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"Would you be just as upset if it was a naming ceremony instead?"
I probably wouldn't be more inclined to go...
I do not want to turn this into a religion good / religion bad discussion. People have their views and that is cool - I have no desire to change them, just no desire to participate in them.
how many of us, given a choice, would go to work every day? For 40 years?
I would, they pay me so it's a net benefit.
Doing your own thing all the time doesn’t make for the healthiest of relationships long term either – if you are in one.
True, but you could equally say the same of NOT doing your own thing ever. Being in a relationship may involve compromise, but that doesn't mean you have to be surgically joined at the hip 24/7. Been there, done that, got rather ill in the process, not doing it again.
No-one ever enters a relationship thinking "this is great, think of all the things I won't be able to do any more!" It's supposed to enrich both your lives, how exactly does putting up with someone you hate all day do that?
Here she gets to spend a day with her friend, you get to go do something fun that you want to do, everyone's a winner. If she can't spend a few hours of her life without you being three feet away then you've got bigger issues than a christening.
Why would a Muslim not want to attend a Christening if he is friends with the parents? I fairly sure that apart from the Fundamentalists, this wouldn’t be a problem. I would happily call him names for it.
/shrug
I was just curious as to whether people would think that was a more valid reason or not.
A few years back I asked a Muslim friend about the notion of me sending Christmas cards to my Muslim neighbours and whether he thought it was a good idea or not. He said he'd consider it offensive, I can't remember his exact reasoning now but it was something along the lines of giving support / credence to other religions or some such. Granted, this is from a sample pool of 1 and I've no idea whether he was particularly 'fundamental' or not, but I wouldn't expect he'd have been in much of a hurry to attend a Christian religious service.
I wouldn’t expect he’d have been in much of a hurry to attend a Christian religious service
Why not?
Muslims believe in Jesus just as much as Christians do and revere him as a Holy Prophet.
Just not THE Holy Prophet.
Assuming it’s a Christening you’re on about (or similar event) then it’s not actually about God or Churches or anything else. It’s a cultural thing about celebrating the fact that a child has been born to your friends, and they’ve asked you to be around them as they celebrate that.
The last Christening I went to was absolutely about "God or Churches or anything else," the mother was particularly goddy. I was actually becoming a godparent (despite me being a devout atheist and not overly liking children, remember what I said earlier on this thread about not learning to say "no"?) and was, shall we generously say "somewhat misled" about what the ceremony would involve and my role therein.
Why not?
Well, I'm sure it's possible that he'd have been offended to receive a Christmas card but overjoyed to be invited to a Christening, it just seemed somewhat unlikely to me.
A few years back I asked a Muslim friend about the notion of me sending Christmas cards to my Muslim neighbours and whether he thought it was a good idea or not. He said he’d consider it offensive,
Sounds like a small minded bigot to me. Especially as Jesus is one of their highest "ranked" prophets.
I used to work with Muslim crew who would celebrate Eid, with some really good ****stani food and invite everyone. They even gave you beer.
but I wouldn’t expect he’d have been in much of a hurry to attend a Christian religious service.
So he wouldn't want to be involve in celebrating the the birth of their friends child? Seems very strange to me. Not sure where Religion really comes in to it.
"So he wouldn’t want to be involve in celebrating the the birth of their friends child? Seems very strange to me. Not sure where Religion really comes in to it."
It's not a celebration of the child's birth at all - it's to celebrate them into the faith. to quote;
"Baptism is about cleansing sin, so why should it be given to a newborn that hasn’t yet had the chance to sin? This is another common question explained thus: When Adam originally sinned in the Garden of Eden, his sin was inherited by the whole of humankind. It’s to remove this original sin that’s present in every human being that christening is performed. Sometimes christening is regarded as a vaccine against sin, something that protects and cleanses the child on its arrival into the world. However in the present day, it’s more generally thought of as a means of welcoming the child into the Catholic faith"
Source : https://www.littledoves.co.uk/catholic-christenings/
And thus, why I wish not to participate.
And thus, why I wish not to participate.
You can attend without participating. You won't burst into flames.
You won’t burst into flames.
Do you know this for sure? He seems overly keen to avoid setting foot in a church. Getting splashed with the holy water might be a genuine hazard if he is one of Satan's minions.
I wonder whether if the OP didn’t want to go to a Christian event because he was a devout Muslim rather than ‘only’ an atheist you’d all still be lining up to call him names?
