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This is unbelievable, behaviour like this with an ambulance on a shout. 🤬
I’d be interested to hear the thought process the **** went through that lead him to doing that.
Absolutely. Everyone knows that the best way to make progress is to follow one.
Well I'm shocked as he looks like an upstanding citizen just back from jury service.
Sorry for the daily mail link.
Absolute cockwomble.
High time it was made a legal requirement to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle, rather than being'optional' as at present.
(In California, and I think also in Canada, not getting out of the way when results in prosecution, or worse! Don't pull over for a fire truck and the next thing is an almighty bang as you get shunted off the road, very satisfying to witness an eejit on the receiving end of this!)
P.S. Can we amend the thread title to correct english, please? 'arsehole'
Typical Man Yoo fan
P.S. Can we amend the thread title to correct english, please? ‘arsehole’
This
People who repeatedly exhibit this kind of behaviour should be used for bio-fuel
With the cost of living crisis and the healthy supply of utter arseholes in the UK, we could power a few hospitals
What a complete tosser.
I was slowing down for an ambulance and tucking into the kerb at about 20 mph. The stupid driver behind, pulls out right in front of the blue lighted emergency vehicle and overtakes me.
Too many people nowadays are taught to pass their test, not, learning to drive.
Too many people nowadays are taught to pass their test
Except that would result in you failing your test. Also the only time you are allowed to run a red light (with caution) if it would otherwise impede the emergency services.
At least these days we're actually taught what the speed limits are.
Also the only time you are allowed to run a red light (with caution) if it would otherwise impede the emergency services.
Is that actually true? I thought you would have a defense against running it but there is no exemption even if a blues and twos behind you
Also the only time you are allowed to run a red light (with caution) if it would otherwise impede the emergency services.
I'm fairly certain that's not true.
Debateably it should be, but it's not.
I stopped to let a funeral procession out of a side road today. Some WGBE overtook me and cut the procession in half. Some people are just massive dickheads. I caught up to him at the next set of lights after letting the procession continue.
I’m fairly certain that’s not true.
...and you would be right...
Car insurance expert at Confused.com, Alex Kindred, said: “Although it comes with good intensions, driving, breaking, or manoeuvring dangerously to let an ambulance pass can be a great safety risk. Hearing a siren or seeing flashing lights can cause you to react quickly, but try not to panic.
“It's important to move aside for an emergency vehicle but try to be mindful of traffic signs and comply with the Highway Code when doing so. This includes driving through a red light or stopping in a bus lane.
Also the only time you are allowed to run a red light (with caution) if it would otherwise impede the emergency services.
I’m pretty sure you’re wrong there.
Blue light vehicles have an exemption to go through a red light but other vehicles don’t.
As TJ says, if you get a ticket for doing it you have a defence but it’s not certain you’ll get let off.
I'm just amazed they actually convicted him of dangerous driving and fined him £600 when killing 2 cyclists is only classed as careless and costs £475.
The best thing you can do is first off be awake and aware of what's coming up behind you and plan to get out the way in a controlled way. What emergency drivers don't want is some idiot panicing trying to get out the way and doing something unpredictable, slamming on or riding up the kerb to get out the way. They are the trained expert drivers we are not. Making it compulsory to get out the way would cause more problems than it solves. This case is totally different, should be at least driving withoit due care and attention although the brake checking should be dangerous driving.
I’m fairly certain that’s not true.
Debateably it should be, but it’s not.
It's not true, and it absolutely should be IMHO. Life-threatening emergencies should trump sitting there with your thumb up your arse because of a coloured light rather than pulling forward three metres. In this connected day and age why can't traffic lights respond to oncoming emergency vehicles and change ahead of them getting there?
Ah he did plead guilty to dangerous driving.
From the pictures, reported and filmed behaviour of mr Butler he doesn’t come across as an individual playing with the full deck. Maybe there should be some i.q. / personality test before someone is allowed on the road in charge of a lethal weapon (not inferring that I’d actually pass but I’d be confident this lad wouldn’t)
I’m just amazed they actually convicted him of dangerous driving and fined him £600 when killing 2 cyclists is only classed as careless and costs £475.
I'm left wondering the same. I assume he's got previous or something to land him such a heavy fine relative to other cases of vulnerable road users being wiped out yet driver gets much lighter penalty because "mistake".
High time it was made a legal requirement to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle, rather than being’optional’ as at present.
As soon as I'm given immunity to prosecution for any traffic offences I may have to commit in getting out of their way I'll do so but until then I'll let the emergency vehicle commit the offences but will not get in their way whilst they do so.
