Running ... does it get easier or will I just fall apart

I started distance running in 2016. I can no longer run, osteoarthritis in my left knee. Likely down to that. But, plenty of people run with arthritis. I also slipped a disc in 2018 and then in 2019. So, I fell apart. I was getting pretty quick, sub 20 5k, 40m 10k, 3:23 marathon. Then my body fell apart. I weigh about 80kg. I do miss it at times, mostly the trial running.

As for tips, strength and conditioning. Get your core strong, and stay flexible.

As Stcolin says, proper strength and conditioning is key. I got pretty quick when training for Ironman, but havent run for 2 years due to keep picking niggles up.

Is off road running an option? Slighly easier on the joints.

Is off road running an option?

+1

I've been running trails and fells since 1995. Which is kinda terrifying.

Running … does it get easier

No, you just get faster.

I think my best 5/10k times are 24m and 49m – not quick but improving.

I wish after 2 years I was that quick!

No, you just get faster.

I beg to differ.

Five years in and I'm sure I'm getting slower.

Running broke me every time i tried to get into it. Cardio fitness could do way more than my body and joints could and i wasn't able to progress beyond a certain point which killed off my interest in it ultimately. I only enjoy something like that when i can continually improve which i couldnt.

No, in my experience it stays shit.

However, you can make it more bearable by making sure you aren't hitting the ground with your heel out in front of your body.  That's called heel striking and really saps your energy.

God invented the wheel. Running is for losers !

In addition to the lifting, take a look at some of the running specific routines on instagram to keep your knees and ankles in good shape:

https://www.instagram.com/running_fitness_dude

https://www.instagram.com/galephysio

It does get easier, but it's never easy as you just go faster.  Trying to push yourself to go faster usually ends up exacerbating small niggles into much bigger problems.  If you want to continue, I'd strongly suggest joining a running club.  They will be able to help with both technique and supporting activities to make sure you can go faster without hurting yourself more.

Running is great for fitness and bad for the body IME.

Like you OP I see running as a supplementary fitness thing rather than a sport I'm particularly into, it doesn't need much time or kit and half an hour/5k running on the lanes near to home feels as effective as an hour and a half on a bike (to me at least) where a 30min bike ride would feel almost pointless (to me).

What I'm not into is racing, endurance running or joining a club/making it 'social' it's a different thing to do when you're time crunched but Zwift isn't appealing either... 5k as mixed training is all I'm bothering with, it's no great chore.

Is it running that's the problem or is it feeling obligated to participate with the club, making it more of a faff that it needs to be?

Guy at work is proper fast, sub 15min 5km, and basically says if your trying get used to hurting. Niggles and tweaks are part of it.

Do you hurt/get a niggle from a 30min ride? No. Try a high intensity, high gear sprint session for 30mins. That'll leave you with a tweak.

The niggles are probably down to how hard you are working.

Niggles are part and parcel of running, though it's really important to differentiate between a bit of discomfort every now and then and a proper injury.

Running does put a fair bit of impact through the body, and the idea of trail running is a good one, albeit dark nights don't make it easy at this time of year. Long term, rail running also gives you better joint stability as you're feet don't hit the same spot in the same arc of movement all the time, though again, gaining that stability can take time.

You said you're running on the track, which is good to help with impact but bad as you inevitably work hard and go fast so put more through your muscles.

All of this can be helped with some strength work

So yeah, in conclusion, running does hurt, but it shouldn't be all the time and it is manageable.

Wow, thank you all for responding.

To help answer some questions ...

As for tips, strength and conditioning. Get your core strong, and stay flexible.

Thats back on the cards - flexibility wise I'm pretty good but could always be better.

I wish after 2 years I was that quick!

<Blushes>

However, you can make it more bearable by making sure you aren’t hitting the ground with your heel out in front of your body. That’s called heel striking and really saps your energy.

I am a self confessed galumpher. I would say I am a mix of heel and mid foot striker. I have tried adjusting and when I sprint I run on my forefoot but I cannot run a middleish pace on my forefoot. I have a longish stride and perhaps do over stride(?) but no idea how to address that 🙁

God invented the wheel. Running is for losers !

🙂

I’d strongly suggest joining a running club

I have/I am!

or is it feeling obligated to participate with the club, making it more of a faff that it needs to be?

