[Closed] Selective outrage - double standards?

Are ISIS a major ally of the UK and US?
Do ISIS receive billions in funding from the US?
Do ISIS buy large quantities of US and UK weapons?
Do ISIS claim to be a wester style liberal democracy that upholds human rights?

Pointless thread. Ignore.

Pointless thread. Ignore.

Why?

Do you think genocide should be ignored?

Google has 936 results for ISIS+Iran on singletrack so it's not really being ignored?

[url= https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=singletrackworld:isis+iran+site:singletrackworld.com&client=firefox-a&hs=MIn&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&biw=1552&bih=915&gws_rd=ssl ]https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=singletrackworld:isis+iran+site:singletrackworld.com&client=firefox-a&hs=MIn&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&biw=1552&bih=915&gws_rd=ssl[/url]

[edit] there may be more but isis on its own brings up all the BB threads.

There's been plenty of posts on here about it.

I feel I should pop up on every thread and defend ISIS. They get a bad press from a hostile world. They are simply defending themselves. Which they have every right to do!

as Grum notes we [ the west but in reality it is a small number of americans] have more influence and control over Israel than we do over ISIS

If it helps other things other than Israel are deplorable and ISIS is one of them.

Kenny Senior's first post for 4 months.

Have Mossad compromised his account?

Those Christians are a terrorist force who use their own people as human shields. They are able to flee their homes because our humanitarian policies have given them a generous 24 hours warning before we get in there with the, er, 'defending ourselves'

Kenny Seniors probably been working as a spy for Mossad

[img] [/img]

If only there were a word... something with really,really unpleasant associations ... that we could level specifically at anyone who dared to criticise ISIS and their right to 'defend themselves', so their opinion could be quickly dismissed....

Hmmmmmmm....

Tories?

I always use the number of posts on the singletrackworld forum about a topic to gauge its importance in the world.

[quote=konabunny ]I always use the number of posts on the singletrackworld forum about a topic to gauge its importance in the world.

I do the same but also I assume that when I see a 5-page thread about, say, Israel, the minds of STW will, in that 5 pages, have formulated a solution to the problem which will be read by those in power and implemented thereby ensuring the problem goes away. I'd expect that's why I've not seen 800 threads about Israel in the last few weeks.

Are there any other examples of loony religious groups named after cycling component standards.

The thing is, there's just not much to say on the subject. Once the first post says "What a bunch of horrible ****s" and you have a few more posts giving examples of ways in which they're horrible ****s, and nobody stands up to defend them at all, there's really not much dialogue there...

The point of a discussion forum isn't to set the world to rights, it's to discuss things. An absence of discussion doesn't imply approval or turning a blind eye or a lack of interest in events, it can just show a lack of interest in discussion.

Until this happened:

gwaelod - Member

Are there any other examples of loony religious groups named after cycling component standards.

Jethreadlessheadset Witnesses

[i]loony religious groups named after cycling component standards.[/i]

How about body parts?

Christian Knees earlier

[img] [/img]

OP a few of us have tried to point out what is happening in Iraq and Syria but it seems not to resonate with those on STW as much as Gaza.

The facts are that 10's of thousands of people are dying in Syria and Iraq as a result of ISIS and the sectarian violence between Shia and Sunni muslims. Many more Palestinians have died in Syria than in Gaza for example.

The reality is that western journalists cannot cover what is happening in Syria and Iraq as it is far too dangerous. In Gaza they hare hosted by Hamas as the international propoganda war is a very large part of their campaign.

What ISIS are doing is on a huge scale which dwarfs Gaza by an order of magnitude. The number of western young people who have gone to fight with them is of major concern, they will return highly radicalised. ISIS has been declared too radical by Al-Qaeda, they are now the worlds best funded (having captured banks) and supplied (having captured military equipment) extermist terror organisation in the world.

@grum, specifically on your list

Are ISIS a major ally of the UK and US?

No, they will be our most significant enemy, far more dangerous than Al-Qaeda. If you are a liberal Muslim ISIS will be your enemy too.

Do ISIS receive billions in funding from the US?

Do ISIS buy large quantities of US and UK weapons?

No, ISIS have capture US military equipment from the Iraqi army. They will be buying huge amounts of arms, probably from North Korea or Iran like Hamas do.

Do ISIS claim to be a wester style liberal democracy that upholds human rights?

No, quite the contrary they wish to remove all trace of human rights as we in the west would understand them

With all of these things you would think the progressive Muslim world and those in the West would see ISIS as the single most important threat facing them today and that would be matched by news coverage and public opinion, but no.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

But what is @grum's point ?

Lots of people here are comfortable on which side they are on the Gaza issue but have very little to say on the much more significant and much more deadly campaigns being waged in Syria and Iraq.

I feel I should pop up on every thread and defend ISIS. They get a bad press from a hostile world. They are simply defending themselves.

I thought their music was bad enough....

In Gaza they hare hosted by Hamas as the international propoganda war is a very large part of their campaign.

it's all made up, isn't it.

