Scottish budget

Surely the wee little cranky is going to spend it on trying to find a way to force through Indy ref 2?

However, I do have a balancing concern that the (relatively modest) extra is spent wisely.

That's the issue really. I'd have no problem paying much more tax if it translated to getting something good out of it.
Our government, from westminster, to hollyrood, to local councils, are utterly crap stewards of that money. Getting worse too it seems, looking at the corruption of the past few years becoming more blatant.

Surely the wee little cranky is going to spend it on trying to find a way to force through Indy ref 2?

..and you wonder why people north of the border no longer want to be part of this ‘union’ - the SNP has a bigger political mandate than any other UK party and support for independence is growing despite the best endeavours of predominantly right-wing media and folks who spout their tripe.

Well I'd feel a lot better about it if we did something to tax people with wealth, not just income although we should be a lot more honest about the actual tax rates and include NI too.

There is also the point that there simply aren't enough people earing those levels of income to make a significant difference.

I had this discussion with some friends lastnight and said that I don't mind if it's spent on the likes of hospitals, education and emergency services. As mentioned above governments and local councils are utter shite at putting money where it's needed.

Well I’d feel a lot better about it if we did something to tax people with wealth, not just income although we should be a lot more honest about the actual tax rates and include NI too.

Indeed I personally would fold NI into one rate of income tax now.
I would remove a lot of the additional allowances and breaks for personal income.
I would want to get be rid of non dom status etc.
As would SNP and Greens in Scotland I believe.

However, none of this is in the Scottish parliament gift. They can vary tax, not design new ones IIRC.

Maybe a stupid question, but I work for a Scottish company but live/work in England.

I assume I still pay English tax rates?

Cutting and pasting my response in the 3.5% thread

Well having moved to Scotland 5 years ago and seen my tax burden rise as a result, I’m quite happy that:

I can get a dentist

Prescriptions are free

My daughter won’t be saddled with an outrageous student loan

My dad won’t be forced to sell his home to pay for care

Easy to forget just how bad some services in The rest of the UK have got.

Surely the wee little cranky is going to spend it on trying to find a way to force through Indy ref 2?

..and you wonder why people north of the border no longer want to be part of this ‘union’ – the SNP has a bigger political mandate than any other UK party and support for independence is growing despite the best endeavours of predominantly right-wing media and folks who spout their tripe.

this.

I believe it will raise an extra £129 million a year.
They have just spent an extra £72 million to complete the ferries.

Maybe a stupid question, but I work for a Scottish company but live/work in England.

I assume I still pay English tax rates?

Of course, as you don't benefit from Scottish taxes - obviously doesn't apply to Non-Dom's 🙂

They have just spent an extra £72 million to complete the ferries.

Truss's Govt cost us (our share) £1bn, in 43 days.

Easy to forget just how bad some services in The rest of the UK have got.

Not that great here. My wife is a teacher and teaching isn't in a great state with the gradual erosion of resource coupled with increasing expectation. Can't get a GP appointment easily and I've just had a hospital appointment for my son cancelled for the 3rd time because of lack of staff and now been punted to Glasgow in March instead of Edinburgh.

Don't mind paying for services - but the disconnect between rising taxes and lowering service does make me doubt the ability of those in charge. I have to deal with quangos enough to know that competence and efficiency are not universally high.

Surely the wee little cranky is going to spend it on trying to find a way to force through Indy ref 2?

🙄 Responded perfectly by Dovebiker
Personally I'd be delighted if they moved the border south and annexed Yorkshire. I'd happily pay more tax if it meant the SNP were in charge rather than those that currently rule in Westminster.

I'm a Scottish high-rate taxpayer, and I don't have an issue with paying taxes for Scotland that will be spent on the services & policies that we vote for - where I do have an issue is with a Govt we don't elect telling the Govt we do elect how much money they can spend and on what.

BTW I've paid high-rate tax since my mid-20's, and when I first went into the band I was quite 'proud'. Proud that someone who left school at 16 was earning enough barely 10 years later to be paying higher rate - obviously this was a long time ago, as now on the 'same' money we'd be just considering we were 'getting by'.

