You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Whats the current car buying climate like?
Trader/dealer, nice car, up for £4995. Be happy to pay £4500 but if I could get it for £4000 I'd be even happier.
What do you reckon?
try it the worst that can happen is a no, or buy private and get it for around £3500
Only car with the spec and mileage I want within 100 miles is with a dealer at the moment.
my mate used to allways start with a phone call that would take a few hundred quid off sraight away.
yknow if the car is two grand phone up and ask if its worth you coming to see it if you only have eighteen hundred.
i've been known to go to scotland for a car :/....
Get round there and slap it on the table, see what the dealer says. If he starts laughing you could then offer some money.
There is no answer to this as it depends on the value of the car not the price. Too many folks get into a must get a discount and the bigger the better frame of mind. Figure out what the car is worth and make that offer, if they won't take it find another.
Many more dealers nowadays are advertising at what they'll sell for as all the internet advertising means the headline price which is good hits a lot more people than in the past.
It's advertised a good £800 over what parkers value it at but it's done 30k less than there estimation
I would be a bit wary of any dealer who would knock a grand off a £5K car these days. It would mean either it was insanely overpriced in the first place or it's a pup that he really wants rid of. All too often, people get way too carried away about 'how much money off mate' and only realise what they've bought after the dust has settled. If the car is worth buying, anything you get off is a bonus. Good luck. 🙂
Oh, and never ever buy a copy of Parkers again. Really. Never.
I didn't. I used the freebie thing online.
You used to be able to get free glasses valuations through the vauxhall website but it only give trade in values now.
😳Get round there and slap it on the table, see what the dealer says
You can buy glasses guides off ebay easily enough, their prices are more accurate but can still be way off on some stuff.
Is it a particularly rare/random/well specified model? If not then go and see it (they'll take you a lot more seriously than a phone call) and make an offer below what you think it's worth to try and get them down. The key is to know what's it worth to you first.
Generic valuation websites and publications are pretty useless when it comes to working out what a car should retail for, there are just too many variables. They are based on advertised prices anyway. I would be more concerned with lots and lots of history on a £5K car as well as its overall condition.
jam bo - Member
Only car with the spec and mileage I want within 100 miles is with a dealer at the moment.
POSTED 41 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
Just don't let them know that - act like you don't care that much about the car, not that you are desperate for that particular model.
find every niggle you can - especially tyres and service history. Check the make and depth and look for cracks and use them to haggle. Also look at things like brake discs through the wheels.
Go through the service history with a fine toothed comb. Make sure it has had things like cambelt done.
Check how many keys it has. Most cars come with 3 - 2 remote ones and one master key. Use anything like that to knock value off.
And yes, if paying cash then take the amount you want to get if for with you - eg £4,300 and if there is a cash point nearby make sure you can get a bit more for compromising if he really wont go down to it.
Oh and don't turn up in an expensive car (friends/relatives etc) unless you are buying an expensive car.
I recently bought a S/H car from a dealer and like the above I worked out what it was worth to me, took it for a test drive, inspected it and then back in the office said "if you will take XXXX for the car and a years warranty then I am happy to buy it now", not going in low, but saying what I was prepered to pay, we negotiated an extra £50 and that was that. I saved 12% on the advertised price. Im happy, the guy is happy.
Lesson one.
Negotiation is a process of moving someone from their initial position towards your target.
A good negotiator will quickly try to establish what your target is, so that he knows where he has to move you from. So definately don't "slap it on the table" as you have declared your hand. It may be above what he was prepared to reduce it to!
Your toolset is: Key fact; Consequences; Personalised closed question.
1. Key fact = the unarguable fact that acts as a crowbar that you use to prise open the door. eg, that tyre is bald or there is a scratch there.
2. Consequences = Build your case/argument. eg I will have to spend time, cash and effort doing something about it. It is worth £200 less.
Be specific about what you will do if they don't move to meet you. Don't just imply.
3. Closed question = Will you take £200 off the price for that?
Personalise it with something like "Will YOU do that for ME?"
