[Closed] Scottish independence - hmm, a thought

Who cares, but they should time it carefully and slam those borders shut and arm the barricades next time Rangers play in Manchester.

I think that place of birth should be the main condition. Exceptions will be made for folk who were not born here, but are good on bikes.

But who will decide what is meant by good on a bike, and then test applicants

DNA test. Anyone who's dna can't be matched to a clan gets booted out.
Excluding awesome bike riders obviously.

but they should time it carefully and slam those borders shut and arm the barricades next time Rangers play in Manchester

I wouldn't have thought that you'd have been so keen to keep the knuckledraggers* after last time. Still if you want them then they are all yours.

*In the interests of balance I should point out that I have the same opinion of both sets of old firm fans.

[i]Anyone who's dna can't be matched to a clan gets booted out.[/i]

ah the ginger haired master race

b r - Member
So if Scotland does become independent, how will it be decided who is a Scot

Even now I can't find anyone who can give a good definition of being Scottish - guess it's going to be a 'postcode republic' with anyone eligible to vote in elections being classed as Scottish.

Anyone who's dna can't be matched to a clan gets booted out.

Ahh - The Scottish National Socialist Party.

[i]Even now I can't find anyone who can give a good definition of being Scottish - guess it's going to be a 'postcode republic' with anyone eligible to vote in elections being classed as Scottish. [/i]

It was actually a serious question, so thanks for at least one serious answer.

Now, TJ what are your thoughts?

Scotland has a Commonwealth Games team, there must be some criteria over and above "too crap for the English team".

And there are some rather antipodean tones in some of the Scottish Rugby team, say no more.

Now, TJ what are your thoughts?

So it was not a serious question, you were trying to antagonise another forum user!

I suspect that, as with the 1998 Anglo-Irish (Good Friday) treaty, anyone would be able to choose their own citizenship based on where they felt their affinity lay.

So it was [s]not[/s] a serious question, you were trying to [s]antagonise another[/s] find out the opinion of the most vocal forum user on this topic!

FTFY.

Scotland has a Commonwealth Games team, there must be some criteria over and above "too crap for the English team".

That's certainly the criteria we used for selecting Chris Hoy 😆

Does anyone think the majority of Scottish people will actually vote on independence?

My worry is that the people who are passionate about it will vote yes, and the people who dont really want it wont bother voting. Also opening up the vote to 16/17 year olds, not sure about that either.

Can anyone link to an unbiased review of the pros and cons of Scotland becoming independent? I think I am against it, but havnt heard the full arguement (not at all like STW, posting on something an not knowing the facts eh?)

BTW I am half english/Scottish living in Scotland.

Anyone who cannot directly link their heritage back to Mel Gibson is oot!

Anyone who cannot directly link their heritage back to Mel Gibson is oot!

I believe the test will be to see if you can name all "The Broons"

What about duel passports then?

NO! If they want independance they'll have to live with the consequnces!

"Does anyone think the majority of Scottish people will actually vote on independence?"

I'm kinda intrigued as to what it has to Dave anyway as there is only one Conservative MP for all of Scotland! That's not really democracy in my book.

That's the West Lothian Question in reverse!

Will we still be called the "United Kingdom"?

What about duel passports then?

Pistols or Rapiers?

That's not really democracy in my book.

[b]You[/b] didn't seem too bothered when [b]we[/b] had a Scottish PM settling laws on English issues, that he would have lost the vote on without relying on Scottish MP's

In Scotland you are eligible to vote if you are 18 or over and are either a British citizen, a Commonwealth citizen with leave to stay in the UK, or a citizen of the Irish Republic.

British citizens living abroad cannot vote in the Scottish parliamentary elections, but can vote in the referendum.

Citizens of other European countries that have registered to vote in Scotland can vote in the Scottish parliamentary elections, but not in the referendum.

