Which is what the majority of people want in their Politicians, someone steady, with some standing, who isnt going to rock the boat too much, just make a few changes for the better, repeal any bad Laws, dont spend too much money, and dont tax us too much.
And will be acceptable to the Scottish Greens, unlike Humza Yousaf and Kate Forbes. Pragmatic choice.
London man Nick Robinson was given a slot on Reporting Scotland
Be glad that the process was calm enough that they didn't send Lyse Doucet or Kate Adie (long retired, I know)
Which is what the majority of people want in their Politicians, someone steady, with some standing, who isnt going to rock the boat too much, just make a few changes for the better, repeal any bad Laws, dont spend too much money, and dont tax us too much.
When things are going well, it would make sense, but with things going downhill just now, is it going to help them in upcoming elections with all the talk of 'continuity candidate', Swinney has been around for a long time and has been through resignations, votes of no confidence and intrinsically linked to the old SNP brigade like Salmond, Sturgeon, Ewing's, etc, it almost feels like the SNP are bereft of ideas or leadership potential, even Forbes just not going for it feels like she's just not wanting to risk failure, rather just wait for Swinney to fail and take over then.
Only good thing is at least it stops the Stephen Flynn rumours, never thought i'd miss Blackford, i know he was lightweight in some aspects, but he knew the game well and could talk well.
"Lyse Doucet or Kate Adie" Either one would have been better
Interesting contrast between this thread where Humza is seen as too boat-rocking and the Labour thread where Starmer is seen as too timid!
I wouldnt say too boat rockng but when he tipped the boat over he fell out
Viewed from my little corner of the country, I wonder if Yousaf has (accidentally) played a blinder. With a couple of years to the 2026 elections, the SNP might be able to distance itself from the failures of DRS, HPMA and mandatory ASHPs and even get some spades in the ground on the A9 and A96. All of these failures could be laid at the feet of the Scottish Greens. 😂
If they can do that and start work on a new Belford Hospital and work on the A82 between Fort William and Inverness, both projects in Kate Forbes constituency I would be very happy and extremely surprised
Belford and a whole bunch of other major nhs projects were binned recently as well as a massive reduction in social housing (2/3rd cut or thereabouts) so I wouldn’t expect anything for a few years (and the repercussions of those cancellations will soon start hitting the economy)
Sorry Munkyboy Should have said I live in Fort William there's a touch of cynicism in my post people have been waiting on the new Belford since my son was born (in the Belford)34 years ago
The most recent budget has examples of delaying capital projects like the new small ferries as there was no cash. Save X£££ by deferring the start until another financial year. I would be delighted if they started tendering for dialling the A9 etc. won't hold my breath for the next 2 or 3 years though.
"Our modelling indicates that our resource spending requirements could exceed our central funding projections by 2% (£1 billion) in 2024- 25 rising to 4% (£1.9 billion) in 2027-28."
I would be delighted if they started tendering for dialling the A9 etc.
A great weekend for you then. Tenders for Tomatin-Moy are already being appraised.
That is good news. Three years after they failed to get a. acceptable contract in 2021. If the new schedule is met it will have taken over 20 years.
So John Swinney as the lame duck/caretaker First Minister and SNP Leader up to the next election campaign, and then handing over to Kate Forbes who gets to warm up as Deputy First Minister? Or does having Forbes inside the tent mean that she is under greater control?
Neither one is very inspiring.
Neither one is very inspiring.
Perhaps not but still a damn site better than Tory/labour.
Yesterday's man and Sunday's woman...
John Swinney has axed the post of Minister for Independence
“John Swinney has axed the post of Minister for Independence “
Hardly surprising, as a new referendum will be at least 10 years away, and he knows it, and has just admitted it. Apparently we are in for a lot of spending cuts, as inflation has eaten away the money pot.
No magic money tree.
"The SNP faced a similar dilemma last year, when John Swinney warned a lack of extra cash for pay rises, through the Barnett formula used to determine devolved budgets, would mean “deep cuts to public services”."
Typical Torygraph neglecting to mention in it's headline that the pay rises were for junior doctors and teachers
Great...so we've got the same cabinet (plus Forbes, minus Yousef) that was failing on ferries, climate change targets, school standards, crime, health etc.
