[Closed] School strike...

I like wet lettuce, but I think white aspargus is my favourite at the moment.
Salads are ace.

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The Mrs is a dinner lady, and they are expected to turn up to serve food, even though there will be no teachers nor children in attendance. Absolute joke.

[i]when was the last time you saw a 65 yr old teacher?[/i]

Teacher in my daughter's year at school is retiring this year having joined the school in 1973. She's been teaching the third generation of kids from some families.

She's not 65, but she looks it.

My 2p;

Most of the people who complain about the 'day off brigade' seem quite happy to take their kids out of school when it suits them so they can get a holiday 3p cheaper.

If you strike you don't get paid.
If you don't strike you do get paid.
If half the teachers strike the school will be closed.
Those off on strike will not get paid.
Those who are off because the school is closed will.

(Also not all teaching unions have voted to strike and their members would be at risk of disciplinary action if they don't turn up for work as they will simply be absent)

Most of the people who complain about the 'day off brigade' seem quite happy to take their kids out of school when it suits them so they can get a holiday 3p cheaper.

I love it when people mix two loosely related issues together to try and make a point.

I thought I'd done quite well 🙂

[i]highlights the day off brigade from those who want to do a days work [/i]

It was really this that got me - suggesting that people who are prepared to give up a days pay for a principle are somehow workshy fops seemed a needless implication.

Yes, not all teachers are striking but it doesn't mean that those that are will be the 'bad' ones.

Those who are off because the school is closed will

The school will be closed to pupils, not other non striking staff. They will be expected to turn up as normal. I'm sure they will be able to do productive work (e.g. lesson plans, catching up on paperwork etc) despite not doing any actual classroom teaching.

It's certainly a contentious issue which could be discussed at some length.......................

'''''''''or we could look at a pic of a dog, who might have a child's face off if they aren't at school. Who would like that on their conscience!

[img] [/img]

when was the last time you saw a 65 yr old teacher?

Good point.......I hadn't thought of that.

Teachers are indeed lazy greedy layabouts who don't give a toss about children's eduction and only want to retire early on a fat pension.

Rest assured that most of us teachers who are not striking are doing so as we would be breaking the law if we did, as our unions have not yet balloted members on industrial action.
I've been teaching 16 years and I've never seen this level of anger amongst my colleagues in all that time.

I've been teaching 16 years ....

Coming up for retirement no doubt.

If only...;)

nurse!!! more valium for totalshell.

My union is striking but fully intend to work - I think i might be in trouble?!? 😯

My union is striking but fully intend to work

So I take it you will be accepting the governments current kind offer on pensions even if the strikes managed to get them to change their position 🙄

anagallis_arvensis - Member

nurse!!! more valium for totalshell.

You called?

Striking worked really well for the miners; no doubt this will be another embarrasing defeat for the Tories.

I don't think.

Accept that your pension will be less good from now on. It'll be easier in the long run. It's astonishing how many teachers are retiring now to seal their benefits before the rules change. Very smart.

I think i might be in trouble?!?

Nah you'll fine.........I'm sure those who are in dispute with their employers over their pensions will fully understand your reluctance to support them.

Why did you think you might be in trouble ?

Have you thought of leaving the union btw ? ......... or do you want it to be there for you should you need it ? ........and you need/want all the other union members to back you.

Oh here we go, its started again. Supposition stated as cold hard fact.
Exactly how many extra teachers are retiring? And source please.

Striking worked really well for the miners; no doubt this will be another embarrasing defeat for the Tories.

I don't think.

Now, if I had been a miner at that time and I was told that I was going to lose my job and my whole community was about to be shafted as a result, going on strike and at least fighting to save my job would have been one of two things that I could have salvaged out of the situation.

The other thing would have been the satisfaction in knowing that I
was one someone that had the balls to stand up and fight against the tyranny that was being brought down upon my class.

Personally, I think the miners achieved a lot.

It's astonishing how many teachers are retiring now to seal their benefits before the rules change

really I've not noticed any

Well total..(not shell that springs to mind)we have already been told that we are working to 68,so give it 25 years and you will see at least one at my school.But don't let facts get in the way of your rant. I mean most teachers can't even spell you know.

