[Closed] Secondary School - detentions

30 mins isn't long enough.

My two high school age  kids could easily claim to  lose half an hour dawdling home and we would be none the wiser.

It needs to be long enough that the parents should be asking where they are.

An hour would be more like it.

If the complaining parents managed and disciplined their daughter as much as spending time on facebook, maybe she would behave better. Kids behaviour/discipline is much worse now than when I was a kid. And as you say treat it as a life lesson otherwise.

Ours were an hour, but were never handed out on the day - they were always a subsequent day to the offence.

30mins is first offence, well first detention at my Son's school. You'd get that for forgetting homework more than once.

60 for repeat offences.

1-day exclusion for fighting (usually).

Comes with an automated e-mail notification.

My son's school brought in Real to Learnt last year. He thinks it's a great idea (and so do we).

He's had one detention - for forgetting his PE kit.  30mins. We get a text from the school.

Point out they should shut up and deal with their daughters behavior rather than go off on one.

If my daughter were to get detention there would be trouble and it wouldn't be directed at the school!

To be honest in this day and age I`m surprised any kids that are given detention actually bother to turn up for it. After all what will happen if they don't? Double detention?

30mins is nothing, used to be 1 hr in my day.

My only issue as a parent would be if the detention was on the same day the offence happened ie being held back after school. It would be better with a note home to parents saying they were being kept back the next day (allowing arrangements to be made).

I collect my kids from 2 different schools at 2 different times, sometimes then rushing off to work etc. Where we live there are no buses home and it is too far/dangerous to walk. So if I was sitting outside the school for 30 mins with no prior warning it would cause me a few issues, but let me know in advance and i would make alternative arrangements and fully support the detention.

From my experiences of working in a school that was in special measures and being turned around, we had a serious crackdown, setting many detentions. Headteacher luckily had an iron will and did not bend to pressure and kept them up.

Number of detentions soon went down when most parents became supportive. The ones that moaned were usually the ones who were useless at dealing with the behaviour of their kids, and took no responsibility for actions.

If behaviour is an issue, it will only turn around if parents are on board with behaviour policy. Well done for sticking your neck out though OP on social media. If more parents were like you, we'd have less behaviour issues in school.

The school should have a clear policy, so you can see the time they will spend after school for certain actions. It should escalate up for repeat offenders. Have they shared the new behaviour policy at all OP?

Point out they should shut up and deal with their daughters behavior rather than go off on one.

If the complaining parents managed and disciplined their daughter as much as spending time on facebook, maybe she would behave better.

Yep - that's pretty much what I've said in the past over the changes to policy; what lesson is it when the parental response to some of these (deliberately) strict edicts is 'that's ridiculous, my Chanel won't be doing that'

examples:  school bags should be rucksack / messenger style, not fashion style handbags.

Shirts should be top buttoned and ties done up (teachers discretion on allowing ties to be removed during lessons in hot weather

Pupils to stand when a teacher enters the classroom

- it's culture today I'm afraid; no respect for authority, and the apple seldom falls far from the tree.

To be honest in this day and age I`m surprised any kids that are given detention actually bother to turn up for it. After all what will happen if they don’t? Double detention?

Frankly since the advent of league tables School aren't afraid to exclude kids for surprisingly little.

The 30 mins detentions are so that the teachers are still home in time for Countdown

@ Mr Whyte

Yes, quite clearly at end of last term so everyone had chance the read, assimilate and adopt. Or spend all summer moaning about it.

