[Closed] Running faster how to?

You say you do fartleks; what pace and for how long?

Try 6-8 reps of 800m at sub 6 min/miles once a week. I've found this to work the best for me, oh and plenty of slow stuff.

Do your speed work on long runs as well; you'll die but a mile or so at 9'ish min/miles and you'll be alright. It's probably good to change whereabouts in the long run that you choose to throw in your speed work.

I know nothing by the way; so this could all be bollocks.

Oh yeah. Join a running club....definately the best way to see how fast you could be and a good opportunity to have your legs torn off.

hill reps and burpees?

perhaps join BMF

http://www.britmilfit.com/?src=adwords&gclid=CMHRps-U7q8CFcohfAod31wt0A

Kev

I can second Keva BMF for getting and staying fit, some parks have a running club.

Oh, just noticed that your already very quick with a 7.30 15 mile pace.....running club is definately what you need. Not advice from middle age IT monkeys.

slow down the long runs speed up the fast short ones.

emsz - It's got to be about doing structured intervals, possibly at a track? Like Seanoc says, or possibly faster speeds but shorter distances.

Also on a long run finish the last half a mile at a pace faster than you want your marathon time to be... tell those legs to 'shut up'.

You can do it. You just have to believe you can.

I'm told intervals are the answer, as you're already pretty fit I'd join a club or look online for schedules.

FWIW I died on my 20m run but finished my marathon ok, albeit not as fast as I wanted, but I'd overtrained.

Emsz, try John L Parker's approach which is similar to comments above. Alternate you runs between fast, shiort stuff at 85% working HR (karvonen) and long slow stuff at 70%. The endurance will come more easily than the ability to keep going at 85% since his will get harder and harder as you get fitter.

As others have said, run your long runs slower and your shorter runs faster. Your body wil do the rest. Stay out of zone 3!!!!!

85% working HR (karvonen) and long slow stuff at 70%

What do you mean by 'working heart rate'? Max HR?

So more sprint training? even for long distance as well?

how does that work?

So long runs at what speed? 8.5 mins/mile, that sort of speed? Endurance isn't the problem, it's keeping the pace up, anyone can run slowly LOL

just do more running with people faster than you; in a running club, or at races.

You'll never get faster by not running fast.

it's keeping the pace up

So, more intervals then.

Also second the thing of joining a running club and going out with the speedsters.

It's all in the training and with all training, you build it up bit by bit. Essentially you need to runat the pace you want to achieve over a short distance and keep increasing the distance until you're where you want to be.

Simple? Well yes it is , but there is a lot of hard work and pain involved unfortunately!

No beer, sorry I have been out. WHR uses your rating HR in the calculation rather than just a simple % of max. It's other name is often the karvonen method. I find it a better method.

Emsz, you can use HR zones or pacing. Well used RoT for long run training is in the region of 1m per mile slower than target race. I used this but built in race pace for the last few miles in training in addition to basic HR benchmarks

We (me and her) ran approx 1 mile on sat night sun morning after the bus dropped us off miles from home, I'd had circa "several pints" of Stella! Running 15 miles would have been interesting from that point onwards! How'd you get past 3 would be my question!!!!

I may have found something that can help, meet Princess....
[img] [/img]

Disclaimer: Other safer methods of learning to run fast may be available elswhere.

Rock ape, that's an interesting version. Not one that I or my mates have followed mainly due to the fact that we never feel the need to run race pace fully in training. Did you build right up to full distance at race pace?

I do fartleks and speed work, but I can't be doing that on huge runs

No, you do your intervals in short sessions, and your long sessions are still steady. Less is more.

So more sprint training? even for long distance as well?

how does that work?

Think of it like this. If you can do a mile in say 6m then 7.30 for 15 miles is I dunno.. 60% of top speed. If you train for speed and can do a milein 5m then 7.30 might end up being say 50% of top speed, and you would therefore be able to do it for longer.

Your short sessions should be short really really really gut-pukingly hard, then stop. Don't be tempted to be like Yeti and do too much 🙂 It's anathema to the person who loves long rambling runs for fun, but that's training for you. Treat it like a project.

My best half marathon was off 'hard runs hard, easy runs easy'. I don't respond to a structured plan but do think variety is key. Don't think you should worry about pace on your longer runs (90' plus?). Very few of these should be time trials. You've done 20 already, that last 6 is where a lot of people get into bother. But if you get 5 or 6, 18-20m+ runs in, the marathon's in the bag.

I'me a plodder rather than having decent top speed, but hill reps are a lot of my diet (for fell racing). Another session that works for me is a club run where I chat with different people and might end up dropping back and then have to work really hard to get back to my group. Sort of a chatty fartlek.

Variety. Next event is 33 miles, last week I was doing track 200s...

