“I did like the comment someone made on how a minority govt would work. Maybe pass fewer new laws and concentrate on governing well with what we have?”
Oh, yes, and the comment that the Gender Bill was stupid, and shouldnt have been brought in. (well, not in those words, but that was the sentiment).
SNP, Tories and Labour won't work with each other - especially when there's another Scottish and another UK general election next year. It would be months of infighting without any time to achieve anything. So...SNP minority government...?
The other side of the same coin is why I can see why Humza wouldn't want to hang around and just get a kicking continuously until the next defeat. Its a bit like the Sunak position, except the Tories have better unity and Sunak is more arrogant (and may even think he can salvage it).
Maybe pass fewer new laws and concentrate on governing well with what we have?
Implementation by the executive is even harder than legislation by Parliament. You actually have to have a plan and consistency and support. What can you achieve in less than a year without political capital in the middle of a polyshambles? Obviously it would be your duty to try but I wouldn't be overconfident.
Wouldnt the issue of assisted dying be something that could well be addressed by a citizens assembly well informed by experts in the field òr even a second chamber?
No. Assisted dying is a moral question on which everyone is equally qualified, not merely some kind of technical question that can be settled by experts. The "technocrats" work by separating issues into two categories: the things that you believe are ideological and political and messy, but the things I believe are technical and not open to challenge.
And this stuff about "citizens assemblies" is a weird Rory Stewart hobby horse. It's intending to circumvent the democratic processes and democratically-elected parties that aren't producing the outcomes he wants. The UK (and Scotland) doesn't need more levels of political discourse and representation, and voters don't want them.
No. Assisted dying is a moral question on which everyone is equally qualified
I would like to see all Govts in this country to be doing their very best for the elderly and disabled who want to live before they start to discussing legislation about how they're going to die. So far they all seem to be failing that very low bar.
This is the problem with having the main opposition being branch offices of the Westminster parties.
For the Scottish Parliament to work properly there has to be the ability to compromise which is made much more difficult when the bosses get on the phone and say, 'You know that legislation you've spent 2 years working on? Yeah, we don't like it. Ditch it.'
Labour and Tories in Scotland need to detach themselves from the Westminster parties. You can be unionists without being lapdogs.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/24284455.live-humza-yousaf-considers-standing-down-first-minister/
Alba reaction
Alba MP Kenny MacAskill told the BBC his party's only MSP Ash Regan has been back in contact with the first minister.He said it would be an "absurd situation" for Yousaf to resign when there was an "opportunity for the SNP to get back on the independence track" through a pact with Alba.
However, he said the Alba Party were not there to simply "prop up" the SNP.
Alba suddenly not feeling quite so cocky? Wonder why...
Alba definitely overplayed their hand. Crowing that Regan was the most important person in Scottish politics or whatever it was Salmond was boasting about certainly made the SNP think again.
Can’t quite get over the degree of ineptitude Yousaf has displayed. Sacking the Greens certainly showed’em who’s Boss.
Can’t quite get over the degree of ineptitude Yousaf has displayed. Sacking the Greens certainly showed’em who’s Boss.
I suspect he got the idea in his head that if the Greens ended the BHA he would be seen as weak.
I'm not sure if that would have actually been the case. The Greens were (and still are) in a state of civil war between the leadership and the membership. Let them get on with it, fall apart, and sweep up the disgruntled ex-members.
so will we see an election? Presumably SNP still end up largest party after than – but with a smaller number of seats… so who will work together ?
SNP will lose seats for sure - and almost certainly enough that SNP and Greens together cannot form a government. Alba will get no seats. Labour / lib dem / tory will not work with the SNP
We will end up with a labour / tory government. Its the only way the numbers will add up and labours tribal hatred of the SNP will lead them into this mistake. Like with Edinburgh council they will try to dress it up as a labour minority government. This is what labour have done in many councils such is their hatr5ed of the SNP that they would rather work with the tories than with fellow social democrats
It would put Labour in a difficult spot from a UK perspective too, fighting a Westminster GE against the Tories while power sharing at Holyrood. And then there will be another Holyrood GE in 2026 too?
Alba suddenly not feeling quite so cocky? Wonder why…
Salmond wont care. He got the attention which to him is far more important than Scottish Nationalism or whats best for Scotland.
Have to say I'm quite enjoying this soap opera/clusterf*** the SNP have brought upon themselves. Coalition politics at its very best. And to think many people want to replicate it across the rest of the UK!
