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Shit game, nice win. Hope everyone comes through ok.
Shit game, nice win. Hope everyone comes through ok.
MY goodness -AA actually speaks the truth!
Shit game, nice win. Hope everyone comes through ok.
MY goodness -AA actually speaks the truth!
I enjoyed the first 50 minutes, until the momentum changed. Disappointing that the France v Scotland game is not on tv.
Briefly, how do the rankings work for Wales to go top over New Zealand?
Disappointing that the France v Scotland game is not on tv.
I thought it was on premier sports?
Briefly, how do the rankings work for Wales to go top over New Zealand?
Not a clue TBH. I know that it's based on the run of results, but not how long a time period or how many games involved.
Wales won't ever "really" be number 1 until they beat the team they haven't since 45BC.
Still it's nice to have bounced back after the lukewarm display last week, even if it required a bit of luck and lots of angry faces.
This is Wales level, without Anscombe and to a lesser extent Loopy Liam we have to rely on dogging out close results. Losing Anscombe is a massive loss. I'm not too fussed though, the world cup is a bit of fun we have no realistic chance of winning anyway.
Positives for Wales are 1/2p, Shingler and Navidi coming through games and Wainright continuing to develop into a very top class 6.
England meanwhile are an odd one, they are certainly more dangerous with Ford at 10. The massive pack gambit seems a bit strange for the heat of Japan, if they cant bully opposition as they couldnt today, whats plan B? England's backrow must have been 3 stone a main heavier than Wales and their props are all massive.
Disappointing that the France v Scotland game is not on tv.
I thought it was on premier sports?
Sorry, I meant old school terrestrial 😂
Wales won’t ever “really” be number 1 until they beat the team they haven’t since 45BC.
Nah, Wales are ranked number 1. I say: either enjoy it for what it is, or let us enjoy it for a week or so : )
Also,
This is Wales level... the world cup is a bit of fun we have no realistic chance of winning anyway.
I pretty much agree with this, we cannot say for certain we’ll get out of the group stage. However, I’d say we have almost no realistic chance, or a fairly unrealistic chance.
Getting a bit carried away with myself, but if (big if perhaps) Wales have an 85% of getting out of the group, then a 1/3, 1/4, 1/5 chance in the next three games that would give us ~1 or 2% chance. Oh, that’s no realistic chance ; )
gauss1777
Member
Disappointing that the France v Scotland game is not on tv.I thought it was on premier sports?
Sorry, I meant old school terrestrial 😂
ON on freesports tomorrow morning which is somewhere down the far end of freeview IIRC
I will hopefully be watching it live on a dodgy feed
I didnt see the game but Garces is getting a lot of flack from both sides
Theres a huge outpouring about that welsh try being allowed, with the tap being taken during a head injury and players being subbed.
Comments on that from the neutrals - unsportman like behaviour or fair? Should Garces have called it back?
Thanks tj I would not have found that. I’m hoping France play really well and like South Africa and Australia show signs of being much stronger for the World Cup. But, I hope Scotland win in style.
Theres a huge outpouring about that welsh try being allowed, with the tap being taken during a head injury and players being subbed.
England player had been yellowed and was trudging off...seemed fine to me. TV mostly missed it but ref seemed happy to play on. English physios were on fussing about nothing trying to slow up the game as far as I could tell. Ref doesnt have to stop for every injury.
Comments on that from the neutrals – unsportman like behaviour or fair? Should Garces have called it back?
The ref is the sole judge of fact. The players should not have switched off and anyway it did not lead directly to the try - it was a few phases later. I thought it was while Watson was on his way off the park for his sin bin not an injury so physios should not have been on the pitch anyway
Naive from England. "clever" from Wales. England should have known that the Welsh are sneaky bastards
I see no HIA or injury here.
https://twitter.com/C4Sport/status/1162786295644483584?s=19
England should have known that the Welsh are sneaky bastards
😀
Of course you dont, youre a welsh supporter.
