Seems like the world of Mountain Bikes is finally beyond me.

just ride your bike and have fun is what i say,that is the most important thing (i agree with what you say about the billion different standards nowadays i will add).

UDH is just srams new rear derailier standard, it integrates with their t type mech which are meant to be much tougher

And a bottom dropout is just natural.

Great.

ANOTHER FHECKEN DIFFERENT STANDARD.

Some people at SRAM need burning at the stake.

just ride your bike and have fun is what i say

Word. 🙂

UDH is universal derailleur hanger. Something we've wanted for decades is for different frames from different brands to use the same mech hanger. It caught in and lots of bikes use it now. There's a greater chance of being able to walk into a shop and walk out £15 later with a mech hanger that works.

If you remove the mech hanger altogether, it just so happens that the remaining frame shape is perfect for mounting SRAM T-Type mechs. They effectively create a clevis around the dropout area of the frame and hold in place with the rear axle.

Or, leave the UDH in place and run any other meh from any manufacturer including SRAM.

It actually seems like a pretty good idea.

I'm with you! Last legitimate MTB ride I went on people were looking at me like I was a different species, no dropper, no motor, front wheel in same postcode as rest of bike lol.

However if the Cotic thread upsets you DO NOT venture into the Italian coffee bean thread, I'm genuinely now questioning whether I actually enjoy my morning cup of aeropress supermarket grind...

Transmission (t-type) is a way of dangling a very expensive bit of consumer electronics off your rear axle… it also has proprietary lock-in as only one brand can sell you the component that interfaces with your bike in this way… despite you owning the bike…  helping keep the prices high and bringing you back to the brand when you need a new one… think of the daft brand specific charging cables that the EU is helping us escape from… it’s a bit like that. All you really need to know, is that you can still use a normal cable pull rear mech from any brand, that mount in the normal way, using a hanger (UDH) you can buy anywhere, so there is a win for more affordable no-nonsense biking.

If your having fun then just go out and enjoy the trails .

For as long as I can remember the hype and trends are there mainly for one thing and that's to get us to dig deep in our pockets just to be on trend.

Some will benefit from the constant changes. Most won't notice the difference and for others it will be a placebo effect.

So there are a big group on this thread that think we should be riding 26 inch wheel rigid bikes with rim brakes and quill stems in one inch head tubes

As the owner and occasional rider of Cotic frame #165, I've let all this new stuff pass me by.

I don't know or care about every latest development and I never ride anything until it's in the 40% discount zone.

I still know that UDH is a great idea that was well overdue. I've got 2 bikes with it and I don't have to stock up on hangers for each bike.

ANOTHER FHECKEN DIFFERENT STANDARD

Some people at SRAM need burning at the stake.

Would that be a metric or imperial sized stake sir?

So there are a big group on this thread that think we should be riding 26 inch wheel rigid bikes with rim brakes and quill stems in one inch head tubes

Oh no, I'm not that much of a Luddite. I've got a dropper on my gravel bike! I'd just rather spend my bike time riding it rather than pondering if the value of marginal gains for me, and probably not so marginal gains for component manufacturers.

Given the last few years of wheel size and hub spacing standards changing UDH is comparatively simple, it's just a universal hanger standard. Long overdue IMO - I've got a spares box full of assorted hangers for frames I've had over the years.

<b><i>.</i></b>

The 'Bike Industry' seemed to work out about a decade and a half ago that it could come up with any number of needless enhancements to force the rider into buying a whole complete new bike, at an ever increasing inflated price. This is not an aspect that all of us enjoy. I had just as much fun years ago riding cobbled together custom built bikes from whatever best frame you could find and a selection of your favourite parts, it was never hard to build something that worked just fine. Nowadays were supposed to buy into some consumerist market driven fantasy, which the buyer knows will probably be made obsolete in a few seasons time anyway.