And then there will be another Holyrood GE in 2026 too?
Not if there is an election now
I would like to see all Govts in this country to be doing their very best for the elderly and disabled who want to live before they start to discussing legislation about how they’re going to die. So far they all seem to be failing that very low bar.
The health of the general population is of course the priority for anyone supporting assisted dying, which will benefit society both for the patients and those around them.
Not if there is an election now
I thought it was a fixed, 5-yearly schedule now?
Surely that clock would be reset if there is one now? ie itys five years from the previous election
Maybe. I thought the calendar had been fixed as a result of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act (so as not to have any dual elections) but that was, of course, repealed so it's all up for grabs again?
"And then there will be another Holyrood GE in 2026 too?"
"Not if there is an election now"
According to Wings Over Scotland who has a good track record the Scotland Act means any election will just be for a parliament to run up to 2026.
@Scotroutes The fixed term parliament act and repeal was Westminster elections. Holyrood elections under the Scotland Act.
The fixed term parliament act and repeal was Westminster elections. Holyrood elections under the Scotland Act.
Just had a look. The Holyrood elections were originally every 4 years, but were changed to every 5 so they couldn't overlap with Westminster. That was the source of my confusion. So, every 5 years regardless of any intervening election.
Both the Gender reform act; and liam McArthers asssisted dying bill actually show Holyrood in a good light in that they were / are well considered compromises based on a lot of debate and expert opinion - not the results of a single parties ideology. Both have / had cross party support.
It would be really stupid to have one now and another in 26. I cannot believe that was the intention when the act was written.
A quick Google says that
Any extraordinary general election would be in addition to the ordinary general elections, unless held less than six months before the due date of an ordinary general election, in which case it would supplant it.
I hadn’t realised how godbothery Scottish politics was.
Its not in general. Its just in the last couple of years god botherers have got into positions of power.
Well you don’t see the UK govt collapsing because of fringe issues like gender recognition.
Not to mention irrelevancies like environmental targets.
Yes, instead you see the Tories able to do pretty much whatever they want because 30% of the population agree with them. And no one can do anything about it.
Thanks, but I'll stick with minority governments and coalitions.
Not to mention irrelevancies like environmental targets.
Is a target that's completely unachievable relevant?
don’t feed the troll
You don't think the unstable nature of coalition politics is a topical issue when it has caused the collapse of a government?
god botherers
genuine question, why is it acceptable to use this kind of language to describe religious folks? If someone used a derogatory term to describe for example a trans person they’d (rightly) receive a hammering and most likely a ban.
its typical stw hypocrisy..
For the Scottish Parliament to work properly there has to be the ability to compromise which is made much more difficult when the bosses get on the phone and say, ‘You know that legislation you’ve spent 2 years working on? Yeah, we don’t like it. Ditch it.’
labours tribal hatred of the SNP
This is the sound of feet stamping about the fact that opposition parties have the temerity to be in opposition to the SNP. "But why won't they just agreeeeee?" Apparently when everyone does what the SNP says, it's compromise, but when the SNP does what its voters instructed it to do, it's...what?
There is plenty of scope for compromise between nationalist and unionist parties. The SNP just hasn't cut a deal to get what it wants. This is just another around-the-houses way of blaming Teh Unionists for the SNP's lack of success in government and making everything about independence, even when the subject matter is clearly devolved and would be handled by the same parliament in the same way even in an independence Scotland.
This is the sound of feet stamping about the fact that opposition parties have the temerity to be in opposition to the SNP. “But why won’t they just agreeeeee?”
Actually, on GRR there was cross party support after years of negotiation and compromise. Only the Tories opposed it and even they were in favour when Ruth Davidson was in charge.
Tories blocked it. Then Labour said, 'Actually, we don't like it either.'
It's a perfect example of the Scottish Parliament acting in the way it was designed only for the main offices to jump in and have a temper tantrum.
It's amazing the number of people who feel the need to comment on this thread despite having obviously paid very little attention to Scottish politics recently.
PCA - its really not the SNP that is the cause of the non co operation. Its labour mainly and their complete refusal to work with the SNP anywhere any time instead simply attempting to wreck everything automatically opposing pretty much everything the SNP suggest. Labour have been punished at the polls for this attitude giving the SNP 16 years of power and labour 16 years on the sidelines.
