Saloon cars, what’s the point?

2 seater sports cars - I mean what's the point!

In theory a saloon chassis/body is stiffer than a hatch and so handles "better". How much of this true, or even matters?

looks nicer than a hearse

they keep making them because idiots keep buying them 😉

I agree, never seen the point of saloon cars.

The number of saloons sold vs other body types tells you that the general populous has also come to that conclusion.

@scotroutes has what's probably the only reason to persist, or if you have stuff you want to keep out of sight. In a race car you'd probably want the hatch anyway as it would make it easier to fabricate a stiff roll cage that will out perform the standard body stiffness.

2 seater sports cars – I mean what’s the point!

I have one of those, it definitely has a point.

theory a saloon chassis/body is stiffer than a hatch and so handles “better”. How much of this true, or even matters?

More so than a hatchback? Didn’t know that. Anyhow if that’s the case I could see the point on a high performance car, but as you say, on a 2l Mazda 6 that weighs more than the moon…

For people who don't need the huge boot. And having the boot separate to the cabin means the cabin is normally quieter, passengers don't get subjected to cold air/rain etc when the boot is open. Therefore they're more in the luxury end.

they keep making them because idiots keep buying them 😉

Guilty as charged. Never really thought it through, although in my defense I did try to get hold of the estate version with no success

Baddies can lock people in the boot in films.

Never owned a saloon - does rather beg the question as to why you bought it tpbiker....?

My pet electric car peeve - will someone please make a large electric estate car. I don't want a slopey rear reverse tardis SUV or a small hatchback.

Estate Model S or electric A6 estate would do nicely thanks.

In a true saloon car it's quieter as the noise from the rear wheels is completely isolated.

I think they peaked here in the late 70s but they continued to be very popular in Europe until recent years. Think Escort, Cortina, Audi 100/A6, Merc 190/C, BMW 3/5/7 series, Passat, lots of Volvos, Renault, Peugeots, Nissan Bluebird, Marina/Ital/Montego

Things have changed slowly in Europe but their preference for saloons gave us monstrosities like the Clio saloon, Megane Saloon, Opel/Vauxhall Belmont but there were some nice ones like the VW Jetta and the Audi 200 quattro (be still my beating heart)

I was in an Audi sales showroom yesterday, the S3 Saloon looked stunning, and about the right size for my solo journeys around the country.

The RS6 next to it looked better for the bikes though. Its annoying how good looking Audi's are inside and outside, when we got back into my 320d Jnr said to me, "hmm Daddy, your car's lacking compared to those"

SorryI can't add any more to the discussion.

They are quieter and more refined.

I've had a BMW 3 series saloon and estate. The saloon was only slightly less practical than the estate. However an equivalent x3 SUV wins hands down on practicality

My pet electric car peeve – will someone please make a large electric estate car. I don’t want a slopey rear reverse tardis SUV or a small hatchback.

Yeah I hate the lack of estate EV's too, but there is a good reason at least - due to the battery pack it's much easier to build an SUV which allows room for the battery under the seats.

Give it time and there'll be more about.

A poor choice for people wanting to carry awkwardly shaped large but light items such as mountain bikes. So not going to be much love for them here.

They do have their benefits, and are significantly nicer than a "crossover" [shudders]

Don't get me started on "crossover SUVs", all the practicality of a saloon but don't worry it has the handling of a 4x4. Literally what is to like?

does rather beg the question as to why you bought it tpbiker….?

Indeed it does! Tbh I rocked up with my road bike before I bought it and it went in no issues.

Subsequently tried to put in the gravel bike with wider handlebars and they were too wide to fit through the opening without taking off the front wheel! It then dawned on me the error of my ways

Baddies can lock people in the boot in films.

I believe that American saloons have to have an internal release for this reason. I could be imagining it though.

I believe that American saloons have to have an internal release for this reason. I could be imagining it though.

The Baddies cut those out though - have you not read any Jack Reacher books!? 🙂

The tail gate design of saloons

The boot lid?

I had a Vento and a Golf mk3 at the same time. The Vento was a much nicer car. Drove better, huge boot carried more (buggy and travel cot in lengthways - try that in your hatchback), quieter. Sadly it was the 1.9TDI not the VR6 driven by the police.

