You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I've never liked Micheal O'Leary & now I have another reason not give him my money!
Never flown with them and after seeing that
and I fly regally to Alicante I don't think I'l ever will
Summary please (no tv)
I will never fly Ryanair.
I grew up around aviation. Safety was always number one. If the captain said no go, it was no go.
Ryanair? Captain says no go, Ryanair says, "We'll find someone who will go. Now, you go."
Avoid.
you think it's only Ryanair that fly around on fumes
Spill the beans Kona..
Many airlines run on fumes and call it in. Most of them from Asia, sadly. 'Tis true.
Ryanair are scum. I stand by that.
The organisation I work for stopped all employees flying on Ryanair flights for business because of the various safety concerns, including the lack fuel. If they miss their landing a slot more often than not they do not have sufficient fuel to get to an alternative
Miss their landing spot and tell ATC that they're running on fumes - they'll get a free ride straight in on whatever runway they choose. Seems like it could make for shrewd dealings.
A couple of years ago a BA plane called an emergency due to low fuel at Heathrow, there was also a Virgin plane at Stansted that also called an emergency.
I watched that too, then I went on Ryanair's website where they've rubbished the programme and printed a load of letters between themselves and Dispatches.
I've flown Ryanair many times, never had any problems. Flights always on time, no issues. Years ago I got a return flight to Girona for £8.02 all in. Everything. Flights were 1p, no taxes or charges and back then the booking fee was £4 per sector. Carry on baggage only and I didn't buy any of their coffee either!
Prices have gone up now, you have to pay £7 for web check in (how does that work then?!) and card charges have gone up too. I'd still fly with them though.
Legal requirement is to take off with trip fuel, fuel for an alternate airport, min contingency (5 mins or 5% trip fuel, whichever higher), and 30 minutes final reserve.
It's a bit more complicated than that (you can, for example, go without fuel for an alternate if landing is assured at your destination. It generally isn't, so doesn't happen often, if ever) but that's the précis.
Every airline in the UK (and Europe) is operating to this principle. EasyJet certainly did when I flew for them, and if you wanted to take extra fuel you had to annotate the reason on the flight plan. Having said that, if you filled it up for legitimate reasons (weather etc) questions were never asked. I fly for another European operator now and we take minimum fuel most of the time.
Much that I dislike Ryanair, I doubt it's different there unless they're being pressured into taking min fuel when there's good reason to take more. What is concerning is the attitude taken by the company towards unionisation of the workforce and the threat of dismissal of anyone who raises a safety concern.
If you're really worried about aviation safety, you'd be far better off objecting to the changes to flight time limitations, which allow for a 14 hour shift following 4 hours sleep.
Miss their landing spot and tell ATC that they're running on fumes - they'll get a free ride straight in on whatever runway they choose.
That will work up until they arrive somewhere with a full-on emergency just going off (burning plane on the runway à la Manchester or similar). Then the excrement will really hit the air-conditioning. Relying on others for your own safety will eventually bite you as the odds shorten with each success.
Lots of airlines make decisions based on cost, if anyone thinks Ryanair are any worse they are delusional.
Keep cutting corners to demand permission to land first ... sooner or later one will drop out from the sky but lesson will never be learned.
Life is cheap but let's hope those making the decision or their love ones will be amongst those passengers when it crashes ... feeeellll the painnnn ...
Watching now on ch4 +1 scary!
Have a read of this:
http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-releases-channel-4-dispatches-letters
CaptainFlashheart - Member
Many airlines run on fumes and call it in. Most of them from Asia, sadly. 'Tis true.
Ryanair are scum. I stand by that.
I was in a Malaysia airlines flight from KL in the late nineties which was held for an hour above gatwick. I remember a sharp turn which made me pucker up and a quite sudden landing. Some years later the same flight appeared on TV as evidence the airline was doing this and I believe they were fined, and the rules were changed as mentioned above becuase if this IIRC. Apparently according to the program my plane was practically empty when it landed!
crazy-legs - MemberHave a read of this:
http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-releases-channel-4-dispatches-letters
Yawn! Typical corporate zombie response is to deny everything ... to confuse information.
If they continue with their ways it will crash no doubt about that because the possibility is higher with higher number of planes they have and hopefully someone from his hometown, you know those trouble souls, will string him or his love ones up when that happens.
What is concerning is the attitude taken by the company towards unionisation of the workforce and the threat of dismissal of anyone who raises a safety concern.
This.
@flaperon.
As you clearly are fully qualified to answer my next question please do.
At the weekend we met some people at the races blah blah, anyhow this chap was a flight simulator training officer, or something along those lines. He appeared to know his shizzle, after chatting for a bit he mentioned a list of airlines he wouldn't fly with and had also banned his wife from flying with. This was due to the "lesser" training the pilots receive. Fact or fiction?
