There was some moaning when I mentioned a couple of developments in mainstream Scottish politics on the thread about Nicola Sturgeon and her husband being arrested, so it might be more useful to discuss them on some kind of general Scottish politics thread.
– the Scottish government has binned its decarbonisation targets and adopted the pisspoor English and Welsh approach.
– life expectancy in Scotland is the worst in Western Europe and the drugs death rate is 3 times higher than in England, despite child poverty being about ⅔ of that in England
- alcohol deaths are about a third higher in Scotland than in the UK generally, and the number of people accessing alcohol treatment in Scotland has gone down by 40% in 10 years. https://news.stv.tv/scotland/scotlands-alcohol-deaths-worst-in-uk-as-rates-hit-record-high
The pisspoor health outcomes are particularly interesting (when the decarbonisation stuff is simply bad government). It's not as simple as saying "deprivation is the cause" when the data from across Europe shows that the highest drug-induced death rates are in Finland (very rich) and lowest in Romania (pretty poor). https://www.statista.com/statistics/1066573/drug-induced-deaths-europe/
But equally, much as it might fit my anti-SNP bias, it's not enough to just blame the Scottish government for the much higher death rates. England has greater deprivation, and there is equally shambolic government across the other three government in the UK (NI didn't even have a government for some years!), and yet the death rates are significantly lower across all of them.
What happens to the Green-SNP relationship? Is the Scottish electorate going to massacre the SNP at the general election as they previously massacred the Lib Dems, Labour, and Tories? Will Labour ever bother learning the lessons of the SNP's early years: that there is a desire for assertive, social democratic European style government in the UK electorate? Can the Scottish Tories ever do anything right?
I think I can answer the last one. Yes.
There is a Tory vote in Scotland, Ì'm 62 I reckon I'll be dead before the Tories make it into government in Scotland unless it's on a supply and confidence basis, but yes they can play to their Scottish base and get a few more seats in the right circumstances.
I'd say the only voters in Scotland who will feel hugely motivated about voting right now are those that are both pro union and pro supporting a Starmer Westminster government. That's not exactly a niche group of people, but it leaves a lot of others feeling pretty lacking in enthusiasm for politics right now.
+1
A pox on all their houses.
I'm unlikely to vote in any upcoming elections.
I wish Gordimhor a long and healthy life. Til at last 135 if that means the Tories are not in power in Scotland! (And England too I hope !)
On a different point, I'd actually like to understand why (how) Scotland has managed (or if not 'managed' then at least 'stumbled into') the less-worse child poverty rate. Is it just that it's stayed the same rate whilst England has got even worse ? Or has there been an actual reason for the Scottish rate to reduce ?
Child poverty rate is 30% in the UK generally and 24% in Scotland. Some or all of that difference is down to..."The Scottish Child Payment, the Scottish government's flagship policy in this area, [which] currently pays £25 a week for every child in households which claim certain benefits or tax credits, with more than 400,000 families eligible."
"wish Gordimhor a long and healthy life. Til at last 135 if that means the Tories are not in power in Scotland! "
I'll take that cheers 😁
As for child poverty I'll say there's been the introduction and then an increase in the value of the Scottish Child Payment. That has been helpful to many
The climate stuff is disappointing. My biggest frustration with it is that it seemed likely the target would be missed, so we're changing the target, not doing the obvious thing of to try harder. But that's politics - more important to be seen to meet a weaker target than miss a big one.
As someone who works in Scottish Government (a kind of IT job in forestry, not anything to do with policies etc) the complexity of getting stuff done regularly astounds me. It's probably the same if not worse in UK government, but sometimes the simplest sounding things have so many caveats and considerations, I'm amazed anything gets done. Not a criticism, just a realisation of the reality of actually trying to achieve anything.
Double post - sorry!
My biggest frustration with it is that it seemed likely the target would be missed, so we’re changing the target, not doing the obvious thing of to try harder. But that’s politics – more important to be seen to meet a weaker target than miss a big one.
Not always. They're happy to change the target for this when it's clear it would be missed, yet appear to have zero intentions of changing the 4hr A&E waiting time target (or putting the correct resources in place to make it possible).