Clink; I hope you can look everybody in the eye when they come back from fighting for your benefits. You will of course be returning any concessions won by your colleagues,will you not?

Haven't seen all these extra teachers retiring, what difference would retiring a couple of years early make over a 40y career?

I mean most teachers can't even spell you know.

how many teachers at your kids school over 60 never mind 65? my daughters retired last year at 57 not a bad time to go with your half decent pension. so the issue cant be about the retirement age it must be about the reward whist retired or the age from when it can be paid

ScottChegg - Member

Striking worked really well for the miners; no doubt this will be another embarrasing defeat for the Tories.

You can't possibly think there's an equivalence here? Unless you think that the UK teaching industry will be abandoned and replaced with north sea lessons and imports?

Accept that your pension will be less good from now on. It'll be easier in the long run. It's astonishing how many teachers are retiring now to seal their benefits before the rules change.

So a strike once failed to achieve its hoped for outcome and all union members should just bend over and take what the government wants to give them regardless of the equity of it?

Smile as we get shafted, it will be better in the long run. What's the reasoning behind that pearl of wisdom?

Some teachers might be choosing to retire and I know one or two that are. They are very good and experienced teachers so what does that potentially mean for the quality of education in the school system?

For the teachers striking they won't get the pension contribution for that day either, which is what they are striking for in the first place.

For the teachers striking they won't get the pension contribution for that day either, which is what they are striking for in the first place.

Yup and that one day will make a massive difference.

Shit, I bit.

Our lower school is not going out on strike as they told us in a letter, however they have told us they will be on teacher training day on friday instead???. Didn't even have that one on the calendar.

I can understand the strong feelings on this, as a parent it is our responsibility to look after our children but it does irritate me having to try and cover the school hols with my hols or wifes hols or trying to swap shifts to do so, then the seemingly ever increasing amount of "training days" that need covering and chuck in a few "snow days" and we are left with not enough hols to cover or if the employers are generous (yeah right) they let you have unpaid leave. The potential time off with strikes is yet another burden that as parents needs to be filled but ending up out of pocket or time or even chucking a sickie which employers really don't like.Hence not much sympathy from a parents perspective.

I also accept everyone in a union has a right to protest/strike or whatever but can it not be done in a different manner?. I remember all school teams/activities suffering in the 80's strikes as all after school or lunchtime practices were cancelled and work to rule etc.

Clink; I hope you can look everybody in the eye when they come back from fighting for your benefits. You will of course be returning any concessions won by your colleagues,will you not?

Have you thought of leaving the union btw ? ......... or do you want it to be there for you should you need it ? ........and you need/want all the other union members to back you.

The potential time off with strikes is yet another burden that as parents needs to be filled but ending up out of pocket or time or even chucking a sickie which employers really don't like.Hence not much sympathy from a parents perspective.

The potential time off with strikes is yet another burden that as parents needs to be filled but ending up out of pocket or time or even chucking a sickie which employers really don't like.Hence not much sympathy from a parents perspective.

isnt this the point of the strike?

What have the parents done to offend you?

Clink; I hope you can look everybody in the eye when they come back from fighting for your benefits. You will of course be returning any concessions won by your colleagues,will you not?

It's a choice which I sincerely hope I don't have to make ie. to strike or not, if the dispute escalates to other public services.

What have the parents done to offend you?

voted in a Tory government, surely the point of a teachers strike is to make people realise teachers are kind of important to them and may be worth paying for. Its not designed to make friends.

Then you're succeeding. As I've said before, I know who I'll be voting for in the next election.

I have done this to death but this got my attention

Accept that your pension will be less good from now on.

The potential time off with strikes is yet another burden that as parents needs to be filled but ending up out of pocket or time or even chucking a sickie which employers really don't like.Hence not much sympathy from a parents perspective.

65 year old teachers?
When did you last see a 65 year old nurse? or a 65 year old jobbing builder?

