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Just when you think this Government couldn’t get any worse. I despair.
Sickening
The only consolation is that sheer incompetence of the government make it unlikely it will ever happen
Quite possibly the weirdest, and maddest piece of policy being put forward by the government, i'm not even sure it would work in a soap opera!
Have to say though, i still don't understand the whole reasoning for a lot of immigrants trying to get into the UK, as they've come through France and other countries, what is the actual attraction with the UK, i can understand those who have family here, or have some link, but the UK's not exactly head and shoulders above France and the likes?
Someone on the Boris thread called it. New eye-catching (for racist scum) anti-migrant policy to try to deflect. It's shameless, as you'd expect.
Bizzare.
You mean Priti Patel is making her move after the partygate saga!
Christ, if she got in i'd expect finger men and resettlement camps to be on the agenda
The government simply aren't competent enough to even set this policy up. It'll be dropped, I'd put money on it.
We have a failed government.
I do agree that even exploring such a policy shows what utter ***** we have as a government though.
Have to say though, i still don’t understand the whole reasoning for a lot of immigrants trying to get into the UK.....
This isn't about immigrants, it's about asylum seekers and placing them in indefinite detention thousands of miles away on the other side of the world. People not claiming asylum won't be processed in Rwanda.
And why do they seek asylum in the UK rather than other countries? Apart from the possible family/friends/community connections with the UK there are historical and linguistic connections with Britain, the consequences of a vast empire which existed until relatively recent times.
It makes far more sense for an English speaking Afghan/Iraqi trying to escape wars which we helped to start to seek asylum in the UK rather than an other European country.
Furthermore the UK has an extremely long history of providing refuge to those fleeing persecution, right back to Nigel Farage's Huguenot ancestors, or more recently Priti Patel's parents.
Hard as it might seem to some people on here the UK is seen by many people from countries in turmoil as more welcoming to asylum seekers than many other European countries. An image which Priti Patel and this government appear determined to destroy.
If it goes through then expect in the coming years reports of abuse,rape and murder, or disappearance into slavery/sex trafficing of people being sent here.
None of which of course will be levied at the politicians tabling these measures.
We are only a short way from concentration camps. It wouldn't be the first time we have used them.
"Hi Rwanda, can we pretend we're going to pay you to process our refugee claimants, so we can get Boris and Rishi out of the media crosshairs?"
Have Rwanda agreed to this then? When a few other African nations were suggested as the destination a couple of months back, they quickly and correctly told the UK to **** off.
but the UK’s not exactly head and shoulders above France and the likes?
Have you noticed how prevalent the far right are in France? How large a chunk of the vote Le Pen can muster? France is a nice place for a holiday if you're white. Not a great place to be if you're fleeing an oppressive regime. Even without that right wing in power the pressure that support puts on the government means that at an institutional level migrants and asylum seekers are harrassed and abused on a daily basis by the police and local government, who also deliberately hamper and obstruct the agencies that try to support migrants.
I met a senior figure from Medicine San Frontier a few years ago and he was so despairing that the agency is having to provide a frontline service ... in his own country. And that the biggest obstacle he faces in providing that aid is his own government.
Nice place for a bike ride though.
Never happen all smoke and mirrors. What a horrible thing to even suggest doing. How can a child of forced migrants even think of such a thing? Mean and vindictive beyond belief.
I’m always surprised by the level of racist harassment of brown people in France, Spain and Italy by the cops. If I’m noticing it as a white person it must be much worse than I can see. I always assume that’s why they risk the dinghy crossing.
Have Rwanda agreed to this then?
They already have a very similar arrangement with Denmark. I think, as Ernie, suggests you need to have a look at the treatment of asylum seekers in some of our neighbours on the continent,
Jesus christ WTF is this bullshit
Look over there. Dead cat - piles of them. Bet Corbyn murdered them all.
Everyday is 1st April it seems for this government.
A truly heartless action by our inept tory Gov but I never underestimate the depths Bozza, Patel & the rest of the tories will sink to, just to maintain their popularity at the polls and their grip on power.
Fast forward 10 years and we'll see countless cases and claims from wronged asylum seekers in the Courts against this action if it ever comes to fruition.
BBC news reporting that 'Some will be encouraged to stay in Rwanda..'
Evil plan. Utterly abhorrent. A destination well known its for stability & safety.
It will never happen.
It will never happen.
This
100% dead cat to get Johnson party fines off the front pages
Also cost £1.4bn !!!!!!