Best comment so far was:

"I'm reliably informed that the year 8 girls are going to riot over the new school uniform (basically skirt length)"

well we're 3 weeks into term now and I've not yet noticed the police water cannon. I'd love to know her 'reliable' source 😉

I went to a school that didn't use detention (as far as I know none in my local authority area did).  Therefore I find the idea rather odd.  As I understand it, my son's school issues detentions either at lunchtime, or on a day later in the week but then writes to the parents to tell them.  I find the idea of immediate punishment without a "fair hearing" rather archaic, and fundamentally flawed.  I'd question the power of a school to detain a child after the school day.  Presumably pupils who travel on a school bus can't be subject to such regimes?  What if they have a pre-arranged expectation to meet a younger sibling to escort them home? How does the school avoid creating anxiety in parents when children are "overdue"?  Having gone to a school which seemed to manage without capital punishment or detention to hold things together (in challenging big city - probably about middle of the table school) I wonder why a new head thinks that is the best way to exert control.   Having said all that, my general rule with whingers on Facebook groups like that is to take the opposite position!

Having said all that, my general rule with whingers on Facebook groups like that is to take the opposite position!

By 'Facebook groups', I think you meant 'the internet'

My sons secondary school is 1 hr on an appointed day (never the same day) I fully support this, as my adopted son quite frequently has them, and needs the discipline

With regards to not respecting authority nowadays; can anyone blame them? I mean look at who's in charge or the news when there's a big debate on in parliament and they are (in the main) a pure disgrace and certainly don't attract any respect in my opinion.

Therefore I don't think they should respect authority for the sake of it. If it was one of mine, I'd want to know the backstory to the detention, from BOTH SIDES before I agreed to it.

I find the idea of immediate punishment without a “fair hearing” rather archaic, and fundamentally flawed.

In general yes..... but school discipline is not quite the same as 'the real world', and for minor misdemeanors such as 'forgetting' your PE kit, answering back, chewing gum in class, and so on you can hardly convene a disciplinary panel and conduct a trial. Absolutely for major stuff leading to exclusions and expulsions.

I see what you say that some schools seem to manage without such draconian control, but as said, the discipline has got bad and you can't claw it back bit by bit, you need a total reset and then relax once the behaviour shows that it can be relaxed.

I’d want to know the backstory to the detention, from BOTH SIDES before I agreed to it.

Schools aren't the judicial system or a democracy.

And a 30min detention for fighting, 'forgetting' to do work, or forgetting equipment is nothing compared to the real world is it?  The real world is a criminal record or losing your job!

I’ll I’d support the idea as long as I was made aware beforehand. I do find detention odd though. I remember my head of year in 5th form issuing me with a detention for failing to attend an I.H class. I simply stated that if I failed to attend the class, why on earth would I attend a detention for not attending said class.

On the whole “back in my day, knew respect blah, blah” front, I’ve always believed respect is earned and never automatically given. Just because someone is in a position of authority doesn’t mean they’re not being a dick.

DT (as we called them) used to be a bit of a pain.  Up to an hour writing some lines out.  But a "Satdee" was more of a deterrent.  Rock up to school on Saturday morning at 9 in full uniform and be stuck in till 10:30.  That was in the swinging and permissive 60s.

Still, it was usually a choice between a Saturday or 6 of the best - as a caning on a bent-over arse was called.

Easy, bring back 'The Whack' (cane)

It would save loads of time.

To be honest in this day and age I`m surprised any kids that are given detention actually bother to turn up for it. After all what will happen if they don’t? Double detention?

For the most part kids don’t give a f about their education and would rather be off doing something else especially in mid teens.

Having seen a few teachers have full breakdowns from the abuse from parents who don’t believe their child can be wrong. I can’t see a way forward unless authority is given back.. I never got to say that my teachers were disrespecting me... mind you they could give you detention till 7pm on a Saturday.. not turning up to detention normally meant not turning up on Monday as you were excluded...

must have been shit for the teachers who had to supervise detention...

 it’s culture today I’m afraid; no respect for authority, and the apple seldom falls far from the tree.

If the school thinks that respect is demonstrated through standing up and doing up a tie, then its priorities are seriously awry.

Anyway, I don't think that schools should be detaining children without informing parents first. Mine certainly didn't, despite being full of petty rules.

Most schools will have a policy that contact home is made for after school d/t's. Some have automated texts, some email and some phone calls or even just a note in diary. You'd be amazed how many parents wont answer if the call comes from school or give the school an incorrect email address or a dead phone number.

