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I was just in my Sainsbury's Local a bit earlier getting a few bits and as I was walking in a bloke rocks up on his bike, legs it in to the shop and starts filling a bag up with steaks and meat, the staff ran up and were trying to get the stuff out of his bag but he escaped with a fair bit of it, apparently they can't touch these people (they had no security guard at the time) and he and his accomplices do the shop several times a day, they average nicking about £400 worth of kit every day. As I was leaving they were just doing the Co-Op over the road, total scuzzers.
The woman in the shop said she's had knives pulled on her so essentially they can't do anything. I had no idea this was going on in my local little shops on such a large scale every day.
It's fairly common - I'm told even in this sleepy little suburban town the charity shops get visited regularly! And I believe Police Scotland still treat it more seriously than many English forces. The odd bit to me is not that stuff gets nicked, but that there's enough of a market for nicked stuff to make it worthwhile. Who's buying nicked steaks? Who's buying charity shop clothes at enough margin to make it worthwhile?
They did a thing on Radio 4 the other week where they were interviewing retail staff in various shops who were recounting exactly the same story. Apparently assaults on retail staff has gone through the roof to the point where they are specifically told not to challenge shoplifters.
People are desperate, so will nick stuff themselves or buy stolen goods
The police are chronically underfunded and understaffed, with bigger fish to fry
The entire chronically underfunded legal system if totally ****ed, so your chance of ending up in court are zero, and even if you did the prisons are full so you won't be jailed. You could get community service or whatever but theres nobody to enforce it so nobody does it anyway
Who’s buying nicked steaks?
Just guessing, but probably people who like eating steak but don't want to pay full retail for it.
Common near me too - Aldi are raided often, local Co-Op too, and even Icelend, the latter two having security now.
What got me the other week, I was in there shopping, guy comes in and raids the first two fridges. It was full of 8 items for £10, so low value. He was out the store before the staff could reach him, although they gave chase and came back with some boxes the thief had dropped. It's the same people all the time.
I do wonder why I pay for stuff sometimes. Our two local co-ops get completely emptied as soon as they're re-stocked. All the meat is now in alarmed triggering package. Given that they walk in and steal it without a care, unsurprisingly it's not had much of a deterrent effect.
The street drinking community just help themselves in Greggs, they even browse.
Police do not GAF.
Who’s buying nicked steaks?
Two steaks are a tenner, minimum, so anyone who can't afford 10 quid plus for their evening meal. Thats an awful lot of people.
When I lived in Salford, I could sit in my local in the afternoon and there would be a constant stream of shoplifters in trying to sell you pretty much anything known to man, all with shop tags still on, where they'd just been lifted from
It's almost as if the police have been chronically underfunded for over a decade, had their numbers cut by 20,000 by the Tories in 2010 and have to live on wages which have fallen by 17% in real terms since Y2K with a predictable knock-on affect on recruitment and retention.
And that's not even starting on the fall-out from failing Grayling's privatization of the probation system.
The lady I was chatting to said the police won't attend anything that's less than £250 in a single theft, so no consequences for them whatsoever, coffee, red bull etc are prime targets too, they come in to the shop two or three at a time and split up, they sell it round the local pubs, apparently.
Staff shouldn't have to put themselves at risk, but they could be issued with tasers, that would be fun.
When I worked in a well known wine merchants 20+ years ago we had people walk in and pick up cases of champagne and walk out casually. It was far more common in London, but as our shop was close to a main road with good, quick escape routes they targeted us regularly.
I've got very expensive (locally reared, pedigree Dexter cattle) steaks and beef joints in my shop at the moment, they are the only thing we ever really have nicked..... 🤷♂️
See hatters point. End of story.
Remove the law, things become lawless
It’s all the same, single problem.
Is it really? As you say yourself:
some people take advantage, some are just desperate.