To add balance... don't fall into the trap of being like Molly and do too little, or nothing at all.

If you enjoy it, do it.

Its not necessary to slow down your long runs if you are comfortable at 7:30 miling. Good runners dont run "slow" as such. You need to run within certain thresholds.
If you are doing 15's regularly at this pace then its probably realistic that you could set interval targets at around 5:30 to 5:45 pace for your mile reps.
Try running 4 x 1 mile with a 2 minute jog between then then add another or even 2 after a few weeks.
Run 6 - 8 x 800m at around 5:15 to 5:30 paces with 90 seconds recovery.
These are only estimates you need to join a club as others have said and determine more acurately what your target interval pace should be and you should also introduce intervals at faster than your target 10km pace as well as doing threshold based training.
You should run at several speeds some faster and some slower than your goal race pace but you do need to introduce some faster paced running to improve your overall speed.

What are you aiming for?

Renato Canova trains lots of the Kenyan marathon big boys. He says that the best way to approach a race is to build it up from the ground.

You shouldn't be going out at a pace and hoping to hang on - the most important runs during the week are those which simulate your race, and the point of all the other training you do is to get you fit enough to run the simulations.

If you want to run a marathon at 7:10min/ mile, run weekly or fortnightly long runs including big chunks at that pace. All the other runs should be faster for shorter periods or recovering slower.

I'm running Leeds Half next weekend. On Sat I did 3miles@7:30m/m, 4miles@6:10m/m (target race pace), 1mile@7:30, 2miles@5:50, 2mile@7:30. I'm not as fit as I wanted to be after 3 weeks of being ill so it stung a bit at the end, but it was fun.

More here: http://tinyurl.com/4x6obmj

don't fall into the trap of being like Molly and do too little, or nothing at all.

Hey, we're all different.

My goal now is to kick Yeti's arse, due to all the lip he gives me on here.

Entered the Ben Nevis tri yet Yeti?

When's the Ben Nevis tri? What distance?

http://www.nofussevents.co.uk/event/The-Big-Ben-Nevis-Triathlon/2771/

It needs to be done DD.

I'm running Leeds Half next weekend. On Sat I did 3miles@7:30m/m, 4miles@6:10m/m (target race pace), 1mile@7:30, 2miles@5:50, 2mile@7:30. I'm not as fit as I wanted to be after 3 weeks of being ill so it stung a bit at the end, but it was fun.

Thats an interesting session. I agree with your point that you have to mimick the pace that you want to perform at. Training has to be specific. If you expect to run 5 miles in 25 minutes you wont achieve it if your fastest training is at 5:30 pace.

Yeah, just checked...it's the swim. The swim. The swim. I swim so badly mrs deadly has given up trying to teach me. It's because she pulls a muscle laughing so much.

Would you girls be doing the full or half? I'd seriously consider it if I knew others going up for it. 🙂

Also Canova posted a lot on the US site "letsrun" I recall he went into great detail over a long period of time sharing training information.

If you expect to run 5 miles in 25 minutes you wont achieve it if your fastest training is at 5:30 pace.

I'd do well to run one in five. In fact, bollocks, I wouldn't do it st all. Yeti reckons he can do it.

Please note that the generous cut off time of 45 mins to complete first lap will be strictly
adhered to. Anyone outwith this time will be moved on to the bike section.

Does that mean I can just paddle around or play in the rock-pools for 45 mins then get on my bike?
Sounds like my sort of triathlon then.

Would you girls be doing the full or half?

I'm definitely going and definitely doing the full. I think iDave might be too.

DD you need to work on your swimming. It can be done. Commit!

Sounds like my sort of triathlon then.

🙂

I saw that and wondered too. I guess they're saying they'll allow you to complete the event to the best of your abilities but you won't get a placing?

In the T&C's they said something about anybody wearing those shoes of yours not being allowed to cross the border Ian. 😀

Commit!

OK, I'll do it.

I'm not getting into any of you lot's competitive shit though. 😐

surfer - Member
Also Canova posted a lot on the US site "letsrun" I recall he went into great detail over a long period of time sharing training information.

I think the doc in my link was written by someone on letsrun as a summary of his posts. Could be wrong though.

If they got rid of swimming I might be interested. But a mile of extended drowning, mixed with some fish shit and being kicked in the head doesn't do it for me.
They should just acknowledge that swimming is fundamentally rubbish and change it to canoeing or pedalos or something.

If they got rid of swimming I might be interested.

Oh come on!

I'm gonna give it a lash and I swear I'm absolutely shit at swimming. I will however be awesome at the biking and running bits.

I'm definitely going and definitely doing the full.

Commit!

Sounds like you've entered then Molly? I was thinking more about a half IM in the New Forest tbh.

BTW Do you really think I give you a lot of shit?

Sounds like you've entered then Molly?