Makes the Arsenal/Rwanda sponsorship deal look a little off now - "Visit Rwanda" 🤦♂️
However much we might think we live in a nasty racist country, we are still a better option than some European nations, a fact some of us maybe need to bear in mind.
The whole ****ing idea is stupid, and highlights the racist undertones in the way we try to "help" Ukranian refugees compared to those who are not white.
Wasn't it Ascension Island they were going to use last time?
I think they saw the Australian model where you don't let these horrid little people pollute the mainland by keeping them in inhumane conditions elsewhere and if a few get eaten by sharks trying to escape, well, it is probably better than they desrve anyway.
Imagine if the energy expended on trying to arrange this horrorshow was being used to process Ukrainian visa claims.
or more recently Priti Patel’s parents.
I have always wondered if this is a factor in her especially seeming to hate Afro-carribeans. Her family were part of the colonial administrators/middle class merchants expelled by Amin.
Quick, call in the army to straighten bananas and while you're at it get a Bobby on every street corner to raise house prices. They never had potholes on heartbeat.
****s.
I’m out of the country and out of the news. Not sure why I give a shit about Rwanda other than what happened 30 years ago, so it’s not obvious why I clicked this thread.
But OMFG I’ve just read the news about this. Pray to the mighty lord amen that the ****ing government scum go down faster than BHS before I get home and this is just a weird dream.
Shit I might just burn my return ticket and passport.
Isn't the premise behind the potential visit to sunny Rwanda to try and discourage people smuggling?
I can (kind of...) see the idea behind it - why would you pay a people smuggler to get you to the UK when all you'll end up doing is getting a free ride to somewhere with horrendous human rights issues?
I agree that the people smuggling & small boat crossings etc. are getting out of hand but not sure this is the answer.....
As for asylum - Isn't the rule you seek asylum in the first friendly country? From Syria etc. that certainly isn't the UK.
Yes France (and other European countries) have a large far right proportion so you can see why they want out but why is it always little old England?
For the record I don't have an issue with genuine asylum seekers (escaping war torn countries, human rights issues etc.) - but those abusing the system etc is just wrong.
WTAF?
When's the revolution?
It will never happen.
My thoughts exactly when I heard.
Just some soothing, racist 'Take Back Control' noises to get the send-'em-back Brexit Brigade onside for the local elections in a couple of weeks.
Then it'll quietly rot on the big pile with all the other policies that were announced purely to fill the Daily Mail front page the next day
I think they saw the Australian model
Yup, Priti Patel even appointed a former senior Australian government minister to advise:
highlights the racist undertones in the way we try to “help” Ukranian refugees compared to those who are not white.
Very much this IMO.
The whole scheme faces a legal challenge and will be tested in the courts. There is significant opposition within the Tory Party which could cause legislative issues although currently not sufficient to deny the government a majority. And there is of course opposition within the House of Lords.
Dog-whistle policy to distract the 40% of voters who keep them in power from Partygate.
Impossible to put into practice due to various cost / legal issues, ergo it'll never happen.
Until all the other centre / centre left parties agree to reform the voting system and work together as one coalition to oust them, we're stuck in the political quagmire.
It’s probably just a PR stunt to deflect from current wowes. Announce policy knowing it wont stand up in court then do sad camera face saying its all those nasty liberal judges hampering the will of the people.
As a country we do need to do something to manage immigration because the current situation is a mess. We need to understand why all these people who are passing through lots of safe European countries are not settling in any of them and instead coming to enter the UK illegally
@ernielynch, cheers, just wondered as i thought asylum was sought in the first country you enter, so Italy/France/etc, i know some EU countries do a bit of 'assisted' migration for asylum seekers to get them closer to where they want to end up, it's a problem that's always been ignored, bar a shiny looking centre, or policy being brought out.
Personally, i can't see much of an issue with increasing immigration in the UK, we like to whinge about being overpopulated, but we're not really, and future wise, we need to increase a little due to reduced birth rates, we're looking at a real problem forming in about 40 or 50 years time if it keeps going the same way. Bar criminals or the likes, it's not really a negative, we make it a negative in most ways by dividing them up and throwing them around the country, counting on charities and so on to be the support network for those trying to integrate.
Dog-whistle policy to distract the 40% of voters who keep them in power from Partygate.
This issue as a proposal goes way back before partygate, it's part of the Nationality and Boarders Bill which first surfaced last summer.