This is going to get worse with the freezing of tax allowances, and I really don't believe that most folk understand how this will impact their income taxes. Frozen allowances and high inflation mean millions more will be in the high rate band each & every year.

Maybe a stupid question, but I work for a Scottish company but live/work in England.

I assume I still pay English tax rates?

Yep - you pay where you live.
I work for English head offices organisation, pay tax at Scottish rate.

Well I’d feel a lot better about it if we did something to tax people with wealth, not just income although we should be a lot more honest about the actual tax rates and include NI too.

And addressed the issue of the self employment NI rate being lower than the employeee rate as well as managing to reduce the number of ‘advantages’ to ‘self employed’ and ‘company directors’ and ‘complex company structures’.

Frozen allowances and high inflation mean millions more will be in the high rate band each & every year.

Assuming of course that high inflation actually results in people getting pay rises, which isn’t a given.

I'll wait for someone to publish the marginal rates of tax once this has settled, but as Nat Ins thresholds are not different in Scotland, the band between £43k where Scottish Higher rate starts and £50k when Nat Ins drops means the marginal rate of tax looks like 42% tax + 12% NI = 54%. And the £100-125k band will now be (effectively) 63% tax and 2% NI = 65% because of withdrawal of personal allowance. Any time the state takes more or your income than you keep yourself, and then drops the marginal rate of tax for those earning more, there's something wrong with the system.

I do have an issue with it

- If you're a sole earner in a household with children paying higher rate tax the UK government claws back child benefit over £50k
- Add to that the extra Scottish tax

Basically the marginal tax rate between £50-60k if you have children is 65% which is frankly obscene.

The amount of unearned wealth sloshing around this country in assets such as property is obscene. Why not do a 1% one off wealth tax on property assets over £300k? A 5% tax on property wealth that's not your primary residece? It was raise an absolute fortune and wouldn't penalise work. It's because it's easy to go after wages and hard to go after the genuinely wealthy.

The system is deliberately designed so the snp cannot make the changes they would like.

If you want to think where the extra money is going.   A nurse on the bottom of the pay scale will be 800 a year higher pay than England

The amount of unearned wealth sloshing around this country in assets such as property is obscene. Why not do a 1% one off wealth tax on property assets over £300k

There are considerable issues with that sort of wealth tax. Charging a tax on illiquid assets is always going to be problematic for people who are asset rich but cash poor. I think it would be better to treat all capital gain as income, remove the capital gain exemption on your primary residence, treat inheritance as income. These would raise a lot more in tax and target wealth rather than just income.

Any time the state takes more or your income than you keep yourself, and then drops the marginal rate of tax for those earning more, there’s something wrong with the system.

The rUK system is barely any different - and you forget those with Student Loans are paying another 9% already, but not in Scotland.

Although the tax burden is higher in Scotland there are several things we receive in return which England and Wales don't get as listed above by Robola. Also several public sector employees (teachers, NHS and police are the ones I know about) are paid significantly more than they would be for doing the same job in England.

Personally I’m just bored of hearing about indyref2. It was meant to be a once I a generation vote and it was ‘no’.

I wish we could go back and try Brexit voting again but it’s just not going to happen. I was a firm remain, couldn’t see any benefit to leaving, and all the (fairly predictable) downsides are now playing out - and becoming clearer as we pull clear of Covid. The Brexiteers got away with it for a bit as it’s been masked by so many other catastrophes but hopefully it’ll come home to roost and hit them firmly in the chops.

The SNP seem loosely bound together just on indyref2 and looking in externally it feels like if they get it they will then implode as they actually have quite differing views on governing. Scotland could actually end up with a weak currency, not a lot of negotiating power with any other country and in a right mess. Albeit at least you wouldn’t be governed by the Tory government who are an utter and corrupt joke.

Hopefully all the people that actually turn up to vote in the uk won’t forget this come general election time and we get them out.

The rUK system is barely any different – and you forget those with Student Loans are paying another 9% already, but not in Scotland.