UDH has been here for ages. My frame came with it unknowingly in 2022. For those moaning about it, it comes with a standard hanger mount which fits your old-fashioned derailleurs. If you want to use T-type (makes a lot of sense, the electronics, less so) then you remove the hanger and fit the derailleur.

@tthew The competition to sell us more and more stuff is not always to improve our experience but to grow market share for the dominant companies. Like you, I despair at the different “standards” and latest inventions - the FGF clutch chainring thing last week was the latest example.  I’ve opted out of the arms race, I had the chance earlier this year to perhaps spend quite a bit of money on a new bike, I couldn’t bring myself to do it! The tuning (tokens, shok wiz etc) the maintenance, all the bearings and my preferred riding which is natural bridleways and countryside appreciation made me think long and hard. I’ve bought a rigid fatbike with only a dropper post as change of spec. I love the simplicity and reliability and I can now scan technical articles that talk about “cockpits”, “mid-stroke” and “poppy” without having to concentrate. It makes my MTB experience a lot more simple, tthew, don’t leave the scene just ignore most of it, treat it as tinnitus!

To be honest with you I'm still not 100% sure what Boost is all about, I thought it was just wider rear axle spacing but then I see stuff about Boost cranks which totally throws me.

My crux has UDH bought a spare hanger when I picked the bike up reasonably priced and not silly money like some brands charge. It doesn’t mean you have to run SRAM mechs, my Crux is currently running 12 speed Shimano GRX

I see stuff about Boost cranks which totally throws me

Wider rear axle/hub means that the chainline is moved outwards. To match this chainsets moved the chainline outwards as well… which made it easier to build more tyre clearance into frames.

The new chainlines are the one bit of the changing to boost drama that I appreciate as useful. Old hubs gathering dust less so.

I thought boost was something to do with the front axle!

Am with the op, even though I quite like researching new gadgets and kit. But find the different “standards” baffling and boring so I’ve checked out of buying any bike stuff other than the consumables.

whoa

I googled the UDH which seemes like a great idea and the second hit I got was this on Aliexpress!!!

Is it wrong to want one?

For those of you that mentioned it, no I'm not stopping cycling, just means that I'll be spending less on kit in future as I won't be hankering after new stuff that is incompatible with my bikes.  

Right, I'm off to fit the new single speed drive train that arrived this morning, at less cost than that that Ali Express Ingrid derailleur. 🙂 

I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!

- Abe Simpson

Well, of all the things to be annoyed about... UDH is an answer to the thing you dislike :0)

Agree with OP. What I like about bikes is their simplicity and efficiency. Something you can fix and fiddle with yourself.
It's a cheap and affordable way to enjoy the countryside. Good for your physical and mental health.
That's it.

This may be a stupid question but are UDH hangers universal?
If i buy any manufacturers UDH will it fit.

I don't change my bikes much,so most of mine are now racing towards obsolete.

I love them to bits and after years of tweaks and upgrades they are (for me) a perfect fit.

It's also ( I think) quite cool how unique they are and nobody else has bikes like them  🙂

I consider myself a sceptic rather than a luddite, having stepped off the upgrade treadmill many years ago. Although aware of UDHs I'd paid them no attention because they simply don't apply to my old bikes (and won't until the latter break).

So it was with a weary heart I decided to have a look on the back of this thread. Actually, sounds like a good idea - and seems like it'll standardise through axle threads and dimensions.

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/workshop/sram-udh

New ideas, new concepts, new marketing... I love it!

Yes, some of it will fall by the wayside but ongoing tinkering adds up over time to give us real progress. The bikes we ride now are so much better than those of just ten or fifteen years ago. I don't know many who will think, "Ah a new standard... I must rush out and buy it". Change happens when we decide to buy a new bike. I've been a bit spendy this year (can't take it with you) and a couple of the new bikes I've bought came with the new "Transmission"  mech, cassette and chain. I was already on electronic shifting (ace) but the Transmission stuff has made things even better: virtually no chain noise over the roughest ground and extremely precise shifts... every time. No mech hanger to ever damage, and spares are available to repair a damaged mech. And this step to a "Transmission" set-up has been allowed by the UDH standard. And the UDH standard has to be better even if you choose to run cable operated stuff.