We have had labour in Scotland opposing issues like minimum alcohol pricing even tho it was london labour policy
I used to be a labour voter but since they lost power in Scotland and behaved so badly I have stopped voting for them. Its the bain principle and their only policy is "SNP baaaaaaad"
I wonder if the SNP's decision making recently has any relation to the imminent changes coming in UK politics - it's been relatively easy for the SNP to contrast themselves against the Tories for 14 years. I wonder if there's a fear in SNP circles that it may not be as easy with a Labour (in my opinion Labour in name only) UK government round the corner.
SNP support/goodwill is waning - but what will be interesting is whether there is still real appetite for Independence in the wider populace in say 10 years time.
I really want to see proper cross party work in the Scottish Parliament again - I'm no SNP supporter but I think TJ has a point that Labour hasn't done itself any favours in Scotland with their refusal to talk to the Government in order to move things that matter on for the greater good. The SNP and Labour should have more in common than not - but that divisive referendum campaigning a decade ago did a lot of damage to Labour in Scotland, and we all are paying the price.
Is a target that’s completely unachievable relevant?
It wasn't unachievable when it was created.
Humza just resigned, god knows who will be next, there's horrific candidates chasing this one now!
there’s horrific candidates chasing this one now!
I like Gilruth and MacAllan.
But it's not going to be either of them.
I am pretty sure that there are talented folk within the SNP - but I believe they do not want the leadership now as the next election cycle will be bad news with the SNP losing power at holyrood. they want to be the next but one leader to renew the party after the poor election results that are coming.
There is also a battle for thed direction oif the SNP with the right ie the tartan tories trying to move the poarty to the right. Fergus Ewing in particular is trying to do this as he hates the attempts to control grouse moors. Others in the mix as well. the SNP is a broader church than most parties and the fracture li9nes are showing
Its hard to see a candidate coming forward that will be able to cobble together a majority. the right of the SNP certainly cannot unless they deal with the tories. Possible I suppose if D.Ross goes ( he has hung his hat on the no co operation peg)
Forbes will never get it - even if she become SNP leader she will not get a parliamentary majority
Isn't McAllan off on maternity now, and she wasn't exactly great with the Ferries and other transport issues if it's the one i'm thinking off, Gilruth would be fun to see her up against Forbes, but all i see is more dirty washing being aired with another battle within the SNP for this.
genuine question, why is it acceptable to use this kind of language to describe religious folks? If someone used a derogatory term to describe for example a trans person they’d (rightly) receive a hammering and most likely a ban.
its typical stw hypocrisy..
You could try reporting both of those posts but you'll often run into the sensibilities and prejudices of the Moderators (that's not a complaint, just a reflection of reality). And anti-religious bias has already popped up on this thread.
Anyone who thinks that having people of faith in positions of power is new, or unique to Scotland, hasn't been paying attention for the last few thousand years.
I think she's going on maternity soon. So there's that. And the fact she was the face of scrapping the emissions target.
Has Liz Truss thrown her hat into the ring yet?
the right of the SNP certainly cannot unless they deal with the tories.
Isn't that massively unlikely though? Even if they've got common policy ground, there is a massive elephant in the room, that would massively the Tories' vote as the party of the union?
genuine question, why is it acceptable to use this kind of language to describe religious folks? If someone used a derogatory term to describe for example a trans person they’d (rightly) receive a hammering and most likely a ban.
god botherer isn't a derogatory term for religious people. It's a mildly insulting description of a particular kind of religious person. It's entirely possible to be religious and not be a god botherer (it's also possible to choose not to be religious at all but that's beside the point).
It's definitely not in the same category as using derogatory terms for trans people.
its really not the SNP that is the cause of the non co operation. Its labour mainly and their complete refusal to work with the SNP anywhere any time instead simply attempting to wreck everything automatically opposing pretty much everything the SNP suggest. Labour have been punished at the polls for this attitude giving the SNP 16 years of power and labour 16 years on the sidelines.
We have had labour in Scotland opposing issues like minimum alcohol pricing even tho it was london labour policy
Its amazing how nothing is ever the fault of the SNP! Even when they have devolved power the failings are still someone else's fault.
They have been in power since 2007 and have failed on so many metrics yet its somehow the fault of the union. They even failed on Independence but half the time that gets blamed on Gordon Brown.
Good riddance, lets hope we get a party with some competence in who will start to try and improve Scotland not just divide and blame.
