[Closed] See - it's not just bikes that some drivers don't "see"

Now with speed overlay

Watching that video a number of times, because of the line of trees and oncoming vehicles, plus the van driver likely not really expecting a large vehicle to be coming from the right, the truck isn't really noticeable until it's almost at the junction; I'm pretty sure the last thing I'd be expecting is some jackass to come screaming out of a side road without apparently slowing for approaching traffic. I wonder if the side-road has give-way signs; I'd expect it to, so pulling straight across without stopping should be a clear infringement.

Compulsory retest with an emphasis on observation for those on the front page who saw a car transporter 🙂

not sure what the answer is to that (other than driverless vans!)

Drones!

The video starts with the filming vehicle just completing an overtake (which can only be on the lorry which comes past as it is parked on the verge. I guess the timber truck has clocked this lorry and is hoping to get in front of it (being empty he doesn't want to be stuck behind a potentially slow moving truck) and is so fixated on the fast approaching truck he fails to notice the video car. Same way that many people pull out in front of bikes/motorbikes.

I reckon the van was obscured by the A pillar and the mirror. As has already been noticed, the HGV is on a constant bearing from the van i.e. it's in the same position in the van's windscreen, so with a straight approach from the side road, the same will be true for the view of the van from the HGV, and it looks like it's at just the right angle to be behind the A pillar.

The HGV driver could have looked several times in the 5+ seconds before the approach and not seen the van. Not making excuses, but a likely explanation.

I bet that left a massive skid mark

I bet the car isn't Hi Viz.

Now with speed overlay

Hang on a minute, isn't he driving a van?

So [url= https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits ]the limit for him is 50 on an NSL single carriageway[/url]?

Looks like Molgrips was right he was going over the speed limit - and he is a bit daft for incriminating himself.

That doesn't excuse the transporter driver though.

[b]EDIT[/b]: hmmm he says in the YouToob comments: [i]"My van is not restricted to 50, it has rear seats and windows?"[/i]. But then he also complains about the average speed cameras which are forcing vans to obey the limit.

"My van is not restricted to 50, it has rear seats and windows?".

Only valid if it's caddy sized or has been re-plated if it's a Vivarro/Transit sized vehicle. My boss was ticketed for 65 on a dual carriageway in the crew van (5 seater), learning the hard way about weight restrictions.

Looks like as we thought - he does back off through the junction, fair play to him - looks like he's seen the lorry but doesn't think it's going to pull out, as we thought above.

It's clear when scrutinising the video that the lorry's not braking and hence looks like he's going for it - but of course that's totally different to being in the driving seat. Plus whilst we may take cues like that when riding bikes, the speeds are much higher when driving so it happens quicker.

As far as I'm concerned he's in the clear. Case closed 🙂

Plus whilst we may take cues like that when riding bikes, the speeds are much higher when driving so it happens quicker.

Interestingly in the YouToob description of the second video he notes that he is a motorcyclist and is used to this kind of thing happening on his bike, but it's a bit more unusual for someone to SMIDSY a big sodding van.

I suspect his experiences on a bike may have actually helped him there, many drivers wouldn't have processed that situation until it was too late.

I suspect his experiences on a bike may have actually helped him there, many drivers wouldn't have processed that situation until it was too late.

Yes. I found that experience from MTBing helped me in my low speed situation - being able to read ahead and pick a line, so to speak whilst under pressure. I basically did what he did only on the other side - had to slot my car as much as possible in the shrinking gap between the pulling out car and the queue of traffic oncoming. Ended up with a slightly dented bumper on the corner instead of a frontal smash.

The problem with "post event analysis" is that it is just that, post event. You know the outcome.

In the real world, trucks arrive at T junctions several millions times a day. if every time you saw one, you performed an emergency stop, you'd never get anywhere at all (and you'd get rear ended all the time too, ooh matron.....