If you weren't aware it is a reflection on how bad a job the current Opposition is doing.
The reality is the UK doesn't even take in many asylum seekers. The vast majority stop before hey reach the UK.
France 2021 121,554, UK 68,540. And that's up a lot from the usual number to the UK
Sweden took in 90000 in 2021. So the UK doesn't get lots in comparism to other countries
We need to understand why all these people who are passing through lots of safe European countries are not settling in any of them and instead coming to enter the UK illegally
The numbers are above - we don't take as many as the right wing press would have you believe.
And reasons why Britai is seen as a better option are discussed up the thread - family, language, even more racist elsewhere.
If your first reaction to this is that it's unethical - so what, or course it is. If you have friends or relatives that vote Tory then tell them that it's a waste of £1.4Bn by a Govt who won't help people with their fuel bills.
If you weren’t aware it is a reflection on how bad a job the current Opposition is doing.
or an opposition who understand that (outside this forum) this is going to be pretty popular amongst people that vote Labour as well as Tory.
The reality is the UK doesn’t even take in many asylum seekers. The vast majority stop before hey reach the UK.
Or even Europe. Lebanon I believe has the highest amount of refugees in the world, something like 20% of the population including one and a half million Syrians.
Plenty of other poor Third World countries have vastly greater numbers of asylum seekers than any European countries. Countries such as Bangladesh, although I think many people believe it's not the same because the asylum seekers have a similar colour skin as the people of the host country.
Shameful, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought about the racial dimension.
I think Uganda even give land to refugees for free.
We all know what it is. Its all part of the brainfart that is Nationality and Boarders Bill.
Less a policy, more a series of insane racist musings. What would happen if a man in a white van, sat reading the Sun, were thinking out loud in a Maccy D's car park.
Wave machines in the channel? Send them to Ascension Island? Jetski's turning boats back?
... and now Rwanda
None of them ever designed to become reality. Just some dog-whisle bullshit to keep the right-wing reactionaries happy. And each new one means the last one is forgotten
argee
Bar criminals or the likes, it’s not really a negative, we make it a negative in most ways by dividing them up and throwing them around the country, counting on charities and so on to be the support network for those trying to integrate.
That's where the system is broken - there is no way of tracing some of these peoples past - terrorist, rapist whatever, their past can stay hidden.
These are the one I have issues with.
or an opposition who understand that (outside this forum) this is going to be pretty popular amongst people that vote Labour as well as Tory.
It isn't. People in this echo chamber might think that compassion towards those fleeing persecution is unpopular among voters but there compelling evidence from opinion polls that it isn't. I've posted links to polls showing precisely that before but I can't be arsed to dig them out again.
That's the first point, the second point is if you feel you shouldn't oppose the Tories because to do so would be unpopular then just join the Tories, there is no point pretending to be an alternative if you aren't.
Besides, you would probably be far more effective inside the Tory Party. You know all this stuff about having more influence inside than from the outside.
Whats depressing is that if you turn the Five Live phone in on now, the usual suspects are all lapping this 'send 'em back' crap up.
Shoredingers immigrants yet again..
Simultaneously 'taking our jobs' while also somehow 'sitting around on benefits'
The Tory racists are having their tummies tickled before the local elections and they're all rolling over and purring.
I hate this country sometimes
Horrendous
Also I've just listened to Johnson's speech and the Govt is going on the pre-emptive offensive against the legal profession for anticipated legal challenges. The descent into authoritarian populism is not slowing
Utter Scum.
And whilst the racists and halfwits are getting suitably self lubed prior to the elections in a couple of weeks they can quietly take the empties from Downing Street to the bottle bank whilst everyone is looking the other way.
I’ve not read the previous 2 pages but I suspect (hope) they contain sentiment similar to mine
Even by our government standards this is disgusting
I am sickened
Also I’ve just listened to Johnson’s speech and the Govt is going on the pre-emptive offensive against the legal profession
Of course got to get the scape goats line up for when this inevitably turns into a money pit that achieves nothing
This seems pertinent -
https://twitter.com/DavidDavisMP/status/1461741115141505030
I have once again written to my MP expressing my disgust. But rather than the obvious moral outrage, I am complaining about the costs...
60,000 - 100,000 expected to cross the channel fleeing the bloodshed and persecution in war-torn France this year. Tory scum gammon racist Brexit!