Not forgetting at all - rUK is different - the £43-50k difference exists in Scotland only because of Nat Ins thresholds and them not being devolved. rUK tax and NI thresholds are aligned. The £100k-125k is little different. I can't find the article at the moment, but I think it suggested the highest marginal rate of tax was in the high 70s% including student loan element.

The amount of unearned wealth sloshing around this country in assets such as property is obscene. Why not do a 1% one off wealth tax on property assets over £300k? A 5% tax on property wealth that’s not your primary residece?

There is an issue generally with later taxation of value which has been legally accumulated under the rules prevailing at the time. Tends to lead to unintended consequences.

What I'd rather see is reformation of Council Tax with the burden increasingly weighted towards higher value property. That's long overdue and is something the Scottish Government could do. It avoids retrospective taxation pitfalls and is hard to avoid.

Maybe a stupid question, but I work for a Scottish company but live/work in England.

I assume I still pay English tax rates?

Yep – you pay where you live.
I work for English head offices organisation, pay tax at Scottish rate.

Not quite as clear as this is it? Depends where your contracted base is not where you communte to it from?

The marginal rate of 54% tax and NI between £43662 and £50k is unfair. So I pay anything over $43662 into a pension. So rather than get 21% the SNP get nothing.

https://www.brewin.co.uk/insights/how-pensions-lower-your-tax-bill-scotland

It also means I don't do overtime and am looking at cutting the hours I work to get just below £43662.

Not quite as clear as this is it? Depends where your contracted base is not where you communte to it from?

Yes, is is as clear as this - it is where you live.

I do have an issue with it..

The 1% rise in itself is just the icing on the cake, we already pay far more in tax than the rest of the uk due to tax bands

I also object to swinney’s statement that ‘we are asking the highest earners to pay they fair share’. He’s not ‘asking’ anything, likewise 43k in today’s climate doesn’t make you rich, far far from it

I’m sitting in a below uk average price house (still with a mortgage), a 9 year old car on the drive, no substantial savings of note yet I earn over that. Meanwhile there are people with far greater assets than me who probably won’t be affected in the slightest.

I didn’t mind paying a little extra when I could afford it, but with any expendable income now taken up through mortgage increases and rising fuel and food costs, I’m now pretty much going to be skint every month.

I’m sure the core snp voter base will be happy with it though, which is all they will care about. Ironically enough I actually voted for them in the last local election…won’t be doing that again

The amount of unearned wealth sloshing around this country in assets such as property is obscene. Why not do a 1% one off wealth tax on property assets over £300k

Such a massive can of worms....

Who decides what value your house is worth? How do you appeal the valuation? There's a reason council tax bands haven't been touched in 20 odd years - no one dares go near them....

Plus, asset rich cash poor pensioners - my in-laws are on tiny pensions but have a massive 5 bed mansion - they would struggle to raise the cash to pay a tax on it.

Plus, asset rich cash poor pensioners – my in-laws are on tiny pensions but have a massive 5 bed mansion – they would struggle to raise the cash to pay a tax on it.

I’m assuming this is bait…

To be a higher rate taxpayer you are one of the richest in our society.  You may not feel itbut its the truth

I’m assuming this is bait…

Not intentionally - but not everyone with assets has disposable income, so getting your wealth tax collected would be far from trivial...

Council tax is the closest we have to an asset tax as it supposedly based on the value of your home and no one has dared go near that for decades to update it.....

It's a lazy way of bringing in more tax, you're hitting those who are basically PAYE and allowing those who avoid tax to continue as is.

The thing that always strikes me is a statement i heard a while ago, normal people fear debt, the rich love it, they can offset any outgoings such as tax simply through management of their portfolio against debt, what the Scottish Government has done isn't going to affect that in any way by the sounds of it, same as those who are self employed and able to manage their income via salary, bonuses and benefits in kind.

To be a higher rate taxpayer you are one of the richest in our society. You may not feel itbut its the truth

Depends how you determine wealth tj. If it’s purely based on income before outgoings then maybe

If you are on 43k with a wife and 3 kids to provide for and a mortgage to pay you will definitely not be one of the richest in society.

