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Keen to hear of any experiences with Seat Leons and the DSG gearbox.
Thanks in advance.
Not sure about Leons..but had DSG boxes on both a Touareg and a Passat Sport ..and loved them !
Dsg is ace.
I own a Leon with the 7sp DSG and think it's great.
Coming from a traditional torque converter auto, the only downsides are the slight snatchiness when trying to creep forwards/backwards (ie. when parking). There can also be a slight delay when pulling away from a standing start. Remeber the DSG is an automated manual (so still has a clutch, etc but the car does all the work).
Plus side - great economy, engine braking down hills and the gear changes are pretty much seamless and instant.
I hate, hate, HATE the DSG box. The bloody delays especially did my head in. So much so I preferred driving our 10 yr old Mazda over the A6 3.0tdi V6 with DSG. Gone back to manual with my new car.
Also agree with the snappy nature of them - caused me (in part - I was to blame for treating it like a manual) to drive into the side of another car at low speed in a car park a few weeks after I got it.
Yak, kak, naff.
I’ve driven a few, as well as the Golf, and I’ve been very impressed with them as far as driving is concerned, in some undefinable way I prefer the Leon to the Golf, the DSG ‘box is great if you’ve got an iffy left knee where a heavy clutch can become tiresome, and having full LED lighting is also rather nice to have, few other cars in that class have it.
I’d be perfectly happy to have one.
DSG is fantastic in every car I’ve tried it in
And as for the car itself, the Leon is basically a VW Golf or Audi A3. Mechanically identical, just a different lid. I suspect it might not be put together with quite the same precision though so build quality might be a problem long term.
Edit: but you'll get far more toys with a Leon £ for £ so worth bearing that in mind.
And as for the car itself, the Leon is basically a VW Golf or Audi A3. Mechanically identical, just a different lid. I suspect it might not be put together with quite the same precision though so build quality might be a problem long term.
I wouldn’t worry, VW Groups quality control is very good, the difference between VW Audi, Seat and Skoda can sometimes be materials - you might get a nice faux leather effect dash on an Audi, soft plastic on a VW and harder plastics on Skoda and Seat for example but they’ll be screwed together equally as well, often though it’s just a price point for the sake of pigeon holing it in the market.
The important bits like the engine and gearbox are the same, made in the same factory and are only designated by brand when they stick the plastic lid on.
It took me a while to warm to the DSG box in my wife's Golf.. same issues as johndoh above, however I think it was more the fault of the auto hold feature on the handbrake (never hit anything though!). Thankfully you can turn that off (still prefer a proper manual handbrake though)
It can also take some getting used to in combination with the engine auto stop. You pause briefly at a junction, and just as you go to put your foot down, the car decides to kill the engine. Again, easy to turn off, but probably prefer my manual where it won't cut off if your foot is on the clutch.
Jeff
I collect my Cupra 300 in 2 months, I’ve ordered a manual as I can’t stand the DSG option. It’s jumpy when starting and as has been said above unpredictable at parking speeds.
and just as you go to put your foot down, the car decides to kill the engine.
A question of how much pressure you put on the brake pedal - a little is enough to hold it to a stop and keep the engine running, more stops the engine. If the engine stops, ease up a little on the pedal and it will start again.
TL;DR - softly, softly, does it.
I have a DSG box on a torque heavy 3.0 A6 and it's fantastic.
A little juddery as you are stopping but other than that ace. So smooth and changes are nearly imperceptible even when pushing on.
Go Manual. you won't regret it. I'm with Jondoh on this one. Nasty DSG, expensive, less fuel efficient in the real world, whatever the stats say.
However, VAG is making it difficult to buy their more powerful cars without DSG especially if you want 4wd. They maintain there is little demand, but if they don't provide the choice it is a self fulfilling prophesy.
I wanted a petrol 4wd car with reasonable power and a manual gearbox-only really two VAG options on sale at the moment 🙂
Mk3 Leon estate owner here and well happy with my purchase but it has to go as its to low to get up some Farm tracks where I visit.
2.0 Diesel 150 bhp engine. Fully loaded it does 60 mpg on a motorway run. Quite nippy when needed and easy enough to park.
Mechanically identical, just a different lid.
No they're not. Very similar and share a huge amount of parts but not identical.
No they're not. Very similar and share a huge amount of parts but not identical.
Could you provide any examples of this?
Could you provide any examples of this?