What the Palestinians face daily (contains multiple dead bodies and a lot of blood):

What Israelis face daily:

[img] [/img]

Back to ISIS - I don't think there's anything but international condemnation for what they're doing, and as earlier posts have said, their murder of civilians isn't paid for directly by the US and UK government.

But what is @grum's point ?

How many times do we have to do this? Do you have to have weighed up every bad thing in the world and worked out which one is definitely the most bad, then carefully made sure you've allocated a proportional amount of time condemning that one, compared to all the other ones in the world - otherwise you're not allowed to comment?

Everyone agrees ISIS are murderous arseholes - not everyone agrees re Israel, hence why there's a lot more discussion about it.

@grum, specifically on your list

All you've done there is further illustrate my point as to why Israel is held to a higher standard than fanatical religious terrorist nut jobs. Bravo.

Lots of people here are comfortable on which side they are on the Gaza issue but have very little to say on the much more significant and much more deadly campaigns being waged in Syria and Iraq.

Whataboutery in it's purest form.

ISIS clearly just need is a better press office. Then, given the right spin, all the beheadings, forced female genital mutilation and butchery of infidals would be more palatable to us all?

What do you suggest the international community does about ISIS then? Given that our recent track record in Iraq is, shall we say... 'patchy', and that Syria is a war zone presently run by a psychotic lunatic

[img] http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQzzRQM_keM9RRF2ZlvJh6CJeTNOeMUkSBIb4ZH0oguF7gpJ_ikZA [/img]

LAAAAAAANAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

No @grum we don't have to weigh up every situation but my view is that the Gaza situation gets a disproportionately high amount of coverage with some very defined views and allegations of genocide whilst those same people have little or nothing to say about the far more serious and deadly events elsewhere.

No I do not believe you should hold one country to a higher standard than another in particular where you are advocating intervention, be that military or economic.

@hunrgry_monkey - your "every day" remark is quite interesting as Israel's have endured 450 rocket attacks from Jan 2014 to July (before the current conflict). I assume you are also aware of how many of the images and video footage has been shown to come from Syria. I am not making light of the loss of life in Gaza but be careful of not being drawn into the propoganda net

I'll repeat the question. As you're clear we should be doing something about this, what exactly do you suggest the international community does about ISIS then?

In the case of Israel, its fairly simple. Us, and the Americans could note that being on the same side as the sub-human butchers presently launching artillery bombardments on schools and hospitals might not be doing our international image any good, and maybe just stop giving them squadrons of F-16's, fleets of tanks and enough weaponry to wipe out a continent.

I suspect putting a stop to ISIS might prove slightly more challenging

[url= http://davidbyrne.com/gaza-and-the-loss-of-civilization ]Some may find this letter interesting[/url]

No I do not believe you should hold one country to a higher standard than another in particular where you are advocating intervention, be that military or economic.

So no more is expected of an elected government in a democracy (that says it wants to be part of the international community), than a disparate group of fanatical religious terrorists who've taken territory by gruesome bloodthirsty violence?

Shouldn't democratically elected governments be slightly more accountable than terrorist groups?

No @grum we don't have to weigh up every situation but my view is that the Gaza situation gets a disproportionately high amount of coverage with some very defined views and allegations of genocide whilst those same people have little or nothing to say about the far more serious and deadly events elsewhere.

That's just more whataboutery. Whether other things happening elsewhere are worse or not has no bearing on whether what is happening in Gaza is right or not.

Jambalaya - i really don't know what you are trying to acheive with your postings on these threads, repeatedly everyone has agreed with you that ISIS is a nasty piece of work that the world would be better off without, and as such with a general consensus there is no great discussion to have, and on several occaisons posters have said that if you want to have a discussion on Syria/Iraq then to start a thread on it and to stop trying to derail threads on the situation in Gaza, which tend to provoke more discussion as it would appear to not have a general consensus, and as far as i have seen you have not yet started that thread.

I'll be totally honest and say that i'm not 100% sure on your position on the Israel/Gaza conflict (i don't hang on your every post) but the way you post comes across as someone who supports Israel but is almost ashamed to publicly say so, so keep trying the "Look over there everyone" trick to try and draw attention away from that issue.

Imo the cause of the two conflicts, and the aims of the parties involved are very different and as such can not be compared, i think most posters would probably agree with that as well, they would probably also post up to condemn the actions of ISIS in any thread you wish to start about ISIS' actions, so long as you don't try to draw parralels with the Gaza conflict.

supporting isis is illegal in this country.

sending money to isis is illegal in this country.

The uk government are actively imposing sanctions against isis.

The uk are giving financial and military support to those who fight isis.

The uk government actively considered direct air strikes.

So far in relation to Gaza the UK government have said to Israel "we support your right to do it but could you please think about being a little more humane when you do it , but no worries if you carry on just an idea you know"
That may be why Gaza generates more debate that Isis.

@bazz - we don't need more threads on the Middle East, if anything we need less, ie none. It is after all a cycling forum. You are quite right not to hang on every post from me or indeed anyone else.