That's not always an easy decision to make . Which budgets are you going to cut to get the necessarry funds?
The ferries budget...?
Ditching net zero is a policy the sane majority can get behind and a surefire vote winner.
Concerning the ferries, there was a Professor interviewed on Radio Scot at the weekend (maybe Friday), who went into detail into why the new ferries have been such a disaster. It all started with the stupid design to use LNG as a fuel, this ruined any hope of getting a sleek modern ferry built in any acceptable timeframe. It then carried on with all the other requirements which all added weight, time and complexity to the design and build. If it was built to a standard design, they would have been in service years ago, but as it is, there is hope it could only be 6 years late, but will have operating costs far in excess of what can be achieved for the rest of its life.
Then it came to political interference, which would be comical if it wasnt so serious. The requirements fro Transport Scotland was like children picking whatever they wanted from a list for the ships, and the Designers had to design to their spec. Add in the procurement process was crooked, Contracts kept being changed (in the shipyards favour), even though it was a fixed price contract, and design was constantly being changed, the ships were never going to be built to time or budget. When they do run, they’ll cost more than equivalent ferries, they’ll be harder to use, and far more complex, so breakdowns are more likely.
So, which members of the SNP/Alba will be resigning because of this massive waste of Taxpayers money?
Salmond is laughing away, even though he started it all, and probably blaming the English for the failings.
Sturgeon is virtually finished, so no one is going to come away from this farce with a stain on their character, when there should be a list of those involved barred from public office ever again.
Based on everything you're complaining about happened during the Union, did I miss you demanding independence - or is it just a different form of Union you want?
Wouldn't it be right to say that the SNP's incompetence compounded the issues with ferries?
"SNP’s incompetence compounded the issues with ferries?"
Absolutely,
Ferguson Marine didnt play fair all the time either.
It's also a major problem that a largely central belt dominated government does not understand how crucial ferries are to islands.
It’s also a major problem that a largely central belt dominated government does not understand how crucial ferries are to islands.
If that were true, which I don’t really accept, it feels like a failing on the local MPs to communicate within their own party the significance of the issue. There’s a lot of yellow on the map from outside the central belt - including the two most prominent deputy FM’s / finance secretaries and 2/4 of the leaders of the last 20 years!
its a shit show - but I don’t think it’s because they misunderstood the importance of ferries. They might have been trying to be too clever - clyde build ferries for political reasons; eco ferries; even large ferries as flagship projects. But really we don’t expect the transport minister to work out how silly details we want them to make sure the organisational infrastructure is running correctly for professionals to do that and deliver what is needed. The real issue is CMAL / Transport Scotland not the political direction from the top - unless their incompetence was caused by, rather than inspire of, political influence on policy. There may be further Calmac/CMAL interface issues because it’s one of those fake “not really a public body” organisations who have a public service purpose.
have the SNP got it right? Clearly not. But which other party or coalition of parties would have done a better job - even now I’ve not heard an alternative that actually sounds like there is a credible plan.
Generally, I think policies in Scotland have been better for the people, certainly better than Westminster policies. There are initiatives to get people out exercising, the free prescriptions to keep people getting medicines, rather than not being able to afford them etc. However, in some areas, they are failing, Dentists are one, no NHS dentists available in D&G for example.
Railway infrastructure has generally gone well, electrification and opening of new lines has (almost) all gone to plan and on budget. But then we have Stranraer cut off the network for over 6 months now. Local rumour has it that as the area is Conservative, central (SNP) Government wont get involved, if, for example a central belt line was blocked for a few months, there would be enquiries and action taken to reopen the line, but no one seems bothered about Stranraer.
Then we get to the ferry farce, and Edinburgh Trams (I know not a direct Government project), and you think how can those in charge get it so wrong? Not just a bit wrong, but totally wrong in that costs have gone from <£100m to >£360m, and timescale from 3 years to 9 years+ for delivery.