That said, I think I might go out on the steel hardtail later. Cable operated gears and all 🙂

Great.

ANOTHER FHECKEN DIFFERENT STANDARD.

Some people at SRAM need burning

at the stake.

That's been out at least six months so is hardly new, hopefully you've been out riding all that time so missed it because of that, which is what it's all about, riding first, new kit later

This may be a stupid question but are UDH hangers universal?

If i buy any manufacturers UDH will it fit.

Wow

My pal asked my opinion on what sus fork to buy to replace his knackered one (bike is a few years old), I responded with the following queries about his bike:

• What size of steerer tube?
• What type of brake mount?
• What type and length of front wheel axle?
• What fork offset?
• What travel?
• What size of stanchions would he like?
• What size wheel?
• Air or coil?
• Does he want a remote lockout?
• Budget?
• Colour?

He wasn't aware there was so many options.

OP, I feel this way whenever anyone talks about suspension tech. Compression rate this, mid stroke that.. I get that it's important like bike fit and geometry are important but I can't help it, my eyes glaze over and I realise why all my bikes are rigid. Just CBA with the faff of that stuff any more.

PS UDH, a standard .. haha, we wish. Wait a year or 2.

My pal asked my opinion on what sus fork to buy to replace his knackered one (bike is a few years old), I responded with the following queries about his bike:

What size of steerer tube?
What type of brake mount?
What type and length of front wheel axle?
What fork offset?
What travel?
What size of stanchions would he like?
What size wheel?
Air or coil?
Does he want a remote lockout?
Budget?
Colour?
He wasn’t aware there was so many options.

to be fair only the ones in bold would be things he needs to tell you. Everything else he wants your opinion on what is best.

I genuinely have not the first **** clue what this means.

It's only important if you're more interested in shopping than riding. Otherwise it only becomes an issue when the bike you ride ceases to serve a purpose for you.

I don't need to know what the latest stanards/gismos/angles are becuase I've got a bike so I'm not shopping for a bike.

Should it vanish, explode or disintegrate I'll shop for another, but in all likelihood a whole bunch of other TLAs will have been and gone by then so no need to know anything about this weeks ones

I feel its mostly marketing boolocks that people like to buy into.

"We've increased/decreased the stays by 3.2mm so you can now ride like a pro" Ahh pish.

TBH a bikes just like any other consumer item, you could still be happy watching an old tube tv with vhs cassettes.

I ride mine till they aren’t financially viable, ie paying a premium for old inefficient parts, then buy one with the popular standards and look to get x amount of years out of it.

Bike worlds always been a changing in the standards, I don’t see this as anything different otherwise we’d all be riding penny farthings or worse velocipedes.

I had a Thursday and Friday at Dyfi Bike Park and i must admit the older i am getting the more the bike scene irritates me.

Whilst queuing the bravado, plain bullshitting and excuses for casing a jump is off the charts with the riders. It seems no longer adequate that a £4K bike is enough, one needs to have a van conversion and even a compressor to blow ones tyres up to now enjoy riding a bike.

The constant being sold to to by companies for advancements that don't seem to offer much benefit other than to take money from me is getting silly... that said i do own three bikes, so probably should start to take my own advice! 😉

the older i am getting the more the bike scene irritates me.

Same. I think it’s the money that has came into it. There is nothing grassroots now and people seem to feel they need a £7k bike, VW transporter, a £300 waterproof onesie, a dryrobe, a Muc Off pressure washer and a dog with them in order to ride now. A lot don’t seem to smile either?

