[Closed] Setting up a coffee shop - who has done it? Let me know how you did/what.....

What's a bespoke coffee shop? if they call it bespoke, can they charge more money?.

bespoke as in not run of the mill - not just coffee - art/films etc

Showing films? Like a cinema?

Are these films shown in private booths?

nope just normal films on a screen in the corner - nothing weird, sorry to disappoint!!

Is it artisanal as well as bespoke?

If they want to make a profit I'd be having less things to encourage people to sit around there all day instead of grabbing a coffee and going...

Interesting idea. Will the films be used to draw people in? If that is the case be aware of the licensing you may need to show films commercially.

if you want an art-is-anal coffee shop try amsterdam

i suggested 15 minute cartoons lol - get the foot fall moving!!

I set up a coffee shop once, but I ended up drinking all the stock. I tell you, that gave me some sleepless nights!

Beards are obligatory for men as well, lukewarm flat whites, hessian coffee bean bags on sale for a tenner to turn into handbags, costco cakes at super inflated prices, bike repairs, knackered old sofa and if your willing to pay more get super blend of the month

and if your willing to pay more get super blend of the month

Surely that should be artisanal blend of the month with extra beard.

Beards are obligatory for men as well,

Plus someone is missing a trick, surely there is a market for bespoke artisanal coffee for bearded women?

Surely we must have passed peak hipster coffee phase by now?

Location is absolutely key. I work in Birmingham, the places that do well are either on busy thoroughfares or are near where a lot of people work. Those that don't may have the best coffee, the best atmosphere and the best bacon sarny, but few people will walk past 2 other shops to get them. Having a niche is going to help negate some of that, but how many people will go and watch a film in a coffee shop? And how much coffee will they drink whilst they do it?
A friend owns a cafe aimed squarely at the bike crowd (Gorilla Cafe in Kings Heath, go visit!), he does OK but it's hard work and he doesn't make much.

I don't get why you would show films to encourage folk to stay longer...? Surely footfall and turner over of tables is key to profit in a coffee shop.

(Posted while I pass an hour in a coffee shop using free WiFi between meetings)

I have a friend who used to own a coffee shop. She recently closed it however to concentrate on her clothes and gift shops. She said it was really hard work to make any decent money from it, as generally people come in, spend a few quid but stay for a while. It kind of paid for itself but nothing more due to high footfall but low spend.

I have a friend who ran a coffee shop and lost a ton of money on it and another who is currently running a coffee shop. The common theme seems to be the difficulty in finding and retaining staff, the long hours (7 days a week(, plus the low margins. It's not a business I'd start/run.

bespoke as in not run of the mill – not just coffee – art/films etc

So "Bespoke" should be read as "Pretentious"? (Half in jest)...

Which is fine, interesting takes on the good old cafe should be encouraged there's too many Costas and Statrbucks already.

But pick a sensible Location (you'll still need footfall) and affordable pricing and a decent basic food offerings (get on top of your bacon sarnie and carrot cake game) to draw in 'normal' punters on a regular basis, hipsters turning up to sip a soy-latte on the open mike poetry evenings alone won't pay the rent...

I wouldn't. My MD bought one 2 years ago - he's a multi-millionaire who knows how to run a business. It's never made any money and cost him thousands.

He still keeps it as his play-thing though.

As a lifestyle it may suit you (like being a pub-landlord), but to make money - nope!

I looked into this a while back with a friend who runs two great cafes in Brighton already when i got made redundant, there had been two cycle cafes in or near Norwich that had come and gone, and there being so many cyclists and club runs in the area we felt there was a need for a decent cycle cafe.

We found that you have to appeal to a market, he bought his pasty shop in Brighton as that, selling pasties and pies as a going concern and did OK, but having a Turkish wife who makes amazing cakes, and being in Brighton on the Lanes, they gradually morphed into one of the best vegan and vegetarian take away places in Brighton, but it took a lot of hard work, and him knowing what the market appeal would be, every Tom, Dick and Starbucks can do coffee.

Secondly, whatever your niche, special coffee, cycling cafe, showing films etc, you have to be a bloody good cafe first. Whilst you may run a cycle cafe, you have to be a nice place for non-cyclists to come to selling a quality product, to make it a go-er, not just rely on cyclists, or the equivalent that your friend is trying.

lastly, it is long hours, as someone said above, staff retention is difficult, most pay minimum wage and rely on student, young people or part-time staff, he struggled to retain staff and then to find that one member of staff who was good enough and he trusted to allow him to take the occasional weekend off, but they open from 7am to 7pm and they still then go home and bake the cakes and pies for the next day

Combine it with a micro -bar and it may work . Loads of people would rather drink decent coffee whilst their friends drink hand crafted beers at £6 a pint. Spend per head and spend per table much higher. Combine it with Tapas or other quick simple buffet food for another plus point.
Keep it small, keep it simple
Or Coffee bar plus bottle shop?
If you can get enough people in there so it has an atmosphere , and a queue outside , and a 1 out / 1 in policy then people join the back of the queue FOMO mentatlity, wanting what you cant have , wanting what every one else is having

We live near peak hipster central Cambridge (Mill Road) and we just lost a Costa Coffee this month, closed down. Maybe we have passed peak artisanal beard growth...