So, regression to normality becomes the significant factor in (near) accidents like this. In fact, i think the driver did ok. He was driving at an appropriate speed (imo) and when it became clear the truck wasn't going to stop, he brakes under control, and remembered to steer out of the way )amazing how many people just brake and then drive straight into the object, even when they could have just driven around it!)

I think a fair proportion of distracted drivers on our roads probably wouldn't have even spotted the truck at all and just driven straight into it........

This nails it for me.

It's easy to look at that video and see a lorry that's "obviously" not going to stop, when there's a big text box on the side of the vid going "watch the lorry approaching from the right." Fact is, most drivers would expect him not to just pull out into traffic. In fact, I'd expect the majority of drivers would've been gazing into the middle distance and not seen it at all.

Even a relatively observant driver would see it and assume that it was going to stop, it's difficult to gauge relative speed from that video but there would be a delay between seeing the lorry, realising he was coming in a bit hot, realising that he wasn't stopping but pulling out onto the first half of the carriageway, and realising that he'd no intention of stopping at all. As Graham says you still need to process what you're seeing, and disbelief would slow your reactions too - "he must have seen me." Then once you've realised what's going on you've to make a decision very quickly on what action to take.

I'd like to think that I'd have seen him, and would've been at least backing off and covering the brake before he pulled out; I do tend to scan into junctions and across crossroads just in case someone's decided that red is the new green. But it's difficult to really know. I reckon the van driver did at least as well as could be reasonably expected of anyone, and considerably better than most people would've done.

Interestingly - the visibility is very good at that jucntion - could this be part of the problem? Because we're encouraged to continue without stopping at give ways when you can see, people want to do it, and this could lead to this. If there'd been a few more trees in the way the lorry driver would've been forced to stop.

This is acknowledged when designing roundabouts, I think - they make the entries sharper to force pepole to slow down. There's a bugger of a roundabout near our house that's really hard to get out of - and it's because it's TOO well sighted that people approaching it don't bother slowing down (they have right of way after all) and cruise through at 25. Because it's small though it means there's never a chance for anyone else to get out.

So - can you have too much visibility?

I reckon the van driver did at least as well as could be reasonably expected of anyone, and considerably better than most people would've done.

+1

Through his own actions he walked away uninjured from what could have easily been a fatal accident. I'd count that as a win.

Anecdotally,

I used to work off J20 (Lymm) of the M6. I was turning right off the odd little double-roundabout junction, and the number of people entering the roundabout from the opposite carriageway who [i]just didn't stop[/i] was incredible.

It got to the point where I was expecting them not to stop by default, covering the brakes, and looking for eye contact with the approaching drivers so that I knew they'd seen me. Even when they'd looked me right in the eyes I reckon I had about one a week who still just sailed into the junction with gay abandon, and many of them were trucks or vans. Whether they just don't see, or don't care because they're bigger than you, I don't know. But it was definitely a Thing.

So - can you have too much visibility?

Absolutely - classic Risk Compensation.

If you make a road "safer" by making it straighter, with better sight lines, wider lanes, smoother surfaces etc then people will drive faster on it and subsequently the actual risk won't fall by nearly as much as you might expect.

So are the police involved?

Whether they just don't see, or don't care because they're bigger than you, I don't know.

I'd guess it is a bit of both.

If you are much smaller then you present less of a threat to them and you don't register on the instinctual "caveman" predator/prey brain. It's an extra mental step to consider the threat that they pose to you.

And if you are "unusual" traffic (i.e. something not car-shaped, or even a car doing something different to the rest of the herd) then that can require an extra mental leap too.

So are the police involved?

Yep. Telegraph article said "The junction is known as something of an incident black spot and Police Scotland, who have been made aware of the video, are now investigating."

I cycle through J30 of the M4 a lot, and I'm always worried that people coming up the sliproad from the West won't stop and will simply take me out. However it's actually a little difficult to see because of the crash barriers and fences on the overpass, and because you come up from below the roadway. So people seem quite happy to stop and look properly.