Yawn! Typical corporate zombie response is to deny everything ... to confuse information.
Just saying - two sides to every story...
Concorde had a famous fuel emergency when they discovered a fuel leak on a flight from NY to LHR but rather than land at Shannon to refuel the pilot pushed on and landed at Heathrow then the engines cut out as it was taxiing to the stand.
BA came up with some impressive techno-bollocks about the angle of the fuel tanks on the ground and no-one really bothered much about it but legend has it that the plane was minutes away from falling out of the sky.
Pilot got fired.
All airlines do it, it's one of those fine calculations between safety and cost.
14h shift after 4 hours sleep; that's nuts.
crazy-legs - MemberAll airlines do it, it's one of those fine calculations between safety and cost.
I don't know but when pilots come on record to spill the beans that's worrying and all airlines should get a kicking in their backsides if they do so.
Unlike a bus crash or sinking ship, a plane crash is almost a sure thing ... to pick up human pieces.
When I fly it's usually 24 hours flight or more for one journey and to top it up within a month I can fly at least 10 times short journey easy.
I have encountered many hairy moments during landing and immediately after take off with some airlines in the far east ... you might see my previous thread on this few months ago.
The words "Mayday! Fuel emergency!" is the last thing I want to hear on any airline ...
I watched the programme and also read the email exchange between Ryanair and dispatches is it just me or did the email exchange almost exactly replicated an arguement between TJ and don simon?!
Never mind the safety concerns, I wouldn't fly with the because O Leary is an asshole.
Why does it always seem to be Rynair in negative stories?
Whipping boy/media target or is there actually something in it?
..Ryanair telling his pilots to go self-employed.
Ryan Air are in my opinion and in my direct experience the absolute worst and by some margin.
They may offer some cheap seats but they are the most aggressive in finding ways to charge you extra and if you don't book early they can and do charge high prices. The whole attitude and approach of the company stinks.
Never mind the safety concerns, I wouldn't fly with the because O Leary is an asshole.
+1
First against the wall (ok second after Tony Blair) when the revolution comes.....
I never flew with them before, and wouldn't in the future. Someone who treats their own customers with such contempt doesn't deserve my business.
+1 for flaperon on the flight time directive.
Separately, Flaperon I was under the impression that Ryanair was registered in Ireland rather than the UK because it allowed them to run operations in a way that would not be possible for an airline registered in the UK. Any insight on that?
If you're really worried about aviation safety, you'd be far better off objecting to the changes to flight time limitations, which allow for a 14 hour shift following 4 hours sleep.
You'll have no more excuses for skipping the night ride or not coming down the pub then 😯
Since the Channel 4 Dispatches programme (which previously used actors to promote equally false claims about Ryanair’s cabin crew) has published these false anonymous hearsay claims, and the bogus results of an unreliable, fabricated survey prepared by the European pilot trade union club, Ryanair has instructed its lawyers to issue legal proceedings against Channel 4 Dispatches for defamation and Ryanair looks forward to this matter being resolved in the Courts and the safety of Ryanair’s operations being thoroughly vindicated since the IAA has independently confirmed “Ryanair is on a par with the safest airlines in Europe” and the C4 Dispatches programme has produced no shred of evidence to undermine this independent verification of Ryanair’s outstanding safety.
Longest sentence award goes to... 😯
Other airlines are available.
I wouldn't fly with them because I want to land in at least some proximity to the city that the airport bares the name of, not on another continent.
Separately, Flaperon I was under the impression that Ryanair was registered in Ireland rather than the UK because it allowed them to run operations in a way that would not be possible for an airline registered in the UK. Any insight on that?
I assume they're registered in Ireland because, y'know, they're Irish. Think from a flight safety point of view it makes no odds.
I was under the impression that Ryanair was registered in Ireland rather than the UK because it allowed them to run operations in a way that would not be possible for an airline registered in the UK. Any insight on that?
From my memeory of working in ATC in the UK a few years a go the min fuel requirements are an EU thing and not just the UK.
Have been a controller handling Ryanair flights along ith many countless others and in my experience they are no different to any other European carrier. No more pushy than anyone else at getting direct routings etc. If I was a pilot operating on "fumes" I would certainly be asking for some more direct tracks
My biggest concern were the league tables for fuel usage they produced. To my eye they would force pilots in the 'relegation zone' to make calls that they may not be comfortable with, or at very least undue stress. We have a similar system in my workplace, which i disagree with even though i'm generally in the top half of the table. I understand there are pressures on pilots as there are in all jobs, but shaming them to take less fuel does seem a little excessive.