It is the running. The club are very good but just geared up to better support the "competitive" runners.

The niggles are probably down to how hard you are working.

I like your thinking here! I do try to use a faster runner as a pacer to keep me from bimbling - perhaps I should choose a less fast pacer.

Since I turned 45 (nearly 10 years ago) pretty much everything niggles and hurts. Never been able to properly complete C25K, latest effort scuppered by damage to my left knee, likely due to weight and improper technique/pacing.

Physio has said that when the knee has recovered she will do some technique analysis, I would have thought that if you are part of a running club they would have coaches to advise on that? There does seem to be a pattern of many runners accepting and constantly working around niggles and injuries, being an ex rugby player probably the same. Ilkeston Cycle Club got a huge boost in membership when it was created by a lot of members of Ilkeston Running Club joining to try and delay knee and hip replacements

Yes, it does get easier, and you do get faster too... so long as you are always working on your running form. For me that meant gym once per week with plenty of deadlifts, good mornings, lunges and calf raises + hip flexor and quad stretching (that enabled me to land mid/forefoot without being crippled for 4 days afterwards). Then, when running, always being mindful to push with the posterior chain, rather than pull with the quads, whilst also keeping the cadence high and being sure not to overstride (foot landing under knee, and no heel striking). Plus plenty of high cadence drills, strides and slight downhill intervals to promote nice fast turnover. And don't discount the importance of protein consumption for recovery - you need to think like a bodybuilder when it comes to eating.

Would be interesting to know what your current niggles are as that might give some clues as to what to target. Also, what cadence are you regularly running at?

However, you can make it more bearable by making sure you aren’t hitting the ground with your heel out in front of your body. That’s called heel striking and really saps your energy.

Some people find it saps your energy or hurts, for some people its their natural running gait/style and it's fine. Everyone's different

I love running (just in from a hilly 8k or so to test new fell shoes) but - competitively - it comes second to bike racing for me most of the time.

When I'm proper run fit I can do a 40 min 10k but I can't do that if I'm trying to focus on bike racing too, it's one or the other.

If I'm not focusing on  running, then I'm generally running fairly easy and I back right off at the first sign of any niggles. If something feels weird then I'll leave it for two weeks and get back in super-slow. Years ago I ignored a minor achilles strain which got really painful and ended up causing months of disruption. Now I'm super careful.

I'd go along with onehundredthidiot - I don't know any fast runners who manage to stay niggle-free.

I think my best 5/10k times are 24m and 49m – not quick but improving.

At my fastest I wasn't that fast and I'm built like a racing snake. My PB for 10k is an hour flat.

I would ask, why are you running? Do you enjoy it, do you want to be competitive, are you trying to prove a point (which is why I started), are you trying to deny getting older (which is why I stopped), ... what do you want out of this? Pushing yourself too hard is a fast track to injury where you then won't be running at all.

A great runner once said, you're either about to get an injury, you're currently injured, or just got over an injury.

Don't focus on running on front/mid foot especially if you think you are overstriding as that will incur injury. Focus on landing foot under knee as mentioned and technique on whole leg motion then mid/front becomes possible and more natural.

I converted a while ago as it also have bad supination of the feet and heel striking increased ankle sprains but it took a while and only really cracked it when I focused more on the rest of the motion and let the feet sort themselves out.

If it gets easier you are not trying hard enough

You never see a happy runner. The wheel is the way forward.

Happy comes after the running is finished...

I used to run a lot, middle distance, half marathons, training for marathons/ultras. Got injured almost every time my training pushed me over half-marathon to marathon/ultra distance. Lifting weights, cycling and swimming helped (Tris were fun), but put me above 19 miles in a program and I would get lame for a couple of days with what felt like stress fractures on my feet. I had to be honest with myself about my ability to put myself through longer distances and still be functional.

I still enjoy running, ut it's snowy and icy here and not fun any more. I'll stay on the turbo for the next few months.

@jamz - last track session was an average of 153 SPM with an average stride length of 1.2m (according to Garmin).

I've currently got an irritation of my iliotibial band on my right leg - seemingly also aggravated by winter single speeding ... grr.