If we factor in assets then someone like me would be even further down the order of wealth.

@argee What would you suggest they do to combat that kind of tax avoidance, which would be within the scope of the powers devolved to the Scottish Parliament?

The amount of unearned wealth sloshing around this country in assets such as property is obscene. Why not do a 1% one off wealth tax on property assets over £300k

Says the man who clearly doesn't live in SE England. £300k might buy you a 3 bed semi. Hardly wealth tax territory.

I’m sure the core snp voter base will be happy with it though, which is all they will care about. Ironically enough I actually voted for them in the last local election…won’t be doing that again

And you'd prefer to be the same as an English taxpayer on £43k?

Sure you kids will love it when they're paying back their Uni at 9% of their income.

This is what happens when a Govt isn't in total control of its finances (income & spending) and is also forced to contribute to policies/processes/Brexit/corruption/etc that weren't voted for here.

There are considerable issues with that sort of wealth tax. Charging a tax on illiquid assets is always going to be problematic for people who are asset rich but cash poor. I think it would be better to treat all capital gain as income, remove the capital gain exemption on your primary residence, treat inheritance as income. These would raise a lot more in tax and target wealth rather than just income.

It would make wealthy people unhappy which is the main problem. Taxing income at heinous marginal rates is problematic and difficult for people who are asset poor but cash rich but yet here we are.

If you've created a system where a working parent on upper rate would be financially better off dropping to a 4 day working week you've ****ed up.

They're also sneaky - the 42p vs 40p in England is misleading and makes it sound better than it is. At the margins the big issue is the threshold is much lower in Scotland (£43k vs £50k) and there is 21p/20p basic rate difference.

The reality is someone on £50k/yr in Scotland loses an addition 3% (£1.5k) of their income.

It would make wealthy people unhappy which is the main problem. Taxing income at heinous marginal rates is problematic and difficult for people who are asset poor but cash rich but yet here we are.

Oh I agree my suggestions are vote losers for sure but they are fair, or at least I think they are.

If you’ve created a system where a working parent on upper rate would be financially better off dropping to a 4 day working week you’ve **** up.

I'm pretty sure we don't have that situation even with the messed up rates that we currently have. The highest marginal rate that we have is (I think) 70%. Now don't get me wrong that is ridiculous but you will still be "better off" earing more and paying tax at that rate than not earning it at all. Whether the financial gain is "worth it" to the individual is a different question.

And you’d prefer to be the same as an English taxpayer on £43k?

Yes I would far prefer it. I don’t have kids so the uni fees are irrelevant to me and despite paying far more tax than my English coworkers, the services in Scotland are just as shit

I guess I save 5 quid on my free prescription every 2 months so that’s a benefit I suppose.

I’m pretty sure we don’t have that situation even with the messed up rates that we currently have.

It's the clawback of child benefit in the £50-60k range that tips it over the edge.

Say you work full time for £50k, you will get £50k plus £2.6 CB
Your take home will be £36K + 2.6 = £37.6k

Your mate has a slightly better job which pays £60k, which loses him all the CB and gives him a takehome of £41,776. However, he can cut back to 4 days, £50k a year save 1 day a weeks child care costs and be quids in.

I guess I save 5 quid on my free prescription every 2 months so that’s a benefit I suppose.

Prescriptions in England are nearly double that. Don't look at the cost of care.

Prescriptions are nearly double that. Don’t look at the cost of care.

also Council tax is generally cheaper
water is not a separate charge.

the savings you'd make by going to live in England, wouldn't last long.

Say you work full time for £50k, you will get £50k plus £2.6 CB
Your take home will be £36K + 2.6 = £37.6k

Your mate has a slightly better job which pays £60k, which loses him all the CB and gives him a takehome of £41,776. However, he can cut back to 4 days, £50k a year save 1 day a weeks child care costs and be quids in.

That doesn't say what you think it says. When the 2nd person is earning 60k they take home 41.8. When they are earning 50k they take home 37.6k so they would be 4k better off working the 5 days.

Not quite as clear as this is it? Depends where your contracted base is not where you communte to it from?

