You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Are you allowed to take one more passenger in a vehicle than there are seatbelts? If so, what are the conditions?
I am asking because, in the event we have visitors fro overseas, and it means exceeding our passenger capacity by 1, I am wondering if we’re going to be legal using the one vehicle, or if I’ll have to get something bigger.
Illegal. All occupants must have belts.
Number of seat belts equals number of legal passengers.
forget legal, morally why would you - who do you pick to go belt free?
I doubt you can, unless it's an old car.
I've had people briefly in the back of our camper for short/remote journeys, but these days wouldn't do any real journeys without belts.
Hire something if you need more seats, I recently hired from Green Motion for £4/day. It doesn't have to be expensive.
If so, what are the conditions?
You need to time travel back to 1978 in which case it’s perfectly fine to bundle ten of your mates into your Dads Cortina.
‘All occupants must have belts’
*if fitted*
who do you pick to go belt free?
Easy. M-i-L.
😉
*if fitted*
Got a link to back that up?
Case in point my OH's fiesta is missing the middle seatbelt in the back as it jammed, cutting it out means it passes the MOT.
It would be still be illegal though to have someone in that seat even though there isnt a belt fitted.
The only exceptions are cars old enough to pre date mandatory seatbelts.
Two months ago, was in a fancy funeral limousine. Circumstances as you'd imagine.
Stretch limousine, so driver + me up front, family in middle seats and extended family in rear seats.
... middle seats didn't have seat-belts. WTF?!
… middle seats didn’t have seat-belts. WTF?!
A sneaky marketing strategy to ensure a steady stream of future clients?
"*if fitted*
Got a link to back that up?"
Here - https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law
Case in point - my campervan has two seat belts upfront and a non seat belt rock and roll bed in the back. As the vehicle left the factory without seat belts in the back - ie I have not modified it to remove the seat belts, I could carry two adult passengers in the rear. I can't foresee me ever wanting doing this, but I understand the law permits me to do so.
Rent a van, throw some beanbags in the back..
Sorted innit.
West Larndarn Cab that.
3 across the back of a smallish car where they've only bothered to fit 2 belts?
Assuming the person without a belt is an adult, is it not their responsibility (legally), not the driver?
If them being there doesn't prevent the people either side using their belts correctly, then they aren't "not using a belt when fitted"
In 1991 it became compulsory for adult rear seat passengers to wear one if fitted. A quick google hasnt found anything since to overrule this
‘All occupants must have belts’
*if fitted*
This is 100% correct - my old 1964 Landy didn't have seatbelts.
Are you allowed to take one more passenger in a vehicle than there are seatbelts? If so, what are the conditions?
I imagine a lot of modern vehicles that don't come with a middle rear seat belt class themselves as having capacity for 4 occupants only.
Exemptions would mainly apply to vintage or unusual vehicles.
Assuming the person without a belt is an adult, is it not their responsibility (legally), not the driver?
It's the passenger's responsibility to put their seatbelt on. But in this case, I think the driver would probably fall foul of a law suggesting they are carrying more occupants than the car is designed for. The passenger can't be found guilty if there is no belt to put on.
Saxon, I find it hard to believe that with all those kids you have never put some in the boot ,cause we have all done that ,haven't we? …#don'ttellyourmum 🙂
What does it say on the logbook?
I've got a Clio cup which only comes with 2 belts in the back despite technically being able to fit 3, it's down as a 4 seater on the V5 to reflect this.
I'd be more worried about an unrestrained passenger flying around in the car in the event of a crash than the legal side of it!
Case in point – my campervan has two seat belts upfront and a non seat belt rock and roll bed in the back. As the vehicle left the factory without seat belts in the back – ie I have not modified it to remove the seat belts, I could carry two adult passengers in the rear. I can’t foresee me ever wanting doing this, but I understand the law permits me to do so.
Sounds like you'd be on dodgy ground to me. Did the van leave the factory with the rock and roll bed?
my little car only has two seat belts in the back. I've looked into it
More Passengers than Seat Belts
If there are not enough seat belts or child restraints in the car for all the passengers, then some may legally travel in the rear of the vehicle without wearing a seat belt. This may be legal, but it is not safe. Between 8 and 15 front seat occupants are killed every year by unbelted rear seat passengers flying forward in an accident.
The safest option is to only carry the same number of passengers as there are seat belts. If necessary, use two cars or make two journeys for the trip.
If you must carry a passenger for whom there is no seat belt, it is better for the heaviest passengers to wear a seat belt, because they would cause more severe injuries to other people in the car if they are thrown about in a crash.
from here
petec - is your little car registered as a 4 seater (see V5)? Alfa Mito's only have 2 rear belts and are registered as 4 seaters, therefore vehicle only insured to carry 4 persons.