I have a pastoral role within a high school, unless it was due to a serious incident I wouldn't hold a pupil longer than 10 minutes within making contact with parents/carers.

When detentions are issued a text message is sent to the number 1 contact to inform them.

If the school thinks that respect is demonstrated through standing up and doing up a tie, then its priorities are seriously awry.

Sighs......

It's part of a whole package of measures. There is, in some quarters at least, a lack of respect for teachers and the staff in general, and so they are addressing everything from minor stuff like standing up and uniform to bullying. These are just examples of the kind of stuff that some of the FB parents are openly abusive about / that they 'threatened' they'd tell their kids to ignore.

I’ve always believed respect is earned

Yep - and by going into teaching, you automatically are given the credit that enables you to require reasonable orders are followed. You don't have to re-earn it with every kid.

So - in your opinion - whether its priorities are wrong or not, if the school decides its policy is that kids stand up when a teacher enters a room, and a kid refuses, either because they refuse or their Mum has told them to. No issue, because it's a dumb idea anyway? Or an example of how ****ed up the balance of respect has become that a simple request becomes a major problem that escalates.

Just stand up FFS. It's the school rules!

It’s part of a whole package of measures.

An utterly pointless part that is a distraction from what the school should be focussing on.

No issue, because it’s a dumb idea anyway? Or an example of how **** up the balance of respect has become that a simple request becomes a major problem that escalates.

If you think that children standing demonstrates respect (rather than grudging compliance because the alternative is a punishment) then I think you're very naïve.

If you think that children standing demonstrates respect (rather than grudging compliance because the alternative is a punishment) then I think you’re very naïve.

Grudging compliance is life. Be it not driving like a dick, turning up to work/appointments on time or just following the social niceties.

Is understanding that there are some rules in life to follow and that adults are in charge not children such a bad thing?

You have an environment where children can learn rules and what happens if you break them and the worst thing to happen is you have to stay late or get shouted at.

<p>

Having gone to a school which seemed to manage without capital punishment or detention to hold things together (in challenging big city – probably about middle of the table school)

If you think that children standing demonstrates respect

No, children standing doesn't demonstrate respect. Following the rules demonstrates respect for the authority of the Head Teacher / Governing Body, and if one of those rules is having your tie done up and standing when a teacher / adult enters the room, so be it.

Same day detention sounds a bit much. I can think of a few kids that I teach where that could cause serious problems. Giving parents/carers (or sometimes the child) an option of which weekday to do the detention seems more sensible to me.

As for the school rules, they are often set far beyond what is really necessary to provide a bit of a buffer. For example, when I taught in a school for excluded kids we were VERY strict about them bringing chewing gum into school. The kids would come up with all kinds of wacky capers to smuggle in gum. The thing was, a lot of the kids had access to much worse at home, but they were far too busy bringing in chewing gum.

@poly.....really glad you went to a school without capital punishment 🙂

By ‘Facebook groups’, I think you meant ‘the internet’

Actually whingers in real life too - but Facebook groups do seem to attract a particular type of individual who is devoid of rational thought or reason.

Schools aren’t the judicial system or a democracy.

But they are (mostly) instruments of the state, and so should be applying the principles of the Human Rights Act, as well as one would hope the UN Rights of the Child.  Those don't preclude discipline or punishment - they do however expect there to be fairness, and means of redress.

And a 30min detention for fighting, ‘forgetting’ to do work, or forgetting equipment is nothing compared to the real world is it?  The real world is a criminal record or losing your job!

Fighting is a criminal offence so I'd expect something a bit more serious than the punishment for forgetting to do something.  I'm not even suggesting that a punishment is not justified for "forgetting" stuff - but should the punishment be decided by the teacher who is pissed off?  What if we let the police determine guilt and set the punishment too.  It becomes very easy to stigmatise the pupil who is always in trouble (or forgive the one who is usually very good), or perhaps to be less tolerant of the smelly kid, the asian kid, the girl who wears a longer skirt, the kid who is a bit thick (perhaps because of some learning issues), the kid who's brother you taught and was a dick, etc.

