Scottish winter adventure?

once followed a pair up a south face in the Andes, a steep, icy, thing, who were having an ongoing argument about how safe the other's basic practices were 

Don't tell me..... Did one of them have a Swiss army knife readily accessible in the top pocket of his rucksack 😉

Too niche?

Posted by: thegeneralist

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Too niche?

Nope, makes perfect sense 👍

From what you've said on this thread I think you need to revisit the principles behind safe use of a rope on mountaineering terrain.

I knew this was coming.

But this is the whole point of this tangential discussion.

Please take it in the way it was offered, as a piece of well intentioned, non judgemental advice. 

Never to stop learning is a good life goal.

I do think though that there could be a benefit to wearing the rope, as said above, so that you can deploy a belay/some gear if conditions underfoot deteriorate. But back to the original proposal, this is an extreme edge case given what is being mooted.  It would probably be one of those situations where you make a call on the spot.

benefit to wearing the rope, as said above, so that you can deploy a belay/some gear if conditions underfoot deteriorate. 

If you want to be able to switch from unroped to roped climbing quickly then put on harness and rack at the bottom of the corrie and put the rope over the top of your bag so it's accessible. If you want, one of you can tie in, feed the rope into their bag and just leave an end poking out so the other can tie in to it.

If your intention for the route itself is to move together placing gear and the approach slopes are low consequence then there probably isn't much risk to roping up at the bottom.

If you want to be able to switch from unroped to roped climbing quickly then put on harness and rack at the bottom of the corrie 

I read this as:

If you want to be able to switch from unroped to roped climbing quickly then put harness and rack at the bottom of the corrie

If you want to be able to switch from unroped to roped climbing quickly then put harness and rack at the bottom of the corrie

We left the quick draws in the car one day a few seasons back. There were some black looks exchanged before we worked out that we had enough other kit to cobble together 8 draws and do our intended route.

Posted by: Spin

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The point I am making is not an academic one, it's an incredibly important, practical point for anyone climbing on the kind of terrain in question.

There are comments on this thread which suggest some people believe there is a realistic chance of one climber stopping another in a roped slide on grade I terrain with no protection in place.

I've come in heavy on this because that is a false and potentially fatal belief. Roping up but not placing gear has lead to avoidable deaths and serious injuries in the past and will do so again. I really can't emphasize this enough and I'm really keen that this point not be lost in amongst any other noise.

Yeah, agree. 'Academic' was a poor choice of word, I was thinking that the comparison of crevasse and open slope falls doesn't really matter beyond understanding that holding any sort of slip on steep, icy ground is incredibly hard and, like you say, being roped just means you both go. You can go endlessly into the whole alpine style pros and cons, but the bottom line is, like you say, your chances of holding a slide on an iced-up slope without being anchored aren't great. It's like those horrible final pitches you get on Scottish gullies where there's a cornice above you and an easy snow apron with absolutely no protection.

But basically, yeah, if you're going to rope up and move together on 'easy' ground, be aware that you have very limited security from the rope unless there's some sort of anchor/protection and there's a good chance that you won't be able to hold any unexpected slip and you'll both be off. 

Posted by: thegeneralist

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Don't tell me..... Did one of them have a Swiss army knife readily accessible in the top pocket of his rucksack

 

Too niche?

Very droll 🙂 ... they were, I think, a Swiss guy and an American and the latter didn't think much of the former's anchors. I think they abbed off about halfway up a six-pitch route in the end, but they were both furious with each other, lots of shouting and swearing. It was quite alarming tbh. I know you can get an idea of someone's level of experience and basic competence from a quick chat, but it was a bit of an object lesson in being careful about who you climb with. 

This is my issue as I currently have no one to climb with as my layabout* nephew didn't get the grades to get into Cardiff (however his second choice was Bangor so he has clearly won). The thought of trying to secure a regular partner fills me with trepidation for a variety of reasons.

*not really

Posted by: thegeneralist

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If your nephew is thinking uni at any point, all the national mountain centres offer free courses with the uni's still. Two of mine had a week at Glenmore Lodge on winter safety course for free.

 

What! Tell me more.....

 

Speak to the Uni mountaineering club - they may / may not have places allocated to them, they just need to decide who to send. Most send 2-3 so that they have a few trip leaders. Mine went to go as they both had pretty extensive hillwalking experience, and so were the freshers of choice for their uni. All the Scottish Uni's get places with Glenmore - and one of my lads had the 3 days paid and then was offered to be a guinea pig for some Winter ML aspirants so stayed another two days and hitched home afterwards...

https://www.mountaineering.scot/safety-and-skills/courses-and-events/our-courses/smart-weekend