Naive from England. “clever” from Wales. England should have known that the Welsh are sneaky bastards
Seeing only the comments this is what i assumed - that England have to wise up to the fact that teams will take any opportunity to score against 12 players, even if it could be slightly cheating or that the ref is enept whatever the reason. The score was on the wing when we were two.backs short,
Yes its within the rules, and yes Garces is the judge of the awarding of the try, but when both sportsmanship of the team and the refs overall performance is in question you have to question the merit and value of a player of Norths quality scoring against half the backline that should have been.
Englands fault and loss, but its suggested not on a level playing field.
you have to question the merit and value of a player of Norths quality scoring against half the backline that should have been.
About 5 points or 7 with the kick.
😂
Sorry guys but from what I saw it was completely in the rules. The ref had not stopped the clock for an injury. Monye reckoned the play cannot restart until the yellow carded player is off the park but given he was not interfering with play>..............
Large steaming pile of mince being delivered in Nice!
Hastings is a plonker! Forwards look soft as, France look like the real France - playing some great stuff.
The score was on the wing when we were two.backs short,
Why were you two backs short?
Edit - I saw no one down injured before the play stopped. I assume England thought the watch was stopped when it wasn't
Point of order- laws, not rules.
Anyone watching the Scotland game? I missed the first try so dunno what happened
Sorry guys but from what I saw it was completely in the rules. The ref had not stopped the clock for an injury. Monye reckoned the play cannot restart until the yellow carded player is off the park but given he was not interfering with play>…………..
I’m with Tj on this, otherwise you’d be encouraging the penalised team slowing down the restart.
Anyone watching the Scotland game? I missed the first try so dunno what happened
Listening on the radio, so not sure. Need one of Scotland’s miraculous comebacks (again).
Nah, Wales are ranked number 1. I say: either enjoy it for what it is, or let us enjoy it for a week or so : )
I am enjoying it, I’m Welsh.
Not a lot of positives for Scotland from that. without key players we look poor. Defense was very poor.
Only highlights - Ritchie looks a test player and Graham did well on their big winger. Some individual good play from the outside backs, Hutchinson looked fine in his cameo
France - very good and looked sharp. Lovely offloading and countering game. Not seen France play like that for a long time.
I’ve just seen (hopefully I’m not wrong) that Japan now 9th play Scotland now 8th as the last pool game on the 13th of October- that is going to be some game!
Yup - its a rather scary one. Japan will be targetting that game as the one to get them thru and Japan have a long turnaround, Scotland a short one.
Scotland will have to be a lot better than tonight to get thru
France looked good, Scotland didn't. Japan will be licking their lips.
Fair comment CFH
I still both have nightmares and applaud Japan for scoring against Scotland in the last WC with the most beautiful rolling maul I have ever seen.
Japan will target scotland for sure.
Japan will target scotland for sure.
Yes, in Murrayfield Scotland would be clear favourites for me. But, last game, qualification for both teams on the line, home crowd, the weather,...
This World Cup is lining up to be amazing.
how do the rankings work for Wales to go top over New Zealand?
I assume the algorithm is based on calculating your ability relative to the other teams you play, so beating low ranked teams counts for less than beating high ranked teams. Australia are ranked #6, so NZ losing a game and winning a game puts them at a 50% chance of beating Australia, which is not really what you'd expect from the #1 ranked team, meaning that NZ should drop as a result. Also, SA are ranked #5, so NZ's performance against them would justify a lower ranking. Their last game was impressive, but the other games this year were very unconvincing. England and Wales are ranked #4 and #2, so beating a #4 ranked team counts for more than beating a #6 ranked team. Ireland is #3, so the Six Nations teams have had more opportunities to play high ranked teams than NZ has this year.