I think its the malaise that has hit public bodies, and politicians over the UK. Lack of talented people want to do it, so we’re stuck with those who fell into their roles. Look at the leadership election for the SNP last year (2 yrs?). Hardly inspiring were they. Hamza seems a decent guy, but he’s not a great Leader, and looks like he’ll be trying to put together a minority Government after the election. With a larger Labour Opposition, I hope he’ll be held to account better than any Opposition are doing now.
Not just a bit wrong, but totally wrong in that costs have gone from <£100m to >£360m, and timescale from 3 years to 9 years+ for delivery.
tbh, that's not unusual in the private sector either.
It's more management culture of taking the estimate as the hard limit for each part of every project.
Local rumour has it that as the area is Conservative, central (SNP) Government wont get involved, if, for example a central belt line was blocked for a few months, there would be enquiries and action taken to reopen the line, but no one seems bothered about Stranraer.
Mmm... those people say things like that with absolutely nothing to back it up. Firstly, whilst its seriously shit that Stranraer is cut off, comparing Stranraer to "central belt" is naive at best. Its not mass population central belt with all that goes with that, for better of worse. You'd need to compare to a comparable sized town in a remote SNP area. Say Forfar...? I doubt there would have been a magic bullet. Not convinced by that? Ask the people of Oban about landslips on the RBT and WC mainline, the people of Strontian about the Corran ferry, the population of Lochcarron about complex arrangements with their landslips a few years ago...
But if you want to know in the central belt - when the union canal breach happened it took out the main glasgow - edinburgh railway for 6 weeks. Was that quicker because the SNP made it so? or was it because that's how long it took v's Ayr station hotel fire? Of course it may be that Ayrshire council could have done more sooner, it might be that is a S. Ayrshire Council and D&G Council not playing nice together - but they are both Conservative controlled at the moment IIRC!
Meh, same problem Scotland has that the UK has, that the EU has, that the US have, politicians, there are a lot more career politicians around these days, and the SNP have their fair share as well, i'd say it's a sign that we need to break down parliaments and decentralise, but then i see the standard of local politicians and i'm not sure what's best!
Generally agree with you poly . However Forfar ...remote😃
You could add to your list the A82 and the 20 odd year wait for a new Belford Hospital. Thìs being from a Lochaber perspective.
Also just to put my cards on the table Ì'm (still) an SNP member
agree argee but we also need to break down our councils the size of some of them is ridiculous
"have the SNP got it right? Clearly not. But which other party or coalition of parties would have done a better job"
Maybe a party that was less concerned in economic nationalism (Scottish ferries for Scottish fowk) would have been less likely to get sucked into propping up and nationalising a shipyard at massive expense? It's saved a few jobs at the cost of making everyone else's jobs more heavily taxed.
It's a weird argument to say "well, you shouldn't hold parties to account for their failures in government because other people might have done better or worse".
And this is even weirder: "Based on everything you’re complaining about happened during the Union, did I miss you demanding independence – or is it just a different form of Union you want?". The SNP mangled Scottish ferries procurement so this proves that Scotland should be independent? That makes no sense at all.
It's striking that even when the SNP is examined for its own track record in government in Scotland, its most ardent supporters will always try to find some way to explain that it's really the fault of Westminster. When Murrell is re-arrested by Police Scotland, it's not because there is a lawful basis to do so - it's because it's a Tory plot to gain advantage in local elections in England & Wales. Why? How? There are no answers.
There's no culture of accountability within the SNP. Let's hope the electorate brings it from outside next time around...
"The real issue is CMAL / Transport Scotland not the political direction from the top"
It was the SNP that over-ruled CMAL to get the contract to Ferguson without a refund guarantee in case of problems.
I am not sure who it was that decided what we needed were more expensive and complex dual fual ships though.
That's a difficult conundrum for any government. Bail out a local supplier and get panned for it. The three Turkish ferries appear to be on budget and on schedule but the government was accused of failing to support local employers.
The option of dual-power was made with the best of environmental intentions but has, undoubtedly, been a massive contributor to the cost and delays. If, as a result, Scottish industry is now well placed to develop and build using that technology then there might be a longer term payback. However, I suspect that any new skills will be off-shored PDQ.