I would ask, why are you running? Do you enjoy it, do you want to be competitive, are you trying to prove a point (which is why I started), are you trying to deny getting older (which is why I stopped), … what do you want out of this? Pushing yourself too hard is a fast track to injury where you then won’t be running at all.

I mentioned that in my first post - it is mainly to cater for my cardio workouts so I can enjoy cycling a bit more.

@pieface - there are a couple of those at our track sessions 🙂

I don't really enjoy the act itself but I like what it gets me. It's the same with work 🙂 🙂

Got into running this year, in 6-7 months have been 'injured' enough that I cant run for around 7 weeks of that time....

Being just over 40 and not having ever ran really since school I am finding if I so much as over-do it by a tiny amount my legs will let me know by feeling like total crap, sometimes bad enough that even walking isn't pleasant for a week or so.

For the first time I am visiting a physio, have sports massage and am becoming as obsessed with running shoes as I am with bikes... its got me hooked.

The next 6 months will decide if its something I can do going forward or pack it in though, would love to build up to a marathon in 2025 if my body doesn't give up.

I mentioned that in my first post – it is mainly to cater for my cardio workouts so I can enjoy cycling a bit more.

So why do you care about pace times?

There are a few "old" club runners in my running club and they mostly have some injury or other going on. I'm considered lucky as I didn't really get into running until later in life so I've not worn out all my joints by my 60s.

Conditioning by stretching and doing various bodyweight exercises seems to help. I follow along to many of the videos on the Run Better with Ash YouTube channel but there are many others.

@crankrider - I wished the 40 something old me could have told the 30 or even 20 year old how much simpler running would be starting younger. The 20 or 30 year old me wouldn't have listened but at least it would have been a case of "told you so" now 🙂

@cougar2 - Continuous improvement/betterment innit ...

@letmetalktomark - I don't think a lot of people realise just how brutal running is, I wish I had started younger as I might have got the early 'niggles' out of the way then, or maybe not.

There are a few “old” club runners in my running club and they mostly have some injury or other going on. I’m considered lucky as I didn’t really get into running until later in life so I’ve not worn out all my joints by my 60s.

That's not necessarily what they think it is. Its, from what I've been told, often more to do with muscle loss through ageing. This leads to muscular imbalances and weaknesses, that in turn cause injuries.

Quite a few Google hits to take a look at.

What lunge said about off road running and joint stability. It takes time, a few years, but it's really helped me get from a perma-knackered ankle to 5-a-side fit.

Also, some planks, press-ups, squats, lunges and hip flexor exercises help keep the niggles minimal.

And variation - on a 3 run week one will be quicker, one will be a bit longer, one will be recovery ( no target pace or distance, just feel and enjoyment/headspace).

I’m a few weeks away from my 60th birthday and been running since my teens, did my first marathon at 18 and fortunately haven’t had any major injuries, but have suffered from periods of over-use injuries. My days of 17 minutes 5K and 35 minute 10k are probably behind me. I did do a 50k a few years ago in 4:30 just for fun - took a train to Dorking and ran home along the North Downs Way.
I agree about the comments about over-striding and heel-striking - yes, you can run fast but unless you’re very light, it can cause problems after a while. Likewise minimalist shoes, OK for gym bunnies on treadmills but less good for the real-world. These days almost all my running is off-road, simply because there are few roads here and I just love running with my dog. For me, I still run because I enjoy it, it’s good for helping keep the weight down and for my core fitness - I also kayak and cycle. Important to know your body well enough to tell the difference between a niggle you can push through and something that could turn into an injury and taking it easy. I also tend to overdress, keeping the muscles warm particularly when starting off in winter and slowly building up at the start. Many of my runs start off uphill which really helps. For someone relatively new to running, also be aware of it taking time your ligaments and tendons to develop and the difference between muscle pain and something more serious requiring rest and recovery.

last track session was an average of 153 SPM with an average stride length of 1.2m (according to Garmin).

153 at a track session (or anywhere else) is way too low! It's about where I was when I started and before I had given any consideration to form. I'll bet that you're doing all the things I mentioned in my first post (running with quads + overstriding). If you can break the habit I guarantee you will go faster for less effort (I did).