Subjectivity yes. Seat Leon ride comfort I've found is slightly less refined than a VW Golf or Audi A3....but then a think this is partially deliberate and partially due to where they make compromises to fit each brand's budget
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MQB_platform
There you go plumslikerock
Have a cuppa 290 with day and love it. The manuals suffer from slipping clutches and probably the only week point about the manual. Although this can be upgraded.
I've had it a couple of times with the dsg in flappy paddle mode where I've downshifted too quick coming to a stop and pressed the accelerator and nothing happens for a second and it all just jumps too life. Somebody wrote a really good article about it. I'll try and find it and post a link to it when I do.
Wouldn't go back to a manual now. And neither would the missus.
Always been a manual car fan, I hate traditional autos with a passion! I was very wary of DSG and DCT boxes when they came out, but having driven modern iterations of these boxes, I wouldn’t hesitate to spec one on a new car if I was in that position!
My mate has a 14 plate Leon FR tdi estate, 184bhp version that’s been specced up to all but identical to the Cupra. He was hesitant about buying it because of the DSG box, but the price they were offering it at with the spec, and the fact there wa no manuals going spare at the time, he bought it. He’s had it 12 months now and after 20yrs of driving manuals, he says there’s no way he’d go back!
Got taken home from the pub the other week by a friend of a mutual friend, she’s got a 67 plate Mk7.5 Golf R with the new 7spd DSG box in it... Me likey 😛
DSG box owner.
I am not an evangelist for it but it is in many respects a very very good gearbox.
I had a similar dilemma 18 months ago and got a similar very polar set of views.
Conscious of that here's what I reckon are the best and worst bits about it after about 30000 miles in just over 18 months....
This is based on a 6speed wet clutch DSG which is what has been in the 2l diesels and petrols. It's a 2012 one (but on latest update) so newer versions may now exist.
- it's smooth and quick through the box in normal non congested traffic - I do a fair bit of driving late at night or early in the morning and it's brilliant for this and makes for a relaxing drive.
[b]roundabouts and junctions, the source of many hater comments...[/b]
- it's take up from roundabouts and junctions is really very good and its very much push the throttle and forget BUT you have to play it's game on the approach/launch - it's easy to do but you have to be prepared to tweak your driving technique. It's worth noting that a lot of the complaints I read on here before I bought mine were about the car bogging down because it's holding second as you slow down and then going "oh you want first". There are ways to work around that particular behaviour. It took me a few days to get my head around the issue and about 2-3 months of driving it day in day out to really get the knack of the various different ways to stop it bogging down and to stop thinking about it and it to be second nature.
[b]Manual mode[/b]
- the box will cope with any type of driving you throw at it
BUT I'm going to disagree with a few on here and say there are definitely some circumstances where manual mode is useful. The gearbox, like all autos, is ultimately reactive not proactive and it tends to err towards shifting up for economy. So my feeling is letting the computer do the bulk of the work is right but human intervention at the right moment can be beneficial to smooth progress. E.g....
1) Planned overtakes where you want a 2 gear drop (e.g. 6th to 4th) is one example. As I understand it the even numbered gears are on one shaft/clutch and the odds on another so it is noticeably slower to drop two cogs than one. So pop the stick over,click, click, go when safe, pop the stick back.
2) It can also be handy in the mountains / big hills too, to give better pull out of awkward corners and avoid mid corner gear changes and also to set up a heavily laden car to not lose speed at the bottom of a gradient. We used manual a fair bit in Germany last year in the more rural / steeper hilly bits of the Black Forest (auto everywhere else). It put a stop to a lot of unnecessary up and down shifting by the box e.g. shifting up two gears on short 100m straights between tight corners and then shifting back down two at the next corner.
Having said that I probably use it in manual at most once or twice a month.
The car's just been serviced and I think the gearbox map has been updated as it seems slightly less keen to shift up early now and more keen to shift down. So new ones might negate some of my comments above.
[B]Reversing and/or creeping forward uphill[\b]
There's a bit of a knack to this as the DSG can grab a bit and move off can come with a bit of a jerk. Again it's easy to deal with but a little adaptation to get the best from the DSG characteristics is beneficial.
E.g. Using the auto-hold and/or handbrake allows a more gentle roll off as they release at the correct torque to move the car.
Also getting those last few inches into the car park space where in a manual you could just feather the clutch it can be better to pull forward a bit once perfectly aligned then get a little momentum before feathering the car to a halt.