Isn't it more likely that the Lumbersexual types shun Costa for the artisanal places instead?
Also Whitbread sold Costa to Coca Cola recently, so they are probably rationalising the estate.

I think Costa is a franchise model, so the franchisee probably closed it down as it wasn't making enough money.

I put a friend of mine in touch with (I think Rob2) on here a few years ago who was doing the same.

She (my friend) never made a bean (pqrson the pub) but her friemd who opened Damascena around the same time in Moseley did quite well and opened another one or two branches.

Lunge, do you ride with the Gorillas??

I would be wary.
15 years ago, you could make 4:1 average on stock cost, now it’s hard to make 3:1. Stock prices have risen a lot, together with substantial wage increases, whereas the prices you can charge haven’t really.
Unless you have a very healthy turnover you will probably struggle.

.. +1 for very wary.
Friends here bought a local corner shop and chip shop. Closed the corner shop, turned the chippy into a coffee / sandwich place. All the folk nearby were full of "oh, we'll be round regularly". For various location and personal reasons, it didn't work out, someone else took it on - closed. Someone *else* took it on - now closed again.

Other places in town can support the concept, but for that location, I don't think it was good enough to make a success...

Lunge, do you ride with the Gorillas??

Sadly not, it's the wrong side of Brum for me. I pop in occasionally for a beer or a brew.

id really like to own a little coffee shop but as others have suggested i cant see how you could make it pay.

the only thing i see working near me is actually a costa.....

I have looked at a few and cannot see how they make money. Staff costs, rent rates just kill it.

The places I see doing well are coffee snacks in the day, full meals at night. So a pretty full offering 14 hours a day, interspersed with coffee and cake in the snack times.

In an affluent area, say teddington sw london, there must be 20 coffee shops. The one offering above format has queues, the others tick by.

Combine it with a micro -bar and it may work . Loads of people would rather drink decent coffee whilst their friends drink hand crafted beers at £6 a pint. Spend per head and spend per table much higher. Combine it with Tapas or other quick simple buffet food for another plus point.

Better off buying a paper shop near a school, sell allsorts, papers, morning rolls, drink, sweeties, fags and chips to the schoolkids, sorted. 😉

art/films etc

Art doesn’t sound that niche to me. Is the intention to try and sell overpriced art to prop up the sales?

Bet you just just end up getting students arty farty types in.

How do you decide when to start a film, and do you restart it every time someone walks in? Plus the noise of a film would get on my nerves !

A bit like above, the best shop i have ever seen was a shop in London called "Hops, Burn and Black", all they sell is craft beer, chilli hot sauce and vinyl records

this https://www.tastinghouse.co.uk/coffee coffee shop in Reading has piggy backed onto a wine bar. So, they're taking a site that's mostly evening, and operating during the fallow hours. I'm assuming helps spread the costs, and hours etc

Also means you can pop in for a coffee, and come out with a decent bottle of wine

As others have posted above it is hard work and you have to think carefully about how you will make money. Look at the fixed costs you have (business rates, rent, staff), add in the stock costs and then see how many coffees / teas / beverages you need to sell each day to hit that number. Only doing beverages is going to require significant footfall, so finding an excuse for keeping people in where they may only have one drink is not going to help you. My brother has run a café in Southampton before and made it work. He sold up a couple of years ago but is now trying again but with a Bistro. There are a couple of keys for him that means he will make it work. Number 1 is that he is experienced in the catering industry and knows how to make the numbers on food and drink work. Number 2 he is a quality chef and has worked in a few decent restaurants over his time, as head chef in quite a few of them. So, that means he can do all of the food for the Bistro leaving him fully in control of managing the numbers and margins on all the food and drink. He also doesn't have to pay a decent chef to come in and do it for him. All he needs are some good waiting staff to keep the customers happy and liking the place. I am immensely proud of him and what he can (and has) achieve but it is, without question, incredibly hard work. And he is happy enough to live on a thin wage as he doesn't really have any needs or big financial ambitions. If your friend is passionate about it and is able to properly work through the numbers and see it make a profit then go for it. But go in with eyes wide open and not tinged with unrealistic dreams of untold riches. Restaurants are probably easier work to make better money because the spend per customer is generally bigger and the profit on what they consume is greater. But it takes time to build a reputation and to maintain sufficient numbers coming through the doors.

this> https://www.tastinghouse.co.uk/coffee

I like the look of that....