As for strike action, surely that is far better than work to rule which would have a much greater impact on education. If not striking, h
what other " better" leverages would you suggest?

so they can achieve their objectives

...which could be monitored and rewarded with appropriate compensation - right?

...which could be monitored and rewarded with appropriate compensation - right?

Junkyard...

Of course i'm only thinking about myself as are the teachers . As a modern family we both have to work and so plan our lives around school terms, dubious training days,snow days etc. You will not get much sympathy from any working parents.

I'll give this to page 4

i am not a teacher [ not working as one is more accurate]
i am a working parent.
i can think of people other than myself you should try this empathy lark. Apparently some clever folk think it is what separates us from other primates and children.
Times are hard for many people but why you want it to be harder for teachers is still not clear to me.

Never said i wanted it harder for teachers, i just said dont expect much sympathy from folks.

Why the cheap insult?

You will not get much sympathy from any working parents.

tbh I assume you mean the empathy bit - it was said more in sarcasm than scorn. I am happy to apologise for this.

You will not get much sympathy from any working parents.

They do from me.

Yes...and joining a different one. I don't agree with striking due to it's effect on others. I'm investigating changing unions at the moment.

I think you might struggle finding a teaching union which doesn't recognise the need for industrial action when confronted by an intransigent employer.

The Association of Teachers and Lecturers has just had its first national strike ballot in 127 years.

Good luck.

.

voted in a Tory government

We do not have a Tory government, we have a coalition government. The Tories could not form a government. The British people did not elect a Tory government........[b]there's a reason for that[/b].

.

and that , of course, is blackmail and totally goes against the freedom of choice which the poster is entitled to in this country, regardless of whther they are a union member or not.

It doesn't work like that Woody - you obviously don't fully understand the concept of democracy and majority decision making. Or at least you believe it only works one way - your way.

An individual cannot decide for themselves whether or not they go on strike, for a start a majority has to vote in favour of industrial action before anyone can legally strike. Secondly everyone is morally bound to accept democratically arrived decisions of organisations which they have freely chosen to join.

What you want is the freedom to vote on whether or not there should be industrial action, and then, the freedom to totally ignore the vote if it hasn't gone the way you wanted it to go. A greater contempt for democracy is hard to imagine.

My daughter is a teacher and her school will be open. Her sons school will be closed. My night shifts will be long ones!!!!
My wife is a civil servant and will have to work till she is 66 and her pension contributions will increase by approx £80/mth to ensure she gets a "golden pension" !!!! She cannot take the day off to look after grandson due to the "rules".
Her colleagues contributions to their pensions who are on approx £16k will be the ones who suffer most. All of the 20 people who work in my wifes office are people who have jobs after having been in offices (civil service) that no longer exist 💡 Previous strikes did not do them any favours in their previous jobs and therefore the current call to strike will be ignored 🙂

Miners/British Leyland/Rover and numerous other companies have gone to the wall due to strike action. Even locally people I know went on strike at a local factory, year later it closed.

It doesn't work like that Woody - you obviously don't fully understand the concept of democracy and majority decision making. Or at least you believe it only works one way - your way.

What you want is the freedom to vote on whether or not there should be industrial action

Really - thanks for telling me why I joined a union. Totally wrong but thanks for having a guess at it.

Well first of all I wasn't talking about you personally, remember this was with reference to Clink's point. I didn't even know you were in a union. Still, if you prefer you might find this version with more words better

"[i]What you want is people to have the freedom to vote on whether or not there should be industrial action, and then, for them to have the freedom to totally ignore the vote if it hasn't gone the way you wanted it to go. A greater contempt for democracy is hard to imagine. [/i]"

I think that's a fair comment and I'm sticking by it - you can't honestly expect me to believe that you don't think there should be a ballot before industrial action is taken. And you can't honestly expect me to believe that you would be happy if the ballot went against strike action, but that the result was ignored and the strike went ahead anyway.