I was told that by my driving instructor so that's my mitigation. In fairness it seems to be if you can do so without entering the main part of a junction or can do so safely then it can be used in mitigation:
I wouldn't actually advocate flooring it through a busy junction, I'm talking more about cases where you're on a timed light with an empty road in front of you.
It’s not true
Absolutely. You do not have a defence to conviction, end of...
and it absolutely should be IMHO. Life-threatening emergencies should trump sitting there with your thumb up your arse because of a coloured light rather than pulling forward three metres
The reality is that 3m won't be enough to clear a queue of traffic from a junction. The problem is when something "happens" and the jury decides that isn't what a careful and competent driver would have done
In this connected day and age why can’t traffic lights respond to oncoming emergency vehicles and change ahead of them getting there?
They can't even fit the correct control boxes to toucan crossings and use tech to detect cyclists waiting at little-used traffic lights
Absolutely. You do not have a defence to conviction, end of…
Seems at odds with
The Police National Legal Database’s website, Ask the Police,states: ‘If you cross the stop line at the junction whilst the lights are on red, you will commit the offence of contravening a red traffic light.’
They elaborate: ‘If there is an emergency vehicle behind you with its emergency warning signals on it might be possible for you to manoeuvre out of the way to allow it through. Ideally this should be to the side of the road without encroaching into the main area of the junction. It should only be done when it is safe to do so without putting yourself or other members of the public in danger and it should only be done slowly and carefully.’
If there is no other way to allow the vehicle to pass, then they emphasize that ‘the onus will be on you to provide evidence that you did so to allow an emergency vehicle through, and that this may be considered as mitigation.’
You need to check out the difference between a defence and a mitigation. The former might save you from conviction, the other can only reduce the penalty following conviction.
In this connected day and age why can’t traffic lights respond to oncoming emergency vehicles and change ahead of them getting there?
They can it's called hurry signal, but it depends what traffic ligh controller is is installed it depends on what traffic light management system has been bought and what licensing has been bought. Finally it also depends on how the system has been setup. The hurry call may be setup along specific main routes or loads of other setups
My niece's husband got done for going through a red light to let a blue light police car through. It was caught on camera. The photos provided for the prosecution clearly showed the front of the police car right behind him.
The magistrates were highly sympathetic but claimed that their hands were tied by the law. However they either fined him and let him off the penalty points or gave him the penalty points and let him off the fine, I can't remember which way round it was.
He told the magistrates court that he had learnt his lesson and would never again in similar circumstances let an emergency vehicle through.
Quite what the law feels it is achieving by not giving magistrates full discretionary powers in such circumstances I have no idea.
High time it was made a legal requirement to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle, rather than being’optional’ as at present.
He was caught & convicted - why do we need (yet) another law?
And when was the last time any of us saw a driver on purpose block an emergency vehicle? Yes, plenty do it because they've not seen/heard an emergency vehicle, but purposely blocking?
Manchester Utd supporting Essex boy is an arsehole. Who'd of thought it?
Apparently chicken nuggets have a similar enraging effect on motorists
(NSFW)
https://twitter.com/Xx17965797N/status/1589670759399845889?s=20&t=EPYiP7-2Ws8NJuX0uJurSg
You need to check out the difference between a defence and a mitigation. The former might save you from conviction, the other can only reduce the penalty following conviction.
Ah, I see, thanks for the clarification.
He was caught & convicted – why do we need (yet) another law?
This!
And when was the last time any of us saw a driver on purpose block an emergency vehicle? Yes, plenty do it because they’ve not seen/heard an emergency vehicle, but purposely blocking?
Quite - most drivers seem to dive for the side of the road / full on emergency stop when blue lights appear.
Even when the emergency is in the opposite direction 🙄
And I'd agree it's mostly because they're distracted so only notice them last minute.
"In this connected day and age why can’t traffic lights respond to oncoming emergency vehicles and change ahead of them getting there?"
They can and (if fitted) they do, up to a point. This works for busses, too. To my knowledge since the 90's when I was an engineer in that industry. I say up to a point because what they do is change the weighting of the phases when they detect the Priority Transmitter on the vehicle. What they don't and probably will never do is guarantee a green if that meant blocking the junction with (possibly) crashed vehicles and injured road users when everything else suddenly went red and some noticed and some didn't.
Manchester Utd supporting Essex boy
Oi! As a former Essex boy myself, I should point out he's a 'Berkshire Hunt' actually.
He doesn't really look the full ticket, TBH.
I scrolled down to peek at the comments in that DM article (I know...) and spotted this:
Note the ratings. Would love to see what happens if this exact same comment was posted on a cyclist article!
The magistrates were highly sympathetic but claimed that their hands were tied by the law. However they either fined him and let him off the penalty points or gave him the penalty points and let him off the fine, I can’t remember which way round it was.
