Beer you say?
Yup,my sentiments too, fair enough. You think the ferry fiasco is bad for the isles, much worse off in Orkney. Kicker for them as well they don't get the RET. Amongst other issues I think they are correct to explore better options of governance for the inhabitants. Could result in being offered incentives to remain also.
Orkney beer you say? Yep, fair enough.
@kormoran - my favourite winter beer. As of yesterday I added a another favourite summer beer to my list.
Edit: and I'm staying next door to the brewery for my holidays in the next few weeks.
oh yes, Dark Island is the Lord of the Isles. Winter by the fireside, beer perfection!
Drink!
I am a big fan of the Orkney islands and spend most summers there but this is a non story about one councillor. To the best of my knowledge the RET has been held back over the years by Pentland Ferries. The Stromness ferry is leagues ahead of any Camac ferry.
I live in Cumbria and would love to have a hospital and bus links like those on the Orkney mainland and other islands
It's the same basic story as the recurring shetland ones isn't it? ie "Orkney could become independent or leave UK, this would totally DESTROY scottish independence, except that basically nobody wants to do it"
I think they want to become a territory of Norway, which is hardly independent, as I guess they realize as an independent island they cannot stand on their own two feet.
Basically they want more funding, and think Norway will do that for them.
(As I understand it)
The councillor in question is seeking approval for the costs of a study into the options. I doubt he'll even get the go ahead for that.
Another piss’n wind from the Unionist media. So it’s now OK for Orkney to cede from Scotland but not for Scotland to leave the UK?
Besides, rubbish research because Norway didn’t gain independence from Sweden until 1905 and prior to that everything was part of Denmark as were all the Scottish islands, the Isle of Man as well as bits of Argyll, Kintyre and Ardnamurchan.
WTF would Norway want to take the Orkneys on?
Zero benefit for a country which is 95% dependant on O&G for it's wealth, at the end of the O&G era.
Doesn't Norway have like $1.5 trillion in the bank? I think they will be fine when the O&G runs out!
That said I don't think they would be interested in buying Orkney!
That said I don’t think they would be interested in buying Orkney!
I'm not too sure about this. Norway still has a huge fishing industry and I'm sure Orkney would improve their negotiating position with the UK and EU when it comes to fishing rights.
Orkney would almost certainly be better off under Norway. Norway generally takes maintaining its population distribution quite seriously and invests significant amounts in maintaining links and services for far flung places.
Another piss’n wind from the Unionist media. So it’s now OK for Orkney to cede from Scotland but not for Scotland to leave the UK?
This.
Population 22,000, is it just me that's old enough to remember this?
Did you do your research? Norway at this point was part of the kalmar union which although ruled by one common monarch was three different legal countries. So I assume the legal entity of Norway still owned the isles. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmar_Union
I don't know about Orkney, but Norwegian companies have made major investments in Shetland with the new windfarms and taking over and developing new fin fish farms. Some of the big pelagic boats there have strong links to Norway too.
There's long been a voice from some Shetlanders for a return to Norway.
Another piss’n wind from the Unionist media. So it’s now OK for Orkney to cede from Scotland but not for Scotland to leave the UK?
Seems more like schadenfreude.
Westminster says no.
I suppose it has to be pointed out that Orkney would not be leaving Scotland alone,but would actually be leaving the UK. Which will be quite an achievement with the UK being a union of equals which the equal parties cannot leave without the permission of the Westminster parliament.
Nothing to add other than I remember spending a week in Orkney in the early 2000s. Saw proclaimers for the first time and it was without doubt one of the best nights out I can remember…
Great fishing also…
amazing place
I thought the reason they didn’t have RET was the way it is calculated it would actually make a lot of fares more expensive? I may have misunderstood that and of course it’s possibly that RET was engineered to it would work in the west not the north.
Norway has a lot going for it, but I’m not sure many Orcadians will be too excited at their tax rates! If I was Orcadian I might be asking if IOM, Falklands, etc have a better deal than me (I genuinely don’t know) but I’m not sure I’d be quite so keen to join Norway, but of course it should be their choice (and the Norwegians).
No one I know in Norway is too bothered about the tax rates as it actually goes back into the system and is very good in my experience.
And fishing in Norway is great, having been boarded twice at gunpoint by the Norwegian navy I can safely say they look after their coastal waters far better than us.
I thought the reason they didn’t have RET was the way it is calculated it would actually make a lot of fares more expensive?
I believe that is correct for some of the inter island ferries. It was I believe held back for the Scottish mainland to Orkney due to the lack of guarantees that it was a legal process and Pentland ferries would not take the risk. Or maybe they didn't want the Stena ferry being closer in cost.