If road designers show people a huge expanse of road it seems that their brain is happy to assume it's clear without a close look (including myself here).

It was very foggy this morning on the way to work, the amount of drivers without lights on was surprising, and they were usually the ones in the silver/grey/fog coloured cars 😕

Houns - Member
Logging truck driver being a bat £&)( mental driver shocker

There is something especially bat excrement mental about logging truck drivers, some absolute loons on the A68 usually.

Thank god it wasn't DezB in the van.
He would have carried on driving into the lorry to 'make a point'.
Or maybe caught up with the lorry and crashed into it, also to 'make a point'.

So are the police involved?

It's on the H&I Division facebook feed as being investigated.

It's on the H&I Division facebook feed as being investigated.

Gotta get one of those cameras!

"My van is not restricted to 50, it has rear seats and windows?".

Only valid if it's caddy sized or has been re-plated if it's a Vivarro/Transit sized vehicle. My boss was ticketed for 65 on a dual carriageway in the crew van (5 seater), learning the hard way about weight restrictions.

It's not even as simple as that, I've had two VW T4 Multivans, both 5/7 seaters, and obviously both the same size etc.

First one was subject to the "van" limits. But the current one isn't.

It's all down to what's on the V5, not necessarily the size/shape/seats/windows etc.

Aye,, it's all a bit confusing and includes factors like rear windows, whether or not there's a bulkhead and the relative length of the unseated load bay to the rest of the vehicle.

A Crew Van (therefore normally with a bulkhead) will be at the lower limits.

On a related "is that truck stopping or not" (not even "what truck") note, one tip I always recall from Motorcycle Roadcraft (I think, the equivalent of the car manual Roadcraft) - if a vehicle is stopped at a T junction as you approach, to pull out, check the wheels (as they turn and can be seen to change quicker) rather than the vehicle itself (although eye contact with driver is good).

[i]Gotta get one of those cameras![/i]

I bought one after nearly being rammed by a Big Black Car on my side of the road. A week later same B B C was tailgating me, showing how skilled they were by being really close.

Wished I'd bought a second dash cam for the rear winsdow.

[quote=kcal ]On a related "is that truck stopping or not" (not even "what truck") note, one tip I always recall from Motorcycle Roadcraft (I think, the equivalent of the car manual Roadcraft) - if a vehicle is stopped at a T junction as you approach, to pull out, check the wheels (as they turn and can be seen to change quicker) rather than the vehicle itself (although eye contact with driver is good).
I use that more when pulling out of a T junction. I never rely on indicators of vehicles on the "main" road and always wait until the approaching vehicle has actually started to manoeuvre into the road I'm exiting.

Just over a year ago I had an incident like in the video. Other driver in an MPV just didnt look right as she came out of a minor road to our right at a cross-roads. We were right on the junction though and in the slow motion that happens during something like this I remember glancing over to her and seeing she was completely oblivious to us, presumably right to the point she ploughed into the side of us as she didn't brake at all (I was busy trying to make sure we didn't plough into the side of the guy sitting at the junction on our left). Fortunately the pub on the corner had CCTV which instantly dispelled the claims of "you came out of no-where" that came up as soon as her husband appeared on the scene (who she was out of the car and on the phone to as soon as the accident happened instead of coming over to check we were okay in the car she just drove into). Never even so much as an apology.

Then this week I have had two people cut across me at a traffic light cross-roads when I have been turning right and they have been turning left. 1st one nearly hit the back of the car in front of us and I had to brake hard and slotted in behind it. I was speechless.

"you came out of no-where"

What does that even mean? Are they suggesting you beamed down from the Enterprise in front of them?

People.

What does that even mean? Are they suggesting you beamed down from the Enterprise in front of them?

What does that even mean? Are they suggesting you beamed down from the Enterprise in front of them?