That sounds like two separate problems. And to make three problems, there is what Hatters said:
police have been chronically underfunded for over a decade, had their numbers cut by 20,000
So really it is several problems converging to cause this, each one of which needs to be addressed to fix it.
Who’s buying nicked steaks?
I would imagine that not every single butcher's market stall is 100% legit. If they know that the supermarket up the road has no steaks in stock, I'm sure they won't mind buying a couple more in at well below market cost, unwrapping them and sticking them on display
Who’s buying nicked steaks?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/22/leeds-shoplifters-customers-black-market
The consequences need to be more severe.
Put the meat on the top shelf, then the steaks will be too high.
as I was walking in a bloke rocks up on his bike, legs it in to the shop
Have you seen the cost of bikes these days? Cycling's an expensive hobby, so a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do to feed the n+1 habit
it’s shocking that this is what is becoming of society in some places.
I agree it's shocking that our society can't provide the jobs, benefits and public services that enable people to live healthy and secure lives without having to resort to crime and the black market. We get what we 'pay' (we don't actually pay, the govt does) for, and right now that's an everyone-for-themselves anarchic shitshow.
And yet some people seem to be doing just fine.. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/10/when-17m-isnt-enough-ftse-firms-plead-to-pay-bosses-millions-more
People with little cash who are offered it cheap? Been going on for years.
Yeah I realise that - but I'm just surprised that there's enough people who will buy steaks from someone "unknown" and "a bit dodgy" down the pub rather than just have some other cheap food from a trustworthy source instead... I've heard of whole shopping trolley's worth of stuff getting nicked - how many "end customers" do you need to offload that stuff before it needs chilled etc?
Two steaks are a tenner, minimum, so anyone who can’t afford 10 quid plus for their evening meal. Thats an awful lot of people.
BUT 1. they can afford whatever the nicked price is? and 2. they can afford to be wherever you get approached by nicked meat suppliers? I realise not everyone has my moral compass but tucking into a nicked steak whilst you wonder where the money for the leccy meter tomorrow is going to come from is a bit odd. I dare say some of the customers could afford the full-price product but just want a "bargain".
When I lived in Salford, I could sit in my local in the afternoon and there would be a constant stream of shoplifters in trying to sell you pretty much anything known to man, all with shop tags still on, where they’d just been lifted from
i'm not going to the "right" pubs! But clearly threy have a bunch of customers willing to buy it, a landlord who must know whats going on and other pub customers who aren't buying but are neither so morally outraged to complain nor to stop going to that pub... ...we'll blame the shoplifters, but actually there's a bigger chunk of society all complicit.
a landlord who must know whats going on and other pub customers who aren’t buying but are neither so morally outraged to complain nor to stop going to that pub…
Must be nice in your world. If I didn't drink in pubs where dodgy stuff went on I'd spend my entire life sat in front of the telly.
but are neither so morally outraged to complain nor to stop going to that pub…
You try being morally outraged in Salford 6. You’d have no time for owt else. And complain to who? It was the only pub in the vicinity (flat roof with two Alsatian’s on it, obviously) you could drink in and stand a reasonable chance of making it out of alive. I wasn’t going to jeopardise that, was I? 😂
Agree J-R, my point was really really sloppy!
What I meant, is that they're all manifestations of scaling back of investment in social fabric.
The continued approach of GDP over national welfare as the benchmark of 'success' leads to chronic failure in every area.
Must be nice in your world. If I didn’t drink in pubs where dodgy stuff went on I’d spend my entire life sat in front of the telly.
My world is nice. I don't feel obliged to go to pubs at all and certainly not to ones where dodgy shit is going on. I don't spend my time in front of the telly - too much fun to be had arguing with people on here!
The consequences need to be more severe.
Put the meat on the top shelf, then the steaks will be too high.
Marvellous. I don't care if you nicked it from Twitter.
Friend managed a high end sport shop prone to shoplifters. Caught one and dragged him out the back door and beat the living crap out of him. Shoplifting problem stopped.