Krypton THM getting a ban didn’t lead to a situation vacant, don’t be that guys spiritual successor. Nothing wrong with a quick penalty, the physios weren’t dealing with a head injury and the carded player had been dealt with. The England support team were just slowing play down to allow England to reorganise, any comment on sportsmanship there? As to your other point, North is a 2 times Lion, why wouldn’t he score against a full strength England? Darcey Graham did it several times last year, and doesn’t look big enough to pay an adult bus fare 😀
For obvious reasons not watching the Scotland game so watched the NZ match....be afraid, be very afraid,they were scarily good.
watched the NZ match….be afraid, be very afraid,they were scarily good.
What's great about this year is that the top teams have all been up and down. NZ, SA, Aus, Wales, England, and Ireland could all win the WC if they play at their best, but one bad game (or injuries to key players) and they'll be packing their bags. France have a history of pulling surprises out of the hat too, the France vs Argentina pool game should be excellent, as well as Scotland vs Japan.
Nothing wrong with a quick penalty
So why weren't England allowed a quick penalty at around 78mins? Close to the line, good chance of scoring and levelling the game but got called back to retake it
So why weren’t England allowed a quick penalty at around 78mins?
Once the nine wasnt over the mark and another time the ref was talking to players in both instances a quick tap is not allowed. Ask yourself if Biggar had just kicked to touch would you have been bothered? It wasnt a "quick tap" he just kicked it the other way.
Sideshow Bob was trudging across the pitch. I think he should have gone off by the shortest route. If Biggar had kicked and it had hit him he would have been interfering with play. The physios and Waterboys are an annoying distraction. In my book medic comes on for injury. "Physio" and waterluggers when ref has stopped play and clock has stopped, as signalled by ref. It was starting at schoolboy level in my last season of reffing. I did ask coaches to stop it or if penalise them for interfering with play.
Bitter saes already?
Darcey Graham did it several times last year, and doesn’t look big enough to pay an adult bus fare 😀
🙂
So Englanders whats tje view on Cokanasiga? Looks good ball in hand and males the liles of George North look small but turns like a supertanker being chased by Iranian speedboats. I wouldnt pick him for Wales as we'd struggle to hide his weaknesses but England may be able to hide him...you need to start Ford too dont you? 10.Ford 12 Faz and 13 Tuilagi, May and Nowell/Watson with Daly at 15?
Discussion on Barrits shoulder charge and the sanctions for high tackle / shoulder charge. The suggestion is that the player sent off should be able to be replaced by another after 10 mins ie in this situation Barrit would have been off but the All Blacks could go back to 15 players using a different lock after 10 mins
I am not sure what to think about this. No doubt a red card is a huge penalty for the whole team. Its very hard for a team down a player to make a fair game of it. We have seen this many times From The welsh red card a few years ago to this game to Scotlands stuffing of Aus after they had a man red cared to the lions series only leveled after a red card.
On the other hand Barrit and those other incidents were all very dangerous. Player have been put out of the game and in the last couple of years the procedures the Refs follow to give a red card have been refined to remove variables.
One thing I would like is on a yellow to use a system like they do in ice hockey. Once say 10 pts have been scored the yellow card is over even if its only 3 mins.
On the red I do quite like the suggestion of the red carded player being able to be replaced by someone different after 10 mins.
I want the game to be a spectacle and cards often spoil the spectacle making an even contest into an uneven one
Note this is not about whether Barritt should have been red carded just about the severity of the sanction
Red card. I think your down a man. Keeps everyone thinking about their responsibilities to the team. The opportunity to come back to 15 gives the you the chance to break the laws especially out wide.
There would be a lot more deliberate knock ons in the defensive line. Save a definite try with deliberate foul play be replaced in 10mins. Would also really favour the big nations with class benches.
On the red I do quite like the suggestion of the red carded player being able to be replaced by someone different after 10 mins
Red cards are needed to protect players, if you dont like them tackle correctly. Leave as is.