As I said, you obviously only support democracy if the result the goes the way you want it to go. If it does, you think it should be implemented, otherwise, you think it should be ignored. So yeah, complete contempt for democracy - you even admit it with your comment about overriding democratically arrived decisions. BTW, thanks for giving me the opportunity to repeat the observation, since we're apparently in the business of thanking each other.

BTW, thanks for giving me the opportunity to repeat the observation

I'm going to work now before you put any more words in my mouth. Have a nice day comrade 🙂

Ernie not eveyone will strike for various reasons and it's their right. Woody won't as he provides an essential service which he feels he can not take away from the public. I've said the same if a general strike is called for I won't strike, I would however work to rule. It's has nothing to do with them not voting for what I wanted it's the fact I would never will wilfully withdraw the service I provide.

Bit like Drac though my service, community nursing, is not usually as urgent as his.

However, I work in a community team under social services management, and would not cross a picket line of my fellow team members. I would, however, work from elsewhere so long as my employer provides the option or from my car for the day, but only for the good of my patients NOT the service - anything not urgent would have to wait.

Its a difficult one because I feel everyone has the right to strike for their rights and, tbh, every benefit we now have such as paid sick leave and holidays has been hard fought for and won by collective bargaining.

I do fear that an end to unions would see employers slowly eroding workers rights over decades, likely necessitating the re-emergence of unions. We see the seeds of change every day in the private sector and soon the public sector will be hit in the same way.

As me and my wife are both nurses we are getting a double whammy effect on our finances with pay freezes and increased contributions on the cards.

Interestingly I saw that wages are growing at a 2% average at the moment, if public sector are frozen then the private sector must be getting well in excess of 2% to make the average - not quite all in it together from my perspective.

It's has nothing to do with them not voting for what I wanted it's the fact I would never will wilfully withdraw the service I provide.

It has everything to do with 'them not voting for what you wanted'.....presumably you would go along with the result of a ballot if it voted against strike action. "I will respect the result of the ballot if it goes the way I want it to go, but I will ignore it and encourage others to do so, if it goes the way I don't want it to go".

Woody won't as he provides an essential service which he feels he can not take away from the public.

But we weren't talking about the "essential service" that Woody provides, we were talking about Clink's comment.

btw, what essential service does Woody provide that he can't take a day's industrial action ?

If pay is increasing by 2% yes, it must be largely the private sector -my Wife in the public sector has had her last pay rise with nothing more to come, which i presume are worked out in advance. Lets not forget however, the recession first hit the private sector in 2008, so many pay rises were stopped over night with job losses, while the public sector continued to get pay rises.

No Ernie I will let my staff and colleagues make up their own minds on what they do I will not influence them either way. Of course if they voted against I'd not strike, what an utter ridiculous comment.

Woody is a Rapid Response Paramedic.

Scamper we had our pay freezes and job losses from 2008 too. We know it's not exclusive to the public sector.

Of course if they voted against I'd not strike, what an utter ridiculous comment.

Of course it's an utterly ridiculous suggestion, that's why I took it as a given. And I've also taken as a given that if you were in a union in which the majority voted for strike action, you would ignore the vote (well actually I was initially referring to Clink's comment, but I'm happy to include you too)

That is very clearly [i]not [/i]how democracy works.

Well that's fine if you think there should be no democracy within a trade union, or at least only democracy when it works in your favour. But don't come out with some crap about [i]"blackmail and totally goes against the freedom of choice which the poster is entitled to in this country, regardless of whether they are a union member or not".[/i]

Whether they are a union member or not is highly significant. And I would want any union member who doesn't comply with democratic decisions and remains in the union to be disciplined. It has nothing to do with "blackmail" and they have freedom of choice whether or not they are in a union. Which is more than you get with some professional organisations.

Blackmail where did I mention that?

Of course it's freedom if choice, forced to strike is wrong and I'm well aware a union could chose to expel me on such a thing. As I say I could not withdraw the service I provide it's essential service. You can babble on all you want about democracies it's still down to individuals.

well apparently my school is open next thursday to years 10 and 12 so there goes my lie in 😥

😥 😥 😥 😥

Haha snap our kids' school is open too.

