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I thought the idea was that products generally get better each year, so what's going on with mountaineering Salopettes....?
When I bought my last pair almost a quarter of a century ago it was pretty simple. 3 layer Goretex, body extends way above the waistline front and back - supported with a set of decent broad elasticated braces which held them up and stopped snow getting inside when you take a big crash off piste. Full length side zips (give or take 5 cm at the top which meant you could easily get them on and off over ice boots or ski boots. Could probably put them on over crampons too if you really wanted to. The lower cuffs were wide enough for ski boots but tight enough for front pointing. Obviously there were built in gaiters to stop powder getting in your ski boots. Reenforced patches on the inner ankle/calf to protect from crampons. Pocket for cards/cash. You could open the side zips insanely wide for ventilation uphill.
That was it, job done. Pretty much perfect for mountaineering, ice climbing and skiing.
Alas the last 5 years mine are showing their age and the arse leaks when you sit on a wet chairlift, and the knees leak when you kneel in snow. In sub zero temps they's still the dog's bollocks, but any wet water about and no good. So I've been looking for some new ones for the last 4 or so years....
It's like living in an alternate reality, the absolute dross that is out there. Arc teryx themselves decided to upgrade the model I had by removing the full side zip and replacing it with a stupid little ankle zip and then an upper ventilation zip. WHY, why would you change an excellent design and make it shit? It's no longer possible to put the trousers on or off over ice boots or ski boots. How TF can you advertise some thing as suitable for mountaineering and ski touring if you have to take your shoes off each time you need to put your waterproofs on or off. This year they have finally realised the stupidity of the design and have reverted to a semi full length zip... but attached the rear braces to the side of the trousers instead of the back and made the back really low so snow comes in in a wipeout. They've also replaced the front Goretex panel with some godawful tight sportsbra attachment thing. I've got a tiny 38/40" chest and the size large is too tight on me to fit any decent insulation underneath.
I've looked at North Face, Revolution Race, Norrona, etc etc. They have a huge variety of brilliant looking kit which is advertised for skiing and mountaineering- none of which has a decent side zip.
Berghaus is the same.
Montane and Rab seem to be the only companies that haven't gone down this avenue but the fit on the Montane is just weird and they both have ridiculously tight bib sections. Clearly I've put on the stack of weight over the last 20 years, but the old Arc Teryx ones fit perfectly. How have Montane and Rab managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by replacing non stretch Goretex panels with stretchy fabric panels which are MORE restrictive and don't allow clothes underneath. Yes I'm fatter, but not so fat that I shouldn't fit in a size large.
Anyway, I'll shut up. Before I take a knife to the Rab Latoks, does anyone know any outdoor gear manufacturers (apart from Keela which are too warm and heavy) that does a decent pair of mountaineering sallies with full side zips?
Paramo do some (Enduros) but they're a bit pricey (£450 rrp), full side zip and basically immortal as they can be proofed again and again.They will also do repairs at a reasonable price, may be warm so go and try them on.
Mountain Equipment?
I took a punt on the Keela ones for a second pair to use on days when I'm not worried about weight. I thought I couldn't really go wrong at the price (ended up being about £120 I think). They are bomb proof but they seem to be basically non-breathable and the fit is huge.
Paramo salopettes are excellent in the snow but useless in the rain. I love mine for winter climbing and ski touring but if I think the walk in may be wet I take the old ME ones I have.
basically immortal
Not if you use them winter climbing they're not!
I hear you on function and durability being second to a weight figure in a review being 13g less than the competitor, fashion dominant over function, and some kit that's clearly not really been on a process of refinement on the hill by folk who actually use it....but hey, pretty colour wins sales.
@Spin - would the Keela Pro salopettes be okay for downhill skiing on warmer days? I do red/black runs and rarely go off piste.
I was looking for some new walking overtroos and also need some new softshell/thin ski trousers to replace ancient knackered old Rab softshell ones. They look like they could double up and do both jobs
would the Keela Pro salopettes be okay for downhill skiing on warmer days? I do red/black runs and rarely go off piste.
Yes, I think they'd be ok for that. You can wear them without leggings underneath and they are easy to vent.
I actually think piste skiing would be one of the things they'd be ok for. That and standing around in the cold and wet!
Not if you use them winter climbing they're not!
You dancing on them with your crampons on and leaving the remains on the snow? Take the remnants home and they can be repaired for a reasonable cost (compared to the cost of new). The service is quite good (I had to use it after a close encounter with a gas stove melted part of a sleeve). I may also have been known to trip over my feet whilst wearing big boots and crampons, so far I've avoided spearing my leg wear.
I concur with the OP. I have some Spray way mountaineering salopettes I bought 97/98ish and nothing I've bought or seen since has come close.
Maybe I was unlucky with my Paramo trousers but I found them to be useless and using nikwax was marginal at best. Got a wet arse everytime I sat down in them. Great that you can see them up again, but that was after every outing with crampons!
You dancing on them with your crampons on and leaving the remains on the snow?
The fabric in the knees wears out, the press studs stop working, they pick up rips from crampons/rock and eventually the zips pack in, just like most things with a zip.
You could get all those things repaired but it starts to be good money after bad when a zip is £105 for paramo to do it, a bit less from other repair places.
They're pretty durable but not indestructible and the water resistance really starts to suffer once the fabric gets heavily worn. I reckon I get about 7 or 8 years of fairly regular winter use (most weekends) out of a pair before it's not worth fixing them anymore which is definitely better than goretex.
Mountain Equipment make something that sounds exactly what you want but they're £550.