One thing I would like is on a yellow to use a system like they do in ice hockey. Once say 10 pts have been scored the yellow card is over even if its only 3 mins.
Why, yellows are to encourage open play and stop cheating these laws would see the punishment capped and mean the offenders can gamble on conceding 7 and only lose 10 at worst. I dont think these laws need changing...
I would like to see something done with scrums, seems like any team with a weaker scrum just gets pinged and yellowed for being weaker. The stronger team should get the benefit by pushing the others back. It might help reduce the gym monkey massive props and make a faster looser game, gets boring watching a stronger team get a pen everytime they get a nudge on, fair enough if its dropped but just being pushed back is not an automatic pen.
On the red I do quite like the suggestion of the red carded player being able to be replaced by someone different after 10 mins.
I’m not sure, I can see your point, but the way it is at present probably has more effect on long term behaviour. Maybe.
Anyway
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4t4YiXWPBpo
On Scrums I would make a lot of the technical offenses free kick not a penalty. Maybe go 10 m forward for the free kick. Feet going from under you,. slipped bind etc. Not for deliberate offense but for the inadvertent ones. Repeat offenses still get a yellow card?
I absolutely loathe the "hold the ball in the scrum to milk a penalty" Ruins the game as a spectacle and also I loathe the "collapse the scrum get a reset to waste time"
Over the summer I have watched a lot of older games - scrums never used to be such a penalty fest.
Red card. I think your down a man. Keeps everyone thinking about their responsibilities to the team.
Agreed. As above,mid you don't like red cards, don't do anything that would get you one, like a deliberate shoulder to the head for example...
Also, if you don't like conceding points because you weren't paying attention to the game, pay attention to the game.
I would think if you go forward say 5m and it collapses its reset 5m forward with the dominant team getting put in. Preventing collapse when going backwards is almost impossible. Collapses at start fair enough ping it but lets try to get the ball in play. The refs need to take responsibility for the mess too. Pinging teams all the team promotes pen milking.
On the red I do quite like the suggestion of the red carded player being able to be replaced by someone different after 10 mins.
I agree.
Rugby is generally unbalanced when one team permanently goes to 14 - with a few notable exceptions - and the match can be ruined.
The American sports get it right. If players get ejected the penalty is served and the offending player is subsequently replaced.
I agree.
Rugby is generally unbalanced when one team permanently goes to 14 – with a few notable exceptions – and the match can be ruined.
The American sports get it right. If players get ejected the penalty is served and the offending player is subsequently replaced.
I dont get it, surely the idea is to prevent foul player especially dangerous play. If the team loses then good you deserved to. With on field replays and video refs I think the balance is right. You could send on Moriarty to take out Dan Carter in the first 5mins of the world cup final and then replace him with another player?
20 mins of 14 players then back to 15?
20 mins of 14 players then back to 15?
But why change it? Yes it spoils the game as a contest, but so what thats the point.
I am not wedded to the idea - just thought it was interesting.
I dont get it, surely the idea is to prevent foul player especially dangerous play. If the team loses then good you deserved to. With on field replays and video refs I think the balance is right. You could send on Moriarty to take out Dan Carter in the first 5mins of the world cup final and then replace him with another player?
Yeah, I know what you mean but you also get situations like Elliott Daly getting sent off against Argentina for takng the player out in the air. Those sendings off seem entirely dependent on whether the player lands on his head or not - which is a complete lottery. Or that Cipriani red card for Gloucester which was total nonsense.
I reckon delberate targeting of key players would have to be dealt with by hefty bans after the event.
Could we go to three levels of sanction? So a deliberate piece of foul play like Hoopers or Baritts shoulder charge to the head gets a red but an accidental piece of dangerous play like Daly gets a lower level of sanction somewhere between the current red or yellow? Or does that just add another layer of subjectivity and make reffing less consistent?
Field hockey has 3 types of card - warning, temp send off, permanent send off. Could rugby go to Yellow - player returns after 10 mins, Orange - player can be replaced after 10 mins. red - rest of the game with 14 players?