You don’t have to re-earn it with every kid.

Really - even if it might be expected, I think we all remember teachers who got less respect than others - so if its not earned it can certainly be lost.  Weird stuff like making people stand up is probably the sort of thing that causes it - its not a courtroom, modern teaching is a cooperative relationship.

For the most part kids don’t give a f about their education and would rather be off doing something else especially in mid teens.

Actually that's really not me experience, certainly some don't, but from what I see they actually are engaged - probably by not being made to stand up everytime a teacher walks into a room.  Way more that I was ever engaged with understanding what I was learning or why when I was at school - and I was one of the "good" ones.  Why is that?  Perhaps because teaching has evolved from someone standing at the front shouting about stuff to more of a collaborative process with the 'learners'.

Having seen a few teachers have full breakdowns from the abuse from parents who don’t believe their child can be wrong.

Yes - could probably do with educating teachers better on handling parents and difficult discussions.  There are many careers where you have to deal with difficult people.

Pupils to stand when a teacher enters the classroom

Lol. I don't have kids but almost wish I did when I read that, they'd be kneeling like a black NFL payer in protest at that shite. What a load of bollocks, what kind of power trip are these teachers on?

Following the rules demonstrates respect for the authority of the Head Teacher / Governing Body, and if one of those rules is having your tie done up and standing when a teacher / adult enters the room, so be it.

No, it demonstrates grudging compliance, and serves no useful purpose either at school, or in adult life. Other than learning that some teachers are on a power trip.

Grudging compliance is life. Be it not driving like a dick, turning up to work/appointments on time or just following the social niceties.

There is a purpose to punctuality and safe driving.

Totally against detention, and many of the other authoritarian bollocks schools do. I have bitter experience of the unfair 'justice' of teachers. As good as they are, teachers are the worst people to be meting out 'punishments'. Remove troublemakers from lessons if required to minimise disruption, and exclude if disruptive behaviour continues, but outside of that they have no right to detain pupils or confiscate property (phones for example) outside of school hours.

And from an idelogical point of view, I don't really want my kids to spend their days being scared of whatever consequences might befall them for honest mistakes like forgetting books, homework, bits of PE kit, or having to blindly conform to whatever bullshit rule the megolamaniac discipline secretary thought of this week. It's a bloody school not a military training facility.

There is a purpose to punctuality and safe driving.

Indeed, and both more effectively achieved if people understand why and the possible consequences for them or society rather than the punishment for failing to conform.  Perhaps the roads would be safer in the future if we instilled in young people a little bit of empathy rather than reinforcing the it’s ok so long as you don’t get caught mentality of their parents?

Indeed, and both more effectively achieved if people understand why and the possible consequences for them or society rather than the punishment for failing to conform.

That was my point: enforcing rules that serve no purpose just invites resentment.

enforcing rules that serve no purpose just invites resentment.

Here's a good one. Like many schools, my daughters school strictly enforces uniform rules. This includes not being allowed to remove your blazer whilst on school grounds, unless given explicit permission by a teacher, even in the middle of summer. Also, in winter when it's freezing and pissing down, pupils are not allowed to wear overcoats, shells or fleeces, as they are not uniform, so they have to remove them when in school and carry them around with them all day instead of wearing them. Any contravention of uniform rules results in a detention. Bloody stupid.

You honestly conflate the NFL black lives matter protest with a simple mark of respect to stand up when an adult enters a room?

Christ, some of you lot are throwbacks to the Victorian era. I attended an old fashioned Grammar school and even that didn’t require standing when a teacher entered the room.

I wouldn’t stand now when anybody entered the room. What purpose would or does it serve? If you think it’s a sign of respect I really pity you. It is forced compliance for the sake of power. Or, in other words, utter bollocks. It’s not even remotely comparable to driving sensibly.

