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what other possible reason would it need a different immigration policy?.scotroutes - Member
SD-253 » you haven't answered the question why does Scotland need immigrants from outside the EU?
Who has said it needs immigrants specifically from outside the EU?
Scotland needs a different immigration policy because the population of working age is shrinking and the elderly population is growing.
I don't believe you, if you did you would understand just how badly effected the working class are by mass immigration. AND wages which are far below £6.31 an hour. My wages? I live of you I have a Army disability pension. So I can only gain from mass immigration but I have morals. I don't like to see people working 12 hours a day 6 days a week to get the equivalent of what you get for 36 hour week.
Care to show any proof immigration leads to lower wages?
As already pointed out recent studies have shown immigrants are net contributors to the economy and we (possibly) have more people leaving the country than coming in.
People working for less than minimum wage is not just down to immigration is it? just because people are allowed into the country doesn't mean nothing can be done to stop them working illegally...
. No idea what that means guessing it means working class scum who doesn't know his place? Forgive me if I got that wrong!
Being the oracle of the working class I'm surprised you don't understand a working class word when you see one! 😆
as per the rest of the UK and for that matter the whole of the EU. So what the hell are you talking about? Why make up excuses for leaving the union? Just be honest,is that within your ability?gordimhor - Member
Scotland needs a different immigration policy because the population of working age is shrinking and the elderly population is growing.
I support independence because I want better government for Scotland none of the unionist parties offer that.
Why does Scotland want different immigration policy from the UK? It's not so much because we have different immigration needs than the UK. It's more because UK immigration policy isn't actually designed to satisfy the UK's needs- it's headlines and buzzwords first and last.
The major difference is that the Scottish electorate seem a bit less easily pleased by this sort of thing, we're more in favour of immigration policy based on sanity.
I believe its called supply and demand! I am ignoring the main supporters of immigration the Labour party saying exactly that..wiggles - Member
Care to show any proof immigration leads to lower wages?
only if you are selective with the statistics Boston is struggling to supply medical care for vast increase in immigrants. Schools have to teach children to speak English before they can teach them normally. Clearly there is an increase in costs or alternatively the British born children are loosing out. There's always this assumption that immigrants will stay in the UK and continue to pay high taxes and be net contributers thats assuming they are (they are not). Why would they do this? Once there own country catches up economically they will be off. Leaving us with more schools, hospitals etc than we need.As already pointed out recent studies have shown immigrants are net contributors to the economy and
wow you must be the only person who believes that. And please tell me why the "books should balance"we (possibly) have more people leaving the country than coming in.
actually that is entirely the cause when we were short of Labour wages went up again supply and demand. AND I was not aware I was talking about illegal immigrants, where did I mention them? But as you brought it up it does appear that there is nothing that can be done to stop them working illegally BUT I doubt they are the main contributers to the working class being spat on by the middle class. No that is down to people who support mass immigration. Oh well at least your Labour party has garunteed its self lots of extra votes!People working for less than minimum wage is not just down to immigration is it? just because people are allowed into the country doesn't mean nothing can be done to stop them working illegally...
Cheers Northwind you got that right!I have no evidence to back this up with but I really believe a lot of people currently supporting Ukip on immigration would change their mind if other mainstream parties would try to take on the issues rather than weeping and wailing about how awful the people supporting ukip or complaining about immigration are, currently the whole immigration debate is driven by The Daily Mail/ Daily Express and other right wing media,th e mainstream parties have left the ground open to con men like Nigel Farage etc
Youre right about Boston situation SD-253 but it is you who is being selective with statistics. The Boston situation is not repeated throughout the UK. As for the real reason wages have fallen so far behind inflation, I reckon the culprits are in the banks and in Conservative Party Head Office,
SD-253 - Memberonly if you are selective with the statistics Boston is struggling to supply medical care for vast increase in immigrants. Schools have to teach children to speak English before they can teach them normally. Clearly there is an increase in costs or alternatively the British born children are loosing out. There's always this assumption that immigrants will stay in the UK and continue to pay high taxes and be net contributers thats assuming they are (they are not). Why would they do this? Once there own country catches up economically they will be off. Leaving us with more schools, hospitals etc than we need.