Having said that given some of the reversing I see in the car park by my work I'd say it is still smoother than at least 50% of drivers are with their clutch anyway!
A manual (if you genuinely have the ability to really ballet dance on the clutch) is still more precise/subtle.
[b]heavy traffic[/b]
This is one of the main reasons I went for the DSG. I think it works well but possibly not as good as a torque converter type box would.
In summary...
To get the best from it requires some minor changes to driving style.
I would not have one without also getting the electronic parking / hand brake (auto-hold I could love without if I had to).
Would I have another?
If I bought another large sized/lazy engined VAG group car and was still doing my current type of driving then high chance it would be DSG. The only thing is Mrs g-d really does not like it (she only drives it occasionally and has never really liked it - she drives it well but simply doesn't like it).
If I was having a "drivers car" (e.g. Golf GTI or R) or smaller engined turbo petrol I'd be more likely to have a manual. No particular logic to that more a heart than head thing. I still driving a manual and that touch of extra involvement they bring.
Got taken home from the pub the other week by a friend of a mutual friend, she’s got a 67 plate Mk7.5 Golf R with the new 7spd DSG box in it... Me likey
Slight deviation from the topic, the Golf R is very desirable to thieves and often stolen to order. Hopefully they have a tracker on the car? If not recommend they get one ASAP. I know someone who had two Golf Rs taken. Think they have a GTD now!
I'm going to disagree with a few on here and say there are definitely some circumstances where manual mode is useful.
Yes - as you said - some windy roads, getting ready for overtaking, and also for towing sometimes - but still very rarely. I'd use sport mode more for towing but my engine is a PD one and hence rather noisy at the sort of revs sport mode ends up with.
With regards roundabouts and hesitation - this happens when you roll forwards off throttle and the car goes into 2nd, then when you then push down and it goes back into 1st. This *should* be quick, since the first shaft should still be in 1st and not go to 3rd at such low speeds.. but perhaps if you were going fast enough it'd pre-emptively go for third then end up back in 1st. But you get to anticipate it, and I don't even think about it any more.
Biggest difference for me between this and a traditional auto is that you have to treat the throttle as you would in a manual i.e. gently at low speeds. Trad autos are always really smooth, but in the DSG because the engine's directly connected to the wheels you can still jerk the car around if you are clumsy same as in a manual.
Would I have another? I wouldn't even consider a manual again unless I had no choice. The feeling of powering up through the gears with instant shifts and no break in power is brilliant.
I've done over 50K miles in my DSG Alltrack now, and I've never, ever found it 'jumpy' or snatchy, and I can't really imagine what people who say it is are talking about.
I'd even consider it on a GTI, depending on where I lived/how I intended to use it.
In an everyday car I'd certainly go for DSG every time.
Edit: I never use 'Manual' but frequently pop it into 'Sport' for better drive out of roundabouts, and on twisty lanes where I want the car to hold a lower gear for longer.
Oh and if anyone's bothered by jerkiness you could ask for a 'clutch adaptation' at your dealer/specialist. The clutches adapt to wear over time but sometimes this doesn't happen perfectly so there's a reset procedure. Or if anyone's near South Wales I'll do it for you for a biscuit. This should cure any snatchiness.
I was an auto hater, but had to buy a Passat DSG due to a change in work location .. big queues in off the motorway were doing my clutch leg in.
Love it. Agree its a bit snatchy at times at very low creeping speeds but you get used to it.
I had an older Leon Cupra too (manual, 1.8 turbo, 180bhp) - was a great car, though it did eat coil packs for a hobby. It was considered 'better' than the Golf equivalent at the time as the GTi wasn't terribly hot then.
Oh and if anyone's bothered by jerkiness you could ask for a 'clutch adaptation' at your dealer/specialist. The clutches adapt to wear over time but sometimes this doesn't happen perfectly so there's a reset procedure.
Useful info, thanks!
I collect my Cupra 300 in 2 months, I’ve ordered a manual
I have the same. But mainly because mine is a 2 year lease and I wasn't going to shell out another £1300 over that period.
Though my commute is almost all motorway, it's the M6/M62 so is stop/start for 40 miles. I dd think I might have regretted not going for a two pedal car but so far the light clutch means I my knees are holding uo just fine.
The Cupra is great fun BTW. A car where "no gap is too small" (to quote my father).
