[Closed] Salmond steps down!

Shame, despite voting No, i thought he was very good.

I was.

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Now who are the albaphobes going to vent their spleen against?

+1 Drac!

Yet more threads 🙁

Who.?

Back underneath his slimey rock in the swamp. That's where he's going...

Hmm must have been that whole crate of lemons he's been forced to suck on this morning! Don't worry they'll dredge up somebody else to blame the English!

Surprised. Then again he went full on for victory and seemed to have convinced so many people the Yes would win that maybe his credibility is shot - why should they believe him if he tried to lead an independence campaign again?

Not having a go, just wondering

You realise the man's almost 60? And Scottish! He's allowed to retire before he dies.

I think he's done rather well, always stood for what he believed in when many couldn't even see a vision.
Good leader, not the most comprehensive but folks believed in him and his ideals.

Happy to have at least seen him able to fight, stood up and was counted when it mattered.

He's left a legacy and chaos in his wake mind, but then he's still around to help pave the way for future leaders to take up the party line.

At least he hasn't sunk off like Blair nor Brown.

Shame he didn't step aside before the run up to the big day. His insincere, sweaty protestations cost us many votes. An assured safe pair of hands, Sturgeon would have been a better bet.

It was a vote for the future. Unfortunately the elder generation couldn't see that. An opportunity missed the likes of which I'll not see again on my lifetime....not that I'm bitter.

Look forward to your risk-taking visionary status when you're 'older' Merak 🙂

It's true that of the older generation, majority would be in the No camp which must have been hard to budge. Why would that be though? I might have been the same in their position..

Ah well, at least it will stop me wondering to myself exactly how long it would be before I tired of punching this:

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Another angle, just so you can see what I'm on about:

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Salmond steps down

Oh NO, I mean YES

Thought he was political naive to not think he would need to address the currency issue with a constructive plan that would appease those with concerns & also not to expect the 'establishment' to throw everything it could at him. At times it felt like the best he could was say '**** you' we are gonna do this. That appeared to work for the male yes vote but I read that it was the female no vote that swayed it & they weren't buying the dream.

I found myself writing this about him.

Unklehomer is sad to see Salmond go. I disagreed about Scottish Independence, and I'm glad it didn't happen, but I was also jealous Scotland had a strong counter politic which had the strength and power to threaten to tedious same old same old of Westminster. They have a representative Parliament elected by representative means. They are progressive in their socialism in a way utterly and embarrassingly lost to the UK labour party. Salmond, while imperfect and belligerent in his pursuit of the goal of independence, has played a big part in that.

The conviction and stubbornness of the celtic nations acts as a moderating effect on the nasty, selfish inward looking tone which has been seeping into English politics for the last few years. I believe Scotland won last night, but if I'm honest I believe we (England) won much, much more.

We are risking our NHS, we have given away our public transport, surrendered our town centres and communities. Large companies & supermarkets with limitless lawyers and resource can wear down the planning departments who are duty bound to fight for us on meagre budgets by comparison and dictate the shape of our infrastructure.

We are encouraged at every turn into putting the self above others. We are encouraged to blame others, and take delight in it. If we give in to that then we become the only one fighting for our cause. But if we shout for everyone, then everyone, everyone, is shouting for us.

Single minded and blinkered Salmond may have been, but in a way we could do with more Salmonds, not less. He has made Scotland better. I, desperately, want someone to make Britain better, for all.

It's a bit idealistic, and I've had wine, but I stand by it. I'll miss him, and we could do with more like him. I await your flames, obviously.

Not from me. Nail / head interface.

he was way more popular than the westminster tribe and there were no calls for his head either

Not sure why he resigned or why so many english folk hate him

he was obviously a very talented and driven person, virtually dragged the snp from a bunch of misfits wannabes to the party of government in scotland on his own. The to get to within a whisker of achieving his life long ambition only to see it fail because of his own inabilities/policies/narrow mindedness must be pretty tough to bear.

kcal wrote

t's true that of the older generation, majority would be in the No camp ...I might have been the same in their position

You're fooling nobody old man 🙂

@JY - he would not have been so popular when, if he Yes camp had won, they realised that they had been properly led up the garden path.