"the referendum" here refers to last years AV referendum to decide the voting system that elects MPs to Westminster

HoratioHufnagel - Member
Will we still be called the "United Kingdom"?

The United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland - why not....

...otherwise imagine the cost of rebranding everything currently with "UK" in it's name

Will we be able to moan about all the Scottish immigrants taking our jobs, homes and women in the SE?

Call-me-Dave is doing what he always does. Says one thing, does the polar opposite. All this 'preserve the union' guff is just a front. He'd desperately like to see the back of Scotland, thus ensuring a Tory electoral hegemony in Englans for EVER! [b]MUHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA[/b]

If Scotland gets independence, expect the 'Independence for the North of England' campaign to start within 3.6 seconds of the result being announced

Not if we construct a proper minefield and barbed wire border along Hadrians Wall and refuse to let the b*gg*rs in through other Points Of Entry...

Again I cannot find hard info on ths but from waht has been said in the past:

For a referendum it would be the people eligible to vote in Scottish elections now (plus 16 and 17 yr olds)

Citizenship - the people of Scotland are those who live here and those with strong ties to the country.

Would you have to do a citizenship test Uncle Jezza?

NOpe - I live here.

Can you imagine a Scottish Citizenship Test?

Examiner "When was the Act of Uinion?"

Potential citizen "You askin' me pal? You want a fight?"

Examiner "Passed! Welcome to Scotland!"

those with strong ties to the country

Define "Strong"

Could be about a quarter of the continental United States

[img] [/img]

For a referendum it would be the people eligible to vote in Scottish elections now (plus 16 and 17 yr olds)

Why 16 and 17 yr olds? They can't vote in any other election, why should they be allowed to vote in this one? (The cynic in me has a gut feeling that they're probably more pro-independence than average...)

I've got a Scottish birth certificate by accident of birth. I think I'll go for dual nationality. You never know when thats useful.

If (claimed) Scottish citizens start returning upon independence, Alex may find himself with some serious political competition

[img] [/img]

Why 16 and 17 yr olds?

Because Salmond wants a get out clause as an excuse for the "advisory" referendum not to become "binding" if the vote doesn't come out in favour of independence.

if he win's, he'll claim there's a clear mandate for independence
if he loses, he'll claim it was only advisory and the results could not be relied upon as they did not fulfil the criteria for a binding referendum

He was born Kenyan.

He was born Kenyan.

What? TJ?

anyway, Obama is Irish!

Apparently:

[i]Mr Obama's maternal ancestor, Edward FitzRandolph, is said to have emigrated to America in the 17th Century.

According to genealogists, his ancestry can also be traced to William the Lion, who ruled Scotland from 1165 to 1214.[/i]

I can't help thinking you're being slightly presumptuous about your automatic right to citizenship Uncle Jez. You're as English as fox hunting 😉 Obama is actually more likely to get it. Do you have any Kenyan in you?

Because Salmond wants a get out clause as an excuse for the "advisory" referendum not to become "binding" if the vote doesn't come out in favour of independence.

Z11, you're even more cynical than me!

You're as English as fox hunting

What about the Welsh fox hunts, eh? RACIST! 😉

Oh...erm...fair point. In that case: he's as English as a Tory constituency fund-raising Bridge Evening in Chipping Norton 😀

binners - Member
Would you have to do a citizenship test Uncle Jezza?

Posted 27 minutes ago # Report-Post
TandemJeremy - Member
NOpe - I live here.

Posted 23 minutes ago # Report-Post

We'll be the judge of that laddie! 😀

Exactly my point Duckman! There's a hell of a presumption going on here.

He is, after all, as an English as a rolled-up-trousered Freemasons handshake between a chief constable and an over-the-drink-drive-limit local councilor. In Surrey 🙂

So if I have a Grandparents from England Scotland Wales and Yorkshire. Can I vote on Scotish seperatism.

Freedom for Yorkshire, may the truly tight rule there own desiny. HOW MUCH! (yorkshire war cry).