Please girls, not another "have you entered" stand-off. 😐

Sorry Darcy. I can definitely say that the Nevis tri doesn't really interest me this year. If I have to do it, I will... but I don't have the passion for it that Molly does.

Also, I don't think there is any competition, Molly obviously feels like he needs to proove himself. I'm glad I'm providing some motivation for him.

right, my goal is a 3'30" marathon (haven't decided which one, but I've just entered the oxford half), ideally a bit quicker. I'm in a club, although it's more a social thing rather than an athletics club. So, I'm aiming for 8 min miles. I did a 1'56" in a 15 mile race the other month, so I was hoping to hang onto that pace for the 20 miles I did this weekend, but my last 5 miles were just awful. 😥

I do lots of speed work during the week anyway, so How about if I carry on doing that, plus just hanging onto 7.5 mins/mile on my longer runs for as long as I can, then 8mins/mile for the marathon should be about right.

Does that sound ok?

Each to their own etc, but the only run training I've every done is 8x2minutes flat out, with 1 minute rests, and flat out runs of between 10k and 10 miles, none of this slow,steady stuff
Worked ok for me.
Sounds simple but I think to run fast you have to run fast.

If I have to do it

❓

Darcy - it's one of the grimmest events on the calendar... a test of suffering rather than fitness.

a test of suffering

I thought that was any tri, no? Although I take your point. Are there any other events that you think might be worth entering then?

richmars, trust me, that's about the fastest I can go over that sort of distance 😆

You have two options with tri IMO.

1) iDave stupidity.
2) Work up more gradually.

I'm going for option 2.

iDave mumbled something about the half IM in the New Forest Aug/Sept time. Lake swim and relatively flat terrain?

If you don't fancy starting with a sprint (ideally with an open water swim) I'll search out some Olympic distance ones... July time?

July time

Latter half, yes.

richmars, trust me, that's about the fastest I can go over that sort of distance

I'm not really a runner but would hill training help?

emsz - Member
I do lots of speed work during the week anyway, so How about if I carry on doing that, plus just hanging onto 7.5 mins/mile on my longer runs for as long as I can, then 8mins/mile for the marathon should be about right.

Does that sound ok?

I'm not an expert but I'd say that you need to remember the purpose of each session - running your longer runs faster than race pace with slower bits thrown in is going to break you!

Your intervals look after your speed, intensity and power. Your long runs are about building endurance.

If you want to simulate a race, go off slower than race pace and build to race pace for a chunk of the run (or >1 shorter periods at race pace).

If you want to go a bit faster than race pace, wait til the end of your run. This simulates having tired legs without causing you to need a few days' recovery after your training run - remember that you've got the next set of intervals to do in a couple of days and you need to be fresh to do them properly!

I'd suggest starting at 8:30, then 8:15, then 8, then maybe a bit at 7:45, then slow to warm down.

remember that you've got the next set of intervals to do in a couple of days and you need to be fresh to do them properly!

Important point. Your interval sessions and longer runs are the key building components, dont run excessivly hard on your long runs so that you are too tired to maintain the intensity in you interval sessions. otherwise you will not see the improvement.
Having said that dont run your longer runs slow either. They need to be taxing to provide benefit. Avoid long social runs unless they are at "your" target pace.

OK, so run faster at the end of long runs instead of at the beginning, and carry on with intervals and stuff mid week.

Cool

Emsz - your intervals have to be really fast. Esp the sprint ones. There's running fast, and there's sprinting absolutely flat out. As above you have to be somewhat fresh to do them otherwise you won't be able to go flat out and you'll be wasting your time I think.

I would be tempted to do the long runs at a slow pace (maybe a pace at which you can hold a conversation), and if they are not hard enough just make them longer NOT faster. That was the advice I had for base training on the bike, anyway.

OK, I'll do it.

Great!

And Yeti - I am only having a laugh with the competitive stuff - the trash talking amuses me. I'll stop if you don't like it, I would not want to offend.

your intervals have to be really fast.

what does "really fast" mean? I suggested some estimates above but i would not class that as really fast and the OP should be able to handle them I suspect given what he has said. They need to be taxing but you should aim to complete them at the pace planned and you need to experiment.
Aim to complete them all at the same pace, not fast slow etc and you should be close to exhaustion at the end of the last one.
You could also take a few minutes break then 10 x 100m strides. This helps to improve form when you are tired in races i have found.

As fast as possible, I reckon. So if it's a minute, go all out for a minute.

I think I did intervals too slowly for many years.

A short run with 30-30s in the middle. Warm up for ten minutes then accelerate for 30 seconds before returning to a slow jog for thirty seconds. Each time you accelerate go a little faster until you're struggling and slowing down by the end of the fast 30 seconds. Do a few more reps at that speed then jog comfortably for five minutes to warm down.