Same. I think it’s the money that has came into it. There is nothing grassroots now and people seem to feel they need a £7k bike, VW transporter, a £300 waterproof onesie, a dryrobe, a Muc Off pressure washer and a dog with them in order to ride now. A lot don’t seem to smile either?

whereabouts is this? I'll make a note to avoid it!

There is nothing grassroots now and people seem to feel they need a £7k bike, VW transporter, a £300 waterproof onesie, a dryrobe, a Muc Off pressure washer and a dog with them in order to ride now. A lot don’t seem to smile either?

There's plenty of grassroots MTB going on. I know dozens of people that ride, a very small handful will have a £7k bike, maybe a couple have a VW (so what if they like that lifestyle image?). I have none of the other things you list but do have a drysuit, but I do smile a lot. All the rides I go on, there is a broad spectrum of how invested the riders are in the scene.

Don't judge the whole MTB scene on what you see at a trail centre (that will always attract some prize tools) and likewise don't judge those that choose to embrace the whole 'lifestyle', whether you find it cringe or not, it smacks a little of jealousy.

I’ve been toying with the idea of getting one of my bikes out, bleeding the brakes, and probably spending a small fortune on new tyres, (it seems that tubeless tyres have gone up a bit since I last spent around 30 quid on a tyre), I plan on getting an adapter kit to turn my S/S into a belt drive, for reasons of simplicity, quiet and almost zero maintenance.

I will never subscribe to the idea of riding a mullet bike, I can’t imagine why anyone thinks that having to cough up for different size rims and tyres is a great plan, in all honesty.

I will never subscribe to the idea of riding a mullet bike, I can’t imagine why anyone thinks that having to cough up for different size rims and tyres is a great plan, in all honesty.

Are matching rims and tyres cheaper?

I will never subscribe to the idea of riding a mullet bike, I can’t imagine why anyone thinks that having to cough up for different size rims and tyres is a great plan, in all honesty.

They offend me aesthetically! Lol

I can't help it, it's not based upon logic, they just do. 🙂

Are matching rims and tyres cheaper?

Compatibility between all my bikes, well road and MTB, is great, and can be cheaper, although i do it for ease of part swapping in emergencies. Compatibility within the same bike should be taken for granted!

When have you ever swapped something from front to rear (or vice versa) on the same bike and not needed to buy a replacement immediately?

if you’re gonna be borrowing stuff from other bikes, you’re going to need to replace that soon enough too, so what odds does it make what size it is, why not use the other full bike if it’s an emergency?

I run a mullet, Specialized Status 160, however i'm not convinced it's any better/worse as full 29. But as said above, a tyre is a tyre, if it needs a new one, they're £50-60, be that a 29 or a 27.5, it's still got a cost.  I think you've got to be a lot better than i am for the wheels to make a difference.

This may be a stupid question but are UDH hangers universal?

If i buy any manufacturers UDH will it fit

Nearly. Udh is supposed to be a single universal hanger but in standard fashion no sooner was it designed Trek changed it. so there's a trek version, and an everyone else version. Assuming it's not labelled / sold as the trek specific version it's fair to assume you're getting the right one. Unless you have a trek of course.

but do have a drysuit

I had to look that one up…  I have a dry suit too but it has seals on the cuffs and collar.  I had no idea there was a dry suit for bike riding.  Do they work or are they hot and uncomfy?  I struggle with waterproof shorts let alone a complete suit.

it seems that tubeless tyres have gone up a bit since I last spent around 30 quid on a tyre

Spesh and Bontrager are both easily available in the £30-£40 range.

So much to digest in this thread. Here’s my take. Stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and just ride you b****y bike. If you’re getting wound up about what other people are doing, that says more about you than them.

so there’s a trek version, and an everyone else version

Not Trek’s fault though, is it. They have bearings in the ABP to protect.

Letting SRAM put design requirements on frame designers, only to then stop other component brands using that fitting for their own rear mechs, was an industry level cock up. A genuinely open universal interface is needed, but that would take the big bike brands to work together and take the lead.