No it is based on residence, not employment location.  I've not heard of a mass shift in people from Dumfires to Carlisle so I assume that the middle/high earners who pay more in Scotland are generally happy with the benefits they get either directly or as a society in return. e.g. the OP has son(s?) at University paying no fees, the teachers he works with earn slightly more than their English equivalent, different arrangements for paying for care of the elderly etc.  Is it perfect, no far from it.  Would I like to pay less tax, yes of course.  Would I rather I paid English/Welsh rate of tax and got English outcomes? Clearly not - or as a home worker I'd have moved.

If you are on 43k with a wife and 3 kids to provide for and a mortgage to pay you will definitely not be one of the richest in society.

It is one of the things we have messed up - some other countries base tax on total household income which is potentially a far better metric of ability to pay.  A couple each earning 21.5k will be far better off than a single "breadwinner" on 43k with the same outgoings.  A couple each on 43k will still be paying less tax than one earner on 86k supporting a non-earning partner.  If they have kids the former will be getting child benefit but the latter will not.

However if you are on 43k (well 43,665 actually) you will be paying the 1% only on the £1 above the threshold.  So even at 44k you'd pay £3 a year more than a colleague south of the border. Are you moaning about £3?

What I’d rather see is reformation of Council Tax with the burden increasingly weighted towards higher value property. That’s long overdue and is something the Scottish Government could do. It avoids retrospective taxation pitfalls and is hard to avoid.

At one point their aim was to introduce a local income tax (which, assuming income is accurately measured, is a far fairer test of ability to pay) but I understand it was scuppered because Westminster would not continue to pay the current council tax benefit for those who qualify - I don't think they were looking for a penny more in total support, just that councils still got paid what they currently do.

I'm not a fan of "one-off wealth tax" ideas (it probably wouldn't hit me so its not a selfish thing).  Its just not really a great policy.  A far more sustainable policy would be modifying inheritance tax - close all the IHT planning tricks, and massively reduce (or even eliminate) the thresholds.  There's no doubt that anything other that a trivial inheritance provides you / your children with a significant opportunity.  That's great but it creates an element of luck and those from poor families are never able to access that luck so effectively locked into their social status - tax which helps the poorest and enables social mobility for the poorest would be very fair, but obviously unwelcome by those who are lucky enough to have parents (etc) who will leave them wealth.

The marginal rate of 54% tax and NI between £43662 and £50k is unfair. So I pay anything over $43662 into a pension. So rather than get 21% the SNP get nothing.

Whilst that is a short-term pain to the Scottish Government (the SNP get nothing anyway - they are a political party!) its a long term benefit because the whole point of making it tax efficient to put money in your pension is to encourage you to so because its in the country's interests for us to have well-funded pensioners in the future!

However if you are on 43k (well 43,665 actually) you will be paying the 1% only on the £1 above the threshold. So even at 44k you’d pay £3 a year more than a colleague south of the border. Are you moaning about £3?

Don’t think that’s quite right as the tax bands below that are different

Either way, I earn more than 44k, it’s well over 100 quid a month difference, which I do notice.

Still makes doesn’t from rich however when 1300 of it disappears instantly on mortgage and electricity

That doesn’t say what you think it says. When the 2nd person is earning 60k they take home 41.8. When they are earning 50k they take home 37.6k so they would be 4k better off working the 5 days.

No it means what I think it says, the 5th day at work gets you £89 in our current tax system. Which is not worth it when you consider childcare costs.

. Which is not worth it when you consider childcare costs.

Tax calculations don't (and can't) take into account other expenses. Not everyone will have childcare expenses. Maybe there is partner who doesn't work, maybe there are grandparents who provide it for free, maybe the kids are at school and don't need care. You will have more money from your pay if you work the 5 days rather than the four. Whether it is worth it is a value judgement for each individual to decide depending on their circumstances.

However if you are on 43k (well 43,665 actually) you will be paying the 1% only on the £1 above the threshold. So even at 44k you’d pay £3 a year more than a colleague south of the border. Are you moaning about £3?