The maths have never stacked up. Can't remember which commentator summed it up so succinctly but they said that the whole thing had been costed on unicorn dust and sunshine backed by the bank of confidence.

This is what ultimately cost him. It was not a fear campaign by Westminster - the sums were either very very vague or based on the premise that oil will continue to sell for $100 per barrel or more for the next 1000 years.

As to why he resigned - outside of the SNP who would work with him now. He has royally pissed off just about everyone except his supporters - Scots included.

I heard a rumour today that he would have gone even if the Yes camp had won as he would have found it very difficult to continue once the electorate realised that actually Scotland couldn't use the £ (in any secure meaningful way), that the EU would have demanded they apply for membership and that they had been sold a sack of lies about the finances.

I was only half joking up the page- he's 59 years old, his wife's 77, how much longer was he going to lead the party? 2 years of referendum campaigning on top of 7 years as first minister following basically half a lifetime rebuilding the SNP, no small job turning it into something that wins elections. He's overdue a mug of horlicks and a round of golf.

Also he's a Hearts fan, and that sort of things wears a man down.

Classy. Very classy.

Not sure why he resigned or why so many english folk hate him

Or why so many Scots didn't share his vision of an "independent" Scotland ?

I suspect most 'english folk' have no opinion of Alex Salmond.

Unklehomered that's what I would have said if I was more articulate than I am .
It is a shame there are not more like him both sides of the border.

I suspect most 'english folk' have no opinion of Alex Salmond.

Disappointed to see him go.

Despite being in the No camp I'm also an SNP voter and I think him and his party have done a great deal for Scotland.

Plus I'd like to have seen him stay on to hold Westminster to their "vow".

But yeah he is 60 and the past three years must have taken a fair toll.

I have no time at all for his politics and am delighted the No vote won.

Having said that though, he battled and worked very hard for what he believed was best for Scotland. He, and other politicians too for all the abuse they take, have worked their socks off recently in this referendum.

He's obviously emotionally and physically shattered and I hope he enjoys a well earned retirement and gets to spend some quality time with his wife.

Yes that is what the papers and the threads on here , and indeed this one, have shown

27 people have posted on this thread, it doesn't quite add up to 'most english folk'.

he should have retired 12 months ago, would have saved the scots millions on a wasted election, and a failed idea by one man out to get a place in the history books.

its job seekers allowance for him.

Very sad he's going. I'm not sure ms sturgeon can fill his shoes. John Swinney is a decent guy, but he's had one failed bite at the cherry. We must hope that there are some bright young things coming through on all sides to fill Eck's void.

donald wrote:

You're fooling nobody old man

oi! I'll take my stick to you mate 🙂

it doesn't quite add up to 'most english folk'.

Im English and wasnt a fan but I admire him. Shocked and saddened a wee bit that hes stepping down.

Chapeau Alex Salmon.

27 people have posted on this thread, it doesn't quite add up to 'most english folk'.

Graham S +1.

I think people disliked that smug little smile he has when, thinking 3 sentences ahead of what he's actually saying, he's laughing at his own wit.
None of this alters the fact that he and Sturgeon are both extremely able and were a complete blast of fresh air after Mc-cliche and McConnel. Joanne Lamont is like a wifie who's just had her washing shat on by a passing seagull.

If Sturgeon gets the nod for top job which I think she will, Lamont somehow holds onto hers and Davidson... well who else would do that job. Three main parties in Scotland could be led by women, wonder if that would be a world first.

Ok, English point of view if you want one.

Very pleased that the Union is saying together for now.

I was tired of hearing how an independent Scotland would keep the pound (despite the Treasury saying no) / join the EU (despite the EU saying no).

Couldn't see how it would all stack up and therefore found it hard to believe anything that AS said.