I actually quite like Swinney, strikes me as a decent and well-meaning man.
But we really need a general and Scottish parliament election to shake things up. Tories and SNP have been in power too long.
But we really need a general and Scottish parliament election to shake things up. Tories and SNP have been in power too long.
who do you think would make up the Scottish cabinet if there was an election in June?
Hardly surprising, as a new referendum will be at least 10 years away, and he knows it, and has just admitted it.
But he also said that independence could be delivered in 5 years...? Is he shoving it on the back burner or not? Or does he mean "if there were a yes vote today, we could Get Indy Done by 2029"?
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/scotland-could-be-independent-in-five-years-swinney-claims
But he also said that independence could be delivered in 5 years…? Is he shoving it on the back burner or not? Or does he mean “if there were a yes vote today, we could Get Indy Done by 2029”?
He is obliged to say it as that's what an SNP leader is supposed to say.
He knows there's not a chance it'll happen (as we all do), but as he'll only be leader till Kate takes over in a year or two he can say what he likes and it doesn't matter.
Or does he mean “if there were a yes vote today, we could Get Indy Done by 2029”?
I thought that was what he was getting at. However, I don't think he has a plan for the first step, or for how to move the pro-indy vote firmly past the 45% or so where it has more-or-less stabilised.
If Nicola couldn't move the indy vote past 45% with Brexit and Boris and her own daily TV spot for months during Covid I would be amazed if it goes up with a UK Labour govt. Especially with Branchform continuing it's glacial progress popping up every so often with reminders of the Murrell years.
The problem with Nicola Sturgeon is that she kept repeating the now is not the time line. I think that had the effect of discouraging many indy supporters (based on mine and friends reactions). An actual indy campaign might move that dial a bit. I don't know. It's certain that there are many indy folk outwith the SNP fold these days, based on their previous couple of leaders.
Some folk think that having Labour in at Westminster will make indy seem less urgent/attractive. That might depend on what sort of Labour government we end up with though. The more SKS paints himself as Tory-lite, the less attractive he might be to the floating voters (but then we're overlapping with the SKS! thread 😂)
I don't think i've seen a serious push for any indy vote in the last few years, yes some push after Brexit as it was an opportunity, but that's past now, and there is a lot of unknowns just now, the economy, instability in the EU, conflicts around the world, failures in Scotland, SNP issues and so on, it's not a good time to be pushing for an Indy vote, 5 years isn't long enough either i think, i think there'll be some big decisions taken by the UK and EU in the next 5 years due to Russia.
There's not much chance of an indy referendum in 5 years and the govt does need to focus on the basics but now is not the time to for pressure groups or individuals to stop talking about independence either. There is no guarantee that the UK will be in a better situation in five years or ten. Look how many torie arrivistes have joined the Labour party under Starmer it bears a certain similarity to UKip's slow domination of the Conservative party. With the world being volatile at the moment and showing no signs of getting less so, you would be daft to rule anything out.
Rishi Sunak has listed Scottish Nationalists as a threat to the UK , that must be the best news the independence movement has had for a long while . It certainly won't help the Scottish Tories
But nationalists are a threat to the UK. They want to break it up
I think that's the very point @gordimhor was making. Many Indy supporters will be encouraged by Sunaks speech.
TBH we don't want to "tear the UK apart" we just want to govern ourselves, that involves leaving the UK it's a necessary step that's all.
However we must be pretty scary if he's likening us to Russia.
Going back up the thread a bit, what's the point of dualling the A9? It's rarely particularly busy and car use will have to drop dramatically over the next 20 years to prevent climate change so why waste money on it when we're apparently struggling so much with health and education? You could invest a fraction of the money in sending goods by rail to Inverness which would dramatically reduce the number of lorries on the A9.
what’s the point of dualling the A9?
The number of deaths per year on what is a fairly lightly trafficked road.