People.

the mind boggles. Police where baffled too and when the pub landlord showed they the CCTV footage they came back and could confirm that indeed we did not come from no-where but drove down the road in a safe and reasonable manner and the blame was 100% the other party.

Police can confirm that following enquiries in to video footage of a lorry on the A9 at the Tomich junction, a 43 year-old man has been reported to the Procurator Fiscal for road traffic offences.
Police would like to remind all road users to be vigilant when driving, especially when approaching or negotiating busy junctions.

Good.

Though, as the guy who actually posted the video said, given that it is a known "blackspot" what they really need to do is look at why the layout of that junction encourages people to behave that way.

I've had a few incidents recently too. I don't know if anyone knows the A3, but in several places it has very minor roads that join the dual carriageway with almost no sliproad. Well, someone came down one and drove straight onto the road in front of me at about 30mph. i could sort of see the situation developing, so was covering the brake thinking "he's not going to? is he? is h... YEP... " and braked very very heavily (traffic in outisde lane), smoke off tyres etc..

Calmed down, then overtook and he was completely oblivious.

Anyone recommend a dash cam? Do they do ones that record front and rear automatically?

I'd be interested to hear if anyone's had dash-cam video accepted by their insurance Co. in support of a claim. I did read somewhere that Aviva stated they wouldn't accept such. But then I wouldn't personally use Aviva for other reasons.

How could they not accept incontrovertible video evidence? In any case, the Police clearly are interested in it so that's something at least.

Because they can't be arsed looking at it and it is much easier for them to just call it a knock-for-knock 50/50 claim.

Glad the Police are doing something about this idiot.

I use that junction regularly. What you can't see from the vid is that the visibility to the truck driver's right is poorer than it is to the left. The road falls away to the right in a sort of long dip, obscuring cars approaching.

Even with the added height from a lorry cab, there's no way anyone should be wheeling out of that junction like that unless in the middle of the night hen the road is quiet and you can see lights approaching.

Not trying to defend his actions, but as an HGV Class 1 licence holder myself It's reasonably easy to see the errors he made. Rolled up to the junction too fast while trying not to lose too much momentum, [b][u]quick[/u][/b] look right and left, all clear, pull out onto the road.

I've done a similar thing but at a much slower speed in a 30mph limit. Just started pulling out when a council lorry shot past the windscreen. When I'd looked left, he was completely hidden behind the "A" pillar and the left hand mirrors. I braked hard and stopped well before the centre line but it certainly got the old heart pounding.

Modern trucks now have about 6 different mirrors to look in, which by the time you've done that(properly) and looked where you want to go etc, quite a bit of time has elapsed, with a potential change in the situation occurring in the meantime. In town/city driving you end-up prioritising the mirrors most likely to be pointing in the area of highest risk.

You really do need to keep checking left as you start to pull across a junction. If you look at this link to the incident site [url= https://www.google.com/maps/ @57.709085,-4.18229,3a,75y,257.05h,88.98t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sILsN1y2g_BuVI46-kuqCig!2e0]Stacked Signs[/url] and imagine you are the truck driver sitting a bit higher, the stack of signs also block the view of the road to the left.

I really don't see that the driver intended to "bully his way" out of the junction, but he [b]seriously misjudged the situation[/b] in his attempts to "make progress".

The sooner all our cars are (anonymously) tracked and monitored, the better. The lorry would've been forced to stop cos 'the system' would've known there was a car coming...

The sooner all our cars are (anonymously) tracked and monitored, the better. The lorry would've been forced to stop cos 'the system' would've known there was a car coming...

The problem is there'll always be older cars without it. Then in 10 years time everyone in an 11 year old car will be killed as the system reaches critical mass and people stop looking for themselves.