Blackmail where did I mention that?

Well this is what happens when you butt in. You were commenting on my response which I made to someone, which was in response to what they said, concerning my response to someone else.

None of which is helped by the fact that I don't use fancy posh terms. So I come out with stuff like "But don't come out with some crap about...." instead of saying "But one must not come out with some crap about...." which leads you to think that it is aimed at you personally.

I hope that makes things clearer. If it doesn't, let me know won't you ?

Not sure how it's going to work to be honest.

NASUWT members should report for work as normal, having advised the headteacher/principal in advance that they will not accept any variation to their contracted duties and/or undertake the timetabled or other responsibilities of those engaged in action.

Well this is what happens when you butt in. You were commenting on my response which I made to someone, which was in response to what they said, concerning my response to someone else.

Ah right sorry but that's where quotes come in handy. Oh and sorry for interrupting your thread. 😛

No no, no need to apologise, I'm perfectly happy for you to interrupt my thread. I was just pointing out where the confusion lay.

😆

Back home now, hope everyone had a nice day 😉

Yup and that one day will make a massive difference.

Shit, I bit

Which a lot of them don't realise. The 10 teachers at school in NUT who are on strike next week didn't know this. They were yabbering on about the strike when we pointed this out to them.
A couple of UNISON members went on strike a few years back, and they now have on their annual pension statement a note about it not being complete because of those days.

You can babble on all you want about democracies it's still down to individuals.

In the context of talking about unions and participation in strike action, is this not to completely miss the point - it's called [i]Collective bargaining[/i] for this very point. There may of course be times when a person within a union feels that their own ethical priorities are in tension with the decisions of the collective democratic process, but if you sign up to a union, you're implicitly repudiating a libertarian view of individual rights..

We were messing around with a pension calculator yesterday and a 29 yr old women who had worked 8 yrs would end up paying £70 pounds per month extra, have to work to 68 and receive £180K less in pension over a 20 year period after retirement.

How many people would be happy to accept that without a fight?

+1 ianv

Pensions are deferred pay, thus any increase in employee contributions, any reduction of employer contributions, any decrease in benefits at retirement = a pay cut.

I'll be £77 a month worst off under the new plans whle my employer pays less, and I get less when I retire.

civil servant 325 years in £60 per month worse off has to work longer and gets a 40% per annum pension reduction - would you accept this. Mos I know would prefer a wage reduction tbh. If it was increase fees for sam epension they would probably take that as well
lets not forget the the current crop of retirees having paid too little to get their current pension deal so why are we not going after them rather than us?

Whats totally pissing me off is that a school can't employ a replacement. If you want to stike go for it but its aginst all "laws" of morality that you can't be substituted.
Oh yeah and my ATl membership is going back. Like many I joined as they generally didn't strike. Why join? For legal back up when some little shit says you belted him when he didn't like being told to stop talking. Its digusting that people can do this. I applaud those still at work.

its disgusting that people are able to decide to withold their labour? sorry I will never understand this viewpoint.

Oh yeah and my ATl membership is going back. Like many I joined as they generally didn't strike.

I'm sure you are absolutely right - many joined the ATL [i]precisely[/i] because it had never had a national strike ballot in its entire history.

Which begs the question, why did 83% of ATL members vote to back strike action ? Clearly to get that sort of result from a union whose members are historically opposed to strike action, suggests that something fundamental has happened within the teaching profession.

I hope you teach with slightly less hyperbole but just as much zeal.
now roll over and let Dave tickle your belly whilst he shafts you.
I have some terrible news for you as well striking is a human right since about 1948 and 1966 by the UN] and The UK keeps getting told off for how much we have restricted this right.
What worse is that Striking on behalf of other unions /worker [secondary action /flying pickets]is also recognised.
you should rejoice you live in such a restricted country and consider why your view is out of kilter with the International community.

Schools in Wales are now going on strike because teachers are getting made redundant at the schools, and one in Liverpool is on strike because the teachers who just work there,dontwant it to become an accademy the children the parents and all the governors want it to become an academy away from la control.