No. At £44k you are £337 into the Scottish higher rate band. An Englush taxpayer would pay 20% of that. £67.

A Scottish taxpayer pays 42% £141.

On every £1k over the threshold up to £50k England £200 Scotland £420

There's so many aspects you have to add, what if it's someone working 60 hours a week with 20 hours overtime to look after their household, there's so many factors, as others say, childcare, inheritance, location, travel costs, etc, etc, etc.

Folk going 'you're in the rich club if you earn 44k or more' are just looking two dimensionally at a three dimensional problem. Raising tax at a time of record inflation and interest rate rises is just not a good thing, there will be more people squeezed due to this, so for every one saying 'this is great if spent wisely' there's potentially two worrying about another 20 quid a month disappearing out their pay packet.

I believe it will raise an extra £129 million a year.
They have just spent an extra £72 million to complete the ferries.

We need to pay for the Cairngorm funicular somehow, the £129 million should just about cover the running costs for this year.

I earn more than 44k, it’s well over 100 quid a month difference, which I do notice.

so an extra £100 a month - by my maths that's £1200 a year which is 1% of £120000, suggesting you are on a taxable income of around £165k per annum....

Still makes doesn’t from rich however when 1300 of it disappears instantly on mortgage and electricity

hmmmm...

tpbiker said

Yes I would far prefer it. I don’t have kids so the uni fees are irrelevant to me and despite paying far more tax than my English coworkers, the services in Scotland are just as shit

tpbiker previously said

If you are on 43k with a wife and 3 kids to provide for and a mortgage to pay you will definitely not be one of the richest in society.

Best you move to a Tory country mate, they appreciate entitled folk.

But before you do, let me know which services you use, the ones you tell us are "shit in Scotland" and then I can tell you how I don't want to pay for those - and you should pay more tax to cover my share.

I earn more than 44k, it’s well over 100 quid a month difference, which I do notice.

erm, I think your maths is out.

Assume a £50k income, so £6400ish income above the higher tax threshold.
Assume you make pension contributions of 5% (and let us face it, most of us on that money put more aside) £2500 annually.
You will have £3900 of income (at higher rate tax threshold) taxed at an extra 1%.
So £39 difference.

Edit: and I think I am right in saying if you up pension contributions by that amount it will have cost you nothing?

On every £1k over the threshold up to £50k England £200 Scotland £420

1% of £1000 is not £220.

If you are on 43k with a wife and 3 kids to provide for and a mortgage to pay you will definitely not be one of the richest in society.

I have been on similar for the last couple of years, plus part time working wife.

No, I am not 'rich' in my eyes, but I have a house I am paying off (more than many have, and a more valuable house/asset), I run two cars in the household (that is two more than many have), I have a pension (more than many) I have had a foreign holiday (a cheap one, but again, more than many), I have bikes, a few new clothes through the year, we have saved for a nice meal out with family tonight for a 21st birthday. I have a hell of a lot compared to even family who are bumping on minimum wage in a cold rental flat in a dodgy part of town... Even though I don't feel it, I am seriously wealthy and have options and choices that the wealth brings.

Even having a bank account puts you into the 'you have money' bracket.

1% of £1000 is not £220.

Correct.

But The bands are

Scotland: 41% over £43,600
Remainder of the UK: 40% over £50k.

So, if you earn >£50k you pay about* 21% of £6,400 (£1280) more than the remainder of the UK?

*how do all the 19% and 21% brackets in Scotland balance out?

Of course - sorry!

So, chucking things in a payslip checker:
Currently: £43k
England:
Breakdown
PAYE Deduction:£6,086NI
Deduction:£4,011.84
Employers NI:£4,714.08
Employers Cost:£47,714.08
Net Pay: £32,902.16

Scotland
PAYE Deduction:£6,242.07
NI Deduction:£4,011.84
Employers NI:£4,714.08
Employers Cost:£47,714.08
Net Pay: £32,746.09

.
At 50k
England:
PAYE Deduction:£7,486
NI Deduction:£4,851.84
Employers NI:£5,680.08
Employers Cost:£55,680.08
Net Pay:£37,662.16

Scotland £50k
Breakdown
PAYE Deduction:£8,916.29
NI Deduction:£4,851.84
Employers NI:£5,680.08
Employers Cost:£55,680.08
Net Pay: £36,231.87

So currently at £43k you are £150ish worse off in Scotland.
At £50k currently you are £1430.29 worse off.
The extra 1% will add £39 to a £50k tax bill in Scotland, so £1469.29 worse off next year.