I do agree in principal though that all cars should come with all (external, if you want a car without airbags thats a personal choice)saftey related stuff as standard. There's a principal in the oil industry called ALARP (as low as reasnobly practical) simplified, it means that not only does a system have to be demonstrated to kill someone less frequently than every 1000* years, but above that you have to show that any other available technology or options aren't cost effective based on a 'cost' of $1million of killing someone, so a $500 option that has a 1in2000 or greater chance of saving a life would become best practice and therefore mandatory.

*that's not a random figure, statisticaly 10x safer than driving a car which is deemed to be the riskiest thing a reasnoble person will do

This looks like the one............Check the size of the mirrors and the blind spot created with the "A" post of the cab.

[img] [/img]

[quote=nealglover] It's not even as simple as that, I've had two VW T4 Multivans, both 5/7 seaters, and obviously both the same size etc.
First one was subject to the "van" limits. But the current one isn't.
It's all down to what's on the V5, not necessarily the size/shape/seats/windows etc.

Which supports the point that whether or not 60 is illegal for his van is kind of irrelevant.

The problem is there'll always be older cars without it

Satellite imagery.

There's a principal in the oil industry called ALARP (as low as reasnobly practical)

I've told you before, it really meeans 'As Little As Regulator Permits' 😉

"I'd be interested to hear if anyone's had dash-cam video accepted by their insurance Co. in support of a claim. I did read somewhere that Aviva stated they wouldn't accept such. But then I wouldn't personally use Aviva for other reasons."

admiral wouldnt accept the footage from a bus company showing a corsa driving into my car and ramming me into a bus.

corsa claimed i drove into her (which to do id have to have strafed side ways) and admiral went with her story (she was also admiral)

More so - i had similar to the OP happen to me this morning except with a KIA sportage.

See him rolling up to the junction - he looks at me coming towards him at 40 , then pulls out , cue 4 wheel lock up , close inspection of his chassis number and the horn on.

"Though, as the guy who actually posted the video said, given that it is a known "blackspot" what they really need to do is look at why the layout of that junction encourages people to behave that way."

i know the road up there well, mrs TR used to work in invergordon school , its a long fairly straight with a crossroads into it from both sides

its a black spot because its a nice wide road with good sight lines along it (and poor visibility of the side roads, Although signposted heavily and road marked), folks feel they can do 100+ along it..... based on the number of folks that would overtake me like i was standing still when i was doing 60......

This issue about vans/car speed limits is an issue that has consumed people for decades and its fuelled by suggestion, misstruths and personal experience.

After 16yrs in the motor trade (including VW selling T4 & T5 kombis) I know what the rules are. Its pretty simple unless STW's get involved and try to screw with it.

1) A LGV (Light goods vehicle) vehicle is subject to speed limits as covered hundreds of times. 50/60/70 etc etc. It is not subject (at present) to immissions related road licence, rather it is based on either its GVW (Gross vehicle weight) of 3.5t and below and then higher catagories which can then take into axle configuration etc. Can you believe a 5t Sprinter is cheaper to licence than a 3.5t Sprinter? There are certain exemptions from the above which are usually ambulances, motorhomes and car derived vans. A VW caddy, citreon berlingo, Renault kangoo is not a car derived van. They are VANs and registered as such. Putting a set of windows in the back and a set of seats in the back does not turn them into cars and higher speed limits unless you go through the process of reclassing them and I have never seen anyone go through the hastle.

Now the popular misunderstanding has arisen because VW (The popular vehicle on STW) had a period where the vehicles were registered either as cars or vans. There was a time where VW on the T4/T5 did issue docs for them in this way and they could be registered as either. If you had a late T4 with the dirty 2.5tdi engine and you wanted to tax it as a car you got the privaledge of paying about £500 to tax it which didn't go down very well so they changed everything to LGV. Most customers preferred the lower road licence payment.

If you really want to find a car derived van which hasn't got the lower speed limits you are looking at

Ford fiesta van
Vauxhall corsa van
etc etc

Cars with basically their back windows blanked and the rear seats removed.