But it has been proven that (recent) immigrants do make a net contribution.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24813467
we (possibly) have more people leaving the country than coming in.
wow you must be the only person who believes that. And please tell me why the "books should balance"
OK I worded that wrong, currently more people are coming than going but overall there are more brits living overseas than immigrants living in the UK.
People working for less than minimum wage is not just down to immigration is it? just because people are allowed into the country doesn't mean nothing can be done to stop them working illegally...
actually that is entirely the cause when we were short of Labour wages went up again supply and demand. AND I was not aware I was talking about illegal immigrants, where did I mention them? But as you brought it up it does appear that there is nothing that can be done to stop them working illegally BUT I doubt they are the main contributes to the working class being spat on by the middle class. No that is down to people who support mass immigration. Oh well at least your Labour party has garunteed its self lots of extra votes!
You said people are working for 12 hours a day 6 days a week for less than what someone else earns in a normal working week, so therefore that < minumum wage = illegal. Nothing to do with their immigration status. Obviously illegal immigration is not a good thing so there is no point arguing over that. I love how you know who I vote for without me ever mentioning any political party 😉
. Correct all the news is supplied by the Daily Mail nobody listens to the BBC? Which has admitted that it is biassed in favour of immigrants. I expect the Mails readership probably amounts to 5% of the population all of whome receive news from the BBC as well..gordimhor - Member
Cheers Northwind you got that right!I have no evidence to back this up with but I really believe a lot of people currently supporting Ukip on immigration would change their mind if other mainstream parties would try to take on the issues rather than weeping and wailing about how awful the people supporting ukip or complaining about immigration are, currently the whole immigration debate is driven by The Daily Mail/ Daily Express and other right wing media,th e mainstream parties have left the ground open to con men like Nigel Farage etc
Not illegal if you make them self employed or you give them 12 hours worth of parcels to deliver in 8 hours. The recent tv programme followed delivery drivers being paid for 8 hours still working after 14 hours. Again supply and demand the influx of legal immigrants has resulted in pressure on working class wages.... Are you seriously denying that?
I do not believe that the BBC has "admitted" being in favour of immigrants. However I will loudly applaud if it has.
So supply and Demand are not a factor in the Labour market? Drugs are bad for you!!.gordimhor - Member
Youre right about Boston situation SD-253 but it is you who is being selective with statistics. The Boston situation is not repeated throughout the UK. As for the real reason wages have fallen so far behind inflation, I reckon the culprits are in the banks and in Conservative Party Head Office,
yes supply [i]AND[/i] demand... but as mentioned if the bankers(not just them) hadn't sent us into a recession then there would be a lot more demand for workers than there is now.
I feel this has now gone somewhat off topic... especially as we all seem to be arguing against each other despite agreeing over the original question.
Biased in its news reporting of immigration..gordimhor - Member
I do not believe that the BBC has "admitted" being in favour of immigrants. However I will loudly applaud if it has.
Have I got this right you support bias in a news broadcastor or you support bias in news broadcasters who support your views? The BBC is paid by the taxpayer I would have thought only facists etc would support bias by a state broadcastor.
I believe unemployment is getting close to pre recession figures and the working classes wages are continueing to fall. How can you not see that any increase in demand for Labour will be filled by immigration and not by higher wages??wiggles - Member
yes supply AND demand... but as mentioned if the bankers(not just them) hadn't sent us into a recession then there would be a lot more demand for workers than there is now,
but unemployment figures improving doesn't mean we are as well off as we were before the recession does it? just because people have jobs doesn't they are as (comparatively) well paid, due to inflation, pay freezes etc.
I'm not saying immigration will not effect increased demand for labour but isn't that pretty much always the case? It's not like immigration is a recent thing.
Still no evidence that the BBC
has admitted that it is biassed in favour of immigrants.
I would gladly support the BBC in being biased in favour of immigrants if that meant taking a stance against those parts of the media pedalling lies and promoting racial/ethnic/religous prejudice and hatred.