The A9 is a weird inbetween design at present - it sort of needs to go one way or another - more like a motorway with separated carriageways, proper slip roads etc, or more like an A Road with roundabouts at intersections so that traffic is traveling slower at the places where accidents are more likely. At present it has neither of those features - it would be cheaper and easier and just as safe to do the latter but thats not particularly sexy and would feel like a backwards step
I*'m not generally in favour of road building but dualling the A9 is long overdue
Going back up the thread a bit, what’s the point of dualling the A9? It’s rarely particularly busy and car use will have to drop dramatically over the next 20 years to prevent climate change so why waste money on it when we’re apparently struggling so much with health and education? You could invest a fraction of the money in sending goods by rail to Inverness which would dramatically reduce the number of lorries on the A9.
Because its consistently an accident and fatality blackspot. Many voters feel its important either because they want to make the journey 10 minutes quicker or wish to remain alive. The option exists for alternative parties to present the argument that "there's no point, we're all doomed and should spend the money on health to make the misery more bearable" but I don't think any of the big parties are arguing against it?
Goods vehicles make up a chunk of the traffic, but even if you removed them all you wouldn't solve the A9 problem. The bulk of the traffic is cars. You are kidding yourself if you believe car use will drop in the next 20 years - certainly not on routes like the A9.
They 100% should increase the goods by rail, not just to inverness but everywhere they can. However moving goods by rail is not as slick as it appears. The goods need loaded onto wagons (or into containers that get loaded onto wagons) and its not usually possible to do that at "the factory" to they are handled twice. Then they need those wagons to be conglomerated into a train. The whole reason a train is more eco is because one engine moves many wagons. So you need a dozen or more wagons all ready to leave at the same time. It needs access to the rail network and there aren't that many trains between Perth and Inverness so that bit is easy enough. But of course you've loaded the train in the central belt and that train needs to get to the quiet bit of the network, which is congested with passenger traffic. A lot of freight moves at odd times because of this. That might mean a signaller in Aviemore is going to be working extra hours to deal with two freight trains so they can move freely elsewhere on the network. Then the train arrives in Inverness and has to be unloaded. The good are inevitably not going to inverness so need reloaded on road vehicles for the final journey, so get handled again and take longer. Tesco in Aviemore might go to Bathgate to Inverness - having passed the store within 200m and then be unloaded and driven back south. Tesco in Ullapool can probably get its delivery quicker driving from Bathgate than loading, train, unloading and driving from Inverness. Many deliveries will not be a single point-to-point like that either - they will be going round multiple shops/pubs/restaurants or homes/businesses/farms drop shipping as they go. Then we have refrigerated loads, livestock, etc which are possible but even more time sensitive. Trains DO make sense to got from a port to a central hub, or between massive facilities; they could make sense for other uses but changing the way trains would work requires investment too. Since many goods are also not starting/stopping in the central belt it doesn't make sense unless you have logistics set up for some trains, or parts of trains to continue to london, birmingham, hull etc.
Why is the assumption that the solution to "health and education" is just to throw money at the problem?
Economically there will be an advantage to shaving X mins off the inverness-glasgow/edinburgh time too. Its important that Scotland doesn't just become about the central belt. Economically building infrastructure is good for the short term (jobs) and the long term (interconnections drive economies). Economic growth brings more £ to spend of hospitals and schools / teachers and nurses if that is what matters to you.
Inverness railway station is currently closed due to gas leaking from a waggon.
FWIW, Stobart run a daily Tesco train to Inverness. It passes by my house. Unfortunately it doesn't stop, so I can't get my messages 😉
On the point about independence seekers - i.e. those looking to redress Scotland's democratic deficit - being as big a threat as Russia, China and Iran I was both appalled and cheered to see it.
Appalled by the clumsiness of lumping a legitimate, democratic movement in with international pariah states, and cheered at the recognition the movement is far from dead and way more than Nicola Sturgeon.
I really hope it ruined Dross's day.
Nicola Sturgeon now claiming that it was trans rights abuse, not her impending arrest, that caused her to quit. I wonder if this means she's feeling more confident about her own legal prospects and thinks she can realign history as a prelude to a comeback? Her successors haven't exactly energised the movement.
https://www.politico.eu/article/scotland-nicola-sturgeon-trans-rights-abuse-pushe-quit-leader-snp/
1 The SNP is not the independence movement.
2 She was wise not to mention operation branchform
3 My opinion Stranraer will win the SPFL before Nicola Sturgeon leads the SNP again.
More like abuse by trans activists not them getting abused.