Getting a Renault traffic and fitting seats and a couple of windows does not change a vehicles taxation class. It is still registered as a LGV and still subject to the laws/speed limits.

How do I know?

Well not all speed cameras are manned. They take a picture of your reg number and then work out the applicable speed limit to your vehicle. These cameras know the grand total of nothing about what has or hasn't been done to your vehicle. Only how the vehicle was originally registered or how it has been altered in the case of a motorhome conversion and re register. That camera then sends you the ticket.

Convert your vehicles all you like. Unless you re register them and class them as a motorhome then I would like to see any proof of someone getting a ticket for doing 70 on a A road and only getting done for 10mph over the speed limit rather than the expected 20mph over.

Oh, and obviously there are car registered vehicles from Renault based on the Kangoo, Fiat based on the Doblo and all the other examples from VW, Mercedes etc etc. These are REGISTERED as cars and have all the legal requirements and type approvals for this.

We actually sell 2 identical vehicles in our range where one is registered as a car and one as a van. Regardless of the customers preference he can only do van speed limits in the one registered as a LGV

which is comical really as the 600L berlingo van is under 2tonne gross(1730kg and the 800L is 1930KG ) AND the M59 chassis is shared with the car in as much as that the footwells for the car are still under the rear load bed....

the m49 first gen might have been a van first but the m59 was released as a car and van at the same time 😉 chicken and egg bull shit from the vehicle licensing folk again.

the B9 model is derived from the C3 chassis.

that said ive treated mine as a car for the last 6 years and had no issue with police - only ever had to explain car derived > 2tonnes and show them the footwells under the load bed on one occasion for doing 70 on a dual carridgeway and they accepted it

And how do you explain that to an unmanned camera then?
You may have treated it like a car for 6yrs and had incidents where you got away with it but if you drive that vehicle, registered as a LGV at 70mph on an A road through an unmanned camera then you will be done for doing 20mph over the limit, not 10mph.

The reason most people get away with it (I drove a similar vehicle for 5yrs and never got done either) is because they sit at 60mph and it doesn't set off the unmanned cameras. I get about half a dozen calls a year from people doing exactly that and complaining.

I almost bought a dashcam after being nearly being smudged out by a large lorry on the M60 through 50 average cams. It seems the cams didnt apply to him- so he came up behind me- flashed his lights on full beam, then swiftly undertook and then moved hard right broadsiding me- then he repeated the same move at least three more times ahead.

Either Godzilla was behind us or average cameras dont work on trucks.

Luckily I'm not easily spooked behind the wheel of a car- I just played it abit BTCC.

Why would i go past a speed camera at over the car limit anyway ? Thats just darwinism at work. If you et caught speeding by a static cam in the uk you deserve everything you get. They aint exactly hidden

Surely the a9 average speeds cameras would pick up via plate recognition im an lgv and bill me accordingly for hoverig around the 70 mark on my gps so an indicated 78 - but just flowing with the traffic so i assume my speedos the one thats out seeing as its french.

Ive done the journey and few times and never been pinged.

Maybe you should email the scottish polce service and let them know.

Satellite imagery.

In the UK 😆

As always a STW talks in personal experience and if it fits then that's the law.

[i]Surely the a9 average speeds cameras would pick up via plate recognition im an lgv and bill me accordingly for hoverig around the 70 mark on my gps so an indicated 78 - but just flowing with the traffic so i assume my speedos the one thats out seeing as its french[/i]

Look, if your vehicle is registered as a LGV then it is subject to LGV speed restrictions. I don't give a flying flip what circumstance you got away with things. Maybe the cameras weren't working. Maybe they had run out of film. Maybe they decided to let you off. I don't really care. I don't drive at all times to the speed limits but amazingly I have a clean licence.

Fact is a vehicle registered as a LGV is subject to the 50/60/70 limits.

yes i missed out the question mark but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out its a question rather than a statement of fact.

Do the average speed cameras not see your an LGV by plate recognition ???????? (its a question - i dont really want a speeding ticket next time i do the journey.)