I repeatedly make the comparison to show the hypocrisy of those that post from a pro-Palestine/anti-Israel perspective when they are not advocating any action re ISIS when they have numerous suggestions on how others should intervene in Gaza in a way which would materially weaken Israel and almost certainly result in it's destruction. @grum himself said, he holds Israel to a higher standard, I think he holds them to a different standard and that's my point.

My stance is simple, Israel has the right to defend itself against a terrorist lead government intent on it's destruction which has armed itself with attack tunnels and long range rockets. Sometimes that defense is going to take the form of offensive action. Hamas has been trying to prevoke a responce from Israel as it believes this will win it sympathy and support and help it achieve it's objective for the destruction of Israel. Hamas has very little support from the Arab community and is recognised as a terrorist organisation in the West. Palestinians found themselves fighting the government of Syria.

crankboy - Member
supporting isis is illegal in this country.

sending money to isis is illegal in this country.

The uk government are actively imposing sanctions against isis...

Oh dear. I suspect I may be in danger of a visit from MI6.

I've been googling like mad looking for more ISIS BBs for my fatbike.

Square taper from now on for me... 🙂

My stance is simple, Israel has the right to defend itself against a terrorist lead government intent on it's destruction which has armed itself with attack tunnels and long range rockets. Sometimes that defense is going to take the form of [s]offensive action[/s] ...massacring children seeking shelter from a huge military onslaught in UN protected schools and hospitals

FTFY. But do feel free to carry on with your frankly ridiculous whataboutery, and offensive zionist apologism

Oh... and for your own protection, as you're clearly such a sensitive little flower when it comes to Israel, then I'd recommend you steer well clear of all forms of social media. The subject has popped up once are twice, and it'd be fair to say that overwhelmingly Israel hasn't come out of it looking good. People get a bit squeamish when faced with pictures of a military machine indiscriminately butchering kids. Who'd have thunk it eh?

But your opinions are shared by the IDF, who post prolifically, and....erm..... no.... thats about it

Why is a bottom bracket so mad? Is it because Hollowtech II took over the world and marginalised it?

I read this article this morning;

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/24/israel ]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/24/israel[/url]

[i]An Israeli army officer who repeatedly shot a 13-year-old Palestinian girl in Gaza dismissed a warning from another soldier that she was a child by saying he would have killed her even if she was three years old.

The officer, identified by the army only as Captain R, was charged this week with illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and other relatively minor infractions after emptying all 10 bullets from his gun's magazine into Iman al-Hams when she walked into a "security area" on the edge of Rafah refugee camp last month. [/i]

his actions and the response by the IDF both previously and when charging him illustrate exactly why the world is turning against Israel. There seems to be a determined effort by the IDF to behave in ways that they've spent 70 years condemning when it was directed at Jews.

They've created a ghetto within seized territory, stopped all supplies getting in and then got upset and appear to be trying to kill residents with no discrimination at all when they react with violence and anger.

I've always felt ambivalent to Israel's position. Now I'm just angry and will do everything I can to boycott Israeli goods, services and finances.

I repeatedly make the comparison to show the hypocrisy of those that post from a pro-Palestine/anti-Israel perspective

Nope - it's just irrelevant whataboutery.

@grum himself said, he holds Israel to a higher standard, I think he holds them to a different standard and that's my point.

Do ISIS spokesmen get a slot on the news to explain why it's justified for them to butcher people?

How about you answer the question - don't you think democratically elected governments should be more accountable than terrorist groups?

Oh, and how come Israel are allowed to take offensive action to 'protect themselves' but not Hamas? FTFY.

My stance is simple, Hamas has the right to defend itself against a terrorist lead government intent on it's destruction which has armed itself with flechette bombs and white phosphorous. Sometimes that defense is going to take the form of offensive action.

It makes me sad and its very depressing. How a nation reacts with bared-teeth and almost is implementing a 'once and for all' solution to a problem.

I've said this last week, whats the end-game? Decimation, security forces permanently on the ground then Orthodox settlers moving in/building on destroyed Palestinian land.

@hunrgry_monkey - your "every day" remark is quite interesting as Israel's have endured 450 rocket attacks from Jan 2014 to July (before the current conflict). I assume you are also aware of how many of the images and video footage has been shown to come from Syria. I am not making light of the loss of life in Gaza but be careful of not being drawn into the propoganda net

Please remember that, as has previously been said in many, many places that before Israels latest strikes, Hamas was actively trying to prevent other islamist groups from firing rockets into Israel.

I'm perfectly aware that there are images which have come from Syria, but if you actually watch the whole video I posted (which I guess for an Israeli apologist is probably a little discomforting) you'll see the dead body of Rami Rayan, a photojournalist, who was killed by the strikes fired by an illegally occupying force.

The every day comment is entirely justified. Yes, rockets have been fired, every day, into israel. and bar relatively few, they've all been stopped by Iron Dome.
Every day since the conflict started Israel has shelled, bombed and shot at Palestinians.
So how am I being drawn into the propaganda net by saying that? it's a fact.

have you watched the video btw? it's pretty unpleasant, but I'd like to know what you think about it?