Well you don’t see the UK govt collapsing because of fringe issues like gender recognition.
Yes, rather pathetic when you could go for bankrupting the nation.
(Westminster parties, and the SNP are internal, hidden coalitions - although Johnson expelled an important part of the Conservative party)
This. Independence was always a **** stupid idea so lets hope it’s dead and buried for the forseeable
Yes, the total denial to see the similarities between Indy & Brexit astound me.
Yes, the total denial to see the similarities between Indy & Brexit astound me.
Sure, there are similarities in terms of they both involve leaving a union.
If that's as much as you are capable of understanding then your points of view make much more sense.
Yeah, Brexit Means Brexit is obviously a much better plan.
Its pretty much the same plan! Both utterly ludicrous.
Like both would see us sanctioned as non members of the EU or customs union etc. However repair options differ.
Its hard to see a candidate coming forward that will be able to cobble together a majority. the right of the SNP certainly cannot unless they deal with the tories. Possible I suppose if D.Ross goes ( he has hung his hat on the no co operation peg)
A candidate who was not hell bent on indy ASAP could potentially persuade other parties to abstain on issues that they broadly agree with. Whilst that seems like a massive concession for the SNP, they are unlikely to try and majorly progress any Indy stuff in this parliamentary term except maybe something like Ash Regan's "referenda on referenda" bill! Its a position which might annoy some of the most belligerent indy fans (but they are potentially headed to Alba anyway) but could appeal to "mainstream" indy sympathisers who actually want them to run the country for now.
Yes, rather pathetic when you could go for bankrupting the nation
Who's being bankrupted? Have I missed something?
Sure, there are similarities in terms of they both involve leaving a union.
The impact of independence on Scotland would be much, much worse than the impact on the UK from brexit. You can't argue that leaving the EU was bad for the UK only then to do the exact opposite when it comes to Scotland.
You can’t argue that leaving the EU was bad for the UK only then to do the exact opposite when it comes to Scotland.
Sure, but at least then you can do something to go about fixing things and not leave your kids to continue dealing with a nation seemingly obsessed with nothing but past 'glories' and performative cruelty.
Unless there is a radical shift in the UK's trajectory there is nothing there for anyone except more of the same.
And I don't see you making any arguments for more of the same anywhere except here.
"We have had labour in Scotland opposing issues like minimum alcohol pricing even tho it was london labour policy"
The SNP accuse Scottish Labour of just being a branch office of UK Labour. So are they wrong for not following UK Labour 100% and not just being a branch office?
John Swinney to make a comeback. Safe pair of hands apparently.
Sure, but at least then you can do something to go about fixing things and not leave your kids to continue dealing with a nation seemingly obsessed with nothing but past ‘glories’ and performative cruelty.
It would be far less damaging to just vote out the current Tory Government which seems highly likely this year.
You can't fix much for your children if your country is in a total financial ruin.
Will
it’s been relatively easy for the SNP to contrast themselves against the Tories for 14 years
The SNP isn't competing against the Tories in Scottish elections. The choice in front of them isn't Tory or SNP - it's Labour or SNP.
And anti-religious bias has already popped up on this thread.
Not just bias, but actual conspiracy theory - that Humza Yusuf was under the sway of "the Mosque". Which mosque and how? Never answered...
And I don’t see you making any arguments for more of the same anywhere except here.
Scotland has the same issues going on as the rUK, the solutions to those lie in both the Scottish and UK govts implementing policy to address those issues, rather than focusing on some fantastical catch-all remedy in the form of independence. Those in the SNP pedalling independence rather than doing their jobs in the Scottish and UK parliaments are no better than Nigel Farage and Rees Mogg et al.
Has Liz Truss thrown her hat into the ring yet?
"Did I ever mention I grew up in Paisley...?"
Good riddance, lets hope we get a party with some competence in who will start to try and improve Scotland not just divide and blame.
No party running a devolved country will be allowed to make a better job of it than whoever is running the UK, and if they actually manage it, even with their hands 'tied' by the finances being controlled by the UK, the UK Govt will ensure that their client media says otherwise.
But you Unionist don't actually want Scotland better than the other UK countries do you.
Scotland has the same issues going on as the rUK, the solutions to those lie in both the Scottish and UK govts implementing policy to address those issues, rather than focusing on some fantastical catch-all remedy in the form of independence. Those in the SNP pedalling independence rather than doing their jobs in the Scottish and UK parliaments are no better than Nigel Farage and Rees Mogg et al
This^^^^^
Independence is the simple answer to a complex problem. It won't fix anything, it will just compound issues. Brexit was exactly the same.