Which budgets are you going to cut to get the necessary funds?
Those that pay for tax breaks for large multinational companies.
I jest, it will be the poor and disabled as per usual.
Actually the poor and disabled get a distinctly better deal in Scotland than the rest of the UK
On the drug deaths. The stats are so bad because of a small population of hard core opiate addicts in Glasgow. The Scottish government has tried to do something about this using proven best practice from other countries. All steps they want to take are vetoed by Westminster as drug policy is reserved and the Tories would rather the deaths continue so they have a stick to beat the Scots government with.
So the blame for the deaths continuing can be firmly laid at Westminsters door
Having 21% of the population in poverty (Scotland) compared to having 22% of the population in poverty (Wales or England) isn't much to show off about. It's still a failure (and worse than Northern Ireland, at 16%).
https://www.jrf.org.uk/uk-poverty-2024-the-essential-guide-to-understanding-poverty-in-the-uk
The stats are so bad because of a small population of hard core opiate addicts in Glasgow.
Casual googling (the BBC) says that just 1% of the drug deaths in Scotland are hard-core long term users. most death drugs showed multiple drugs use - mostly street drugs mixed with (presumably stolen) 'script drugs like pregabalin and diazepam, and although Glasgow has the highest rate at 30 deaths/ 100,000 people, Ayrshire and Tayside weren't far behind at 27 and 25 respectively. Scotland has the highest rate in the whole of Europe and 3 times the rate of both Wales and England - Wales being a Labour devolved govt - so presumably what they're doing is also controlled by Westminster?
Presumably the Scottish govt cutting rehabilitation and addiction programmes haven't helped and Sturgeon herself hasn't defended their policies calling it both "indefensible" and "a national disgrace"
You're right pca the stats on poverty are an embarassment to us all. It's not only the Scottish Government that is to blame it is all our governments and importantly it is employers who boost their substantial profits by paying full time workers a wage that is too small to live on.
The nature of landownership in Scotland also contributes to poverty in some areas by blocking development.
Another deal where the SNP government probably allowed themselves to be hoodwinked was the Alcan smelter deal.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/04/03/gupta-acquired-scottish-hunting-estate-taxpayer-backed-deal/
This included a 114000 acre estate which the Lochaber community wanted to buy in a community buy out. It would have been the biggest community buy out by far, and even leaving the hydro power rights with Gupta Family Group would have been much more transformational for Lochaber than for example being designated as a National Park
"So the blame for the deaths continuing can be firmly laid at Westminsters door"
So just to be clear: are you saying Westminster is responsible for the drugs death rate being 2.7 times higher in Scotland than in England?
Is Westminster also to blame for the rate of opioid addiction in Scotland (1.62% of population) being almost twice as high as the rate of opioid addiction in England (0.89%)?
https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/101644/html/
And this is despite the same drugs laws being applied in both places, but enforcement of those laws, health, social services and housing being matters devolved to the Scottish Parliament?
Drink and drugs in Scotland has always been horrific, but probably on par with other areas of the UK. I've lost a few mates and family through drink and drugs over the years in Scotland, you don't just change it when it rears its head, it happens much earlier, i grew up with drink and drugs being the big thing at weekends and weeknights for many, it's a lifestyle you fall into, and if you're unlucky enough to be predisposed to alcohol, it'll grab your entire life.
Every time i go back i see Perth and Dundee with more and more alcoholics or druggies wandering about, it's been increasing for a generation now and no sign of it reducing.
Again, these issues are around the length and breadth of the UK, some areas it's better hidden, some it's just right in your face and makes people think it's works, same with homelessness, you see it as a huge issue in some cities and towns as it's right in front of you, but move to another place with an equal level of homeless people and it's just hidden better by the councils, or whoever.
In my 47 years on this planet, 26 years in Scotland, 21 in England, i've just never noticed there being much of a culture change, some of the biggest shifts i've seen is between Bristol where i live near, and somewhere like Essex or Kent, rather than Bristol and Glasgow or Perth!