Dorset_Knob - Member
I've done over 50K miles in my DSG Alltrack now, and I've never, ever found it 'jumpy' or snatchy, and I can't really imagine what people who say it is are talking about.
I drove a DSG A4 which was snatchy at low speed and that was brand spankers.
What I mean by 'snatchy' is it feels like there's nothing nothing TOO MUCH. Very noticeable if you're coming directly from a conventional auto, there the power smoothly comes up from zero. This feels like it starts at zero then jumps to 20%.
On the move it was not an issue at all though. Just pulling away.
Hmm. The clutch adaptation improved the pulling away no end on mine, but then it was at what, 90k when I first did it and I only had the car from 46k.
Wonder if it's something that helps on new cars? Maybe ask a dealer to do it if it's under warranty? It's only a 10 minute job.
However, VAG is making it difficult to buy their more powerful cars without DSG especially if you want 4wd. They maintain there is little demand, but if they don't provide the choice it is a self fulfilling prophesy.
I wanted a petrol 4wd car with reasonable power and a manual gearbox-only really two VAG options on sale at the moment
A lot of Audi's have now ditched the DSG and moved to the 8 speed torque convertors that BMW, Jag etc.
Personally, I'd be really tempted especially for a daily driver. I've driven a few DSG cars and really liked them - I never noticed any jerkiness pulling off etc. I'm tempted by a Golf GTE as my next company car mainly because of the autobox.
What I mean by 'snatchy' is it feels like there's nothing nothing TOO MUCH. Very noticeable if you're coming directly from a conventional auto, there the power smoothly comes up from zero. This feels like it starts at zero then jumps to 20%.
Yep, totally agree with this as I had a conventional auto before my DSG.
while all you Leon drivers are here i have a question for you.
i dont drive but my old man has a diesel leon, i guess its one or 2 models back about 6-10 years old, i noticed an odd noise while travelling as a passenger as what can only be described as the sound of one of those musical christmas cards being opened a little electronic tune being played?! now either it is the sound of the turbo spinning up and down and ‘chirping’ or the previous owner has hidden a half open musical card in the boot or behind the seats?? it could be a wheel bearing but i couldn’t pin the noise down to a speed/gear/or cornering as it was quite random. he couldn’t hear it as it’s very high pitched.
just wondered if all diesel leon’s made a funny noise or just his?
On the move it was not an issue at all though. Just pulling away.
Interesting. Were you using Auto Hold? I have that on all the time, and someone up there ^^ said that helps smooth things out. I just have it on cos it's less work in traffic jams.
the previous owner has hidden a half open musical card in the boot or behind the seats??
Lol, that seems the most likely culprit 🙂
Some turbos seem to whistle more than others (don't think they play a tune though!).
On a different practical note. Think about where you drive. A friend had the Cupra and it is very low to the ground. We even hired a standard non-sporty Leon in Majorca a few years ago and was bottoming out on some rough farm track type roads.
i have a dsg box in a golf gti mk.7. it's good, but does take a while to get used to, and you do have to play the dsg's game. i find i switch in to sport mode approaching roundabouts or junctions sometimes, just to get a bit of engine braking, and have the car ready to go if traffic allows me to accelerate away. once i'm away unless i'm really 'on it' i just knock the stick again to flick it back in to 'drive' and it goes back in to 'trickle about mode'. i find sport mode on the box holds the gear for too long for my tastes so will very often use the paddles if i'm giving it some.
it is marginally more difficult to park accurately.
i don't find it snatchy or jerky at all, in fact it's very smooth typically, unless you're in 6th ( say ), and hit the kick down when the speed of the car dictates 4th, and it takes longer to shift because it has to go through the other box and back, so you get a delay of ~1s and then 'bang' it goes.
love the car for it's ability to be a bit of a terrier, but also just take me home from the airport after a long day.
would i buy another with dsg? for use with the adaptive cruise, yes. for other times, not if i had to spend more to get it. it wouldn't put me off a car though.
DSG is fantastic, the gear changes are unbelievably smooth. It has saved my left knee, which was becoming increasingly painful and rickety as traffic levels increased and my 35 minute commute became 60 to 90 minutes each way.
It is jerky when parking but you can turn off the Auto-Hold and use the brake to allow the car to move slowly on tickover. It is also surprisingly good in snow; just engage gear, touch the throttle and it will move away without wheel spin, you can then use the throttle again to build up speed once the car is moving.