I would start by going out for a plain old steady run, but try to increase the cadence a little and really focus on pushing off behind you with the trailing foot. Then allow the trailing leg to come forward naturally - a return to the mean if you like - under no circumstances should you be pulling that leg forward and landing it out in front - it should just touch down gently underneath your body. Also, make sure that you're standing tall and leading with the hips, don't allow yourself to start folding forwards. It will feel weird at first because your strides will be shorter and faster (you may well find that your HR is up) and you will feel like you're missing out, but your body will get used to it, and then you will go faster.

As a fit cyclist / never runner I really struggled when I started. I could run fast-ish but every run would cause a new niggle and it’d be months before I was ready to go again.

Recently got a Garmin watch and I’m trying some of its suggested workouts. It recommends running far slower than I can and I was surprised at how few injuries I feel. The watch will beep if my pace creeps above a threshold so it’s easy to stick to the prescribed pace (6min/km in my case). Other times the watch suggests intervals, and though they’re horrible from a cardio perspective, they don’t hurt my joints. Running at threshold seems to really screw up my joints for some reason. Off road also seems far kinder on joints.

So basically, try running slower. I don’t know if you need to spend £300 on a watch to tell you that, mind.

I would start by going out for a plain old steady run, but try to increase the cadence a little and really focus on pushing off behind you with the trailing foot. Then allow the trailing leg to come forward naturally – a return to the mean if you like – under no circumstances should you be pulling that leg forward and landing it out in front – it should just touch down gently underneath your body. Also, make sure that you’re standing tall and leading with the hips, don’t allow yourself to start folding forwards. It will feel weird at first because your strides will be shorter and faster (you may well find that your HR is up) and you will feel like you’re missing out, but your body will get used to it, and then you will go faster.

I'm going to try this, have been trying to add in one or two runs a week to keep fitness up after a local 10km trail run. It's always knees tgat get me and I'm virtually certain it's ITB brought on by overworked TFL due to inactive glute medius. I always feel better when I run 'springier' by toe-in off more which I believe utilises glute med more.

Side stepping on tip-toes is s great warm-up exercise I find to get the right muscles working.

I mentioned that in my first post – it is mainly to cater for my cardio workouts so I can enjoy cycling a bit more.

So why do you care about pace times?

This is a very important point. If you are just running to keep fit and compliment your cycling fitness (exactly why I started running in my teens, some 30 years ago), you don't really need to worry about being 'competitive' with it, especially if you are now getting injured.

I would recommend looking up the Maffetone (running) Method. It all sounds a bit bro' science at first glance, but in essence it involves running with an HR meter and staying in Zone 3 at all times. This will feel absolutely crushingly slow at first, but as your body adapts to low-intensity workouts, you will become faster in a low HR zone. One of the problems with running, particularly as we age, is that our tendons begin to turn to old boot leather, while our muscles and cardio system are still ready to rumble. This imbalance is what underlies a lot of injuries. The Maffetone Method allows the tendons to catch up and improves your running economy at the same time.

I chose to switch to this safer Zone 3 HR method after getting cardioverted following exercise-indicuced paroxysmal atrial fibrulation a couple of years back, probably as a result of 30 years running and cycling to the max at all times. I used to get ongoing achilles and I-T band problems from running all the time. Now, I run injury free all the time. Just a lot slower.

Obviously, there are other important things, like ensuring your running gait is correct, running shoes are correct, etc. but the Maffetone Method can work to provide a strong injury-free foundation to your runinng long term.

About the same size as the OP and I originally started running for fun because I kept knackering my knees  (MCLs) playing competitive football and rugby.

It may have been a slightly easier transition as an ex-back row rather than 2nd row so probably more used to running 😉

Anyway I quickly discovered that if I ran flat even surfaces I would hurt. But if I run hills, and preferably off-road then the hurt would really only be my muscles and lungs, but i'm so distracted by all the other things going on i'm ok.

Without being especially quick I got to the point where i was entering marathon length obstacle races and was quite happy to run 25km on the dirt with stops every km for push-ups/lunges/burpees.

Then i rediscovered MTB and only really run when the trails are too bad for riding.

Recently tried a bit of running from the front door on a fairly flat loop and have found it really hard and after a few efforts got a lower calf strain... your thread has reminded me that's the sort of thing that always happens if I run on the road. I better get back to the trails instead.

That’s not necessarily what they think it is. Its, from what I’ve been told, often more to do with muscle loss through ageing. This leads to muscular imbalances and weaknesses, that in turn cause injuries.