Casual googling (the BBC) says that just 1% of the drug deaths in Scotland are hard-core long term users
really? That sounds unlikely, it almost implies hard-core long term users are immune to drug death?
I do wonder if, when different areas have wildly different drug death rates if the statistics are robust. Eg are secondary causes of death consistent from area to area?
Maybe a party that was less concerned in economic nationalism (Scottish ferries for Scottish fowk) would have been less likely to get sucked into propping up and nationalising a shipyard at massive expense? It’s saved a few jobs at the cost of making everyone else’s jobs more heavily taxed.
i don’t think the opposition parties were lining up to say it was a bad idea were they?
It’s a weird argument to say “well, you shouldn’t hold parties to account for their failures in government because other people might have done better or worse”.
no but political hindsight is easy… yet I still don’t hear many other people proposing solutions!
There’s no culture of accountability within the SNP. Let’s hope the electorate brings it from outside next time around…
I’d welcome it if any of the alternatives could present something other than SNP baaaad as their policy!
It’s still remarkable that the SNP are still likely to hold onto Government (within a minority coalition) given the institutional bias within the mainstream media. You also cannot ignore the impact of Westminster government policy, particularly austerity, Brexit and the failure to regulate privatised utilities.
Scotland is a nett producer of electricity, much of it from renewable sources but we pay the highest bills because electricity prices are pegged against the price of gas and we have to pay increased standing charges for the failure of a deregulated market.
The GDP is Islay, population 3,300, is greater than Birmingham, population 1.1m and yet 75% of that money bypasses the island to the Treasury’s coffers.
The drugs death statistics are a great stick for unionists to beat the Scottish government with. So genuine question for unionists what is it they do in Wales or England that we don’t do in Scotland to reduce drug deaths?
“It’s still remarkable that the SNP are still likely to hold onto Government (within a minority coalition)”
Thats easy, there’s a hardcore of Independence supporters of around 30%, if they turn out, the SNP get in in most seats.
“ Scotland is a nett producer of electricity, much of it from renewable sources but we pay the highest bills because electricity prices are pegged against the price of gas.. “
And that is an utter scandal throughout the UK. Everyone is paying higher costs because of this stupid pathetic decision to pay the highest price (gas) to produce electricity. And Labour ,afaiaa, have not mentioned that they will change this terrible Law/Act when they get into power. It’d be the perfect way to reduce electric bills, and finally reduce gas use, as it will cost far more to use it. Do the UK Government get a large tax feed from North Sea gas still, thus reducing their incentive to reduce gas use? And which of the UK parties are still in the pockets of the oil/gas giants? Just the Tories, or are Labour there as well?
"The GDP is Islay, population 3,300, is greater than Birmingham, population 1.1m and yet 75% of that money bypasses the island to the Treasury’s coffers.”
Whisky presumably? I do find it hard to believe that, or is it, as the population is so small, a large exporter makes the population have a large GDP / earnings per Islander? So per head the figure is high, but the total sums are nowhere near what Birmingham produces?
"So genuine question for unionists what is it they do in Wales or England that we don’t do in Scotland to reduce drug deaths?"
Why is that only a question for unionists? Isn't that a question the Scottish Government should be asking?
If the underlying conditions in Scotland and Wales are the same, but the policies and delivery differ, then it's got to be the policies or the delivery, and evidently the Scottish Government is doing worse than its counterparts in Wales. Or is there something fundamentally different about Scotland's population than Wales's population that makes them significantly more susceptible to opiate addiction and drugs-related death? Seems very unlikely to me.
"I do find it hard to believe that, or is it, as the population is so small, a large exporter makes the population have a large GDP / earnings per Islander?"
It is hard to believe because it is complete and utter bollocks.
It's a small island which is a base for a massive industry with huge exports. How much the island benefits from that industry is questionable.
So far as drug deaths go I do not believe any of our governments are excelling themselves.
The notion that opiates or street vallies are confined to glasgow or the central belt is daft, they are all over the place.