Oh, and all that’s to be ignored. Ride your bike. In any way you want. Many of us grew up “mountain biking” riding the kind of stuff people now call “gravel” on very simple bikes. Get out there. Enjoy riding. No need to make it hard for yourself unless you fancy it. No need to have new anything.

I think it's just another life lesson in getting old, things move on & always have done. Embrace the new stuff that offers something to you, learn to swallow new stuff you don't really want but is forced upon you & keep a shelf full of VHS if that floats your boat (next to your WiFi router for Netflix).

Do they work or are they hot and uncomfy?

Works amazingly well on the ebike where I can regulate my body temperature more easily. Not sure I'd want to wear it on the normal bike unless it was very cold and wet. But when it is very wet, I generally take the ebike anyway. I've now got some waterproof dungarees too, which I'll try on the normal bike

Letting SRAM put design requirements on frame designers, only to then stop other component brands using that fitting for their own rear mechs, was an industry level cock up.

Hear hear. Tail wagging the dog.

But more this -

Oh, and all that’s to be ignored. Ride your bike. In any way you want.

it seems that tubeless tyres have gone up a bit since I last spent around 30 quid on a tyre

last tyres I bought (earlier this year) were £17. Soft compound, super gravity schwalbe.

650b though, so having an unfashionable wheelsize does have its benefits.

leave the UDH in place and run any other meh

My thoughts entirely.

Kit talk frankly has always been beyond me. I engage when I must, no more than essential, and then pay the shop. The end. All that's changed for me is bikes have got better and riding has got more fun.

UDH good, especially when manufactures offer UDH retrofit bits  to replace their proprietary systems. Here from Raaw their UDH retrofit option.

Looks like Specialized are going to offer retrofit on Enduro same as the new 2025 one. Unless I want to go T type then I cant see the point as all the bikes in our family, 10+, have the same hanger.

All ours were standardised and then the latest Turbo Levo was mullet, just means that when we are away taking an extra spare rear wheel and tyre

Does the OP also 'struggle' with other areas of 'modern' life?

The only certainty of life is change.

No, there is another certainty.

Letting SRAM put design requirements on frame designers, only to then stop other component brands using that fitting for their own rear mechs, was an industry level cock up.

Nah, mechs and mech hangers have been around for decades. More than enough time to sort the problem out if it was going to happen. The fact that SRAM had an alternate motive to doing it was just a secondary benefit available to them only; doesn't diminish the primary value. Everyone else can carry on doing what they're doing with the new UDH. Its not like Shimano hadn't tried direct attaching mechs and failed already.

a secondary benefit available to them only

Well, there's the rub... only to them... SRAM could have made it an open standards interface... and the big bike brands should have insisted that it did so before allowing them to set the rules of use. Crazy for all the bike brands to accommodate SRAMs needs so that they can sell their new mechs and cassettes... and not have worked together to avoid being locked into SRAM only supply. They've been naive in a way that will play out in the next few years.

No, there is another certainty.

Technically that one is a change too.

UDH is brilliant.

Yes, it may be a SRAM design but it's a good design. Last time I did cut gate I was going at a reasonable pace when I clipped a rock which directly impacted my mech. It wasn't a small rock so to even get kicked up took some energy. The UDH rotated around the axle which allowed the whole mech to move much further rearwards rather than hit a certain point and break.

I can also get spares anywhere from a host of different manufacturers and (Trek not withstanding) they will fit.

I keep up with all the tech pretty much as it is released but that is because I am a nerd. When I'm riding my bike none of that matters one bit and I just enjoy the ride (whatever it may be)

When have you ever swapped something from front to rear (or vice versa) on the same bike and not needed to buy a replacement immediately?

