water vs bog standard SW flour.

Gave this a shot and it was absolutely great: Pizza Pilgrims - Frying Pan Pizza. Also gives tips on proving times (min. 8hrs, 24hrs optimal, 48hrs max) and shaping the pizza dough by hand.

Key is to stretch it out from the centre and leave approx 1cm from the edge untouched.

For the longest time my wife has had bad IBS from bread, but it seems sourdough doesn’t give her any problems and I love making it

This came up a lot on the course we did as a benefit of proper sourdough. The big issue is that a lot of bread sold as sourdough is not in fact sourdough (it has yeast added in addition or instead of the starter). There is a movement trying to get the name protected so that no added yeast can be used. (Massive over simplification).

Yeap it’s a wet dough, takes ages to get it off my hands and finger hair (shudders)!

you looked into stretch and folds, coil folds or 'rubaud' method for 'kneading' wet dough?

God I miss cheese ☹️

you looked into stretch and folds, coil folds or ‘rubaud’ method for ‘kneading’ wet dough?

I hadn't no but a (very) quick look suggests I should. Of the snippets I just watched our dough looks and behaves like in one of the rubaud videos.

How long!!

1. 1:30 in the breadmaker for the dough
2. Rolling pin to shape
3. Cook (90secs) fire is started when breadmaker has about 15mins left
4. Eat (about another 90sec)

Repeat steps 2-4 until there is no dough left.

The longest part for us is letting the oven cool before I can put the cover back on.

success. 3 great pizzas tonight. i tried the 'hold it up with both hands, let it sag downwards and keep feeding the rim through your hands' method.

not quite as easy as they make it look in the vids, as soon as it drooped down it was stretching too fast and i think if id just held it there it would have torn, so i had to move it quite fast. and i bet it was only 10 seconds or so before they were stretched into shape. probably a little too fast, so maybe the dough wasnt as strong as it could have been, dont know.

some of my best pizzas so far tho....

[img] [/img]

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think now im happier with the recipe and leaving it at least 24 hours in the fridge, ive got a bit more confidence that itll stretch better.

Looks tasty that.

Long, cold proves are all about getting the time, temperature and amount of yeast right. A mate who makes a lot of pizza swears by this app for calculating prove times: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fisico.pizzapp&hl=en

He says drug-dealer scales for weighing out yeast to the 0.1g are useful too.

Ooft, I hope not, I'm trying trailrats method today, it's in The fridge proving atm, used a full sachet of yeast, 7g, instead of the 5g I was supposed to....

Made it this morning, amazed how it's grown in the fridge btw.