Actions and consequences. Doubt the Coop staff can do it though which is a pity.
The continued approach of GDP over national welfare as the benchmark of ‘success’ leads to chronic failure in every area.
We've not done very well in terms of GDP either.
We've had 14 years of chaos where all that was used as a benchmark was the personal ego of a few ex Eton half wits playing one up man ship against each other.
there would be a constant stream of shoplifters in trying to sell you pretty much anything known to man
I once observed (with some amusement) a pissed Irishman purchase a duvet and two pillows in a pub in Longsight in Manc. Must have been some sort of peace offering to his Mrs to show that his afternoon hadn't been wasted.
Marvellous. I don’t care if you nicked it from Twitter.
Not Twitter, I suspect it's older than that!
A slightly repurposed Tim Vine joke I think perhaps.
me neither, but that's where it goes on (apparently) Someone I know was telling me only last week about a guy who goes round the pub on a Friday night taking orders, you come back on Saturday afternoon and pay half of the labelled price for whatever he's got you!!i’m not going to the “right” pubs!
My late partner would regularly come home from her shift at B&M and tell me about yet another trolley runner having it away on their toes with a load of stuff, often alcohol, going out the door. Also regular stories about young kids coming to the till with a couple of items worth a couple of quid and trying to pay with a £50 note.
Staff were told to never attempt to stop any runners, and £50 notes were refused regardless of who was holding it.
I don’t know if trolly runners are still an issue, as I don’t have a connection to the store.
Two steaks are a tenner, minimum, so anyone who can’t afford 10 quid plus for their evening meal. Thats an awful lot of people.
What is the black market price for a couple of steaks that RRP for £10? £4 maybe? Question is, if they can afford £4 for their evening meal, is there another £4 legit meal they could buy instead, but they prefer the steak and are too numbed by their life experiences and the culture they live in to seeing anything wrong in making that choice?
When I moved to Sneinton in Nottingham in 2005 I walked into town past a pub that had a massive printed sheet of paper that said
NO SHOPLIFTERS
I never drank there
Last time I was in the UK there were security tags on steaks, butter and the booze was locked away.
What a shit-show
Doubt the Coop staff can do it though which is a pity.
I dunno, they've done it in the past.....😁
Story behind the picture is that the kid had been walking in stealing alcohol, getting drunk with his mates in the park opposite. Manager called the police, who wouldn't attend, I think the above is about attempt/shopping trip no 5 of the day for the kid.
Unfortunately for the manager it made national (and international) news, kid was 16.
When I worked in a well known wine merchants 20+ years ago we had people walk in and pick up cases of champagne and walk out casually.
I grew up in the next town along from Tilbury.... The off-licences back then had nothing but a service hatch and after 7pm they would only serve you via the outside hatch.
When I was in my teens I worked in a restaurant. One of the chefs came in and had a pair of white woman's trainers for sale. Beth the old kitchen porter asked if he had them in a size 6. Henry said he didn't steal to order. This must have been '98 so it's far from new in my experience and far from new overall. Why do folk buy stolen steaks? Same reason folk buy stolen bikes, stolen blockbuster videos.
The shoplifting that is going on would make your eyes water if you saw just how bad it is getting. It is one of the reasons I am getting out of retail after 35years. My store loses just under €500k a year. I heard a company stat a few years ago that we lose more money than B+Q makes. And you wonder why prices are going up. I spend half my time dealing with it and it's soul destroying. Look at how many shops in the States are pulling out of places due to theft, it won't be long until it happens here. For many it's just not worth it anymore.
What is the black market price for a couple of steaks that RRP for £10? £4 maybe? Question is, if they can afford £4 for their evening meal, is there another £4 legit meal they could buy instead, but they prefer the steak and are too numbed by their life experiences and the culture they live in to seeing anything wrong in making that choice?
Have you ever had any actual contact with the real world as lived by a significant chunk of this countries population?