"Konabunny The whole aim of coalition immigration policy has been to reduce net immigration. The article in the FT says that a policy allowing more immigration would be an aid to economic growth in Scotland. The Scottish government has set population growth targets which it will not achieve because of aUK immigration policy which takes no account of the situation in Scotland."
That's great - but that's not what those words you quoted say.
I think the idea that there is a cosy immigrant-welcoming consensus in Scotland about which everyone can be smug is misplaced. The shit will hit the fan once the focus of the Soottish Daily Mail changes from anti-English hysteria to anti-immigrant hysteria.
Its because the BBC tries to provide a fair coverage for all points of view in its news and current affairs that lead to it being accused of bias.
PS I will still be able to watch the BBC in an independent Scotland. 🙂
Konabunny there is more acceptance of a need for immigration in Scotland but you are right there is no cause to be smug,with the right policies and attitudes (and hard work)Scotland can avoid those problems. I have heard some pretty awful anti English remarks but they are rare and honestly come just as often from people on the Better together side. Not sure there is a Scottish Daily Mail I think they just "put a kilt on " The Daily Mail, anyway The Daily Record is bad enough.
you lot must be all up watching the cricket 🙂
Picking up on a few things what is to stop people exploiting locals to work for less than minimum wage, is it more or less of a story than doing it to immigrants?
I would have to say the BBC is a very good down the middle impartial broadcaster just against the UKIP/Murdoch side it looks left wing. Also refusing to beat the racist immigration is bad drum is a bold and brave move. It's a debate that should be held with facts but not wailing racist ranting about hoards of immigrants that don't actually exist.
Not illegal if you make them self employed or you give them 12 hours worth of parcels to deliver in 8 hours.
Actually, that is illegal, regardless of the workers' immigration status.
[b]scotroutes[/b]-member
I get paid £6.31 an hour.
Wow,somebody pays you just to post on STW?
I would have joined in more on this conversation.
But the poor people had been getting rowdy and needed beating down.
I'm middle class y'know.
You do realise that you are arguing about immigration with someone who seems to have a log in that is also a WW2 Nazi Personnel Carrier? 🙄
Knowing that would involve making an effort.
Not my forte
Also, could be a bread maker reference so let's not be prejudiced.
am I to assume you are talking about me but haven't got the back bone to say it? Calling me Nazi is yet another attempt at censorship. Either I agree with you or I am Nazi. What a sick view.winston_dog - Member
You do realise that you are arguing about immigration with someone who seems to have a log in that is also a WW2 Nazi Personnel Carrier?
Reference BBC admitting bias in favour of immigrants
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100224821/bbc-pays-175000-to-discover-it-has-a-liberal-bias-on-immigration/
Also from the Telegraph.
he BBC could have saved itself some money and just bought a copy of the Daily Mail. In November of last year, it reported that the outgoing Africa editor of the BBC World Service thinks people who vote Conservative are "lower then vermin". Four years ago, the paper revealed that the BBC's controller of drama Ben Stephenson wanted material that was more "left of centre" – the BBC's drama output being insufficiently Left-wing in his opinion. This is not a view shared by Peter Sissons, according to an article by him in the Mail in 2011. "At the core of the BBC, in its very DNA, is a way of thinking that is firmly of the Left," he wrote.
Alternatively, they could read Guilty Men, Peter Oborne and Frances Weaver's essay for the Centre for Policy Studies, in which they expose the full extent of the BBC's bias over the single currency – it was fanatically pro, obviously – or just visit this website which documents the daily instances of the BBC's out-and-out Left-wingery.
And now from the The politically correct Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/jul/03/bbc-deep-liberal-bias-immigration
assume you are talking about me
Of course I was.
I never actually called you a Nazi. I simply made an observation that your log in may be connected to military equipment that was operated by the German Army during the time of the Nazis.
Now I may be completely wrong and it may not have anything to do with military history. It may be a bread maker that floats your boat.
Don't get me wrong I am very interested in WW2 history but I have met quite a few unsavoury characters who have an unhealthy interest in Hitler and his armies and wouldn't bother my arse to discuss/argue politics with them.
By the way, the views and opinions you have expressed on here do not make you a Nazi by any means, IMO.