You honestly conflate the NFL black lives matter protest with a simple mark of respect to stand up when an adult enters a room?

You honestly think it is a mark of respect for adults? Why should any adult demand respect of anyone and how does standing achieve this? Some things are left in the past for a reason.

My son started school this year and I was genuinely impressed with how things have improved since my day. You know, progress, wherein things change for the better and archaic practices are left by the wayside. That sort of thing.

You honestly conflate the NFL black lives matter protest with a simple mark of respect to stand up when an adult enters a room?

You honestly conflate respect with grudging compliance? Top tip: it's not 1950.

Remember this is a school that had discipline problems.  Setting a hardf line as this head has done is one well proven way of setting a new standard of behaviour and its very siminlar tothe zero tolerance approach.

Yes the rules seem petty but they are their for good reason.  To promote a better standard of discipline in school.  A reason known to work and adopted by many successful headteachers.

Full disclosure. I'm another teacher on the thread.

Really don't want to get drawn in to this, but some of the comments here are unbelievable and demonstrate totally (assuming that some of you posting here have kids) why there can be behaviour / opposition / defiance issues in schools - as long as you agree that parental influence is an important factor in shaping young people's attitudes.

Anyway, from the Gov.uk website...

Schools don’t have to give parents notice of after-school detentions or tell them why a detention has been given.

Having said that, it's good safeguarding practice to advise home of the detention in advance where possible (note - schools do not require parental permission to detain a student within certain guidelines). For example, our school will not detain students for a same day, no notice detention for longer than 10 minutes but we do run scheduled 1 hour detentions that parents get at least 24 hours notice of.

Some interesting research that shows that a 3 minute detention is as effective as a much longer one as long as it's close in time to the 'offence' and is used to actually address the behaviour rather than just punish it. Meta-cognition and all that.

Yes the rules seem petty but they are their for good reason.  To promote a better standard of discipline in school.

Petty rules, by definition, have no good reason. If a school wishes to improve behaviour then it should do it through rules that serve a purpose. Anything else is a fig leaf.

Petty rules, by definition, have no good reason. If a school wishes to improve behaviour then it should do it through rules that serve a purpose. Anything else is a fig leaf.

Problem is (as this thread shows) that understanding of that purpose is pretty subjective.

Not going to say whether I agree with the standing up thing or not, but I totally understand it's actual purpose (and definite positive impact) in some schools - all depends on context.

Pupils to stand when a teacher enters the classroom

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Petty rules, by definition, have no good reason. If a school wishes to improve behaviour then it should do it through rules that serve a purpose. Anything else is a fig leaf.

And...

So, you've raised a few million quid to open a free school in your town. What would your rules/expectations/sanctions be?

And…

So, you’ve raised a few million quid to open a free school in your town. What would your rules/expectations be?

Leaving aside the abomination that is free schools...

In the first instance I would ask the pupils. What do you think they would say?

Ignoring your dodging of the question, I know pretty much what they'd say (since it's something that pretty much every teacher does every year with every new class). I also know you wouldn't get any useful consensus (at least not without guiding the conversation) since students, like all people, have different opinions on stuff. So, you might get responses ranging from "Let us do what we want" to "We need to be told exactly what to do and how to do it so everything's fair".

At my car  crash of a comprehensive school we had to do the 'stand up when a teacher / year head / headmaster ' enters  the room thing.

Alot of our class rooms had  back doors ,that entered other classrooms. One day the deputy head enterd the class I was in this way. I was working away , head down and concentrating and failed to notice him enter, then everyone stand to attention.

The nasty spiteful bully grabbed my arm and yanked me out of my chair, forcing it to fall  backwards and as he hauled me to my feet  screamed in my face " You know  your supposed to stand when a teacher enters the room"

He left bruises on my arm and me in tears . Which in this school  left you open for more bullying .  The adult thing to do would have been to stand next to my desk , let me catch a whiff of cheap cigarettes and coffee that most teachers seemd to carry around with them in 80's and politly clear his throat . But nope, 6ft 2" and 16st of rage  was targeted on me personally that morning .hope hes dead now.

