You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
My brother has had no end of bad luck with his vehicles, and after multiple breakdowns with his 2008 Ford Galaxy in two weeks, is in need of another.
He does A LOT of motorway miles, needs at least a seven seater, and his bottom line is reliability.
The question is: after years of trying the bangernomics route, and having little luck, is leasing a serious option?
I have personally always shied away from the idea, but he is thinking that some sort of lease will allow him a bit of peace of mind, or is this a false economy? Should he just bite the bullet and buy a new car that has already depreciated (say a former lease model or something) using a decent finance deal somewhere? But then would he just be exposing himself to yet another possible lemon?
So, what would STW do? Lease? Buy? New? Used? Car Supermarket?
Help!
You need to give us a clue as to monthly budget/ capital he’s willing/able to spend.
Leasing worked for me when I could afford to write off £300 a month in return for hassle free motoring, but that was a golf, not a seven seater.
He'd really need to look at excess mileage costs for a lease based on your description of useage.
Why not try Ling?
LING LING LING - I hear she is like Beetle juice!!
Good point! I’ll just have a guess that his budget would max out at about £300/month.
Like me, he suffers from from low-income-syndrome. So less would be better. Much better.
Ling is?
EDIT: never mind.
3 year old low milage just had its first mot mainstream car Cash buyer .
Loan from.compare the meerkats or similar .
Aftermarket warrenty if your that sort.
Statistically (although there will always be outliers) you won't get better value trouble free motoring for a significant period.
Especially if on low income as you have an asset you can move on if said low income goes away and settle the loan....plenty story's of folk being stuck to mid term or paying to exit leases.....likewise don't talk to my mate about leasing lemons.....his leased golf r is never out the garage for faults. Seems to have french electrics(if you believe the hype about french electrics....I don't)
Also what sort of breakdowns are we talking.
Many breakdowns I hear of have been because folk ignore warning signs over the weeks and months leading up to said break down and believe that a car that's passed its MOT is a road worthy and reliable car.
Mechanical sympathy is king.
His breakdowns have all been fuel related. Just driving along, then suddenly no fuel feeding to engine. Different mechanics have all tried to diagnose to no avail. He has spent hundreds have bits replaced only for the problem to recur 48 hours after getting the car back.
But that’s my description. The precise nature I don’t know.
3 year old low milage just had its first mot mainstream car Cash buyer .
That’s what I always do.
It’s already taken the massive hit on depreciation but still has a chunk of manufacturers warranty left.
Ex-motability cars can be a gold mine for this. They’ll be well maintained and low mileage usually
I'm also of the opinion that mechanical sympathy and understanding is needed to run cars up to big miles.
How many miles annually?
How many miles on the Galaxy?
Oh, and three of our four last cars have been 3-4yr old ex motability cars.
Trail rat, re low mileage 3yr old car, what's best way to find these vehicles and have an idea of realistic price to pay?
It seems to me that these vehicles are no longer available as a private sale so only through garages (via autotrader etc.) and the prices all seemed to be high, pushing me towards buying new and using Carwow etc. To see what a reasonable price could be.
His breakdowns have all been fuel related. Just driving along, then suddenly no fuel feeding to engine. Different mechanics have all tried to diagnose to no avail. He has spent hundreds have bits replaced only for the problem to recur 48 hours after getting the car back
The problem may be the mechanic not the car. If they are failing to find the problem and fix it why are they charging money and why does your brother keep going back?
Trail rat, re low mileage 3yr old car, what’s best way to find these vehicles and have an idea of realistic price to pay?
The boom in leasing means cars that age are largely going to be coming from commercial rather than private sellers
I think it comes down to cost verses certainty.
The risk of unexpected bills and failures from a banger needs to be offset against consistently chucking money at a lease for a new car under decent warranty.
That car may still fail, but just call the AA and get a replacement while it's fixed for free. That certainty drives some of the regular cost.
Running costs on new cars are lower, and fuel economy is also better, so some of the monthly costs may be recouped e.g. no new tyres for ages.
Here's a £250 a month 7 seater on 10k miles p.a. with £750 upfront. Unless he does galactic miles, I reckon £300 a month is doable.
Citroen Space Tourer Leasing.com
And to the point above, even a new car needs mechanical sympathy to avoid problems.
There's no single right answer.
How many miles is A LOT? If he's doing over 10k per year you can probably rule out leasing.
I reckon 5 year old cars are a sweet spot. Based on not much rigorous evidence.
I found the same on main dealer forecourts.
Unfortunately car supermarkets in main hubs lend them selves to this you just have to resist their upsales and their finance offers will be horrific.
Last one we traveled to Edinburgh from Aberdeen.
Found an ex motability Peugeot partner in top spec with a few options whos window price (not sale price I understand how that works ) would have been c.20k .
At 3 years old with 5600miles on the clock for 8900 quid.
Seemed a no brainer to me. Peugeot local dealer couldn't even get me a new one in 3 months.
There is a garage chain recently set up called imperial. Their model is to buy 3year old, leased company cars and sell on.
I found them great and most cars have decent spec, full service, warranty and ok miles.
What is a lot of miles?
Every time the subject of leasing comes up on here and people explain how cheap they find it once you factor all the other costs of ownership, it piques my interest.
Then i look into it and realise they must be talking about fairly low mileage lease options.