Don’t see that it makes any difference, if the reason for not attending is as simple as not respecting someone else’s choice of faith and being a decent person about it, then yes, the same response would be given.
“Stop being a dick about it and grow up”
(In the case of the OP though, there is obviously a secondary issue of the wife’s friends dickish partner camping over for the weekend)
I think jate pretty much nailed it.
It's their day, not yours. Be a good bloke & support your wife, that's how these things work.
She probably thinks he's a bellend too, but he's the partner of her friend.
I can sympathise and personally would want nothing to do with any religious ceremony no matter what it was supposed to be celebrating. Assuming you are strongly against the religious aspects then its a matter of personal integrity and I would hope that your wife would not pressurise you into taking part in medieval rituals knowing how you feel about it. it probably boils down to integrity and how much you want to stand by your own belief in rational thinking as playing a part in this type of nonsense only serves to help keep it alive.
you have been very thoughtful in removing yourself from the situation and at the same time letting them stay at your house etc, it will be interesting to see how 'Christian' these people will be when it comes to accepting your reasons for not wanting to attend.
that only gets you out of the ceremony, you may have to attend a meal afterwards which wouldn't necessarily be unreasonable.
I can sympathise and personally would want nothing to do with any religious ceremony no matter what it was supposed to be celebrating
So you wouldn't attend a Religious Funeral of a relative or friend?
no, but I would attend the gathering afterwards. its a difficult position to be in and I have attended churches in the past but to attend is to condone it and for me at least its a step too far bearing in mind everything it represents.
Yes you are being unreasonable.
I agree with you though and would want to do the same though.
I would however, depending on the friends/how upset my wife would be, bite my tongue and fall in line.
Unless this was sprung on you without any discussion yes you are being unreasonable - and even if it was two wrongs do not make a right.
Not so much the missing the ceremony - but the disappearing for the weekend bit
Sounds like a small minded bigot to me.
Entirely possible. I used "friend" loosely before, he was a work colleague. And he was an odd chap, truth be told.
So he wouldn’t want to be involve in celebrating the the birth of their friends child? Seems very strange to me.
Read the other part of your post again. (-:
I don't know whether he would or not, it wasn't a question I asked at the time. I was merely speculating that someone who would find a Christmas card offensive might be similarly offended by a christening.
If anything I'd have thought it more likely to be the other way around, someone perhaps wouldn't want to attend a religious ceremony which conflicted with their faith but would appreciate a token of well-wishing in the spirit it was intended. But as I said, I'm only guessing. People, hey?
So you wouldn’t attend a Religious Funeral of a relative or friend?
I'm not sure as that's exactly the same thing. With a christening the religious aspect is front and centre, as scruff said earlier. It's literally the only reason for the ceremony to exist, all this business about it being a celebration of birth or whatever is just special pleading. At a funeral the religious aspect is (usually) a secondary concern.
That’s very true thinking about it again. At the end of a funeral the person is burnt or buried. At a marriage they are married. I can see why my attendance at these might be considered reasonable even if I totally don’t dig the faith aspect. But a Christening is the welcoming to a club. A club I neither belong to or approve of. It would seem almost indecent for me to be there both for my sake and for the god bothers.
We need to consider the really important elements here. Is there a decent buffet at the do afterwards?
You may ultimately be compromising your passionately held beliefs, but...
Pork pies!
Life’s too short to do things like this. I’m with you OP. I’d actually go further than you and tell Tweedleprick he’s a prick. That way you massively decrease the chances of seeing him again. Forward planning.
Mrs F wouldn’t even ask me to do what you’re been asked due to the fact we’ve been together so long and she knows me. I’d never ask her to be around people she thinks are a dick or ask her to attend events that she didn’t want to either. Might explain why we’re still married and rarely argue.
We need to consider the really important elements here. Is there a decent buffet at the do afterwards?
I never considered this element. Find out what food is being offered if you can and report back.
Do not listen to the snowflakes above saying your been unreasonable
And it's part of being married absolute twaddle
You married her not her friends and under no circumstances does that mean you have to put up with this
Sadly as it seems you've gone past the point of saying that prick isn't staying in my house or already lost the bottle of been able to say no
Part of been married is being 100% honest with the other person even if they may not like it .
Yes there will always be times when you have to compromise with each other but not with each others friends .