It's not just the pressure they're under (all operators want min fuel taken but they should stand by you if you take more for thunderstorms etc), it's the fact that they often have a very inexperienced first officer fresh out of flight school (which gives them the bare minimum skills to pass the regulatory assessment), paying for their experience (effectively a revenue seat) or on minimum wages. The poor captain works harder as he's effectively flying single pilot. They have antisocial rosters to make use of cheap landing slots and this contributed to fatigue.
Plus the fact that many are self employed contractors with a contract through a third party agency so they can get binned if they step out of line or build up sufficient experience to become worth a few £££ in wages.
I wouldn't fly with them nor would I recommend anyone I knew fly with them as I feel their attitude toward safety/business model isn't what I'd want out of someone who puts safety/customer first.
Bet Ryanair win in court, Mr O'leary never ceases to amaze me with his slippery contempt of those that disagree with him. I find his radio 4 today interviews very enlightening.
Given the state of the world with climate change and all that, don't you think you'd all better of not flying?
I wouldn't fly with them because I want to land in at least some proximity to the city that the airport bares the name of, not on another continent.
This is not only a hacky comment but also a stupid one. Where Ryanair flies to odd airports (because often it flies to th main airport), often they're just as well or better connected to the town they serve than the "main airport" and you get in and out quicker because it's a smaller operation. Equally I often don't want to hang out in whatever the town nearest to the airport is because I'm going to be going somewhere else anyway.
The thing is, most major city's are transport hubs, if you land in the middle of nowhere you have to travel to the city first to get back out if your going somewhere else.
The fact that Ryanair fly to some remote, minor airports hugely misses the point of this thread. I for one will be interested to see how this pans out. I've used RyanAir many times for work and holiday and despite the fact I detest Leary, the service his airline provides is not without merit. Ryanair are all about moving passengers from A to B quickly and relatively inexpensively. I hope they are doing that safely.
This is not only a hacky comment but also a stupid one. Where Ryanair flies to odd airports (because often it flies to the main airport), often they're just as well or better connected to the town they serve than the "main airport" and you get in and out quicker because it's a smaller operation.
Fly into Munich with Ryan and watch the savings on your flight compared to Easy/scheduled airline who fly into Munich proper disappear in coach and train costs. As just one example.
Separately, Flaperon I was under the impression that Ryanair was registered in Ireland rather than the UK because it allowed them to run operations in a way that would not be possible for an airline registered in the UK. Any insight on that?
would they not also want to be based in Ireland vs UK from a corporation tax perspective?
The thing is, most major city's are transport hubs, if you land in the middle of nowhere you have to travel to the city first to get back out if your going somewhere else.
Hahn is a joke. How on earth it's called Frankfurt is beyond me! It's about 100km from Frankfurt!
I hope they are doing that safely
I'd rather not leave flight safety to 'hope'.
would they not also want to be based in Ireland vs UK from a corporation tax perspective?
Perhaps, but as Flaperon answered, the most obvious reason for them being based in Ireland is, um, because they're an Irish company.
Never understood why the Ryanair flight crew stay with the airline, since they're so clearly putting their lives on the line each time they fly.
tax laws innit . Does the owner strike you as a man so proud of his heritage he is happy to pay more tax to the homeland as a altruistic act or does he strike you as someone whose business model is about low costs to maximise profits
Its a tough call that one
I'd rather not leave flight safety to 'hope'.
I expect most of us assume that flying on a scheduled airline is bound up in sufficient rules and regulations that the flight is "safe". I for one don't investigate every airline's safety record or procedures to ensure they measure up to something I'm unqualified to measure. Granted I'd think twice about flying on an airline with an unenviable record of falling out of the sky, but that's not happened in this case.
My comment refers to the fact I hope Ryanair are flying within - if not above - the guidelines laid out by the relevant authorities and will watch this with interest. My ability to define air travel as safe extends little further than counting the number of wings.
Ryan Air is very optimistic in calling Nykoping Stockholm, a good hour on a coach gets you into Stockholm.
About as optimistic as calling Gatwick "London Gatwick" 🙂 Or indeed, "London Stanstead" or "London Luton". Even Heathrow manages to have the most expensive train journey (per mile) in Europe (though to be fair, it's mostly used by business commuters who are back from flogging post-it notes and closing other high-powered photocopier paper supply deals on the other side of the world. The tube or coach is probably much cheaper). I imagine it probably has wifi so that they can immediately open up their non-apple netbooks/tablets/mobile phones and bleat on internet forums about how business class on Virgin or BA is the only way to fly really.
it's mostly used by business commuters who are back from flogging post-it notes and closing other high-powered photocopier paper supply deals on the other side of the world
Surely they'll be picked up by a Limo - public transport is just for the plebs!
😆 @ DD as per...!
The HEXP is indeed stupidly expensive, but it's quick and efficient. However, there are alternatives. Normal trains, tube, coaches etc. Ditto LGW, where there are normal, cheap (in as much as any UK train journey is cheap!) trains as well as the now very disappointing Gatwick Express.