Each time you get any movement at all, it's critical that you thank them for it and take ownership of it, making it difficult for them to try and take it off the table later. Just take ownership and move onto the next "key fact".
The suggestion about phoning first to get some movement before you even visit is a good one. Effectively you want them to move on price just to buy your commitment to come and have a look.
Its a good game, always played slow.
Never, ever, ever say "What's your best price?"
It shows you have no idea, they will walk all over you.
So definatrely don't "slap it on the table" as you have declared your hand.
Yoy didn't get the humour then?
3. Closed question = Will you take £200 off the price for that?
Personalise it with something like "Will YOU do that for ME?"
What if he says "NO!", negotiation over! Try and keep the questions open and keep the negotiation open.
Win-win is the objective.
If you've got a copy of Parkers which shows a lower price for that model just take it in and say "look, I really like that car, but I'm afraid I can't bring myself to pay more than this book says. It would look like bad judgment."
Best to go in on a day when his boss is off, so he has to make the decision himself. Then tell him it's easier to ask forgivness than permission.
That's how I knocked money off my current car.
Offer cash wave it under his nose and walk away if he wont negotiate.
Bought a bike like this from a dealer, I offered low he said now I showed him my wedge of cash. He still said no. I walked. He changed his mind as I was starting my car..
Looks like someone has just been on a 'the first principles of sales process' course... 🙂
Good info from ecky-thump. Couple of other key things:
1) Knowledge is power. From Parkers online get the trade/PX value of the car. That's what the dealer will have paid, and will want to make at least 10%, so that is his bottom line price
2) Check out other similar cars in the area and get their sticker prices. Make out you are not too worried about the extra bits the car has that you want. Say they are a nice to have but not essential. You can then genuinely position that he is in competition with other cars/dealers
3) Phone first, ask questions to show you are genuinely interested and have cash, then make a specific appointment to view and test drive
I think toys is right. Don't play no games.
Don't play no games. = Play games?
What if he says "NO!", negotiation over! Try and keep the questions open and keep the negotiation open
Yes, I'd agree initially don simon, but then sharpening things up with closed questions later as you get nearer to the end-point.
And ultimately yes "negotiation over" is fine. You have established how far they will go.
To help avoid this occuring too early in the process you do need to build some rapport. They will no doubt be keen to establish what it is about the car that appeals to you, so that they can then take every opportunity to "push that magic button". Use this to establish the relationship. The relationship also then becomes something that they have invested time and effort in, which you may wish to carefully leverage for more movement.
Spent ages 'negotiating' on our last car, on the forecourt for £9400. (on their internet site for £9k)
It started with the dealer asking 'how much would you pay to take the car home today' to which I stated '£7k'. I think for the next hour I respond £7k to every question until I got up to leave and he offered to sell for £7500.
Just set your price and stick to it. I was buying a focus for the wife so not like there aren't plenty about...
Don't you think you're over-complicating what is essentially a simple process?
Do you give courses on this type of thing? That is a serious question btw.
I personally wouldn't want to waste all my time doing the dance with DT78 (or sell the car to him either).
what car is it?
toys knows the crack.
Looks like someone has just been on a 'the first principles of sales process' course...
Not exactly, actually on the other side of the negotiating table for a good few years though in a previous job.
Don't get done get Ecky, great advice there.
to which I stated '£7k'. I think for the next hour I respond £7k
At which point he stabbed a biro in your eye...
Don't you think you're over-complicating what is essentially a simple process?
Like most things, it can be as simple or as complicated as you want it to be.
I'd see it more as maximising benefits from limitted resources (i.e my cash) 😀
Do you give courses on this type of thing? That is a serious question btw.
No but I've attended a good few over the years. Real skills for life and always interesting stuff.
One downside of spending too much time thinking about it is that I've frequently had a bad feeling after buying "stuff" that I might have been able to get it for less. Takes some of the fun out of new shiny things. 😥
Real skills for life and always interesting stuff.