Worker wins her tribunal after being sacked by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre for agreeing it was OK for some rape survivors to prefer being counselled by a woman. The tribunal describing the investigation before the sacking as
"“[It] is unfortunately a classic of its kind, somewhat reminiscent of the work of Franz Kafka."
And latest poll has SNP 10pts behind heading for 11 seats.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24333290.labour-hail-bombshell-poll-putting-10-points-ahead-snp/
The SNP is not the independence movement.
It's not the entirety of the independence movement, true, but it is the vanguard of that movement. I find the independence question stifling in Scottish politics. But in any case Sturgeon's successors haven't exactly energised the SNP itself, either. It might be a good idea not to discuss your husband and you being arrested...but if that's the case don't do interviews about why you quit and what was going on at the time. Only time will tell whether saying you stepped down because of abuse over trans issues is credible.
Galloway, Cameron, Salmond, Berlusconi and Trump all made political comebacks after people said they were finished. Why not Sturgeon - especially if she isn't charged with any offences?
Predictions for Scottish seats in the election.
Labour 38
SNP 8
Tories 6
LibDems 5
^ ****ing hope not, Labour are ****ing utterly detestable
Where are those predictions from?
I can see my constituency going to Labour, it was close last time round with the SNP.
I looked at two separate polls for my constituency with radically different predictions. I do not think enough granular work has been done to make any serious predictions. I would be very suprised if that was the outcome
Arse - well that's me bolloxed. I thought I'd have worked out where my vote should sit by the time the GE was called.
Struggling with SNP right now
Whilst a natural Green in many ways, some of their policies don't sit well with me.
Labour's independence stance is totally off putting.
Pretty much my entire adult life I've lived in safe tory seats where my vote made sod all difference - now I don't and I don't feel the love for any particular party. Damn it.
I wouldn't. People have short memories and the SNP fluffed the best opportunity for decolonisation in living memory by collecting 'mandates' and doing nothing with them. You know how the council elections in England and Wales earlier this year saw the tories trounced and the number of spoiled ballots at an all time high? Expect more of that. This is going to be an interesting but incredibly dirty election.
Im a bit like that convert. Labour have made it clear they do not care in the slightest for scotland and are not going to do stuff UK wide the SNP government have done ( end to the 2 child benefit rules and fairer rentals) and no increase in spending means no change in Scotland, SNP my local MP is a liar and carpetbagger. Labour candidate not much better last time around. they are the only two with a chance in my constituency
Lib Dems remain beyond the pale for Carmichael the liar and the coalition, Greens have a slim chance but like you very disappointed in their perfomance at holyrood. Tories are of course out
I doubt I will vote
Don't think the SNP will lose that many, tories will always have their voters up in Scotland, it's just Labour and SNP tend to battle each other for the same votes, hence why labour were decimated at the same time as the SNP grew in power, but a fair share will move their votes to greens or something else, so can't see labour gaining loads from the SNP, although to be fair they can't really do anything but gain some seats after recent times!
I expect 10 - 20 snp losses
On the other election thread SNP are stated at 18 seats from a electoral calculus which tends to be more accurate. A lot of it will depend on how well "two cheeks of the same arse" sticks Remember in the Rutherglen by election the labour candidate had to repudiate several key london labour policies to negate this. They will not get away with that in a GE
As I've already said in this thread, I'm unlikely to vote - for the first time IIRC. I've been an SNP voter all my life but that's been with a view towards independence. Sturgeon squandered the best opportunity and the party hasn't fixed itself since then. I might encourage one of the smaller Indy parties if they're standing in my constituency.
I reckon that lots of unhappy ex-SNP voters will hold their nose and put a tick against SNP come polling day so I take news of a 10% Labour lead with a pinch of salt.
Labour’s independence stance is totally off putting.
Even the SNP have tacitly admitted that independence is dead in the water.
Agree, I don't think snp losses will be as bad as has been predicted. I'm in lib/snp marginal, its lib by 200, I suspect it'll remain lib but I think the snp vote could be boosted by the chances of taking it. Tories and labour are nowhere
I have no bloody idea who the Labour candidate is. IIRC she may or may not be a councillor? About as faceless as the usual Lib candidate (when they field one) but at least not chasing cockle pickers and being a generally nasty shit like the last Green candidate was.