Truth be told, I bought it as the cheapest car with that engine. It was 3k cheaper than the equivalent Golf and I made the garage a silly offer telling them they’d never sell it to anyone else. I drove 144k faultless miles in that car commuting and it averaged 12p/mile all in (including depreciation) over that time. A lorry reversed into it and wrote it off and I was heartbroken. The Golf died on the M4 when the 1.4 petroleum expired and I never missed it.

The Baddies cut those out though – have you not read any Jack Reacher books!?

The cunning little things.

I believe that American saloons

Are called sedans and they have a trunk rather than boot.

Americans 'used to' do it best...

A poor choice for people wanting to carry awkwardly shaped large but light items such as mountain bikes.

Yep, but a good choice for carrying golf clubs. Probably a better market to target.

I had one for a while. Was quite handy living in a cheaper bit of the city. Could leave sports kit and other handy bits and bobs in the boot and not worry about it. Nothing valuable but anything visible would result in a broken window. Bike fitted on the back seat OK so worked out alright for trips away. Wouldn't buy one now.

Don’t get me started on “crossover SUVs”, all the practicality of a saloon but don’t worry it has the handling of a 4×4. Literally what is to like?

Well you've got to have something to 'other' people with, I guess.

SUV owner here. I find my one has equal practicality to our Passat estate, which is no small thing itself. YMMV.

Manual cars, what's the point?

they keep making them because idiots keep buying them

I like saloons and currently have a 3 series. Quieter & more refined and I don't need to carry big stuff as my OH has SUV's.

Americans ‘used to’ do it best…

Mleh, amateur effort...Behold...Note that it's a 2 door.

Manual cars, what’s the point?

And.

Car manuals, what's the point?

Are called sedans and they have a trunk rather than boot.

Are called sedans by Americans. And Americans call the boot a trunk. But I am not American. Thank god.

God made America.

America makes Sedans.

Sedans are chairs.

You get chairs in saloons.

Makes you think.

Where do you put your dog if you have a saloon car?

The dog drives.

Another dull saloon

@TiRed

I had a Vento and a Golf mk3 at the same time. The Vento was a much nicer car. Drove better, huge boot carried more (buggy and travel cot in lengthways – try that in your hatchback),

Not surprisingly the Vento (which was basically a Golf with a bit more boot tagged on to the back end) had a larger capacity than the Golf.

I think that the point of this thread is that as the Vento already had that extra length over the Golf, then it may as well have had the extra height to this length for even more internal space.

(I'm making an assumption that there was a golf/Vento estate variant back then)

My pet electric car peeve – will someone please make a large electric estate car. I don’t want a slopey rear reverse tardis SUV or a small hatchback.

MG 5?

Pretty long range, pretty quick charging, pretty cheap, and it's an estate...

The golf estate was 3k more expensive and the same length, but had no more space unless you piled stuff high. The VR6 was a great car and the police loved them.

When I came to replace it, I used the buggy test. Insert buggy lengthways and close the boot. Surprising how many cars (including estates) can’t take a buggy length ways.

Saloon cars will be longer than hatchbacks.

Americans ‘used to’ do it best…

All the cornering and handling ability of MS Ever Given

Where do you put your dog if you have a saloon car?

In the Land Rover. Well, one's gamekeeper usually puts him in, but you get the idea.

passengers don’t get subjected to cold air/rain etc when the boot is open

That had never occurred. Makes sense for taxis then.

Americans ‘used to’ do it best…

Someone finally explained vinyl roofs to me a month or so back. Supposed to look like a convertible.

Though no-one has explained the allure of convertibles to me. I've driven one for a weekend (MX5 London to Dorset and back and around Lyme Regis) and I've been driven in the back of one (a Golf) and both times found it pointless and unpleasant.

In traffic you're breathing more fumes and it's unpleasantly noisy. Above 30mph it's unpleasantly noisy and you're buffeted by the wind*. Both times found it massively unpleasant on a busy A road or motorway. Unless it's really warm you're cold but if the sun is out you've got no shade. Was ok on a quiet country lane.