Not just bias, but actual conspiracy theory – that Humza Yusuf was under the sway of “the Mosque”. Which mosque and how? Never answered…
Not sure if you actually follow much Scottish news, but 'the mosque' is in relation to a story that he avoided the gay marriage vote due to, according to Alex Neil, 'pressure from the mosque.'
We don't know anything more than that so unfortunately we can't tell you which mosque or if it even meant an actual mosque.
You'll have to ask Yousaf yourself if it's that important to you.
But you Unionist don’t actually want Scotland better than the other UK countries do you
Utter drivel. I would like the whole of the UK to be improved. Independence will make matters far worse for Scotland.
This comment proves my earlier point about division. The SNP like all nationalists thrive on division.
Who’s being bankrupted? Have I missed something?
You would be forgiven if you had missed it.
You may or may not have missed Scotland being expelled from the EU. That's real damage not a hypothetical.
Scotland has the same issues going on as the rUK
Yes, because Scotland is in the UK. Leaving the UK means we don't have to keep appeasing English racists and can actually implement policies that don't require us to keep our 'sovereignty' (whatever the hell that means).
Like, you know, talking to the EU. And maybe even agreeing some stuff, who knows.
But as a Brexiteer I know you feel this won't make any difference and Make Brexit Work is the only solution.
Utter drivel. I would like the whole of the UK to be improved
I'd like Emily Blunt to call me and invite me out to dinner.
Anyone else want to share their completely unrealistic fantasies?
Good riddance, lets hope we get a party with some competence in who will start to try and improve Scotland not just divide and blame.
So which party do you think is going to achieve any of your points: competence, improve Scotland, not divide and blame?
- Douglas Ross and Anas Sarwar aren't exactly oozing with competence. They are branch leaders of their parent parties.
- improving Scotland is obviously subjective, but I've not heard anyone with a plan for that?
- all new incumbents blame the last lot for at least the first half of the term
- any potential new incumbent who says "thinking about indy was the issue" seems to be dividing and blaming
This. Independence was always a fkn stupid idea so lets hope it’s dead and buried for the forseeable.
A failure to recognise why people want indy and how to address that was always a stupid idea, it won't go away. It might never get sufficient majority to force it to happen but when over 1/3rd of the electorate are vocal about a topic you can't simply ignore it and tell them they are stupid. Especially not with something like Indy.
Anyone else want to share their completely unrealistic fantasies?
This coming from an Independence supporter is laughable.
John Swinney to make a comeback. Safe pair of hands apparently.
Makes a lot of sense and if he does it it really will be taking one for the team.
Next couple of elections are going to be brutal for the SNP. Some interesting prospects for future leadership out there but I think having one of the old guard take a kicking and then let the next generation rebuild will be a good strategy.
Assuming that's the plan.
Not sure why the indy argument is up again, i've never heard any real argument for or against it since the last vote, it's all maybe this, maybe that either way, so a pretty useless argument to have with the current issue.
As for Scottish Labour, i've never seen the reasoning why folk think they'd help the SNP in any way, i remember how the SNP basically snaffled up the Labour votes in Scotland and drove them to near extinction, folk think that because they're both similar in outlooks to the tories, they should be allies, but as we've seen in the last 20 years, that's meant Labour losing 40 MPs in Parliament and going from 1st to last in Holyrood. It's weird, but opposites are better in many cases, they're not hunting the same voters, and not trying to undermine the other to gain vote share, the more natural pairing for me would be the tories and SNP 😂
A candidate who was not hell bent on indy ASAP
The SNP hasn't been hell bent on Indy for about 10 years. They'll occasionally dig out a "prepare for Indy" quote when there's an election in the office, then drop the pretence for a while. Now, you can argue that just getting on and running the country is more important short term but the sort of long term strategic thinking required hasn't been forthcoming, and won't be possible while Westminster holds the power and purse strings.
As I said earlier on this thread many actual Indy supporters have switched off and I'm waiting to see if they'll bother to turn out to vote any time soon.
This coming from an Independence supporter is laughable.
Yes, no country that has gained independence has ever succeeded in any way shape or form. Each and every time they have gone crawling back to the country they gained independence from.