Put a tent up in the garden asap and pray to God your not the one sleeping in it
Everyone loves a good buffet
Even god is partial to a sausage roll
An ecumenical question for you Binners:
Would god approve of Greggs vegan sausage roll?
Any sausage roll is a good sausage roll in the eyes of the lord
Can't you just hammer a frozen sausage up his backside. If he appreciates the gesture and sticks around it's no loss and he won't be using one of your chairs either.
Or, go for big bike ride, swing by buffet on way home, hoover up every single vol au vent in sight, then do some lunges or glute stretched in your tightest lycra.
Any sausage roll is a good sausage roll in the eyes of the lord
Cool. I could almost be convinced to become a pastryfarian.
I wonder whether if the OP didn’t want to go to a Christian event because he was a devout Muslim rather than ‘only’ an atheist you’d all still be lining up to call him names?
I wonder if, like the OP, you need to get over yourself?
Seriously, very little is being required here. Attending church for an hour is hardly forced conversion, and I say that as an atheist. As for the house guest, I dare say that the OP's wife is crazy about all of his friends, but tolerates them anyway.
Put a tent up in the garden asap and pray to God your not the one sleeping in it
Good troll
I have a lot of sympathy about the friends staying over at your house for the weekend, your wife should definitely have checked with you before asking them especially if you think the partner is a prick.
But the part about not attending the christening is a bit selfish in my opinion.
You are being reasonable.
In the past I’ve done this sort of thing, my girl has ended up having a lot of fun with her mate, while I’ve been expected to give up my weekend to entertain tweedleprick. There are people saying marriage is about compromise, but where exactly is your wife compromising in this situation?
I’d give your wife a few options. You’ll spend a small amount of time either:
Going to the ceremony, OR
Spending a bit of time with the couple, OR
Look after Tweedleprick for a couple of hours so she can spend some time with her friend.
The rest of the time you will be out on your bike/round at your mates till after her friends have gone to bed.
And you’re right, indoctrination is precisely the word for it.
Go for a ride in the morning on your own then join in the ‘fun’. You’ll feel good having had a decent run out and will be bright eyed and bushy tailed for the evening do.
A few years back I asked a Muslim friend about the notion of me sending Christmas cards to my Muslim neighbours and whether he thought it was a good idea or not. He said he’d consider it offensive, I can’t remember his exact reasoning now but it was something along the lines of giving support / credence to other religions or some such.
Captain Bullshit strikes again !!!
I wouldn’t be happy about having a “prick” staying over in my home and annoying me. So, I think him being invited to stay (Presumably by your wife) is unreasonable. However, I would still go the ceremony and meal - at the very least its time with your family.
Seriously, very little is being required here. Attending church for an hour is hardly forced conversion, and I say that as an atheist. As for the house guest, I dare say that the OP’s wife is crazy about all of his friends, but tolerates them anyway.
^^This.
You appear to be viewing this through the lens of a grumpy, cantankerous old man OP.
Unless the ceremony is at some super mad US style evangelical setup, they're unlikely to be trying to convert you.
As an adult, you should be able to respect, tolerate and appreciate the varying and differing beliefs of others, and politely get along with that. A christening ceremony is - as others have said - mostly a celebration of new life. It's a joyous occasion. Please don't tarnish the parents' memory of the day by having so e need to make a petulant "statement" and avoid it because of an irrational avoidance of anything you deem "religious".
I've been to ceremonies (birth, wedding, funeral) of pretty much every religion (and none) - nobody has converted me, I wasn't offended or smited down, and I took part where appropriate.
You win no points either with your wife or anyone else making a stand like this.
As for the guests - that's again just something to suck up in the name of marital support/harmony and politeness. You should always be able to be polite and civil even if you don't like someone. We're talking basic life skills here...
As always, 2 things apply:
Rule 1
and
"Happy wife, happy life"
Lighten up, change your mindset, you might just enjoy yourself and meet some interesting new people.
There is a bit in the c of e service where the god parents say 'with God's help we will'. Apparently it is not the done thing to give a short suck through your teeth and say it in a sarcastic way.
It is a ceremony about society, believing in god is not really the point.
If it were me I'd put up with it and be extremely nice, but use the points to negotiate 2 days away in the future, because you know, she didn't ask you and now you have to make cancellations and so on, but you are so understanding etc.
I'm totally in agreement with andyrm^^^^
Make an effort for your wife's sake; it won't hurt;go along - you meet might new people; smile.