We cant even be sure the stats are being measured in the same way so comparisons may not be valid
Devi Shridar :Yet again, we in Scotland have the lowest life expectancy in western Europe. Here’s how to improve it
That's...the same article that's in the OP. Deprivation explains the different outcomes within Scotland and England (Pollokshields vs Govan), but it doesn't explain the different outcomes between Scotland and England. In fact, as has been mentioned above, the rate of poverty across Scotland is slightly lower than in England, and the rate of child poverty is significantly lower. So why are the drug addiction and drug death rates so much worse in Scotland than in England?
PCA
as has been explained. The improvement in poverty rates will take a generation to take effect and drug policy is a reserved matter and steps the Scottish government wanted to take as a harm reduction approach were vetoed by the tories. Several steps proven to reduce deaths
But don't let the truth get in the way of your snp slagging 😜
But don’t let the truth get in the way of your snp slagging 😜
Which is why I asked very early on what they want the "Union" to look like, since this is all under the their Union.
Zero response from them all.
Looks like the Greens have left the Scottish Government coalition.
"Left" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there...
Which is why I asked very early on what they want the “Union” to look like, since this is all under the their Union.
Surely the issue is that giving more power to a Scottish government was supposed to make things better. Arguably it hasn’t so what would be the point of Independence? I think it’s easy to accept that the UK as it is has problems. The question is how do you solve it. It’s a bit like Brexit: The EU is far from perfect. Does leaving make things better?
Looks like the Greens have left the Scottish Government coalition
Best to say they walked out. They are trying to be Green after all.
what is it they do in Wales or England that we don’t do in Scotland to reduce drug deaths?
The emphasis of drug policy in Scotland is on harm reduction, the emphasis is Wales and England on the other hand is more focussed on rehabilitation and recovery.
It's wrong to say that the fault of increased death rate falls to Westminster, the divergence in policy in Scotland is a devolved matter. The system is Scotland has reduced the emphasis on the moral aspect of drug taking and relies on the drug taker's willingness to engage with support to give up on their own, critics of this essentially take the view that this approach does little to actually help addicts becasue it emphasises addiction is something to be managed rather than overcome.
Personally I can see what the SNP were trying to achieve, remove the stigma of drug taking and reducing the harm of illegal drugs and replacing them with safer (state administered) alternatives. The experience in Scotland has actually been that the harm of addiction is a more pressing need than harm reduction policies can achieve especially when routes to recovery and rehabilitation have been reduced or in some cases removed all together.
Edit: I'm not in any way suggesting that drug policies in England/Wales are some sort of shining beacon of success, they are not. E/W still has some of the highest rates of drug taking in western Europe, the record is nothing to crow about. I think that with some corrections, the Scottish system would probably yield better results as the experience of similar policies in other European countries has shown.
as has been explained. The improvement in poverty rates will take a generation to take effect and drug policy is a reserved matter and steps the Scottish government wanted to take as a harm reduction approach were vetoed by the tories. Several steps proven to reduce deaths
But don’t let the truth get in the way of your snp slagging 😜
You're just repeating the same thing you did before, and it still doesn't stand up to reason. You could argue that improvements aren't happening solely because the Scottish Government doesn't have the power to legislate on Misuse of Drugs Act, and that's the only thing left to do thay will have an effect.
But that is somewhat implausible because criminal drugs law is just one important factor among many, and it doesn't explain why the drug addiction and drug death rates are already so much worse in Scotland than in other parts of the UK that have exactly the same drugs laws (as @nickc pointed out) and worse levels of poverty (as you have alluded to).
The sources are all above...
Which is why I asked very early on what they want the “Union” to look like, since this is all under the their Union.
I don't see what drugs deaths and drug addiction rates in Scotland under the Scottish National Party have to do with the pluses or minuses of the Union. It would be an abject failure if a unionist party were in power in Scotland and responsible. Not everything is about the Union. Why are those high rates in comparison to similar populations elsewhere a topic that only unionists should care about? It's a weird suggestion.