Probably didn't listen hard enough from the south of England as a) I didn't see how I could influence the vote and b) my main concern is getting out of Britain before it leaves the EU (which would be a little more likely if Scotland left the Union).

I do feel a little bit sorry for AS as this is something he's obviously been working for. Hope he enjoys his retirement and glad to be hearing nothing from him for a while.

Hope this helps.

27 people have posted on this thread, it doesn't quite add up to 'most english folk'.

Or many members especially when you take away the scottish ones who have replied.

Ok, English point of view if you want one.

Is it the official one ?

I was tired of hearing how an independent Scotland would keep the pound

They'd have had even less support if talked about not keeping the pound so could never allow that to be seen as a considered option.

ernie_lynch - Member
Ok, English point of view if you want one.
Is it the official one ?

No, just mine. Perhaps I should have said 'one English point of view if you want one'. I forgot that there are better pedants than me (just for a minute) - dammit.

Cameron: I will not resign if Scotland becomes independent.

Salmond: Resigned when he couldn't deliver what he believed in.

Whom do you respect more? I know my answer.

Maybe the sums didn't add up, but I'm sure they would have worked something out. Several ex-British colonies are now prospering (not that Scotland are a colony) post independence. If they could work out their problems 50 years ago the Scots would have found a way to make it work in this day and age.

Meanwhile at Westminster, more of the same bullstuff.

I do hope Westminster politicians don't disappoint.

Whom do you respect more? I know my answer.

Cameron still had a country to ru[s]i[/s]n either way.

Can't say I'm sad to see him go, his big ego ride has failed to achieve his aim. In massaging his ego he's put a huge expense and managed to cause divisions within both Scotland and to an extent the wider UK that will take time to heal.

I don't think leading a party that has one single aim; to achieve Scottish independence and pursuing that aim to the best of your ability could be called an ego trip. He has a smugness that much is true.

Cameron would have gone if the referendum has been lost - but before the vote he had to say he wouldn't so people wouldn't be encouraged to vote yes to get rid of him.

They'd have had even less support if talked about not keeping the pound so could never allow that to be seen as a considered option.

I think this is right, he took the political judgement that taking the hits on his pound position was better electorally than the alternative. He ducked and dived like a master, but some blows got through. I, unlike some, don't blame for this, it is part of politics. Leaders sometimes have to do this to effect the change they believe is required and I have no doubt he believed in an independent Scotland. There is no doubt he is a considerable political operator and should be lauded accordingly.

Perhaps if the ego wasn't in the way, the deceitful one woild have prepared for independence properly instead of relying in lies and deceit. The people of the UK deserved more and in the end, despite much in his favour, he blew it.

Lauded accordingly - as the man who wouldn't give a straight answer? Prepared to lie to achieve his aims? What kind of praise is that worth?

Well he strikes me as a pretty decent sort of bloke, and one who knows a think or or two about life in the real world. Not many of those in politics.

That is where I disagree with you - THM - whilst I completely agree with most of your economic analysis - I disagree with your political analysis. I think you putting too much blame on Salmond, much of the blame falls the opposition for failing to land the blows. He took a gamble like the best politicians often do, and he didn't quite pull it off - but he didn't have a great hand, the referendum was 10 years too late.

I did'nt always agree with Salmond, but he worked hard and transformed the SNP and delivered a referendum. He can go with his head held high.

THm perhaps you have a nickname for Cameron or Milliband now that they've broken their "vow"

And complaining about a politician having an ego is like complaining about a footballer's interior decor taste.

Fraser Nelson, the Spectator, puts it better than me, but I guess that is why he is an editor and I crunch numbers.

Alex Salmond has proved himself the most effective party leader in Europe, let alone Britain. He has just run a terrifyingly effective campaign, perhaps the best I will ever witness. I could not disagree more with his aims, but to me that makes his achievement all the more remarkable.