As for 'indoctrination' - are the parents regular churchgoers and strong believers in religion?
If they're not then the christening is more of a special social event than a religious one.
Even if they are, indoctrination is still a very strong term to use and ignores the child exercising free will.
As an example...my parents were staunch catholics so i was christened, baptised, taken/went to church regularly as in 2 or 3 times a week, went to catholic grammar school. At 16 I said...I'm exercising my free will, this is not for me and stopped.
I go into churches occasionally - mainly because they are great places for quiet contemplation and older ones are architecturally interesting.
Take Tweedleprick to one side and have a quiet word. Make it plain that you can't stand him/dislike him/want to punch him in the face and you're only putting up with him for your wife's sake. That way, he'll probably never want to stay at your house again anyway. Alternatively, he'll tell his missus, who will immediately fall out with your missus, and you'll go out on the bike to escape the sour atmosphere anyway. You can't lose.
What andyrm said.
Haven't read the whole thread, but even if it was sprung on you, given she is after all your wife, should you not tolerate what is actually a very minor mistake in the grand scheme of things, and suck it up?
Next time you meas up slightly how would you like to be treated?
Fine to make sure she knows you are not pleased (for the next time) but really you have a level of responsibility to support her anyway.
It isn't all about who is wrong and who is right and points scoring. It's about being a supportive partner.
Also have you tried to empathise with her feelings on this? And the position you may be putting her in (whether through her own making or not?) By effing off for the weekend you may put her in an embarrassing position (e.g. she made committments you'd be around etc).
I'm in the 'suck it up' camp here. Make it plain you don't like the prick to your wife but don't **** the weekend up for her. True, you don't have to like her friends but being married does mean you should probably tolerate them from time to time. It's one weekend (and probably not all of it).
Get yourself a weekend away planned with mates or a bike park or something. You'll have points in the bank to spend so use them.
I'm thinking of odds, any more I'm missing?
OP is going to suck it up 11/10
OP is going to have a strop on all day 11/8
OP is going to walk out of church service near the end because "he thought it was the end" 2/1
Tweedleprick turns out to be OK after a few drinks 3/1
Tweedleprick tries it on with OPs wife 50/1
OP tries it on with tweedlepricks wife 40/1
OP goes to cultist induction ceremony, hears the wise and caressing words of the MC, realises the error of his heathen life, pushes the baby out of the way before dunking his head in the altar and being embraced in the soft bosom of the lord - 100/1
Hey Google, what's "Nominative Determinism"?
convert Subscriber
OP goes to cultist induction ceremony, hears the wise and caressing words of the MC, realises the error of his heathen life, pushes the baby out of the way before dunking his head in the altar and being embraced in the soft bosom of the lord – 100/1
Is there a free buffet?
Some things are far more important than religion.
🙂
OP inserts Tweedlepricks toothbrush where the sun don't shine and with a smug smile, places it back in the toothbrush pot. - EVENS
Captain Bullshit strikes again !!!
I beg your pardon? Who exactly do you think you're talking to?
This isn't something I read on the Internet once, it's a conversation which actually happened between two actual people, and I know this because I was actually one of them. Unlike you.
If you want, PM me and I'll send you the LinkedIn profile of my ex-coworker so you can ask him yourself.
If your missus knows you can't stand tweedleprick, look at as an opportunity to get some brownie points. Get a bike ride in first thing in the morning, too.
No point being a drama queen over the ceremony either, unless it includes child circumcision in which case you're allowed to faint.
Understandable; yes, reasonable; probably not, depending on the dynamics of your relationship. I’ve sucked up similar with good grace, because I’ve no doubt my other half would allow me similar leeway.
I don’t agree with all the religious ceremony apologists though; christenings and their other faith equivalents are amongst the most sinister of all the ceremonies; something to do with the lack of any form of informed consent on the part of the child. It’s only because it’s always been done that we are immune to it’s innate weirdness. If it was Ron L Hubbard presiding we’d probably object more strongly...
Discussed it with my wife. Consensus is that I'd be granted a morning pass for a ride to avoid the religious things. Then spend the rest of the day with the party etc (wishing I was out on the bike).
I reckon it's pretty straight forward - In this situation I think I'd probably support the missus by going along to the christening, but I'd be finding stuff to be 'busy' for the rest of the weekend; if she hadn't asked if it was ok for Tweedleprick to stay, then she can't be upset if I'm not there.
IF you do burst into flames, make sure it's filmed