Also you don't have to be a Nazi to be a racist, fascist or just a bigot.
so were implying I was Nazi.winston_dog - Member
assume you are talking about meOf course I was.
on what basis would you assume I had any interest in Nazi equipment? Is there such a thing as Nazi equipment? Commonsense says German army equipment unless you are saying they something just for Nazi/SS troops?I never actually called you a Nazi. I simply made an observation that your log in may be connected to military equipment that was operated by the German Army during the time of the Nazis.
Again why did you make the assumption in the first place. Sorry but you have no chance of censoring my viewsNow I may be completely wrong
I do have a bread maker I had to change my name as unlike other people I used my full name and was not ashamed of what I wrote on here but as my name is extremely rare bigots on here were able to guess my email address and I got extremely offensive e-mail. The instruction book for my bread maker just happened to be in front of me when I changed it.
I have no intention to censor your views.
why did you make the assumption
Because it seems more likely than an interest in domestic kitchen appliances.
[img] 
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I'm sorry but what is you actual point here? You are doing the big cut/paste/link thing and getting very excited.
SD-253 That article quoted by yourself and in toby youngs blog refers to the situation in 2004,10 years ago. Still I note that one middle class left of centre politically correct media outlet is mildly critical of what you claim is another middle class left of centre politically correct media outlet.
The point for this thread would surely be that people in an independent Scotland would still have access to the BBC,The Guardian and all the rest of the media including The Telegraph.
edit
winston_dog - Member
I have no intention to censor your views.why did you make the assumption
Because it seems more likely than an interest in domestic kitchen appliances.
You still have failed explain where the Nazi bit comes from. And merely mentioning Nazis in a blog like this is as near as you can get to calling me one. All be it a rather cowardly way.
You still have failed explain where the Nazi bit comes from. And merely mentioning Nazis in a blog like this is as near as you can get to calling me one. All be it a rather cowardly way.
The simple link would be your stance on immigration and the coincidence in your user name...
I guess that we already have a problem if the "ideal" population of these islands is around 30million.
We can either find some way of reducing the current population - perhaps via a mass euthenasia scheme - or expand the area of the country by invading a close neighbour to create some more "living space".
gordimhor - Member
SD-253 That article quoted by yourself and in toby youngs blog refers to the situation in 2004,10 years ago. Still I note that one middle class left of centre politically correct media outlet is mildly critical of what you claim is a middle class left of centre media outlet.
The point for this thread would surely be that people in an independent Scotland would still have access to the BBC,The Guardian and all the rest of the media including The Telegraph.
Somehow this blog on Scottish independence became a blog on immigration, which is nothing to do with independence. But the supporters decided to throw it in as way of ambushing people so that they can call those against racist. Also there was little or no reason for independence other than a hatred of the English. I am personally in favour if we don't have to continue to subsidise Scotland. But it appears thats not whats going to happen. It appears we are expected to continue to do so
I guess that we already have a problem if the "ideal" population of these islands is around 30million.
Sounds crowded 22.8mil over here
[img]
[/img]
arhh now get it if you are against mass immigration you are a Nazi gotcha.mikewsmith - Member
You still have failed explain where the Nazi bit comes from. And merely mentioning Nazis in a blog like this is as near as you can get to calling me one. All be it a rather cowardly way.
The simple link would be your stance on immigration and the coincidence in your user name...
That map is just wrong. Scotland placed at tropical Darwin!
. Arhh another attempt at censorship by calling me a Nazi. By the way I have never said the ideal population of the UK is 30 million that well known Nazi Richard Attenborough said it!
scotroutes - Member
I guess that we already have a problem if the "ideal" population of these islands is around 30million.
We can either find some way of reducing the current population - perhaps via a mass euthenasia scheme - or expand the area of the country by invading a close neighbour to create some more "living space".
I wonder what the habitable area of Australia is compared to the desert? And how many people it could support, in terms of arable land and water?
Going to pub will be back to read some more "you are a Nazi" well implied you are as Nazi not actually stated
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molgrips - Member
I wonder what the habitable area of Australia is compared to the desert? And how many people it could support, in terms of arable land and water?