No. At £44k you are £337 into the Scottish higher rate band. An Englush taxpayer would pay 20% of that. £67.

A Scottish taxpayer pays 42% £141.

Sorry you are quite right.  The "extra" 1% that was being objected to should be measured to 44k on a 2022/23 income v's 44k on a 2023/24 income both in Scotland.  That is ~ £3 a year difference.  So if someone is saying they don't feel rich on 44k a year and object to the extra 1% they are objecting to paying £3 more a year.

And again - let us remember at these salary levels, Pension contributions are reducing that tax bill as well.

Now factor in Student Loans deductions...

Now factor in Student Loans deductions…

What are they? 😉

Student loan comment is a moot point, being in scotland means your fee's are covered. The vast majority of people I know still took out student loans.

How does the Scottish Government pay for further education, prescriptions etc? Genuine question. Also, how do they fund the constant run for independence? Is it all funded by supporters contributions?

Personally have no qualms about paying the extra 1% but I'd like to know that its going to education and not the relentless drive for independence, which a large percentage of the country doesn't want.

The reality is someone on £50k/yr in Scotland loses is investing an addition 3% (£1.5k) of their income in ensuring that they are helping build a society that ensures better services and opportunities for all, leading to long term savings in costs in the crime, benefits and childrens services budgets.

Yes, I'm an idealist at times.

MOAB - I think you've hit the nail on the head here:

No, I am not ‘rich’ in my eyes, but I have a house I am paying off (more than many have, and a more valuable house/asset), I run two cars in the household (that is two more than many have), I have a pension (more than many) I have had a foreign holiday (a cheap one, but again, more than many), I have bikes, a few new clothes through the year, we have saved for a nice meal out with family tonight for a 21st birthday. I have a hell of a lot compared to even family who are bumping on minimum wage in a cold rental flat in a dodgy part of town… Even though I don’t feel it, I am seriously wealthy and have options and choices that the wealth brings.

Very few people actually think they are rich.  Very few people want to pay more tax, but pretty much everyone agrees that people earning more than them should pay more tax.  The reality is that 43K is not rich, but its a lot better off than many.  Then of course you need to ask what sort of society would you like to live in?  One like @tpbiker:

Yes I would far prefer it. I don’t have kids so the uni fees are irrelevant to me

where the idea of Uni fees only matters if you have kids?  I don't get excited about uni fees for MY kids - they are from a lucky family and would get to go to uni if they were smart enough regardless of fees, and seem to want to study subjects where they will earn well enough to pay back any loans they might get.  I get excited about uni fee so that the kid who is really smart but can barely afford shoes to go to school in gets the opportunity to go to uni and so that a decision of what you study is not based on your ability to recoup the earning or only the rich will study many of the social sciences etc. And of course that doesn't just apply to Uni fees but everything else where the policy (= spending) gives the least advantaged the best chance.

and despite paying far more tax than my English coworkers, the services in Scotland are just as shit

Have you actually tried both lots of services?  I'm not arguing everything in Scotland is rosy, but I have family and colleagues in other parts of the UK and I'm pretty sure that our shit is not as bad as their shit for a lot of things.

Yesterday I saw someone exploding at the local council for spending money on something "...when you can't even go to A&E unless it is an actual emergency" - it seems he was more interested in moaning about the waste of money than thinking why else you'd go to A&E or if the council ran the hospitals!  Unfortunately, I think social media fosters a lot of this attitude - people who are looking to find an argument and criticise a political position without actually bothering to think about what they are arguing for.  Just because you don't like the party in power it doesn't mean everything they do is wrong/bad.