I agree and spend a lot of time trying to simplify things and toys19's approach has value, not much style but value. If it's a slow day and you've got time to play, then play. If it's a busy day then my price is 9k, and 9k is not 7,5k, thanks and good-bye. Gut and experience is often a better guide than the over analysed and complicated rules that can be found in the business manuals.
no one ever said I had style, or value..
My only caveat is that if you are always prepared to walk away then you might often find that you don't get to purchase what you want..
I had an experience with this in house buying where our backer who was lending us the deposit pulled out 4 days before exchange, we were stumped and had no where else to borrow the money for the dep. The vendor dropped the price hourly and daily to try and keep us, down 15% from the original agreed price. Would have been nice if we could have got it elsewhere..
Which taught me the lesson that if you walk away you can often make big gains.
My only caveat is that if you are always prepared to walk away then you might often find that you don't get to purchase what you want..
And the same for the seller. Your only regret is not buying at the price you wanted to pay increasing your offer might get you the purchase you want. If you walk away on principle rather than the basis of a good deal, we don't have a win-win... It's just a game. 😉
Waving cash about when going for a deep discount can help a lot - but better on a private seller than a pro.
Anyway, I bought a 2nd hand car for my wife from a dealer recently. What I did was made myself out to be a middle man, negotiating with the dealer saying that I'll try to persuade my wife to go for the compromise prices he proposed. Eventually got close to 10% off the internet price - was listed at more in the showroom. Was prepared to pay a premium to buy from him as in my village and a main dealer but in the end I couldn't find a better price than I paid anywhere else anyway - e.g. Autotrader.
Waving cash won't help with a dealer unless they are the sort of dealer you shouldn't be giving your money to. (Apart from proving you are serious and have the money that is).
A dealer would prefer you signed on the dotted line of a credit agreement as they get commission on that too.
Never, ever, ever say "What's your best price?"It shows you have no idea, they will walk all over you.
I'd say this is a very good starting point, from the response you get you'll get an idea quickly of where there is to go. They'll always ask you to name a price and be talked up better to get them to set the price and talk down.
I've had 3 successes so far using this method:
1 - make the seller aware that you are looking at other cars
2 - don't get excited
3 - find some faults as you very carefully check everything
4 - make calls after viewing to get prices to repair any faults etc
5 - offer less than you want to pay and see what they say. Don't be afraid to let them think, i.e. if they go quiet, wait.
All in my experience - I get £450 off a £5200 car and £400 off a £2500 car last year, but both private sellers. If the cars did not have faults (due cambelt, old perished tyres etc) I would not have haggled so much.
Only time I ever haggled for a car, I was with my sister. Car advertised at 350. My sister asked how low she could go and she immediately said 250.
It's easy when both parties are utterly crap 🙂
proving you are serious and have the money that is).
That is the point of showing the cash, it is cold hard and real. You need to prove to the vendor that you are a viable chance.
A dealer would prefer you signed on the dotted line of a credit agreement as they get commission on that too.
True.
We sold a car a few years ago - a man came round at night in the dark with his daughter and looked at it. I showed him where some minor accident damage had been fixed and explained that it lost a bit of power steering fluid over a few months which caused a groaning from the steering. I then asked if he wanted a test drive and he just said 'no, it's the colour my daughter wants' then offered full asking price and paid by bank transfer within 30 minutes (as soon as he got home). As soon as my bank confirmed the transfer had completed I called him and he came round another 30 minutes later and drove it away.
The most straight-forward sale I have ever encountered.
A dealer would prefer you signed on the dotted line of a credit agreement as they get commission on that too.
Very true... and be careful here, you do not have the same cooling-off period with most car finance agreements, signed on the vendor's premises, that you otherwise have with most personal finance.
It can still sometimes pay to take their crumby finance and then cancel it though but you can seldom get out free of charge. 😕
I got an additional £500 quid off a £7k motor by taking out the dealer's finance. It cost me £50 cancellation fee to get out of the credit agreement the next day though (going direct to the finance company, not the dealer). 😀
If you ask them who does their finance before you visit, you can ring the finance company and establish the cancellation costs beforehand.