(which also goes for driving with the windows open, yet I see people in modern cars which must have working aircon with their windows open on the motorway frequently)

I believe that American saloons have to have an internal release for this reason. I could be imagining it though.

I rented a Ford Fusion in Canada and can confirm.

Ford made a minging focus saloon

Agree on the looks of the Audi A200 above, but then I thought the Avant version looked great too

Don’t get me started on “crossover SUVs”,

https://flic.kr/p/2nB4oDb

Yeah, you need something a bit bigger. Our old (2013) Xtrail has a bigger cargo capacity than a new XC90 apparently.

So that the more refined clientèle don't have to drink in the public car

I've had a Nissan saloon for 20 years, having previously had small hatches - ahem. The boot is massive, but it won't carry bulky items - great for 3m planks of wood though. It does, however, easily transport 4 adults with 4 trail bikes (on roof) in comfort, and all the shizzle swallowed up in the boot.

As said earlier, it passed the push chair test with ease - just swallowed it, and the same with wheel chairs - just no faffing !

Nissan soon stopped selling them and replaced with the Qashqai (which we have also) which is really practical - took a king sized bed divan no problems.

@fossy - 3m planks... really? I can get a 2.4m length in my Mondeo but not much more and it's a big car

which Nissan was it?

Still a fair few saloon cars

I believe that American saloons have to have an internal release for this reason. I could be imagining it though.

Yup.... Some couple got kidnapped and subsequently lobbied the industry to fit an internal release as standard.

Funny how the group fear of being stuck in the trunk can bring about such change, but the fear felt by kids, teachers and parents when schools get shot up changes nothing.

Re electric estates - I also want one - am annoyed at the current choice. Loads of huge bloated crossover things which turn out to have small, impractical boots - not very "long" (front to back) and they all have a load lip, and the seats don't fold properly flat. Or the Tesla model3 which is - yup - a saloon except it's designed to look like a hatch. Weird.

I couldn't bring myself to own an MG, even if it is good so that rules the MG estate out.

I did read that BMW will be making an i5 touring, and VW will be making an electric Passat that will hopefully include an estate, so they're coming - just not yet.

I did read that BMW...

You don't need to wait for an electric estate, the I4 is of the "mondeo large hatch" variety"

My last couple of cars have been saloons. Older second hand they were way cheaper that the estate versions, so long may people keep buying them new so I can get them at 10+ years old...

@fossy – 3m planks… really? I can get a 2.4m length in my Mondeo but not much more and it’s a big car

Mine'll take 5.4m lengths, obviously with a 'bit' stuck out back...

And if I need to take/collect the dogs, on the back seat.

Do this with yer poxy saloon 😀

You don’t need to wait for an electric estate, the I4 is of the “mondeo large hatch” variety”

Yes, that is at the top of the wish list for that very reason.

so long may people keep buying them new so I can get them at 10+ years old…

Boggo saloons & hatches being phased out in favour of SUV's I'm afraid - say bye bye to mondeo & mazda 6 in all versions this year I think.

The Baddies cut those out though – have you not read any Jack Reacher books!?

But, but.....that's illegal! They'll be in so much trouble if the authorities find out.

I'm a big fan of estates but I did really enjoy my old Volvo 850 saloon.

-Less road noise, and music/sound quality
-Could still carry long bits of wood or poles with ski hatch or seats folded
-Boot was massive in terms of volume, but just restrictive with bulkier items (roof rack helped with that mind)
-Being able to get something out the boot without losing all the cold or warm air from the cabin
-Sitting on the boot lid was nice - I remember watching the Vulcan do its final flight sat on it

I value the ability to carry bulky things these days over those, so it'll be an estate, MPV, SUV, or van for me in the future.

@ElShalimo, last model Primera. Drop back seats, drop front passenger seat and a 3m plank will go from boot to dash - not something you do with lots of them though. A 2.4m plank stretches straight from rear of boot to arm rest in front, so can get two people in as well (as done yesterday) !

PS I need that key ring !!

Saloons are fine if the back seats go down, can be a PITA if not though. Personally prefer estates/vans as my job/hobby involves carrying lots of crap about.

I was looking at the Infiniti Q50 hybrid as a potential replacement for my Nissan at some point - but the back seat's don't go down due to the battery. Darn it, insane performance too.