Quite a few Google hits to take a look at.

One of them is a qualified sport physio. I could try the but I read this on Google approach but I suspect she'd skelp ma lugs. 🙂

Got into running this year, in 6-7 months have been ‘injured’ enough that I cant run for around 7 weeks of that time….

Being just over 40 and not having ever ran really since school I am finding if I so much as over-do it by a tiny amount my legs will let me know by feeling like total crap, sometimes bad enough that even walking isn’t pleasant for a week or so.

For the first time I am visiting a physio, have sports massage and am becoming as obsessed with running shoes as I am with bikes… its got me hooked.

The next 6 months will decide if its something I can do going forward or pack it in though, would love to build up to a marathon in 2025 if my body doesn’t give up.

did c25k at about 45 for the first time having steered clear of running even in school, managed to damage an ankle on a stupid low speed roll over and clip out on the bike at about week 6. went back to it after about two months and went in at about week 5 on c25k IIRC. went fine. then just ran a bit longer and faster and got down to about 23 mins for 5k which i was well happy with during the first lockdown as my only target had been sub 25. left off it a bit, but now running much more, particularly during this poor weather, in as much as i get out more often but not really running longer distances - just trying to get out. i'm slower but more regular and i'm happy with that, at least at the moment. will probably make more effort to get a bit quicker and also do some longer runs, but main aim is just to get out at the mo.

injury is not a given IMV. listen to your body. i concede though that we're all different.

That post about Maffetone^ sort of defines running just for fun. Run in zone 3, get fitter over time, avoid injuries and ignore the competitive side (even against yourself). You'll definitely get fitter and mostly avoid all the downsides.

It gets easier.

can no longer run, osteoarthritis in my left knee. Likely down to that.

Just putting this here now - there is no link between running and osteoarthritis, and in fact it tends to strengthen the joint. People with arthritis in their knees are either ex-football players or skiers.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8478853/

Agree with that. I have spurs in my ankles and mcl injuries in my knees from other sports but running has only ever caused minor muscle injuries.

Went out this afternoon to try a short hilly trail run I used to do regularly (last did it 8 years ago) and see how it affected me. I was very slow by comparison to my old times but found it easier than a flat loop despite a much higher heart rate. And aside from the calf pain I've had recently there's none of the other muscle aches I get on the flat.

Thanks all, will read through the new replies now.

Couple of comments though - @reeksy - cheaky b8stard - the back row are really just glorified backs* 🙂 🙂 😉

Sadly the flat lands of East Anglia don't really lend themselves to hill/non flat running. That said the few bits of "trail running" I've done have been more enjoyable.

Over night I've been mulling the comments/questions on speed and drive etc. I have always been competitive with myself and so I guess that is my main driver. If I'm doing it (running, riding, lifting, DIY etc) I want to get better.

* Only joking 😉

I tried running only in zone 3, but there's just too much traffic in London these days.

Just putting this here now – there is no link between running and osteoarthritis, and in fact it tends to strengthen the joint. People with arthritis in their knees are either ex-football players or skiers.

Lots of myths about running leading to injuries. I started running at 17 (late starter) and am now 60 and other than Arthritis in my large toe joint (which can be surprisingly debilitating at times) I have no issues other than some aches and pains when I am training "hard". All disappear after a few days of not running. As above the opposite appears to be true and running can help avoid issues that are often due to sedentary lifestyles. Of course there will be some that have issues that are exacerbated by running but I think these are few and far between. I now race against people I ran against in the 70's and 80's and there are still a lot of them about and many running very well.

I have always been competitive with myself and so I guess that is my main driver. If I’m doing it (running, riding, lifting, DIY etc) I want to get better.

There are many versions of better. For me it means the ability to go further. I'd rather be able to 4 or 5 hours at a slow pace than a 20 minute 5km. I had a social club run from Kingussie to Dalwhinnie a couple of weeks back (25km or so) that was pretty much my ideal.

I occasionally rode with a local group which seemed to be around 50% injured fell runners. I think to an extent it goes with the territory, particularly relative to cycling, because it's a weight-bearing exercise with relatively high impact forces plus a tendency to seek out and punish any bio-mechanical weaknesses. Obviously individuals vary, but I think that's a reasonable general take. The heavier you are, the higher impacts tend to be as well.