Millions of people are on the absolute bones of their arses
I doubt steaks represent even the tiniest fraction of the food shoplifted from supermarkets. Lots of people are buying food off shoplifters because other than food banks it’s the only way they can feed their families
Got to love reading threads like this, welcome to middleclasstrack world.
Have you ever had any actual contact with the real world as lived by a significant chunk of this countries population?
I doubt steaks represent even the tiniest fraction of the food shoplifted from supermarkets. Lots of people are buying food off shoplifters because other than food banks it’s the only way they can feed their families
Not saying that's not a real thing....
But you live as self confessed a middle class life as I do - what marker jockey doesn't ? Is your life not 'real world'. I'd say it's absolutely the real world. It's just not a hand to mouth version of real.
But why don't you have a guess at answering the question anyway - what is the black market going rate for a couple of steaks do you think? It's not going to be free is it? There will be cheaper options, even if they are equally dodgy. So your black market steak buyer is not buying those instead of a food bank & there will be options between the two.
You can't privatise the Police. Well not directly. You can make the situation so bad shops and even private residence have to pay for their own security. And apparently you and your friends can even make money from that just by underfunding the police. Its a win win.
In the good old days I worked for a big supermarket in a number of London stores. The shoplifters knew which stores they could or couldn't go for based on how much of a kicking they got when they 'resisted'. These days I'm pretty sure the staff are told not to get involved, knives are far more common and is some steak or booze worth dying for?
I’ll take some jumbo Irish oats and a couple of boxes of crunchy nut cornflakes please
But why don’t you have a guess at answering the question anyway – what is the black market going rate for a couple of steaks do you think? It’s not going to be free is it? There will be cheaper options, even if they are equally dodgy. So you black market steak buyer is not buying those instead of a food bank & there will be options between the two.
Ever met any smackheads? They’re the ones actually doing the robbing. If they’ve got a pair of steaks and you offer ‘em a couple of quid they’d take it because that’s a couple of quid closer to their next wrap
#middleclasstrackworld
well, you'd be wrong. Cheese surprisingly popular too!I doubt steaks represent even the tiniest fraction of the food shoplifted from supermarkets.
Ever met any smackheads?
My cousin, don't meet him too often mind, what with him being a smack head.
I think you're doing down smackheadanomics a bit there though. I reckon they've got a better grasp of worth than that.
I'd challenge your assumption it's all smackheads though. Some yes obviously, but not all.
The bulk of shoplifting is not people stealing to feed themselves. They steal thi gs they can sell. I believe the most stolen items are cosmetics, alcohol, razors, clothing, electronics. Food is well down the list. I wish I was just dealing with people stealing to feed themselves but I am not, I am dealing with addicts , kids and career shoplifters mainly.
I think you’re doing down smackheadanomics a bit there though. I reckon they’ve got a better grasp of worth than that
You’ve clearly never met any smackheads then, as there’s generally not much economic theory involved with total desperation
We used to do all our Xmas shopping without leaving the pub. You grow up in inner city Liverpool, that's just how the world is.
Thirty years ago I started in retail. The only shop on the rank that had no shoplifting problems was the offie - because you went in, there were floor-to-ceiling kevlar screens, and you got erved through a hatch. So it's always been a thing, just seems to be getting more and more brazen.
I'm quite sure it's far more about drug habits than the cost of living. We lost the war on drugs as soon as we started; might as well legalise everything as it's available everywhere and at least the supplies would be clean and cheap.
When I moved to Sneinton in Nottingham in 2005 I walked into town past a pub that had a massive printed sheet of paper that said
NO SHOPLIFTERS
I never drank there
Is that a confession?
You’ve clearly never met any smackheads then
I refer your honour to my previous post.
You’ve said you’re related to a smackhead that you never see. I’m related to a telecoms sales director who I never see. I have little interest in his life either
I nipped to b&q Trafford park pre Xmas middle of a Saturday in daylight and as I parked up noticed a small car right outside the entrance left engine running and empty, I thought that's odd, 5 seconds later 2 men came out with a cooker threw it in the boot and sped off, it was a built in combo oven/grill so could have been used to cook Chateaubriand bought from local smackheads?