The South will rise again...

may the truly tight rule their own destiny.

That's what Salmond wants, too.

😈

For something "they" have apparently been wanting for the best part of 300 years, it all does seem a bit Micky McMouse...

....still no decision on who can vote, when to vote, what voting system to use and what the vote will mean - a cynic might think it was all about political posturing with no real substance, but I'm sure it's not.

a cynic might think it was all about political posturing with no real substance, but I'm sure it's not.

Of course not. If that was the case, AS would have chosen a date for the referendum that would, in his opinion, somehow stir up some sort of nationalistic feelings in Scotland.

But of course, he didn't. Did he?

Citizenship - the people of Scotland are those who live here and those with strong ties to the country.

The resident, tax paying, voting population of Scotland plus Sean Connery

Z11 - more than a grain of truth in your comments.

The whole thing strikes me as a rather sad waste of money/time. Scotland is a wonderful country and I have benefitted from a Scottish education which was superior to the one I would have received south of the wall. All we have now is lots of political mischief making that will be irrelevant to the grander scheme of things. As we have seen over the past 48 hours it will provide immense entertainment to counter the rest of reality TV, with gross hypocrisy, inconsistencies, self-serving, manipulation on all sides. But will it improve the lives of the Scots or the English/Irish/N Irish. Very doubtful. But when has that stopped politicians?

I wish they would do something about the educational apartheid though. Shame that my kids will not be able to benefit from a Scottish education.

Connery has no doubt got his cheque book ready for the campaign funds. Hey, he might even come back and live in Scotland?

The population of Scotland plus Sean Connery

Don't forget Mel

[img] [/img]

Hey, he might even come back and live in Scotland?

Yip - I'd imagine that'll happen on the same day Paul McCartney moves back to 'the Greatest City in the World' - Liverpool

I think I can manage to forget Mel

For something "they" have apparently been wanting for the best part of 300 years, it all does seem a bit Micky McMouse...

300 years? no such thing.- Scottish nationalism is a romantic movement originated by a bunch of idle toffs in the 1920's.

but I have strong ties to Scotland, I love a bottle of Glengoyne, think Haggis is the food of the gods, rate Black Isle as one of the worlds best beer brewers, absolutley love the pipes and am learning to play and constantly feel like an oppressed minority. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease can I vote.

The ignorance being quoted on here is really rather amusing. for example

CaptainFlashheart - Member

AS would have chosen a date for the referendum that would, in his opinion, somehow stir up some sort of nationalistic feelings in Scotland.

Lets see something to back this up. Its a unionist canard that the anniversary of the battle of bannockburn will be used. No one from the nationalists has ever said that and for a variety of reasons it would not be a good date.

Its so funny to see the rabid right on here attempting to justify not allowing the self determination of a people when the same folk defended the right of the Falkland islanders to self determination.

Humbug hypocrisy and cant.

Has anybody done the "Scotsman in you" joke ?

(From NZ are ye ? Do you have any Scotsman in ye ? No. Do ye want some ?)

As heard about 10 times a night when I worked in a pub by Redford Barracks and the A&SH were in.

Is anything worn under the kilt?

Nae, it's all in perfect working order!

Jezza. Serious question for you: When you've been ethnically cleansed by the newly independent locals, high on a tide of unpleasant nationalism stoked up for political purposes, which part of your native homeland do you fancy living in?

My dad is Scottish and my mum is English, so can I have a passport for each please? Potentially useful for tax purposes.

TJ - funny you bring up the Falklands again - you've still not answered the question from that thread on whether the Shetland Islanders would get the right to self determination, if they did not want to be part of an independent Scotland.

Regardless, I can't see anyone on here saying Scotland does not have a right to self determination - in fact we're all for it, and the Government of the United Kingdom seems to think that you should be given the opportunity sooner rather than later - it seems to be Alec Salmond saying that the Scottish people only have a right to self determination when he says so, and on his conditions, when the law says thats not his responsibility.