I'm not really interested in the independence vs union discussion as it's perennial and stagnant, and I think it's odd and disingenuous that the SNP's most hardy want to explain every situation as a failure of the union. Salmond stitched up ferry procurement - that's the Union's fault. Huge drugs problems and inequity in health outcomes within Scotland - that's the Union's fault. Sturgeon's husband nicked again - that's the Union's fault. Mrs Miggins dropped her messages on the zebra crossing - it's perfidious Albion again!
PCA - you might be right and the difference is down to access to rehab and culture of dealing with addicts. It is surprising that a fairly subtle distinction has such a stark contrast. So I did a little digging on what constitutes a drug death in Scotland v England. I need to do some actual paid work now - but if I have picked it up right - there are two categories:
- all deaths where any drug, including prescribed medications or over the counter pain killers contributed to the death
- deaths where drug misuse (ie illegal drugs) were a factor.
it appears that the first is consistently measured across the U.K. and Scotland is much worse than the rest. The second is not directly comparable between constituent parts of the U.K.
now I’m not saying Scotland doesn’t have a drug problem - it absolutely does (and as someone says that’s not unique to Glasgow or even the big cities). BUT before we bash the government on either side for drugs death inconsistencies are we sure that the anomaly is mainly dealing in street drugs rather than mental health related overdoses (and of course street drugs and MH are not entirely separate issues anyway).
so I come back to my earlier question- are we even measuring the same thing, and add a supplementary question - if we are, do we know what we are measuring?
https://www.gov.scot/publications/national-mission-drugs-annual-monitoring-report-2022-2023/pages/4/
It's all in section 4.3.1. This is the data to which the article in the OP and @somafunk 's post refers.
Is drug usage higher here than in England or Wales or just that deaths are higher? I'd strongly suspect drug usage is much higher. I can't find the article but there was a report a while ago that Glasgow had the highest rate of people combining drugs, mainly cocaine and ecstasy. They love a sesh up here. I've long suspected a lot of it is driven by the grey miserableness for a good chunk of the year.
A bit old but clear I think
https://theferret.scot/ffs-explains-scottish-drug-deaths-compare-uk-eu/
What the hell is going on here? I was at a government environment conference last year and one of the top civil servants presenting effectively held his head in his hands and pled with his audience and said "our government has said we're in a climate crisis, but no one is acting like we're in a crisis".
12 months later and we've now scrapped the climate targets (achievable or otherwise at this point, should have tried harder earlier) and booted out the one party that cares from government, a few weeks after introducing an agricultural payment policy that's worse for the environment than England's (it disregards it entirely!). The SNP risk losing a lot of their left wing voters here. This is significantly more important than drug deaths.
Tories, Labour and Lib Dems all apparently supporting a no-confidence vote in Yousef Humza
The SNP risk losing a lot of their left wing voters here.
To who though - Scottish Greens? They're not going to form a majority government and none of the other parties have "greener" policies than the SNP.
VNC could come down to Ash Regan, which would be ironic.
The Scottish Greens statement is a real zinger: https://greens.scot/news/statement-snp-have-sold-out-future-generations
Apparently they're not a bunch of softly-spoken Birkenstock wearers...
"This is significantly more important than drug deaths"
To the economy yes, to the world as a whole yes.
Up to this point I don't think too many of the Scottish electorate have actually seen first hand the effects of climate change, you could argue that many of them have seen the effects of drug addiction.
"In my mind the party leadership is there to carry out the wishes of the members, not to dictate to them."
FFS that'll never catch on
In my mind the party leadership is there to carry out the wishes of the members, not to dictate to them.
And if they don't mind losing the votes of people who are in favour of what the Greens represent then that's fine.
Can't speak for anyone else but personally I'll be voting Green regardless of electoral maths after today. Before I was thinking about voting for the most likely pro-independence candidate but now it's more important I register my opinion on environmental and social issues.
If that results in a Labour MP then so be it.
I have the impression is that independence is the only thing all SNP voters agree on. When it comes to other policies it seems to be a very broad church. If the SNP leadership is bowing to pressure from the party's right wing then there's probably a decent number of left wingers and possibly centrists in the part who will feel aggrieved - just like how the party's right wing has felt ignored at other points in the past few years. In which case the leadership has to pick a direction that isn't purely coming up from the membership, or they'd never have a policy on anything except independence.