Really don’t want to get drawn in to this, but some of the comments here are unbelievable and demonstrate totally (assuming that some of you posting here have kids) why there can be behaviour / opposition / defiance issues in schools

Indeed, I also really enjoy any posts that start with "when I was at school"

You honestly conflate the NFL black lives matter protest with a simple mark of respect to stand up when an adult enters a room?

Do you stand up when an adult enters the room?

<p>We used to stand until invited to sit down by our teachers, never thought anything of it, still don't. About same level as holding doors open for people I guess.</p><p></p><p>Courtesy is not the same as respect. </p>

Do you stand up when an adult enters the room?

In most equivalent situations yes.  I don't stand every time my wife comes into the room of an evening, but say I went to meet a client to give a presentation at his offices, was shown into the meeting room by the receptionist and was waiting for the attendees to arrive. When someone comes in then, yes I would stand to greet them. Would you just sit there? It's a respect thing, not subservience or archaic victorian nature, it's courtesy that is sadly lacking at my kids school. Maybe I should sit there until the newcomer has earned my respect.......

Yes absolutely there are bigger issues they have to (and are) dealing with as well but when a school is plummeting in its standards you have to go hard.

@stm - that's just sadism, has nothing to do with the standing or not. No place for that sort of bullying, and I wouldn't tolerate it from a teacher now either.

There seems to be an assumption that the teachers at the school have all become victorian floggers overnight, of course they haven't. If a kid hasn't got his tie done up, where in the past it would probably be let ride, now it'll be requested that it is done up. If the kid kicks off, they'll be sanctioned appropriately - but frankly the kid that kicks off over that sort of thing will likely also be the one disrupting lessons with their behaviour. It might be a bit like getting Capone for tax evasion, but the trouble makers will be causing trouble whatever.

Re the OP; argumentative git that i am I went and looked up policy on this and the 3 way agreement all new pupils and parents sign on joining the school includes permission for the school to issue detentions for a short period after school without prior notification. I've pointed this out to the 'how dare they hold my child back without my permission' crew on the FB page and I shall be attending parent's evening in disguise from now on, given the responses. Sod em, someone needs to back our hard pressed teachers up and I'm taking a stand.

When someone comes in then, yes I would stand to greet them. Would you just sit there? It’s a respect thing, not subservience or archaic victorian nature, it’s courtesy that is sadly lacking at my kids school.

we’re never going to agree here, but if you can’t see the difference between a formal meeting where (like it or not) one still has the option to stand and forcing people to stand or suffer consequences for failure to do so, then I don’t know what to say.

Different opinions and all that. Forcing people to conform is never the best option and breeds resentment not respect.

This still backs my theory that the biggest problem with education at the moment is parents.

I agree that we aren't going to agree, that's for sure. I'm also not surprised at the split on here between the 'school's rules, live with it' and 'stupid rules should be ignored' groups; no different to what i see on the infernal FB page.

But

forcing people to stand or suffer consequences

is not REALLY what's happening here is it? Pupils are being asked to stand because it is a mark of respect / politeness for a teacher or other adult entering the room. If someone forgot, or wasn't paying attention, or whatever I very much doubt they'd be punished directly for it. That would come if they refuse subsequently, same as it would for directly disobeying any other reasonable request from a teacher.and if you can't see that I also don't know what to say.

This still backs my theory that the biggest problem with education at the moment is parents.

Yes and no. There's a lot wrong at the school, that the new head is trying to fix. It's not all the parents fault. But one thing I'm sure of is that it's a 3-way deal between school, pupils and parents and if any part of that doesn't meet their obligations the other two suffer.

What if we call it courtesy rather than respect. If I meet one if my mates I will stand up when they arrive to shake their hand. Do you let your kids start their dinner before everyone has theirs too?