Sorry you are quite right. The “extra” 1% that was being objected to should be measured to 44k on a 2022/23 income v’s 44k on a 2023/24 income both in Scotland. That is ~ £3 a year difference. So if someone is saying they don’t feel rich on 44k a year and object to the extra 1% they are objecting to paying £3 more a year.

You're missing the point that the main different between an english £50k and Scottish is the threshold. Which is being held steady despite 6% average wage growth.

So a person on £44k in 2022 will earn an extra £2.6k in 2023 but lose 42% of it in Scotland (£1.1k) vs 20% in England.

Nothing about the last 15 years if SNP administration makes me feel like the extra will go to good use. See the Ferries, bottoming out every health league table, poor educational attainment etc

so an extra £100 a month – by my maths that’s £1200 a year which is 1% of £120000, suggesting you are on a taxable income of around £165k per annum….

No your maths is way off… I’m not even close to the 165k mark. Well under less than a third of that I’m afraid

tpbiker previously said

Does that say I said I had kids? Nope…

Best you move to a Tory country mate, they appreciate entitled folk.

But before you do, let me know which services you use, the ones you tell us are “shit in Scotland” and then I can tell you how I don’t want to pay for those – and you should pay more tax to cover my share.

Ah yes that’s correct, I’m entitled because I am struggling to pay for my mortgage and bills. Tbf I doubt you contribute much in the way of income tax anyways so I’m probably already covering your share..😉

where the idea of Uni fees only matters if you have kids?

@poly

You’ve take that out of context though haven’t you. It was pointed out that if I moved to England I’d have to pay for uni fees so I shouldn’t complain about paying extra tax. All I said was that would be irrelevant to me as I don’t have kids.

Typical stw, I have an issue paying even more tax when I’m already struggling to pay my bills and some clown claims I’m a Tory. I’ve been paying the upper tax band for 10 years and never complained once, despite me not requiring many of the services that i pay for. And in that time I’ve only ever voted snp or labour. I’m happy to pay my share if I can afford it, however In the current climate I can’t.

But sure.. I’m an entitled Tory😩

Edit…not sure what’s happened with the quote function there!

 

The SNP will just p!ss it away.

No your maths is way off… I’m not even close to the 165k mark. Well under less than a third of that I’m afraid

Ah, sorry about that. I can’t work out though how you’ll be £100 a month extra tax though.

The SNP will just p!ss it away

On higher pay for nhs staff?  On free university?  On free orescriotions?  On dualling the A9?

Ah, sorry about that. I can’t work out though how you’ll be £100 a month extra tax though

Between 43 and 50k Scottish folks pay over twice as much tax as those in England. So basically 21% extra on that 7k, or roughly 1400 quid if my maths is correct

Ah, sorry about that. I can’t work out though how you’ll be £100 a month extra tax though.

Covered upthread. On £50k a Scottish taxpayer pays around £1400 a year more income tax than an English taxpayer. More than £100 a month.

On free university?

So that Scottish students struggle to get a place in Scottish Universities because so many places are allocated to foreign students?

Or that a once excellent education system is now on it's knees?

SNP policy is all mouth and no trousers.

Covered upthread. On £50k a Scottish taxpayer pays around £1400 a year more income tax than an English taxpayer. More than £100 a month.

Ah, thanks, I misread it as the poster was going to see a personal tax increase of £100 a month in his own salary as a result of the changes.

where the idea of Uni fees only matters if you have kids? I don’t get excited about uni fees for MY kids – they are from a lucky family and would get to go to uni if they were smart enough regardless of fees, and seem to want to study subjects where they will earn well enough to pay back any loans they might get. I get excited about uni fee so that the kid who is really smart but can barely afford shoes to go to school in gets the opportunity to go to uni and so that a decision of what you study is not based on your ability to recoup the earning or only the rich will study many of the social sciences etc.

England has a higher rate of disadvantaged children attending University.

So that Scottish students struggle to get a place in Scottish Universities because so many places are allocated to foreign students?

That's the quid pro quo of no fees, the number of courses open to an English resident in clearing at Scottish Universities is far greater than those available to Scottish residents.