60,000 – 100,000 expected to cross the channel fleeing the bloodshed and persecution in war-torn France this year. Tory scum gammon racist Brexit!
Oh hello person who understands nothing regarding immigration or refugees.
I hate having to agree with the Brexit Bulldog.
<Sorry>
border
/ˈbɔːdə/noun
1.
a line separating two countries, administrative divisions, or other areas.
"Panama's western border with Costa Rica"2.
the edge or boundary of something, or the part near it.
"the northern border of their distribution area"verb
1.
form an edge along or beside (something).
"a pool bordered by palm trees"2.
(of a country or area) be adjacent to (another country or area).
"regions bordering Azerbaijan"
boarder
/ˈbɔːdə/noun
1.
a person who receives regular meals when staying somewhere, in return for payment or services.
2.
a person who forces their way on to a ship in an attack.
</not_sorry>
No, I have nothing better to contribute as this is beyond satire, farce, the pale or anything else sensible or otherwise. I'm expecting an announcement any day that we're going to recover the abandoned Lancaster bomber from the moon.
If David Davies can see the flaw in the plan, you really are scraping the barrell.
Will Rwanda process our dead cats too? This is ridiculous and will simply not happen. When you find yourself agreeing with Davies you know someone has lost the plot.
This is as likely to happen as erecting a big barrier in the sea or naval vessels turning back small boats to France.
Starmer's reaction on the news seemed to be "this is so ****ing stupid I don't even know where to begin"
I'm not sure where this certainty that it won't happen comes from, is because it seems so un-British?
Priti Patel has got the the former Australian minister responsible for Australia's overseas asylum seekers detention centres on the case, he seems to have been successful, which presumably is why he has agreed to help.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_immigration_detention_facilities
Well Who'd a thunk it eh?
Priti hires Alexander Downer, one of the architects of/cheerleaders for Australia's "Off-shore migrant misery Islands" as a "Consultant" on migration policy and as if by magic a few months later, the UK comes up with the idea of instant deportation to a country with a poor Human rights history, for Asylum seekers...
This is pure pandering to EDL meatheads and outright Racists...
Culture war distraction, also probably a Dead Cat of course. But that doesn't mean they won't try to push it through, plus I'm sure Gove's got a mate with some planes lined up with a contract for the flights too...
The best way to deal with both issues is keep writing to your local Tory MP with questions about when Bozza is going to go, and offering congratulations on how good a job their continued support/lack of challenge to the leader and his cabinet full of bastards is doing of driving away moderate voters...
"One way ticket" ffs
he seems to have been successful, which presumably is why he has agreed to help.
was successful up until the point that the rapes, murders & child abuse got so bad they had to abandon it and ended up paying $10s of millions in compensation to asylum seekers
was also a disaster when Israel tried it in Rwanda
https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1514567706904780800
appeals to their more racist base, but not the wider public
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1514590971354308610
the astronomical cost, ilegality and human rights record in Rwanda
Kagames CV is
Torture
election rigging
assassination of political opponents (including in UK!)
state sponsored terrorism....
all add up to this being a dead cat with a very short shelf life, ideally enough to see Johnson through next round of fixed penalty notices and local elections
he seems to have been successful
Define successful. Last year Australia's offshore scheme cost several hundreds of millions to process just 250 or so asylum seekers. last year 600 tried to cross the channel in wee boats.
Nothing more than a dead cat thrown on the table to appease and garner support for the may elections from the Brexit faithful red wall voters who will lap it up.
Our local wannabe tory councillor was out n' about in our galloway town this morning trying to drum up support, what he didn't expect was being surrounded outside Tesco's with cries of "*****" thrown at him. (I didn't see it, mum phoned me up)
All his pamphlet says is "vote for me to keep the snp out" and "vote for me to stop an independent Scotland".
I hope the tory's get decimated come may 5th.
https://twitter.com/pritipatel/status/1514584617772273672?s=20&t=DMTQW8ujK1_E-NMMM6Snxg
Difficult to watch this smirking ghoul at the best of times, but when she's encouraging refugees to go to Rwanda and 'build their futures there'.
I think we'd all rather that Priti Patel went and built her future there instead, as she would have to have done if these rules had applied when her parents arrived here
Whilst I agree that this system is never going to work what is the solution to uncontrolled illegal economic migration into the U.K.? It is economic migration as refugees have lots the right to claim that status because they have passed through several safe countries in get here. I would take allot of convincing that any of the European countries they have traveled through are any more or less safe than the U.K.