I used to run a fair bit, mostly I guess as mountaineering 'training', and actually found that running more, to an extent, made me more resilient. As people have said, you can help yourself with... specific strength and mobility work, careful shoe choice, good running technique/form/whatever you want to call it etc. The other thing is to listen to your body and try not to increase load too fast.

A classic cyclist thing is to have good cardio-vascular fitness, but muscles that really aren't well adapted to weight-bearing work, so you end up going faster/harder/longer than your legs are capable of coping with, then regretting it afterwards. I suspect a lot of us have been there.

It may be that you're simply pushing too hard, too soon even if you think you're not. I'd maybe back off a bit and stop worrying about times. My take is that competitive running is pretty horrible, but running to simply enjoy the motion and being outdoors is ace and less likely to damage you and simply running consistently will progress your running more effectively than getting caught up in a boom/bust injury doom loop.

I'd agree with scotroutes. I've been running for a few years now. It's definitely getting easier. I use that to run more rather than faster (I'm definitely not fast). In the winter I try and run most days as I'm doing less of other stuff. I also do some longet runs or go for a run somewhere nice. Working away or on holiday I'll always try a get a run in. It's a great way to sight see. Did some beautiful runs along the beach on the west coast of Ireland last week

Over 50, run more days than not, and no injuries so happy with this strategy

I listened to @scotroutes and started following Run better with Ash on youtube, i am just starting my running journey and doing Couch to 5k and started week 5, althogh in my usual stubborn way, i have managed two 5k straight through as i got ahead of myself and wanted to see if i could do it.

I'm 97kg and an old prop forward, so spent years trying to avoid running after i left army after a dislocated knee that caused me nothing but problems, but have started as i have entered the London Landmarks half marathon in April to raise money for diabetes charities.

The youtube channel above has been great, do their 5-10min warm up, do my run, then back to anything between 10-30 mins warm down, a lot of what he does it a mixture of stretching and some strength and is a lot more dynamic than just yoga or stretching, been very conscious of not injuring myself.

I think like you @letmetotalktomark, i am in East Anglia, but also a singlespeeder, so convince myself this must have helped knees and tendons as i've done my best to punish them for years!

Wahoo SYSTM is very good for bodyweight strength and yoga work outs too

One of them is a qualified sport physio. I could try the I read this on Google approach but I suspect she’d skelp ma lugs.

Maybe we should get the physio and (different person) sports physio I know that both told me (not Google), and you're physio to fight it out. A Fife Physio vs CGR physio battle ?

*it might be worn out knees, what I've been told is it's not always that, and that people have a tendency to default to the assumption

I had similar issues to OP over 10/15 years. I always got small injuries, niggles that would then escalate into stuff that needed a physio to fix. I'd run for a few weeks, get a niggle, then be off it for months, then restart the cycle. Really frustrating. I tried changing shoes, custom orthotics, coaching technique, etc. with minimal results.

The thing that changed it for me -- massively changed it -- was simply to consistently run *a lot* slower. My reasoning was that I don't get injured when walking, so I shouldn't get injured when running slowly. I set myself the goal that every run would be a Z2 run. At the start, this felt abominably slow, embarrassingly slow. But now my Z2 pace is the same as my previous Z3/4 pace. I am running longer distances than before. I enjoy it. I have zero injuries or niggles. I feel great the day after a run, not sore or tight at all. I can see that my endurance and aerobic base has massively improved, which has helped performance on the bike. I can even play around a bit with running pace to turn on the gas from time to time (with caution). It's been a game-changer for me -- not sure why I never tried to implement it before.

Anyway, I now think the first priority of any recreational runner should be to run to be injury free, not to chase some mythical pace/time/distance. Injuries are not fun at all, they slow down your progression overall and wipe out fitness gains. Try to run to be injury free first; then, see what pace/distance you end up reaching. Do this rather than busting a gut and ****ing up your knees/back/hips/ankle in the process just so you can bag some impressive time.

Interesting thread and interesting post sockcookies. Especially this comment:

At the start, this felt abominably slow, embarrassingly slow. But now my Z2 pace is the same as my previous Z3/4 pace. I am running longer distances than before.