I don't know what the average speed cameras use to take your speed. But then average speed cameras are a temporary average speed for all vehicles. That's not really the point. If a car was exceeding that speed they would also get the fine etc. The point is an LGV has a speed limit of 50/60/70 unless the points I raised are in force.

Getting away with it, mistakes and sheer luck don't really come into it. When the question is asked, what speed limit is my vehicle capabale of, look at the V5, check how it is registered and there is your answer

ill check it when i go home , google foo says you would have to be unlucky to have an older sub 2000gvw blingo that isnt a car derived van as most manufacturers were belting them out on car derived log books - but to add further to the mix - folks with CDV on their log books HAVE been getting tickets for van speed limits....

I know we like to go off on tangents (I'm as guilty as anybody), but can I just point out that all this talk about van/car speed limits is totally irrelevant to the situation in the video.

hora - Member

I almost bought a dashcam after being nearly being smudged out by a large lorry on the M60 through 50 average cams. It seems the cams didnt apply to him- so he came up behind me- flashed his lights on full beam, then swiftly undertook and then moved hard right broadsiding me- then he repeated the same move at least three more times ahead.

So there was an empty lane to your left with a gap large enough for a lorry to pass you? 🙄

The question is why didn't the driver in the vid use his chaingun or missile pods that every car come (should) come armed with? 8)

Apologies for going OT but something needs correcting:-

Littlesthobo

I suggest you research "Dual Purpose Vehicle". A lot of what you describe (vans with seats) CAN have car speed limits.

And as it is a legal requirement that your V5 accurately reflects the build of the vehicle, it should be updated as such if those changes are made.

Things like number of seats can be changed but I don't beleive the vehicle category can be changed as it's related to the type approval. So an N1 'van' will always be N1 and can't be changed to an M1 passenger vehicle.

I am going to check some V5's

So there was an empty lane to your left with a gap large enough for a lorry to pass you?

Yup- two things

It was just before where two motorways merge onto the M60 in the form of double lanes at speed. Therefore if you can you move over (no legal requirement I agree).

Secondly- in average roadworks designed to protect workers I will not rigidly move to the left fullstop. If someone is in a rush I'd love to let them through and get their points but I'm not going to throw myself out of the way.

Still Checking

I have just checked a V5 for you.

A Vauxhall Corsa Van (11 plate)
D.5 Body Type - Car Derived Van
Taxation Class - Light Goods Vehicle

This vehicle will have the car speed limits.

I am going to have a look at the class's listed on my 2014 Vito Dualiner and report back

5 seater factory fresh Vito Dualiner 2014

D.5 Body Type - Panel Van
Taxation Class - LGV

Has anyone got a vehicle registered as a Dual Purpose vehicle with the taxation class of LGV?

For comparison my T5 factory kombi is...

D.5 Body Type = Van/Side Windows
Taxation class = Diesel Car (yes I get hit with C02 emissions based VED)
J Vehicle Category = M1

Thanks Mark. So you can do car speeds etc as the vehicle is registered as a diesel car.

Actually been looking at the gov.uk site but I am bored now. Unless you have anything that states Car Derived then my advice stands. PLG - Car, LGV - Van

I think vehicle category and taxation class are the key points.

I think that all M1 will be PLG and C02 based (post 2001), N1 will be LVG.

My only problem is getting the jobsworths at the local council tip, sorry waste recycling facility, to agree it's a car 😡

I had a look Both my partner van and berlingo multispace have car derived van under body type and the vans has taxation class as LGV the berlingos a multispace and is PLG for tax.

So the facts are still as clear as mud on that one. Your bigger vans fair enough they are all over the 2000gvw limit anyway.

Any of the van speed stuff apply to pick up trucks?

Specifically Nissan Navarro?

ope your good with em , they are dual purpose vehicles with clearly defined load space and passenger compartment.