I doubt any other politician could have sold such a bad idea to 45 per cent of Scots. He ran rings around his opponents, outsmarting them all. He was so damn infuriating because he was so damn good: able to use humour, anger, audacity and caution when each was required. I can’t think of many politicians with his versatility. As a unionist, I’m delighted that the sharpest fang in the SNPs mouth is being extracted. Or is extracting himself.

Anyone who remembers John Swinney’s leadership of the SNP will know what the party is like without Salmond in charge. But as a journalist, I’ll miss the one of the most extraordinary politicians I have ever met. The union will be safer without him. But politics will be a lot more boring.

It is a touch hyperbolic but that's journalism for you.

The NO campaign was crap, I agree Mefty and the sight of CMD, EM and NC in panic mode was shocking. But I have been consistent form the start (and as someone who is in favour of localised power) at my hatred of AS's lies. Even before the Book of Dreams I watched him use manipulation and deceit as the principle weapons of bullying others. Hence I have never had any time for him. I hate dishonesty and deceit and bullying. Watching him completely manipulate the debate - with considerable success as the Osbourne thread showed - made me sick of what politics has become. We are meant to be proud and praise people who deliberately deceive and lie to achieve their goals?? Sorry, but I do not swallow that. I am ashamed of that not proud of it.

Tbh his campaign was full of contradictions, so honest but the words........

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Churchill was one of the greatest deceivers, it is sometimes required - but I am afraid I see it as failure of his inquisitors, he went all in on a busted prospectus and nearly got away with it - and don't pretend more work would have produced a better prospectus. I too prefer my political leadership straight, but you sometimes have to appreciate the baddie's performance.

. I hate dishonesty and deceit and bullying

No, the idea of a fairer society built on a foundation of deceit and lies, doesn't wash.

I had the debate with three MPs two weekends ago about why are they so impotent when faced with a Salmond or a Farrage. Very weak answers. It's a problem with modern politics especially as BS fits well with twitter and Facebook.

I am not a banker. But banks (can) provide benefits to many, so reject your assumptions anyway. I have seen that happen in many emerging economies.

Cameron: I will not resign if Scotland becomes independent.

Salmond: Resigned when he couldn't deliver what he believed in.

Whom do you respect more? I know my answer.

first comment from the resident Scot at my work was " I heard he was in ill health"

I am not a banker. But banks (can) provide benefits to many, so reject your assumptions anyway. I have seen that happen in many emerging economies.

Either way

I am [s]not[/s] a [s]b[/s]****er.

Divided a country on his party's single policy politics, whilst failing to enact any of the powers bestowed on the Scottish Parliament or giving serious answers to serious questions. Glad the odious man has gone. And I would have been happy with a yes vote!

he didn't have a great hand, the referendum was 10 years too late.

You think that 10 years ago when Labour were in power, still popular, and about to win a third term with a comfortable majority, and the economy was 'booming', would have been a better time for Salmond to win a referendum in Tory free Scotland, than now when the Tories are in Westminster and so lacking in support that they have to rely on a coalition with a now totally discredited minor party, as they implement deeply unpopular "austerity measures" ? 😯

Don't think independence was ever on the cards in the current climate. He needed something external that could help power the campaign. Most successful independence referenda in other countries have been in response to geopolitical events, usually major ones. Salmond didn't have that at all and I think there's a limit to how far he could drive things in that events-vacuum.

Massive effort from him all the same - you can only pish with the dick you've got and he seized the opportunity.

ernie_lynch - On reflection, probably not, I had limited my thinking to more oil to fill the hole in the economic case.

I'd just like to point out the first post on here suggesting he'd be going soon 8)

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/osbourne-says-no-to-currency-union/page/357#post-6324959

I never particularly liked him but he obviously was a capable politician and as others have said transformed the fortunes of the SNP. It will be interesting to see what happens to the party now, having lost such a forceful leader and also having lost its chance to achieve its primary goal (at least for quite some time).