As a visitor I find the ferries to be good but the challenge for some of the closer islands such as Hoy and Rousey is that the locals lose the freedom of movement in the high season as tourists pre book cars way in advance and the ferries are small. I have actually bought the last spot on the Hoy ferry before but I handed it back when a plumber tried to book in behind me for a call out.
As a visitor I find the ferries to be good but the challenge for some of the closer islands such as Hoy and Rousey is that the locals lose the freedom of movement in the high season as tourists pre book cars way in advance and the ferries are small.
Is this the case for foot/bike as well? We are there at the end of the month and I have not booked any day out/inter island ferries...
gordimhor
I suppose it has to be pointed out that Orkney would not be leaving Scotland alone,but would actually be leaving the UK. Which will be quite an achievement with the UK being a union of equals which the equal parties cannot leave without the permission of the Westminster parliament.
I guess what's interesting is if the SNP back this.
I think "Westminster say's no" is a fairly obvious one but I'm struggling to see any argument the SNP has for independence not being equally applicable to Orkney/Shetland or even the Doric areas.
Foot and bike is no problem it is the car spaces that get filled up fast. I don't think you wold put anybody out by booking them if you wanted the security
I’m struggling to see any argument the SNP has for independence not being equally applicable to Orkney/Shetland or even the Doric areas.
I don't think they are talking about full independence.
My argument against leaving would be, if you really want to go then you have to go but at least wait and see what life in independent Scotland is like.
Even post-indy Scotland would struggle to offer what Norway could offer. Norway has been independent for over 100 years, 60 years of which they were putting 95% of all the oil money in a piggy bank.
If Orkney has the chance it should go to Norway. Hell, if Scotland has the chance it should go to Norway.
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak's official spokesperson said: "First and foremost there is no mechanism for the conferral of Crown Dependency or Overseas Territory status on any part of the UK.
"We have no plans to change the devolution settlement we are supporting Orkney with £50m to grow the economic prosperity of the Scottish islands, through the islands deal.
"But the government's position is that the UK is stronger united."
as a former resident of Stromness now living in Scandinavia I think this is a superb idea
@stevextc I agree the current version of the SNP has very much been a centralising government. I think they're wrong and have been trying to change that. No sign that anyone is listening to me though
@BruceWee Hell, if Scotland has the chance it should go to Norway.
What a football team we'd have -Scotland, but with Haaland.
And Norway could leap from 102nd in the World Rugby rankings to 5th!
I honestly have no idea what either one of us are waiting for.
… Pentland ferries would not take the risk. Or maybe they didn’t want the Stena ferry being closer in cost.
yeah these things are rarely quite as clear cut as often presented!
As a visitor I find the ferries to be good but the challenge for some of the closer islands such as Hoy and Rousey is that the locals lose the freedom of movement in the high season as tourists pre book cars way in advance and the ferries are small. I have actually bought the last spot on the Hoy ferry before but I handed it back when a plumber tried to book in behind me for a call out.
but ironically those ferries are operated by the council (iirc) so the local powers could devise mechanisms where say only 75% of spaces can be prebooked, or you need some sort of “local” card to book certain slots at certain times etc. I’m sure it’s an inconvenience to people, and people who don’t directly get their income from tourism probably find it more so, but it’s a big part of the economy and without tourism many of these ferries would not be run on the current scale/frequency. It probably creates a bigger long term adverse effect if tourists were to stop travelling beyond the Orkney mainland.
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak’s official spokesperson said: “if we talk about this, which is pie in the sky today, it will distract from the fact inflation is not falling like he promised, the nhs is still ****ed and his small boats plan isn’t working”
I fixed that for you ^^
gordimhor
@stevextc I agree the current version of the SNP has very much been a centralising government. I think they’re wrong and have been trying to change that. No sign that anyone is listening to me though
I think centralisation is the big ticket item... and that covers a lot depending how you look at it but it also involves a lot of selective history/culture in the justification. (Separate people/country/language) whereas it should surely be about the future and that's all irrelevant?
Looking from the outside for example I don't see any acknowledgement of Erse or Doric as equal languages to Scots Gaelic or traditionally different cultures or borders at multiple points in time.
I'm not saying they must do those things... I'm just saying they are somewhat backward thinking things and focussed on a selective past.
If they want to use those arguments to gain independence from the UK then those arguments are equally, if not more valid for parts of present day Scotland. It could be debated what legal right James VI had over even the Western Isles or what that even means. James VI may have claimed the Western Isles but was far from actually ruling them peacefully.
It does come down to centralisation though... at least that is the most common complaint I've heard and the most forwards looking.
BruceWee
I don’t think they are talking about full independence.
My argument against leaving would be, if you really want to go then you have to go but at least wait and see what life in independent Scotland is like.
/blockquote>With the caveats of addressing centralisation that is more forwards looking (IMHO as an outside observer) than arguments of race or historical culture