Here – <span class="skimlinks-unlinked"> https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law</span>
Case in point – my campervan has two seat belts upfront and a non seat belt rock and roll bed in the back. As the vehicle left the factory without seat belts in the back – ie I have not modified it to remove the seat belts, I could carry two adult passengers in the rear. I can’t foresee me ever wanting doing this, but I understand the law permits me to do so.
The wording is there to keep older vehicles legal (i.e. ones that never had seatbelts because thy weren't needed). For example the number of seats isn't listed on the V5 of my classic MG, but is on my new(er) C-max.
Unless your campervan is old (pre-1987 or 1982 depending on which part of the rules your reading) you have to have seatbelts on all seats.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/47/made
There's also the catchall offences like dangerous driving and unsecured loads which could be applied.
So in a post-1987 campervan with rear seats without seat belts it's illegal to use them whilst moving.
Assuming the person without a belt is an adult, is it not their responsibility (legally), not the driver?
I'd have to look it up to be certain, but I'm pretty sure it's the driver's responsibility. I'm also fairly sure that it's points + fine for the driver if passengers don't wear one.
petec – is your little car registered as a 4 seater (see V5)
bugger
oh well - you live and learn
Depends on the vehicle too. A fiat 500 for example is a 4 seat car so you couldn't put a 5th person in the middle at the back and say theres no belt for then to wear.
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/wearing-seat-belt-and-exemptions
over 14 y/o - your own fault, not the driver
over 14 y/o – your own fault, not the driver
Only for not wearing a seatbelt that is fitted. (There are no points for that); whereas carrying more passengers than the vehicle is designed for is the driver (and I think gets 3 points).
"Unless your campervan is old (pre-1987 or 1982 depending on which part of the rules your reading) you have to have seatbelts on all seats."
if its a campervan that would be 2007,
doesnt make it clever mind. Being honest sitting in the back of most campervans homebrew or factory being belted in is the least of your worries once the fridge comes at your head at 40 miles an hour.
Only for not wearing a seatbelt that is fitted. (There are no points for that); whereas carrying more passengers than the vehicle is designed for is the driver (and I think gets 3 points).
This.
And there will be the same number of seatbelts as the vehicle is designed to take, in case that needs pointing out.
Two months ago, was in a fancy funeral limousine. Circumstances as you’d imagine.
Stretch limousine, so driver + me up front, family in middle seats and extended family in rear seats.
… middle seats didn’t have seat-belts. WTF?!
I don't pretend to know the full details any more, but their was a shift in rules about 2007 in regards to Limos, but at least before this they didn't need to stick to the same seat belt rules as private cars. The rule change was brought in when it started to become popular to stick 20 16 year olds in the back for 'Prom', but AFAIK they're not bound by the same rules as cars.
yep the car must have the seat belts as specified, i had an old car 4 or 5 years back that failed its mot on the middle seatbelt not working. i asked the MOT'er to cut it out, he said, it would fail.. damn expensive them seat buckles when you need one fast ;0(
The law is the least of your worries, one seatbelt could save two lives, the seat occupant and the person in front, people not belted can get ejected from cars in crashes as well. I imagine that your insurer would have something to say too
Hire a people carrier?
yep the car must have the seat belts as specified, i had an old car 4 or 5 years back that failed its mot on the middle seatbelt not working. i asked the MOT’er to cut it out, he said, it would fail.. damn expensive them seat buckles when you need one fast ;0(
Nope.
I drive a citroen C8. Registered as an 8 seater on the V5C. Left the factory with 7 seats. Has been tested many times with only 2 fitted.
MOT can only test what they see, failure to see is not proof of failure.
You need to buy my Land Rover (It is for sale!) 5 seat belts and seats although this could be 6 if the middle front was put back in. 6 sideways in the back.
Number listed on the V5 . None. Boy did that confuse the insurers as they couldn't cope with there being no seat belts for the sideways seats.
Nope.
+1, thats exactly what we did in the fiesta, belt jammed so just cut it out. It is illegal to take passengers in that seat now though
MOT can only test what they see, failure to see is not proof of failure.
Remove the brakes from your car, then take it in for an MOT 😉
Remove the brakes from your car, then take it in for an MOT 😉
But they can't fail you for scored/worn drum brakes for example unless they can see the wear without dismantling anything. They only test that they work.
Technically if they are cut out they should fail on being damaged.
If they are removed the it should not fail and should be noted that they were unable to test the rear xyz seat belt as it was not fitted.