Top tip:
Always go for bags of Muesli or oats, as you can stuff them inside a hoodie easily. Those family sized boxes of Shreddies are a pain to conceal.
Thirty years ago I started in retail. The only shop on the rank that had no shoplifting problems was the offie – because you went in, there were floor-to-ceiling kevlar screens, and you got served through a hatch. So it’s always been a thing, just seems to be getting more and more brazen.
I remember walking into a corner shop/off licence in Wigan, everything neatly laid out on shelves on three walls, behind floor to ceiling perspex/glass with a little serving hatch. That was over 30 years ago.
How long before we have to tap our cards before entering a shop - like pay at the pump petrol stations? And amount would be ring-fenced depending on the value of the goods in the shop and released when you buy something or leave.
How long before we have to tap our cards before entering a shop – like pay at the pump petrol stations? And amount would be ring-fenced depending on the value of the goods in the shop and released when you buy something or leave.
Amazon physical (self service?) shops already do this iirc.
Target in the US has removed or allocated self service tills to it's subscriber customers only in some of its shops.
It's endemic round here and I suspect pretty much everywhere.
There is a *tiny* little coop in a village near here called Borstal (yes, it gave it's name to the institutions donkeys years ago) that's down right terrifying even as a mere customer. Luckily I dont need to go in there these days but an ex of mine worked there back in the late 90's and I was terrified for her. I dread to think of what it must be like now. Even back then a young girl was threatened with an axe one night.
The coop near where I live now is still targeted regularly though.
I often sit on a grass bank opposite it during the Summer just to watch the world go by when I'm going stir crazy indoors. Regularly see either a single guy or a whole group raid the place and leg it spilling stolen produce from their overflowing baskets as they leg it. I feel sorry for the only guy that works there as when it kicks off the other workers and customers look to him to do something and he understandably is a bit reluctant!
I know by reputation a few of the guys that target the place regularly to fund habits and I wouldn't put my life on the line for a bloody steak or a salmon.
When I worked in big Charlie Browns Autocentre back in the day we would actually give chase as there were about 20 blokes there, half of them pretty big car fitter types.
I remember a frw benny hill chases around the car park, across a busy road junction and into a big car park behind! 😁 By that time most thieves had run out of puff (rubbish cardio, most of them😁)and I was heavily into my first MTB phase at the time and skinny as a ferret.
I ran down one guy and he promptly pulled a screwdriver on me. I didn't have a bloody clue what to do as I can't fight my way out of a paper bag! Luckily an ex mate of mine worked there and he saved me from the infamy of doing a reverse Benny Hill as I was chased back to the shop. 😁 He's an ex mate as he could be an utter shit sometimes but I'll never say he wasnt a damned good mate on a few occasions too.
It's a terrible time to work in retail now, my heart goes out to those that work in the small shops in particular.
legs it in to the shop and starts filling a bag up with steaks and meat,
A braising thief by the sounds of it.
It's a mystery to me why we don't subsidise fruit and veg.
Who’s buying charity shop clothes at enough margin to make it worthwhile?
err…they’re not buying them, they’re stealing them. Margin is great no matter what price the clothes are sold on for. I don’t think shoplifters are concerned with EBITDA and trading margins.
I saw it happen in our local M and S about 6 months ago.... absolutely bizarre, three youngsish people, two lads and a girl, they seemed to be acting a bit strangely (wee practically walked in at the same time) anyway, as soon as the meat aisle we free they just stuffed as much as they could into some bags and casually sauntered off!
One of our friends works in the store and apparently it happens about 4 times per week and is often even more brazen than what I witnessed. It doesn't really offer a particularly positive endorsement of our society.