I like the look of that

Both parts are very nice

Are these films shown in private booths?

oh i laughed

Open up a Dutch coffeeshop. You'll make a killing on cookies and muffins.

Another coffee shop a few miles from in Shirley has turned in to a bit of a restaurant in the evening - staying open late on Thursday and Friday. They're licencd too which is cool - also helps that it's run by very attractive Italian born twins.

I've never understood the open 7 days a week opening for small cafe places. Yes you need to be open at the weekend but there will be a day during the week where takings are flat, probably Tuesday or Thursday when it would be a good idea to take the day off.

Local to work everything to the North shuts on a Monday! If you're aiming at a cycling clientele these are the people that take long weekend breaks and ride Friday and Monday as part of the weekend. We also have places that shut at midday on a Saturday and re-open on Monday. I'm hoping it's for sound business reasons but struggle to understand what these are. Strava shows that the passing cyclists have the road a deep blue on the heat map.

I've a full size MC-05 Cunhill grinder for sale.....

price?

Same as one of mine, I need a spare, how much?

One cafe owner I know sells local crafts to top up sales. She said it's really hard work keeping the hygiene rating at number 5.

Another cafe owner in our town is a coffee shop/tea room/bakery and patisserie during the day, then during the evening another couple take it over as a gin joint, bistro affair.
The coffee shop owner nearly had a nervous breakdown a couple of years ago dealing with rude and inept staff.

I'm thinking you friend needs a few more strings to his bow other than coffee and short films.

If that is the case be aware of the licensing you may need to show films commercially.

Theres a license you can get that allows you to show any bought media publicly so long as incidental / background to the service you're offering. Its not that expensive. If you visit a cafe and something happens to be be playing that its fine with that kind of license. If you invite people / publicise on the basis that a given film is screening at a particular time then, even if you're admitting people fro free,it doesn't work for that. I've been to one or two places that have old silent B&W films showing.

Even though they are noisy places - mainly because of the noise of the coffee making - people tend to go to cafes either to think (if they're on their own) or chat so you'd not want films and dialogue that intrude on that. The noise of a cafe is a bit like the sound of fountains in city squares - its white noise that blocks out distraction. (thinks back to how difficult at was to maintain conversation in my local pub when Rita Sue and Bob Too was screening on a tv in the corner)

Art-wise. Don't bank on getting any meaningful income from it if you're not already a capable promoter of art. Some people might be flattered by an opportunity to show their etchings, maybe once in a while someone might buy one and thats nice for everyone. What you're really getting is someone gullible to decorate your cafe for free and feel like its an 'opportunity'. There'll be absolutely no shortage of takers for that. But making any money from sales and offering decent opportunities to people who exhibit is a whole different thing.

I know two people who ran coffee shops and both said that you don’t make any profit in the first 1 to 2 years.

I owned and ran a specialty coffee shop in Bath for several years.

It's very hard to make money. Decent coffee isn't very scalable - as you get bigger costs still increase dramatically.

Gross margins look good on paper, but once you factor in rent and rates (enormous in Bath, probably not as bad elsewhere) and staff costs, the margins become much slimmer.

Equipment and the aesthetics of the shop are crucial, but don't go mad. An EK43 grinder is expensive, but you can easily cope with up top 1200 coffees a week on a single one. Because you single dose with them you can run multiple coffees without the need for multiple grinders. I'd go for a used espresso machine that's in good nick - La Marzocco, Kees Van der Western and Victoria Arduino would be my top choices. Slayer and Synesso are also good but troublesome.

Water filtration is important - buy the water for coffee book by Colonna/Hendon and source the correct filtration system for your area. I wouldn't recommend RO.

You can offer quite a bit of food at an A1 location without needing to change it to A3.

Best locations are generally away from the high street, but not too far away, or, alternatively, near to a large number of businesses. Lawyers and IT types seem to be the best customers in terms of proportion who regularly drink coffee and will pay for a premium product. If you take a look on Google Maps, the most successful coffee shops are Small St (next to law courts) Baristas (near to lots of businesses, and FCP, which is right in the independent part of town.

It's not easy, and I chose not to renew my lease at the end of it, but I made some long lasting friends and really enjoyed it when things were going well (less so when it wasn't, but that's life).

JP

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