I hope the tory’s get decimated come may 5th.
Just emailed my MP politely noting that as non-ideological voter, Boris Johnson and his Cabinet are certainly not swaying me to vote Conservative.
what is the solution to uncontrolled illegal economic migration into the U.K.?
This particular measure is to do with asylum seekers, not immigrants. So the answer is to have legal means of entry. The idea that a country should control immigration isn't a controversial one. what it probably shouldn't do is make it difficult for legitimate asylum seekers to come to this country safely.
The fact that most people who currently come here "illegally" as defined by Ms Patel, are in fact granted asylum on appeal in overwhelming numbers of cases, seems not to make a difference to these twerps
The reason we have uncontrolled illegal economic immigration into the Uk is because we tolerate Illegal economic migrants in the workforce.
You can't complain about it then expect a curry/haircut for £10.
I thought the UK had hit rockbottom a couple of years ago. Unfortunately we seem to be tunnelling like ####.
There is a legal means of entry for asylum seekers. Im sure its not even close to perfect. These are not those people though. These are people who have chosen to illegally cross Europe to seek entry into the UK
These are not those people though. These are people who have chosen to illegally cross Europe to seek entry into the UK
Which part of....
The fact that most people who currently come here “illegally” as defined by Ms Patel, are in fact granted asylum on appeal in overwhelming numbers of cases
...are you not following?
These measures proposed are for asylum seekers, not economic migrants
The people that we have obligations to under international law.
Define successful
Successful in putting asylum seekers in remote detention centres very far away from Australia.
Some people on this thread appear to be certain that Priti Patel's plans will never be implemented.
There is no reason to assume this especially as one of the Australian government minister behind Australia's scheme has been helping Patel with her plans.
It is economic migration as refugees have lots the right to claim that status because they have passed through several safe countries in get here.
there is no legal weight to what youve just said
80% of assylum claims are upheld!
Have you seen the actual figures involved?
The proposed new facility in Rwanda will house 100 asylum seekers, so even if it does go ahead (which I seriously doubt) it'll be neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things
This isn't even a policy. This is just whatever the opposite of virtue signalling is.
They're just flagging up to their core vote of racists that they're still on their side. Its just more culture war bollocks ahead of the local elections, and a dead cat to distract from Johnsons upcoming fines for attending more parties
These are people who have chosen to illegally cross Europe to seek entry into the UK
Under international laws that we've signed up to, the means of entry for asylum seekers shouldn't be a reason to not admit them. The whole narrative around "illegal means of entry" that the Tories are using is there to obfuscate. We make it especially hard to safely and legally get to the UK from places like Syria and Afghanistan, so those people invariably end up trying "illegal" routes. I mean, you can fly from neighbouring countries to Syria to the UK, there are scheduled airlines. There's a non-stop flight from Beirut to LHR for £300 or so. Why do you think people are forced to pay many thousands to smugglers and a chance in a blow up boat if the alternative is a comfy airline with food provided for 5 hours?
but why is it always little old England?
It isn't. The Daily Mail might be busy inflating the egos of their readers suggesting that everyone fleeing persecution and war is heading to the UK, but they aren't. Not even close.
If we take refugees more generally...
Turkey 3.7 million
Colombia 1.7 million
Uganda 1.5 million
****stan 1.4 million
Germany 1.2 million
...
UK...? about 0.1 million
That's about a quarter of a percent of all refugees that are hosted by the UK. Negligible.
----
Everyone knows which voters this dumb arse, expensive, unnecessary, inhumane policy is aimed at. Those who think we're being "flooded" by people who see the UK as a "Gold Mine"... be careful not to find yourself joining them... have a good look at the reality of how we handle refugees, asylum speakers, and immigrants... and especially whether we play our part in the world as regarding helping those fleeing war, conflict and persecution. The idea that we already "do all we can", or "more than our fair share" is a very sticky but entirely bogus idea.
----
BBC playing a clip from a Home Office minister saying (on LBC), 9 days ago, that he hadn't heard of this policy... it is new... and it is all about red meat policies aimed at saving big dog. Will it come to pass... my bet is some people will be handled this way, so that the government can brag about it to the voters motivated by such things (we can try had not say it's the new voters that Brexit delivered into the arms of the Tories... but, well, it is them, isn't it) come the next general election ... but not big numbers, and at huge cost (to lives and to the government)... and will be wound down after a year or two.