Sainsbury local the worker confronted this guy who’d been shop lifting. They squared up to each other and met heads (like footballers do). The shoplifter took his head back and went to head butt this worker but withdrew at the last micro second. This worker did not even blink and just shouted “get out now.” Nails.
I spoke to the worker afterwards and he was South African. He said “I’ve experienced much worse than that.” He carried on serving other customers. Class.
There will be cheaper options, even if they are equally dodgy. So your black market steak buyer is not buying those instead of a food bank & there will be options between the two.
Maybe you're not a Tory voter but this is Tory ideology in a nutshell, the myth that it's all about good and bad life choices when the reality is that it's all about luck.
And who doesn't like something nice for dinner from time to time?
Have you seen 'I, Daniel Blake'? Well worth a watch if you haven't.
This must have been ’98 so it’s far from new in my experience and far from new overall.
In the late 90s in Nunsthorpe I remember waiting in a house for a delivery and there were open wardrobe displays of items for sale
My own aunt claims she shoplifted her way through nurse training in London in the 70s... A teenager that only dined on M&S food must have seemed rather posh then I guess.
But why don’t you have a guess at answering the question anyway – what is the black market going rate for a couple of steaks do you think?
Come on @binners , answer the question you dodged twice! You're sneering at #middleclasstrackworld for being oblivious but when it comes to sharing your own insight...
Does anyone really think the dash and grab hooded thugs are buying steak for their saturday night weekly treat? Those struggling to feed themselves are the ones being thwarted by security tags on cheese, the shop raids are bordering on organised crime.
And then you've got the desperate people looking for their next fix. I saw a scuffle the other day in Brighton, they chased off a female shoplifter and after picking up all the cans rolling around in the street the staff were discussing why she had just gone for a 12 pack of coca cola. Probably as it was the nearest thing she could grab when spotted (apparently she'd been in several times that morning already)
I think the endgame is to make all shopping online and remove traditional shops all together. We won't leave the house for much in 10-15yrs from now.
Come on @binners , answer the question you dodged twice! You’re sneering at #middleclasstrackworld for being oblivious but when it comes to sharing your own insight…
Dodging questions?
The price for 2 steaks being sold by a shoplifter in a flat-roofed pub is the same as the price for anything being sold by a shoplifter in a flat-roofed pub
The price is whatever they can get. There isn’t a price list. It’s been nicked and I would imagine that they’re not carrying a fridge with them so they need to shift it fast. So if Tommo sat at the bar says ‘I’ll give you 2 quid for them’ then what’s what they’re getting for them, maybe 2.50 with a bit of haggling
We all know, somewhat depressingly, that when we’ve had a bike nicked that’s probably a couple of grand worth, that it’ll probably have been punted on to someone in the pub for 50 quid, tops. That’s how this works. It’s just what pays for the next fix the quickest and it’s a desperate game
Sadly it's a common occurrence here in NZ
people load up their trolleys and walk out, staff are advised not to challenge incase things get violent
In fact a month or so ago in Sydney Australia a member of the public and a security guard were stabbed by the thief when she was challenged
Reading that through about the potential punishment makes me wonder what it would be in the UK these days
(slapped wrist and be on your way??)
Just listening to Radio 4 now, as being frightfully middle class that’s what I do in the morning over a decaf Americano.
They were talking about Birmingham and the effect that the 300 million in cuts over the next two years is going to have. The council have pulled all funding to charities. They were interviewing someone who runs a food bank and they asked her what difference it would make to them
Her answer was that the difference is whether some people will now be able to eat or not.
What effect do you think that’s going to have on the shoplifting rates in the local supermarkets?
Now apply that across the country
I think the endgame is to make all shopping online and remove traditional shops all together. We won’t leave the house for much in 10-15yrs from now.
People have been saying this for over 10 years.
Does anyone really think the dash and grab hooded thugs are buying steak for their saturday night weekly treat?
If you're referring to my comment above you've taken it out of context. I was responding to convert querying why there was a market for stolen meat.