I had partly suspected he wouldn't stay for long whichever way the referendum went. On the other hand with a no vote I couldn't decide whether he'd go immediately or stay long enough to lead wrangling further devolved powers from Westminster - maybe trying to be remembered for something more than being the SNP leader who nearly but didn't quite get what they wanted. To be honest, even as someone who isn't an SNP supporter I think it'd be to Scotland's advantage if he stayed involved in the devo max negotiations even after the SNP conference.

We'll at least the smug bar steward is gone. Although he was certainly a good politician and better than the current pm et al.

The writing was on the wall for him as soon as the referendum was announced as it was never going to realistically be a yes vote, then add to the fact that his own constituency voted 60% no it was his final nail in the coffin for him.

Unfortunately we're now most likely going to be stuck with Nicola (I haven't got a clue what I'm talking about) Sturgeon fronting the SNP given there's nobody else to do the job now fat eck is gone.

ernie_lynch - Member

he didn't have a great hand, the referendum was 10 years too late.

You think that 10 years ago when the economy was Labour were in power, still popular, and about to win a third term with a comfortable majority, and the economy was 'booming', would have been a better time for Salmond to win a referendum in Tory free Scotland, than now when the Tories are in Westminster and so lacking in support that they have to rely on a coalition with a now totally discredited minor party, as they implement deeply unpopular "austerity measures" ?

Yeah, well he could have run the arc of prosperity argument, plus it was after we went into Iraq, so maybe it wouldn't have been a dead duck, but frankly we would be having an argument about hypotheticals as a result of an off the cuff comment I made based on oil - which would only really be attractive to those who suffer from what the Norwegians describe (loosely) as "fear of the sheets syndrome"

Divided a country on his party's single policy politics,

whilst failing to enact any of the powers bestowed on the Scottish Parliament

or giving serious answers to serious questions.

Glad the odious man has gone. And I would have been happy with a yes vote!

And also why half of Scotland would have been happy to disassociate with a country that contains you

Unfortunately we're now most likely going to be stuck with Nicola (I haven't got a clue what I'm talking about) Sturgeon fronting the SNP given there's nobody else to do the job now fat eck is gone.

She seems to be even more well thought of than Salmond.

[IMG] [/IMG]

TiRed - Member

Divided a country on his party's single policy politics

1) The SNP have been running the country for 7 years; nobody can consider them a single issue party. In fact, we've just seen there is more support for the SNP in parliament, than there is for independence!

2) The SNP grew out of the scottish desire for independence, not the other way round. It's something that existed long before Salmond was born. He didn't create a cause; he chose to lead one that was there already. So if there's a divide, it obviously can't be of his making, unless amongst his various talents is time travel.

It's simply ignorance to say that the SNP is a single issue party. It's just factually untrue. They're a long established typical centrist European party with extensive experience in government.

bikebouy - Member
I think he's done rather well, always stood for what he believed in when many couldn't even see a vision.
Good leader, not the most comprehensive but folks believed in him and his ideals.

Happy to have at least seen him able to fight, stood up and was counted when it mattered.

He's left a legacy and chaos in his wake mind

ChubbyBlokeInLycra - Member
you, according to you, lunch with "senior Tory MPs"

BS - one labour, two Tories at an event promoting investment in third world actually. Problems with that?

You, according to you, made money out of currency speculation in the run up to the referedum.

True, when faced with challenges, you can turn then to your advantage and learn from them, or moan about them on the internet. I shared an idea where you could increase you investment substantially. What was your choice?

Either you're not a financial services parasite

BS - just use my education. Parasite? Nice BTW. I assume that you have never taken out a loan or used a credit or debit card? It would be very hypocritical to support the parasites after all.

in which case your earlier posts mark you as a liar

BS - Nice again. You are a real charmer (have you read the forum rules?)

Not looking for a discussion here, just pointing out your bullshittery

Are you AS disguise? This is his tactic, Talk BS and try not to debate it, because he knows he is wrong from the start.

Anyway, pleasant original post???? You will get over the result in time. Good luck with that.

which would only really be attractive to those who suffer from what the Norwegians describe (loosely) as "fear of the sheets syndrome"