I'm a 24hr racer. Being able to build a working bike from two broken ones in the pits at 3am is very, very useful! All of my MTB parts are interchangeable, if you accept using a couple of seatpost shims and a boost adapter. Well, apart from the Fattie which is a bit different. But if there are a bunch of us all with different 'standards' it can be a right pain in the backside

I may be a bit of a niche case though.

Well, it seems like the world of seems like the world of X is finally beyond me threads is finally beyond me.

Unless you have a trek of course.

I am glad i asked as i do have a trek

Crazy for all the bike brands to accommodate SRAMs needs so that they can sell their new mechs and cassettes… and not have worked together to avoid being locked into SRAM only supply. They’ve been naive in a way that will play out in the next few years.

UDH works with any bolt on mech, past or present. You could fit a 5 speed mech from a BSO to it, if you wanted to. If you run any bolt on mech, you need a hanger, so it might as well be a UDH one. Seriously can’t see what everyone’s issue with these is?

Seriously can’t see what everyone’s issue with these is?

That particular problem is that SRAM have managed to get frame designers to adopt the UDH, but don’t allow component manufacturers to use the direct derailleur mounting aspect of the design and this will give SRAM a competitive advantage over other component manufacturers.

i suppose the question is, we’re SRAM completely transparent when they took the idea of the UDH to bike designers?

the other question is, what will happen to shimano or any potential future competitors in the long term if they are locked out of using the this new direct mount standard?

Yes, it may be a SRAM design but it’s a good design. Last time I did cut gate I was going at a reasonable pace when I clipped a rock which directly impacted my mech. It wasn’t a small rock so to even get kicked up took some energy. The UDH rotated around the axle which allowed the whole mech to move much further rearwards rather than hit a certain point and break.

I'm not convinced by it.

First impact on my UDH bike bent the hanger, but only ever so slightly, so it was really annoying.

Got a new one.

Second impact snapped the goat link on the mech.

I was running an XT 11-speed mech. No idea if it would be any different with SRAM.

the other question is, what will happen to shimano or any potential future competitors in the long term if they are locked out of using the this new direct mount standard?

I guess they'll just carry on using their current method of mounting their rear mech as it already works for them and is compatible with UDH?

i suppose the question is, we’re SRAM completely transparent when they took the idea of the UDH to bike designers?

the other question is, what will happen to shimano or any potential future competitors in the long term if they are locked out of using the this new direct mount standard?

Yes they were transparent, and Shimano already has a direct mount mech compatible with UDH (in the old style DM which lets be honest wasn't great) and a patent (appliclation at least) on a mounted both sides mech. UDH is ultimately a hole and a set of dimensions - Ive not looked into the shimano patents but clearly they think they can get around any SRAM has.

clearly they think they can get around any SRAM has

If they do, it'll probably mean bike manufacturers changing their designs again... more compatibility confusion to come... big bike brands should have insisted on a open system rather than allowing SRAM to lock them in.

But none of this really matters... hang a Deore mech on your bike, and ride towards the sun...

I am glad i asked as i do have a trek

Help and counseling groups are available

My pal asked my opinion on what sus fork to buy to replace his knackered one (bike is a few years old), I responded with the following queries about his bike:

What size of steerer tube?
What type of brake mount?
What type and length of front wheel axle?
What fork offset?
What travel?
What size of stanchions would he like?
What size wheel?
Air or coil?
Does he want a remote lockout?
Budget?
Colour?
He wasn’t aware there was so many options.

It's your turn to cook dinner this evening, shall we have pasta? Hold up, how many different versions are there - shape, content, price, GF or not. There's a whole aisle of pasta! Never mind, we'll have potatoes because there's only one type of potat.....oh! While we're at the shops I'll buy some new jeans. I need 32-34", regular length, with a fit that's not skinny but not boot-cut, not too dark, not too light (not black, gray, or any weird bright colour), no holes in them, zip fly. Why can't I buy the jeans I want?

Why would anyone think that buying a fork for an expensive bike should be simple when nothing else is?