SLab don't really deserve a vote IMO, they've done little to redeem themselves or show they are capable of working in government. Then again look what SNP were fielding when they became the third party.
Don't bring me problems, bring me solutions.
I do feel that the swing to labour in Scotland will be less than in England ( and I don't know about wales) due to the poor behaviour of Scottish labour and the lack of anything to attract the Scots voter to labour.
Its odd because Starmer made it clear he wanted to do well in Scotland but has no policies to attract votes in Scotland
Labour may have a difficult horse to ride, some of their vote has recently been of the orange and unionist variety. Others say approximately one fifth of those who say they will vote Labour in a Westminster election support independence it's going to be difficult to appeal to both
Labour may have a difficult horse to ride, some of their vote has recently been of the orange and unionist variety.
That's starmers core vote in Scotland,
Sure but nothing for Scots voters? surely they can think of something? doesn't have to be constitutional but could be. Instead Starmer actively repudiates stuff that plays well up here like free prescriptions and university, like ending the 2 child benefit cap - and thats not to say actively refusing any movement on the EU or constitutional reform.
In Dumfries & Galloway. I will definitely vote - need for a change is too great not to. Just want the local Alaister Jack replacement Tory out, but not sure whether SNP or Labour more effective. Will probs go Labour as any small support for the change in Westminster needed, but worried Lab / SNP will split & let Tories in.
Others say approximately one fifth of those who say they will vote Labour in a Westminster election support independence it’s going to be difficult to appeal to both
Do they have to?
Labour gave us a parliament, they could take Indy votes with proper, equal, federalisation. Appeals to Unionists, nationalists and the generally spiteful.
I guess the problem might be Starmers only scottish MP is Murray - a rightwinger who prefers to see tories elected than SNP . the architect of the tory / labour pact
Even the SNP have tacitly admitted that independence is dead in the water.
There is a world of difference between saying "now is not the moment" and "this is not the path for us".
I might be able to live with labour being agnostic on the subject...
Tj - I’m really surprised at you being not bothered to vote. I had assumed you would be in the “if you don’t vote - you can’t complain” camp.
Labour may have a difficult horse to ride, some of their vote has recently been of the orange and unionist variety. Others say approximately one fifth of those who say they will vote Labour in a Westminster election support independence it’s going to be difficult to appeal to both
gordon - I don’t think it’s that hard to be a little more moderate and reconciliatory: “agree there’s a constitutional issue (the West Lothian question, Tam Dayell was a Labour MP) and propose a Constitutional Convention to see how it can be resolved - the aim to the unionist to put the Indy question to bed properly - it might also involve reviewing the Barnet formula or at least defining how it could be reviewed - winning English interest in discussing the issue; the aim for the Indy supporters to show you are listening and can provide a route to a vote if at some future point it’s got the momentum. The only fear for doing this is tories stealing your votes by out Unionisting you - if ever there was a time you could feel safe that classic Scots Labour voters were not going to vote Blue it was surely now - but they need to win back the SNP voters or risk having to work with them anyway if their landslide is not as big as they hope. But I think there’s more to appealing to Scottish voters than Indy. If you want to convince Scots that Westminster elections matter you need to be able to talk about things that aren’t just devolved issues that matter in Scotland. When you fall into that trap it gives the SNP a free pass to say “see they are focussed on England”.
Poly - My constituency will only be labour or SNP - so makes no real difference to the westminster government. tories have no chance.
Given that I dislike both candidates for frankly poor behaviour its hard to vote for either. Also at a national level I cannot vote for a brexiteer party which is what labour has become but the SNP MP lied to my face. makes it tricky
maybe green?
I see your dilemma. In similar shoes in the past I’ve voted for either the independent (and greens are probably in that class for WM) to try and help them get their deposit back as I think it’s important that no hope candidates do stand. OR for the individual I think would most likely be a descent local MP and represent my personal issue on whatever crisis I might encounter.
whilst policy matters a lot to me - I always have in my mind I’m voting for the person - they can cross the house next week if they choose.
Aye - it does not sit well with me not to. I'll look at the options and manifestos and make up my mind.