About right now I reckon, same as America 🙂
Though the UK does need a re-balancing of it's population due to the excessive numbers of old people. I'd replace them with as many good hard working people I could find. Nationality irrelevant. As my experiences in Oz have shown me it won't be long before the call "Funky Immigrants" at anyone who doesn't fit in.
PS can find nothing on the first 3 pages of Google which brings anything up about Nazis and my user name. Only bread maker and highway 253.
Sorry to side track the thread. SD-253, I am thinking of buying a breadmaker. What are your thoughts on that particular model? Keen to discover if it does a satisfactory bagel. Used to have one but bagels came out dry and crunchy.
sd253 you might want to read this
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/anti-immigrant-hype-must-stop-snp-tell-london-politicians.2309980
One of the reasons to vote yes would be for a chance to have a sensible immigration policy based on facts,rather than scare stories given the UK govt doesnt seem able to provide one.
David Cameron said there would be no reason to think Scotland could not be a successful independent state.
“Supporters of independence will always cite examples of small, independent and thriving economies, such as Switzerland and Norway. It would be wrong to suggest that Scotland could not be another such successful, independent country” - David Cameron (April 2007)
Not sure why you think the rest of the UK will be subsidising Scotland.
From memory, the 253 has the Raisin Beep function.
From Google 😉
Scottish independence- where do you stand? « Singletrack Forum
singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-independence-where.../20?
1 day ago - 13 posts - ?2 authors
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AH Scotroutes see you've linked to another of those trendy left of centre politically correct media outlets.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/just-checking/ is an alternative view
Aye - but the original news page was from a "quality Scottish Sunday newspaper".
"quality Scottish Sunday newspaper".sorry I thought it was from Scotland on Sunday 🙂
SD-253 - MemberBy the way I have never said the ideal population of the UK is 30 million
You did, though. I mean, you really did. No messing, no argument, no flapping around and pretending I'm calling you a nazi.
SD-253 - MemberHave I got this right Scotland wants more immigrants? Are you real? Or is it that Scotland wants more non English immigrants? I actually doubt they want or need more immigrants. I would suggest that the UK should not have a population greater than 30 million.
Well, this is somewhere between amusing and bemusing.
"quality Scottish Sunday newspaper".sorry I thought it was from Scotland on Sunday
There's only one quality Scottish newspaper. And that's the Perthshire Advertiser with such hard hitting cutting edge front page news stories as "Man probes dangerous hedge" etc etc etc
Well, this is somewhere between amusing and bemusing.
Abusing? Seems to fit.....
How could I forget the tree being cut down in a park controversy......
I see what you did there piemonster cutting edge story about hedges. No beating around the bush there!
It was actually a front page story. I don't remember the headline but the "man probes dangerous hedge" was the photo caption.
There's some proper hedge-probers on this thread. 😉
ojom - Member
From memory, the 253 has the Raisin Beep function.
Correct but most loafs just dropped the raisins/nuts in with out you haven't to rush over drop them in. Am I still on the we hate the English thread?
.winston_dog - Member
SdKfz 253
SdKfz 253 is not the same as sd-253. As matter of interest why are you so interested in "Nazi tanks"? If you imply I am racist because my username bears a slight resembles to the name of a WW2 tank where does that leave you?
Am I still on the we hate the English thread?
Nope.
Hope that helps
Go back to the pub.
.gordimhor - Member
Am I still on the we hate the English thread?Nope.
Hope that helps
Despise the English page?
No it's a love in, hating a nationality would be racist 🙂
winston_dog - Member
Go back to the pub.
Excellent (irony) answer!
I am sure it is xenophobic as we are the same race????.mikewsmith - Member
No it's a love in, hating a nationality would be racist
gordimhor - Member
winston_dog - Member
mikewsmith - Member
Now this question is not meant to have a ANY negative connotation attached to it, it is an honest question. How are you able to post at any time of the day? I assume? That you are working? I am out of the labour market and have been for sometime. Do you all have office jobs which allow you to post at work? AGAIN nothing nasty just an honest question.
It's 21:50, I'm half watching a film and drinking a beer. Anything else?
mikewsmith - Member
It's 21:50, I'm half watching a film and drinking a beer. Anything else?
You took that badly, it was an honest question not a snide one.