My understanding - as told to me by a JP years ago so may be incorrect - is that any conviction carries a minimum sentence (and a maximum one). The minimum sentence is the starting point, it's the punishment you will receive in a standard case. The magistrate can increase the penalty but they have to justify why. But they cannot exceed the maximum and they cannot go below the minimum either.
So, in the case of the OP's idiot, they may have increased the sentencing due to him obstructing an emergency vehicle rather than a regular motorist. In the case of the niece's husband it shouldn't be possible to be simply 'let off' one of the penalties because that would below the minimum.
As I said, this is as I understand it, I could well be wrong.
... oh, and sometimes you can be "eligible" for something. If you're eligible for say a driving ban, you will get one by default unless there are mitigating circumstances. (This is how the Exceptional Hardship plea works, the ban isn't considered a minimum requirement in this sense.)
AIUI, IANAL, YMMV (especially if you're banned).
@Kilo I love that nuggets clip. Its a true classic "don't make me assume my ultimate form" brilliant.
Quite – most drivers seem to dive for the side of the road / full on emergency stop when blue lights appear.
Even when the emergency is in the opposite direction 🙄
Why wouldn't you move to the side when it's in the opposite direction? Anything can happen between it and you*, so by getting out of the way you're potentially helping it get through.
*Daydreaming driver in opposite dir not moving out of the way is most likely, I'm sure there's other examples too
Why wouldn’t you move to the side when it’s in the opposite direction? Anything can happen between it and you*, so by getting out of the way you’re potentially helping it get through.
This. It allows the ambulance driver to plan ahead in case something obstructs their side of the road.
Round here blue lights ambulances go to the wrong side of the road at traffic lights to get thru and / or go down the middle of the road straddling the white lines between junctions
I love that nuggets clip. Its a true classic “don’t make me assume my ultimate form” brilliant.
All it's missing is just after the clip ends, the next driver pulling up and innocently asking "yeah, an order of nuggets please."
most drivers seem to dive for the side of the road / full on emergency stop when blue lights appear.
Is this something that's taught for the test? I don't think I ever was. I suspect a lot of people don't know what to do by best practice and so just stop / panic.
Nuggets redux: https://abc7.com/archive/7542344/
Her defence was that she didn't remember the incident because she was too drunk. 👀
My mate the ex paramedic (the stories, oh the stories) says if blue lights approach from either direction slow down a bit, pull in a bit. That way the numpty behind is less likely to crash into you or overtake you.
Best one was a middle aged woman blocked him for a couple of miles, he finally got past and to the casualty, a minute later the offending car pulls up, it was the casualty's mum 😳
the only time I’ve ever been hit from behind was when I was approaching a large roundabout (by Sheffield arena if anyone knows it, I was travelling from Meadowhall direction)
light was green for me
I heard sirens and saw blue lights approaching from the left, so I slowed and stopped at the green light. Two lane road 40mph limit, so as not to get in the way of the emergency vehicle that was about to enter the roundabout. Nice slow stop. I’d been stopped a couple of seconds then… wham!
driver behind failed to see or hear the blues and twos, or a stationary car in front, straight into the back of me.
Highway Code 219
Emergency and Incident Support vehicles. You should look and listen for ambulances, fire engines, police, doctors or other emergency vehicles using flashing blue, red or green lights and sirens or flashing headlights, or traffic officer and incident support vehicles using flashing amber lights. When one approaches do not panic. Consider the route of such a vehicle and take appropriate action to let it pass, while complying with all traffic signs. If necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop, but try to avoid stopping before the brow of a hill, a bend or narrow section of road. Do not endanger yourself, other road users or pedestrians and avoid mounting the kerb. Do not brake harshly on approach to a junction or roundabout, as a following vehicle may not have the same view as you.
I heard sirens and saw blue lights approaching from the left,
Do you mean the right? I can't picture it otherwise.
Except that would result in you failing your test. Also the only time you are allowed to run a red light (with caution) if it would otherwise impede the emergency services.
Only traffic offence I have on record is a TS10 for doing exactly that, didn't bother contesting on the basis of other unrecorded offences over my driving lifetime & just took it on the chin.
@docrobster given the way folk drive around there that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
@cougar makes sense to me, those roundabouts have roads running through the middle and all sorts of weird shit going on.
I like Nuggets, but I wouldn't "assume my ultimate form" to make someone give me some 🙂
Re ambulances, driving in south west London in the summer and the person driving in front of me pulled to the kerb to let an ambulance overtake us but she did it right next to a middle of the road island with a keep left sign on it. Ambulance couldn't get past until she pulled forward - which took her some time to work out.