“I couldn’t bring myself to own an MG, even if it is good so that rules the MG estate out.”

You should actually try one. I’ve got an MG 5lr. It’s actually a pretty damn good car.

You should actually try one. I’ve got an MG 5lr. It’s actually a pretty damn good car.

I’m sure it is. This isn’t an objective thing for me, just a bit of slightly silly sentimentality. For me it’s more that I worked for MG Rover for a while on its later days and now having seen it taken over by a Chinese company, the UK operation shut down and just the brand taken and makes me sad. If the company had used a new name of their own rather than one that had been bought from the UK it’d be different.

Nicest car I've ever owned was a saloon. 96 Honda Accord. Beautiful car. Lovely and comfy, drove well, reliable and just brilliant. It wasn't the fastest car I've owned, nor the most dynamic, but it was lush. Wish they still made them.

Skoda Superb. Twin opening at the rear so you can open it as a boot or a hatch.

Tesla model 3 has an emergency release inside the front boot (frunk/froot). Given the size of the space the baddies will have chopped you up to fit you in so you probably won't need it...

Shoot, there is an emergency release in my boot, probably fits 3 to 4 folded up dead adults in it ! 🙂

Probably, I said....

The US Federal spec Lotus Elises also have the mandated emergency boot release! 🤣

Wouldn’t a baddie just cut off the release before stashing someone in there? Is this a safety measure to help with idiots locking themselves in their own boots accidentally or just baddies with a lack of forward planning capability?

The number of saloons sold vs other body types tells you that the general populous has also come to that conclusion.

Ford America no longer makes any saloon cars, with the exception op the Mustang, which is a World car.

Don’t get me started on “crossover SUVs”, all the practicality of a saloon but don’t worry it has the handling of a 4×4. Literally what is to like?

In the case of my EcoSport, everything. I’m prepared to bet that, over the last six years, I’ve driven more vehicles, in greater variety and models, than you’re likely to in your entire life; over the course of just two years I covered over 100,000 mile driving an average of three different vehicles a day, five days a week, which gave me unprecedented opportunities to see what all the different vehicles, cars, SUV’s, crossovers, vans, (even an ambulance), were like to drive, and my ST-Line EcoSport is what I actually bought. It’s surprisingly quick for a 1.0 litre car, has more than enough space for my needs, is comfortable and has all the equipment I need. With the possible exception of front parking sensors - it’s ten inches wider than my old Octavia, with very short front and rear overhang, so the front corners are very difficult to judge. It certainly handles better than the Octavia did.

I can promise you that I would never, under any circumstances, own a BMW, for example. And it’s highly unlikely that I would ever consider a Mercedes, either, but for different reasons.

(which also goes for driving with the windows open, yet I see people in modern cars which must have working aircon with their windows open on the motorway frequently)

I’ve never understood this habit, however someone I work with cannot, will not drive with the windows up! It’s even worse when someone in the back opens the windows, because you then get a deeply unpleasant pulsing, fluttering sort of effect, which is a truly horrible experience. Anyone trying it in my car will find me pulling over at the first opportunity, and explaining that they have two options: 1) they have the windows closed, or 2) they walk. 🤬

Sorry to piss on your Ecosport chips, but:

EcoSport - 1,765mm wide
Octavia mk1 - 1,731 mm wide
Octavia current - 1,829 mm wide

Which version of the Octavia do you mean? 10 inches difference doesn’t make any sense, that’d be an absolutely huge difference

I was looking at the Infiniti Q50 hybrid as a potential replacement for my Nissan at some point – but the back seat’s don’t go down due to the battery.

A pal bought a 335d saloon s/h and rang me to ask how the seats go down.

Turns out his car didn't have the option, nor could he blame the dealer as my pal just assumed "they all did" so didn't ask/check...

Sorry to piss on your Ecosport chips,

I remember someone telling Countzero he had overestimated his girth on a previous thread last year, and posting the figures to back it up, as you have. An odd thing to get wrong again.

Boggo saloons & hatches being phased out in favour of SUV’s I’m afraid

Ford don't even offer the Focus in North America anymore in any flavour.