Some may see stuff like this as pointless, however most is designed to make people actually thoughtful towards others.

There are many reasons a school might pick a small seemingly silly thing to focus on.

Lots of schools are going through a tough time, lack of support staff funding and a tangible "couldn't give a ****" attitude to education from some pupils and parents.

These little things are a way to start to get the whole school pulling together. Everyone acting the same way.

We have a real issue at my school. It should be quiet but we've been in the papers on BBC a few times lately, there's been assaults on staff and pupils, a police presence in corridors and knives found on pupils. When parents don't gaf how a does a school (given that stats say only influence 20% of the pupils life) turn it round? What seem silly and inconsequential might well be the baby steps to trying to build a better school community.

I'll happily take any of you into my classroom so you can see how it has changed since you were at school both from the pressure on kids and behaviour but as always it's easier to be outside the tent pissing in.  In a world where opinions count and experience and experts are ridiculed it's he who shouts loudest is correct.

Pupils are being asked to stand because it is a mark of respect / politeness for a teacher or other adult entering the room.

I went to a boarding school with some fairly strict rules - can't say it did me any harm.

Yes we had to stand when a teacher entered the classroom, it soon just became an automatic thing. I can't say I stood in respect for the teacher but I guess it does emphasize a difference between pupil and teacher which isn't a bad thing.

Our detentions were an hour and we had to complete a set number of lines in that time (else we'd be back the next day), was a ballache but didn't scar me for life and was sufficient punishment I generally tried to avoid it and stick to the rules (even the ones I didn't really approve of).

Given I still led protests against the quality of the school food and some other stuff (even managed a week's suspension) I think I'd have been a bit of a nightmare to control in a more relaxed atmosphere and ultimately it would have been me that suffered as I wouldn't have got the same education

Our detention procedure was a slip of paper you had to take home for parents to sign, different colour slips for more serious offences. White - 30min with teacher, blue - 60min with teacher, yellow 60min with head of year, pink - 60min with headmaster! If you got a pink you’d end up on report too…

White & blue were dished out for fun and I used to just forge mums signature so the rents never knew – was still always home way before them anyway! Yellow or pink were followed up with a phone call home so I’d end up grounded too!! Double bubble!

tbh i never really minded DT's. you got to just do your homework which id have to find time for anyway, was often a bonus having the teacher there to help.

The problem with after school detentions is the differing effect it has on kids:

Live close to the school and it means being 30 minutes late getting home.

Live out of town and it means a mile and half walk into town down badly lit roads to wait for an hour for a bus you have to pay for (bus passes are specific to the school bus) so you’re probably looking at being two hours late.

Detentions should kept to lunch times and breaks to level the effect it has on the pupils.

To put some of the pointless school rules into perspective.

at work like at school we have a dress code for the office and a more strict one for client visits. If this is not respected you lose your job it’s not a 30 min detention.

when new people enter the meeting room or work area we stand up to meet them. I don’t see this as some archaic horror that crushes my will to live.

Pretty much the same basic rules we had at school I can see in most of the workplaces I have been in possibly more so outside of the UK (particularly India and the ME). These basic niceties can make a huge difference to career advancement.

there will always be rules that seem pointless and their will always be some **** on a power trip. If you cannot accept this and move on with life you end up holding yourself back.

say I went to meet a client to give a presentation at his offices, was shown into the meeting room by the receptionist and was waiting for the attendees to arrive. When someone comes in then, yes I would stand to greet them. Would you just sit there?

That's a completely different scenario. You also want them to give you money.

Do you stand up when a colleague walks into the office on a morning?

WTF do these teachers think they are?

Maybe if they got their shit together they wouldn't feel the need to control groups of children in this manner, but as they all work 80 hour weeks, every week, I guess they need something, apart from 4 months off a year.

Sod em, someone needs to back our hard pressed teachers up and I’m taking a stand.