The last time i did any research into it, a fairly mid-spec mid-sized hatchback was gonna cost £400+ per month for the miles i do.
The problem with the 3-5 year old market is that you can spend 10-15k at £250/month on a loan and still get a car that is a mechanical and electrical pain in the arse.
Modern cars have so many more things that can go wrong and they're often non serviceable parts, like a wheel bearing that is no longer just a bearing but a whole hub.
My current VW falls into the flaming nuisance category. It's a nice if somewhat dull car bought at around 4 years old but it's had plenty of issues for a now sub 90k car that had 40k when bought. Unscheduled repairs have averaged somewhere between £50 and £75 a month over three years and I'd guess nudging around the £2-2.5k level in total now. On top of which I've had £600 of age/mileage related scheduled items that would barely have fallen due on a new one.
I will probably buy at this age/price point again but I do so because my hobbies (biking and sailing) are not kind to interiors and accessories like tow bars and roof racks are too spendy to be replaced every three years. I just go into it eyes open and knowing I can afford to be annoyed by experiences like we've had with this car.
Our Focus bought at that age has been a gem though! Just fearing it's pending cambelt change if tales of £1000 are true. I'll spend that and not cry too much though. Lovely little car.
If it helps, I've just had a C4 Grand Picasso on hire for a couple of weeks. Dull, dull, dull but it was comfy, ergonomically sensible and seemed quite frugal. I guess they depreciate hard so could be worth a look.
I would say from my limited experience that if looking at a C4 the auto has got to be worth a look. The manual is ok on the motorway but if driving in hilly areas or round town it needs constant working of the (very slick/light) manual gearbox to keep the engine quiet and pulling smoothly. A 6 or 7 speed auto would suit it much better.
Ps I finance mine through savings and an unsecured loan. Unsecured loan rates are cheaper if you have a decent credit score than dealer finance as the dealer finance puts extra responsibilities on the lender who then prices for that risk.
His breakdowns have all been fuel related. Just driving along, then suddenly no fuel feeding to engine. Different mechanics have all tried to diagnose to no avail. He has spent hundreds have bits replaced only for the problem to recur 48 hours after getting the car back
Similar symptoms here - high mileage 2009 2.0 tdci galaxy. Prior to breaking down I had an intermittent problem where the fuel gauge would drop to 0 for a few mins then start up again. Had this for a couple of years, finally engine cut out on the M1.
My garage replaced the fuel pump, it's buried inside the fuel tank so it's a pig of a job. Now that it's replaced it's been fine (crossed fingers) and done a couple of thousand miles since (Finale and back) and the fuel gauge has behaved itself.
Not a pretty vehicle - but he should be able to get a recent Grand Tourneo for under £300 a month...
...just spend a weekend going round the car dealers and see what they've got - £300 is a decent budget. But don't buy on 1st visit, just leave your number and tell them your looking at other vehicles.
We buy 2/3 year old cars and it's worked for us over the last 20 years. We pick cars based on their position in the reliability charts. Apart from tyres, I can't remember any costs apart from yearly services, which is non main dealer.
I bought mine at 33k miles, although it was 5 yrs old iirc.
The advantage is if its reliable and you keep it then you can for a very long time as you known its history and faults. A £500 bill might write off a £500 car to some people but if you've had it for 8 years then you can rationally look at that as less than two months finance on a replacement and as long as it doesnt start doing that every other month then its still good value (unless you intrinsically value a new car).
Depending on his budget he could pick up a people carrier less than halfway through it's 7 year warranty with Kia or 5 years with Hyundai? Then any potential problems are the dealers? A second hand diesel Kia Carens could still have £30 VED too.
The problem with the 3-5 year old market is that you can spend 10-15k at £250/month on a loan and still get a car that is a mechanical and electrical pain in the arse.
Yeah you can do that on a lease too.
Just walk up to the one you want and press triangle.
Modern cars have so many more things that can go wrong and they’re often non serviceable parts, like a wheel bearing that is no longer just a bearing but a whole hub.
That makes it a hell of a lot easier to replace though. I much prefer it.
I really don't think a 3-5 year old car is going to be any less reliable than a 1-3 year old one. Sure, you get a warranty with the former, but you could put all the money you saved aside in case you need it for repairs, but you'd still come out ahead.
If you do the sums, it'll probably still be cheaper, just less convenient.
I found 3-5 prices to be skewed to the high end . Just didn't represent good value.
For example 5 year old version of my car with 45 k on are being advertised for 6.5k reasonable regularly . I just don't see that as good value.
Yeah you can do that on a lease too.
Yes very true and I've been there too (another VW) . It had a year of regular faults including an ECU failure but the difference is you drive to the local dealer, toss them the key and drive off in a courtesy car.
I'll be still in the 3-5 year old camp next time I expect. I think what I was sort of trying to say was don't spend every penny of the monthly budget if you're going secondhand at that age of car and don't believe it will be trouble free.
The predecessor to the current car was awesome for reliability. I bought at 42k miles, sold it with 167k on to someone on here. It had never broken down, barely cost me £1000 in unscheduled bills over 8 years (excluding a clutch and dmf at 100k).
Buy at 3 yo
Expect £1000 a year depreciation
Sell at 10 yo
Way cheaper than a lease.