And it's not like there seems to be a strong consensus in the party about how to achieve independence either.
Surely the issue is that giving more power to a Scottish government was supposed to make things better. Arguably it hasn’t so what would be the point of Independence?
You do realise that independence & devolution are two totally different things don't you?
Devolution is a Unionist construct and it's the UK which is deciding which bits of policy it's going to let Scotland manage, and even then it'll take control when it doesn't like their approach.
What we have is what YOU want, control of Scotland by Westminster.
I wonder if the recent report sounding a note of caution around the NHS treatment of transgender young people has played a part in this - the report’s recommendations seem to be at odds with the Scottish Greens’ policy aims, and probably add some weight to those voices within the SNP of broadly the same perspective.
More generally, I’m not sure where the recent travails of the SNP leave me politically - I’m still broadly in favour of independence, as the current devolved arrangement leaves Scottish policymaking vulnerable to Westminster politicking aimed at subverting Scottish Government aspirations (whether SNP or Labour), particularly under a Tory administration. For most of my voting life, I was a solid Labour voter (and party member), but there’s nothing about the prospect of Anas Sarwar as Keir Starmer’s glove puppet that appeals to me politically (other than the absence of the current Tory government).
You do realise that independence & devolution are two totally different things don’t you?
No. Really?
but there’s nothing about the prospect of Anas Sarwar as Keir Starmer’s glove puppet that appeals to me politically (other than the absence of the current Tory government
do we think that may well be enough to see plenty of SNP voters ticking Labour when they get into the ballot box?
but there’s nothing about the prospect of Anas Sarwar as Keir Starmer’s glove puppet that appeals to me politically (other than the absence of the current Tory government
do we think that may well be enough to see plenty of SNP voters ticking Labour when they get into the ballot box?
The number of Labour MPs returned by Scottish voters does not affect the odds of a Labour or Tory government at Westminster.
I'm not sure what policies folk would be voting for if they switched to Labour, given that Anas Sarwar simply says whatever SKS tells him to, and the latter changes his mind day by day.
It's likely that a number of SNP non-voters might now rethink their position and vote SNP again next time round - especially if Yousaf decides to fall on his sword.
Oh - massive kudos to @politecameraaction for having the presience to start this thread 😂
I’m not sure where the recent travails of the SNP leave me politically...I'm still broadly in favour of independence
...which is fair enough, because the SNP is not independence, and not all of its failures and successes are a story about independence vs the union. The SNP being terrible or fantastic in a devolved government doesn't really change whether independence is a good or bad idea.
The SNP being terrible or fantastic in a devolved government doesn’t really change whether independence is a good or bad idea.
I'm not sure about that, could look at it two ways, the SNP have hardly been a party of excellence over the last decade and it's going downhill fast at the moment with everything that's coming out now combined with the current leadership. Now that could be because Westminster blocks the SNP from doing a fantastic job for Scotland (for those who believe in sunlit uplands) or Westminster is curbing the worst of the SNP and providing a solid funding base for Scotland.
At the moment though neither Westminster or Holyrood are performing particularly well. It's the same argument about Brexit, accept that despite it's issues the EU gave the UK some stability, same applies to Scotland without Westminster. I'm not sure I'd be happy with the SNP at the reins post independence.
I think the current state of the SNP does reflect badly on the idea of independence as well, independence and the SNP are intrinsically linked.
I don't understand what happens if Humza loses a vote of no confidence. The other parties don't want to form a coalition government and any minority government would be too weak to achieve anything the SNP didn't want. So does that mean elections?
I think the current state of the SNP does reflect badly on the idea of independence as well, independence and the SNP are intrinsically linked.
Again, Scotland won't become a single party state post indy.
Is this a variation of the Johann Lamont argument that Scots are genetically incapable of governing themselves?
And really, we're trying to argue that the problems with the EU are equivalent to the problems with Westminster?
Is it like Westminster where it’s nominally a person who forms the government? So the SNP a could theoretically form a government under a different leader?