Its so funny to see the rabid right on here attempting to justify not allowing the self determination of a people when the same folk defended the right of the Falkland islanders to self determination.

It is indeed TJ, but the whole issue is humbug, hypocrisy and ....(????)

A pro-Unionist pushes for the vote and a pro-independence hides behind an advisory mandate/partial vote. Its all so bizarre. Good job the economy is in such fine fettle that our time is being spent wisely!!

Can't wait for the vote on becoming the 'independent republic of Yorkshire'

...and then Elie? A nation state if ever there was one?

Can't wait for the vote on becoming the 'independent republic of Yorkshire'

Didn't Yorkshire vote no to devolution?

Alex for PM of the UK I say. Why does he limit himself, he could show a few politicians (and us) what it means stand up for your country. I'm not a fan of seperatism/independance as it's a throw back to another age but Salmond is pretty good at his job and would better at being PM than any number of idiots that have/want the job (past and present).

z-11 why would the Shetlands be looking to cede from Scotland? Would it be because the Norwegians had control of the Islands from 850-1400? By your thinking there should also be votes in Northumbria, Mercia, East Anglia, Essex, Kent, Sussex and Wessex. Oh; and Cornwall and the Isle of Man. They all fulfil the criteria you seem to use to suggest the Shetlands are not part of Scotland.

Poor you,must be hard to see the last vestiges of Your country's colonial might dissapear into the sunset. Scotland, Wales NI...All in the next 40 years.

I know what you're saying mt. He's a clever bugger. And Shrewd. He's been running rings around everyone. Scotland have got what a lot of us want. A realistic alternative to the tired 2 party system, now there just purely to represent their vested interest friends in business

BUT... if you had a survey question 'which human being looks the most annoyingly smug, self-satisfied and generally pleased with themselves?

Then I'm afraid its between him and Piers Morgan

BUT... if you had a survey question 'which human being looks the most annoyingly smug, self-satisfied and generally pleased with themselves?

Then I'm afraid its between him and Piers Morgan

🙂

I'd look as smug as Salmond if I was up against such political numties (all parties included).

firestarter - Member
Can't wait for the vote on becoming the 'independent republic of Yorkshire'

Republic? Ian McMillan "Bard of Barnsley" for King as long as he gives us a poem a day. We could pay him in the Yorkshire beer of his choice. I'd prefer anything from The Nook (if you know it you know what I mean).

Duckman

why would the Shetlands be looking to cede from Scotland? Would it be because the Norwegians had control of the Islands from 850-1400?

Why on earth should Scotland have anything to do with the Shetlands? is it because they want the Shetlanders oil wealth?

What claim does Scotland have to that?

Why can't they have the right to self determination? If you look at the historical legal position, they have no legal ties with Scotland, by rights they should be (and were) an independent crown dependency, like the Channel Islands, and for that matter, yes, the Isle of Man.

You can't argue that Scotland has a right to self determination, and at the same time also argue that the Shetlands don't have their own right to do so - its a fundemental hypocrisy in the argument put forward by the Scottish Nationalists (TJ included)

If the Shetlanders asked for their own independence, and (rightfully) took the oil with them, where would Alec Salmonds spending plans be?

Citizenship - the people of Scotland are those who live here and those with strong ties to the country.

bloody hell, i'm scottish.

never really thought about it before.

Its so funny to see the rabid right on here attempting to justify not allowing the self determination of a people when the same folk defended the right of the Falkland islanders to self determination.

Also funny to see that you were madly arguing that the Falklanders shouldn't have self determination rights, with the only vaguely logical argument for this basis being their proximity to Argentina.

[img] [/img]

No zokes - I am perfectly prepared for the Falklands to have self determination. I never argued anything different.

But are you prepared for the Shetlanders to have [u]their own[/u] right to self determination TJ?

pass.