LGW and LHR aren't really "London", I agree. The only one that is would be City, but they are both close enough to the centre to be easily accessible. As shown above, the likes of Frankfurt Hahn really are too far away. Southampton (Lovely airport, BTW) is as far away!
A sedan chair carried by nubile youngsters whose gender will be chosen by the afore hinted at titan of industry.
St Albans to Gatwick is a doddle as you just jump on the Bedford Brighton service.
used to fly ryanair back in the mid 90's dublin/cork-stanstead. Used to love their duty free policy, unlike other airlines they didn't care if you'd already purchased your limit at the airport, how I never got pulled at stanstead struggling through customs weighed down with booty.
LGW and LHR aren't really "London", I agree.
Both probably nearer to the centre in terms of public transport (rather than taxis) than most of the stupid Aussie airports. Brissie excepted, the concept of mass public transport that isn't a bus, and costs less than a taxi ride seems to elude them. I seem to spend as much, if not more, on 4x taxi than the return air fare on some journeys.
I expect most of us assume that flying on a scheduled airline is bound up in sufficient rules and regulations that the flight is "safe"
True to a certain degree, but Flaperon's comment on the flight time directive shows that the rules are not consistent. The UK has a different set of rules governing the duty hours of pilots compared to the rest of Europe.
The Flight Time directive is trying to harmonise those rules (as I understand it) i.e. increase the UK regulation to fall in line with the European one (and of course being an Irish registered airline means you're flight time hours are governed by the EU legislation rather than the UK).
Bottom line is that the move to EU rules will increase the hours pilots have to fly, in some instances potentially very dangerously. There are already studies coming out of the US that show how pilots are 'winking' out during flights due to fatigue.
OK so the UK schedules now in some airlines at least, means that pilots can have a relatively easy life (Mrs GeeTee for instances typically does a 30 hour week) but heck, I'd rather have fresh, under worked pilots than tired and over worked ones any day of the week!
Surely the pilots can have a snooze while the plane's on autopilot anyway or sleep in shifts between the co-pilot and the main man?
The HEXP is indeed stupidly expensive, but it's quick and efficient.
It's quick and efficient...so long as you don't want to go to the centre of London...or the City...or Canary Wharf...
Fly into Munich with Ryan and watch the savings on your flight compared to Easy/scheduled airline who fly into Munich proper disappear in coach and train costs. As just one example.
Or fly into SXF and get into town on a direct train instead of taking a bus to a train. Or fly into Gothenburg City Airport or Rome Ciampino that's closer to the centre than the "real" airports, and smaller so less hassle. As just three examples.
GBurg City is much closer than its counterpart is a bit scary landing there in bad weather 😆
[i]The thing is, most major city's are transport hubs, if you land in the middle of nowhere you have to travel to the city first to get back out if your going somewhere else.[/i]
Only a fool books their flight based on the airports name, it's where it is and where you need to go that counts.
I was working once near Nijmegen. My colleagues had already booked their flights (to Amsterdam). I'd booked mine to Dusseldorf. Why are you flying to Germany they said, when we're working in Holland?
Because the airport is nearer, the road is far quicker and I'll get a better hire car. Neither of them had actually looked at a map.
Only a fool books their flight based on the airports name, it's where it is and where you need to go that counts.
I heard a funny story about a Scandinavian couple who got on a Ryanair flight to Rodez then wondered why they were in the south of France - they'd thought they were going to Rhodes. Booked accommodation there but then booked the wrong flight having got confused with the names.
🙂
Surely the pilots can have a snooze while the plane's on autopilot anyway or sleep in shifts between the co-pilot and the main man?
Yes, you can. Controlled Napping; preferable to the whole crew falling asleep at the same time! However 20 minutes nap in your flight deck position doesn't offset the whole cumulative fatigue that is a feature of many pilots' lives.
I expect most of us assume that flying on a scheduled airline is bound up in sufficient rules and regulations that the flight is "safe".
No, not really. I believe commercial air travel is only second in risk to bicycle travel (on a per journey basis).
Well a Senior Pilot got fired for making this programme ... [url= http://uk.news.yahoo.com/ryanair-sacks-pilot-questioning-safety-tv-151507929.html ]Ryanair sacks pilot for questioning safety on TV[/url]
Ya ... firing the pilot does not win back your safety credibility ... will try my best not to fly with you if possible in my entire life.
Whilst I don't particularly like what I see of Mr O'Leary at least he's honest about his contempt for his customers.
I have seen him time and time again in interviews say along the lines of 'they're paying £1 for their ticket - what do they expect?'.
Far more refreshing than some PR droid spout BS about how valuable their customers are and how much they share their concerns.
As for flying RA - have done before and they were no better or worse than EasyJet et al...