Good for you.  If only more people would do this.

Oh look Gobuchul has joined the thread; HOUSE!

WTF do these teachers think they are?

They are just the people who sign your kids passport application, nothing more than that.

Pffft.

is not REALLY what’s happening here is it? Pupils are being asked to stand because it is a mark of respect / politeness for a teacher or other adult entering the room. If someone forgot, or wasn’t paying attention, or whatever I very much doubt they’d be punished directly for it. That would come if they refuse subsequently, same as it would for directly disobeying any other reasonable request from a <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">teacher.and</span>if you can’t see that I also don’t know what to say.

I conpletely agree with obeying a reasonable request. As to is that what’s happening regarding not standing, I don’t know, it’s not happening at my sons school. If there aren’t consequences it’s even more pointless. Detentions are a good idea, Standing just seems a bit bloody weird to me.

at work like at school we have a dress code for the office and a more strict one for client visits. If this is not respected you lose your job it’s not a 30 min detention.

when new people enter the meeting room or work area we stand up to meet them. I don’t see this as some archaic horror that crushes my will to live.

Where do you work, North Korea?

I seriously cannot understand the negativity on this thread. WTF is wrong with instilling a bit of politeness and understanding of rules and how to follow them??

This school sounds like it has issues, that are trying to be fixed. Giving it a new baseline is a good thing.

Is there a reason for standing when a teacher enters? Yes, its a lesson. There is a rule and you follow it. We do not get to only follows Laws (rules) which we agree with (although watching a lot of drivers you would think they are optional!), so teaching kids this at an early age makes it become ingrained.

Uniforms? Most people (not many on STW by the sounds of it) work in an environment where you have to wear a uniform and thats it, end of, again why not teach this earlier in life with a simple where the uniform stated.

Are detentions a good thing or bad thing? Well as in THIS case there is an agreement in place which says no prior notice then guess what parents... suck it up. You agreed, end of.

@Richie

The problem with after school detentions is the differing effect it has on kids:

Live close to the school and it means being 30 minutes late getting home.

Live out of town and it means a mile and half walk into town down badly lit roads to wait for an hour for a bus you have to pay for (bus passes are specific to the school bus) so you’re probably looking at being two hours late.

Detentions should kept to lunch times and breaks to level the effect it has on the pupils.

This is called consequences. Every action has them and some are good, some not so good. I wonder if there is a lesson in this???

This is called consequences. Every action has them and some are good, some not so good. I wonder if there is a lesson in this???

The point is that the same punishment has significantly different consequences to different pupils.  I wasn’t arguing for no punishments, just for punishments which affect those being punished equally

This is called consequences. Every action has them and some are good, some not so good. I wonder if there is a lesson in this???

It it would appear you missed the lesson where it was explained that there is never a need for more than one question mark. 😉

I seriously cannot understand the negativity on this thread. WTF is wrong with instilling a bit of politeness and understanding of rules and how to follow them??

There's a massive difference between politeness and deference. I've taught my kids to be polite by telling them everyone deserves respect no matter who they are and they should treat others how they wish to be treated themselves. I've also taught them to always question authority (within reason) if it appears that that authority is being misused. If a rule is to be followed, then there needs to be a good reason for it, and those subjected to them should understand what those reasons are. Some of the rules my kids are asked to follow at school seem to have very little justification and appear to be there just to exercise control and enforce conformity. I don't really see how that helps my kids in either their education or wider development. Is it too much to ask that my kids should enjoy school, not live in fear of it?

Where do you work, North Korea?

List of places I have been based in to work.. UK, France, Italy, Australia, UAE, Israel, USA other’s were just meetings and visits.

The most formal places where everyone stands to greet would be the US and ME. Least formal would be UK or France. Believe it or not we would have a basic cultural induction before going to some places.

by and large the way we act in the UK is considered rude by many cultures. We rush around and do not do all the respectful tributes. It works fine as long as you only need to interact with people from the UK who also don’t care about old conventions.