Labour have made it clear they do not care in the slightest for scotland and are not going to do stuff UK wide the SNP government have done ( end to the 2 child benefit rules and fairer rentals)
These are devolved matters. The SNP cannot deliver them in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and will not work with Labour because of their tribal hatred of Labour and pigheaded view on the union that goes against the views of the majority of the electorate.
It's a weird position to be in favour of devolution and independence, but also to vote against a party because they won't impose a policy you want in a country in which you do not live. 🤔
SNP will work with labour. the two child limit is UK wide policy as is the bedroom tax. Scotys government took steps to alleviate them
I will not vote labour because they are brexiteers and attempting to gaslight us over it.
According to the last-but-one leader, the only way the SNP will work with Labour is to impose SNP policies on Northern Ireland, England and Wales! Doesn't sound very true to the principle of self-determination.
Sturgeon suggested she could lend her support to a Labour government if its policies were in line with the SNP’s own. “We see some parties in this election, not least Labour, putting forward policies the SNP have already implemented in Scotland,” she said.
According to the last-but-one leader, the only way the SNP will work with Labour is to impose SNP policies on Northern Ireland, England and Wales! Doesn’t sound very true to the principle of self-determination.
interesting interpretation of what she said (and ignoring the barnet consequences of any such policy in rUK)
"I don’t think it’s that hard to be a little more moderate and reconciliatory:" @ Poly There's a real need for people to be a bit more moderate and reconciliatory in the debate. I for one am sick of the labelling, Snatzis and Yoons guff that goes on in so called debates. Yes there is very much a need to get on with the nitty gritty boring stuff like council tax, and schools , housing etc . It 's hardly moderate or conciliatory to state that independence is "dead in the water" when 45% or more of the population support it.
There's a need for pragmatism and willingness to work together on both sides.
It won't come as a surprise to many on here my vote will be for the SNP though I have many reservations
It ‘s hardly moderate or conciliatory to state that independence is “dead in the water” when 45% or more of the population support it.
Pretty much the only thing of note that John Swinney will achieve as interim party leader will be his decision to scrap the role of minister for independence. When the leader of the independence movement while in they're still in power does something like that it tells every voter the importance to the SNP of the subject.
If you don't think that's moderate, take it up with your SNP candidate.
There’s a real need for people to be a bit more moderate and reconciliatory in the debate.
I mentioned I wasn't going to vote SNP 'again' at the next election and that I wasn't going to vote Alba, leaving the greens and pretty much no one else, and got a very unexpected response about being ok with/asking if I was ok with all sorts of horrible stuff. 🤷♂️
minister for independence.
That was always window dressing. A way for the SNP to signal to the Indy supporters that they hadn't forgotten their role. I always thought it was a mistake. Every SNP minister should be the minister for independence. It should be baked into their position, not forgotten about to be left to one individual.
@piemonster If I do decide to leave the SNP it would be to put all my support into some of the groups who campaign outside of parliamentary politics. Neither Alba nor the greens are for me, for different reasons. So far as I know the ISP don't have a branch anywhere near me. Somebody spoke about the "vanguard" of the independence movement, I believe the "vanguard" of the independence movement is not in parliamentary politics but in social movements .
Suspended for 27 days and pay docked for 54, check your roaming plans!
Pretty much the only thing of note that John Swinney will achieve as interim party leader will be his decision to scrap the role of minister for independence. When the leader of the independence movement while in they’re still in power does something like that it tells every voter the importance to the SNP of the subject.
I know its partly because there's some typos in there, but I can't actually work out what you meant?
Do you think the SNP don't want independence now? Do you think that John Swinney got rid of Min for Indy because he doesn't think Indy is important? You didn't listed to what he said - he said I don't think we need a special minister for this as its on every ministers agenda. Now is it the most important thing for most scots right now? definitely not. Is it the most important thing for most of the 45% who voted yes last time round - probably not. But it it one of the top 6 issues most Scots will discuss on politics - certainly (whether for, against or unsure).
What the SNP lack is a clear path to a meaningful, legal, useful referendum. Thats not an SNP issue. Thats a Westminster issue. The next prime minister would do well to realise that telling people they can't have the discussion leads to a resentment that actually increases the desire for independence. It also stokes the if "WM don't want us to go, we must be really valuable" argument.