The sanctions on tackle in the air has certainly improved things - when was the last time you saw a player attempting to catch a ball being cartwheeled thru the air?
So Englanders whats tje view on Cokanasiga?
England's obsession with size continues.
Whatever happened to small guys who could play on the wing?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VwSwiZs9TYA
Yeah, I know what you mean but you also get situations like Elliott Daly getting sent off against Argentina for takng the player out in the air.
Well dont, he tackled the man in the air, just dont do it, clear red, clearly dangerous just dont do it.
he tackled the man in the air, just dont do it, clear red, clearly dangerous just dont do it.
I agree but if the guy had landed on his feet it would have been a different scenario so it's a bit of a lottery isn't it?
I think 10 minutes with 14 then back to 15 with a different player is a fairer outcome.
Namaste - we have Darcy Graham - 5'9 and under 12 stone. Very young and inexperienced and possibly our best winger. Yesterday he shackled Roka pretty well ( dunno if he missed him for the first try as I didn't see it)
Edit - Raka is not as big as I thought - 4 inches taller and 2 stone heavier than Graham
AA - did you say that when The welsh forward ( AWJ?) got a red in the WC ( yes I know - the guidance changed and now that would only be a yellow)
I agree but if the guy had landed on his feet it would have been a different scenario so it’s a bit of a lottery isn’t it?
No, because he still would have tackled the man in the air. The act is the offense, not the outcome.
If you want to keep 15 on the pitch, don't do anything that gets you a red card. It's pretty simple.
Field hockey has 3 types of card
The three types are Green - go away for two minutes, Yellow - go away for a minimum of 5 minutes and come back when the umpire says so (normally between 5 - 10 minutes). Red - Go away and don't come back. It works, in my county last year there were 11 red cards. But lot's of yellows. (And two yellows = red). A red card is an automatic ban from the sport for 16 days, plus any extra applied for dangerous play.
CFH - if the guy had landed on feet it would only have been a pen, on his back a yellow on his head a red.
sadmadallen - thatks for the clarification. Its a while since I played!
I agree but if the guy had landed on his feet it would have been a different scenario so it’s a bit of a lottery isn’t it?
I think 10 minutes with 14 then back to 15 with a different player is a fairer outcome.
I agree with the first point but think the answer is to treat them all the same ie red.
AA – did you say that when The welsh forward ( AWJ?) got a red in the WC
It was Sam Warburton and yes decision was correct, the frustration came from the fact that others hadnt followed the guidance in the same world cup. I was gutted, it was accidental, it ruined the game but you know what Sam never did it again.
Krypton THM getting a ban didn’t lead to a situation vacant, don’t be that guys spiritual successor. Nothing wrong with a quick penalty, the physios weren’t dealing with a head injury and the carded player had been dealt with. The England support team were just slowing play down to allow England to reorganise, any comment on sportsmanship there? As to your other point, North is a 2 times Lion, why wouldn’t he score against a full strength England?
I’m not. I’m overseas and 5h behind you so yesterday was reliant on what I could see from my FB feed, hence asking for clarity on the quick tap situation. I’ve read it here and on the media now so fair do’s. On the North comments I’m just reacting to the fact that he’s being painted as a genius for that play in some places whereas in reality it was a 3 player over lap and a clear run in with no defence in front of him - notwithstanding his skills elsewhere and in this play to catch and finish - therefore not the hardest or most amazing score a player of his calibre has ever scored.
Credit to Wales though. Reads as though our backs were kept out of the game and were given no opportunity to try to unlock that good Welsh defence.
Reads as though our backs were kept out of the game and were given no opportunity to try to unlock that good Welsh defence.
My take on that is the English backs actually looked decent until Farrell came on when they never got another decent ball. although they looked decent the welsh defence kept them out just and I also thought Enghland blew a few chances
Lol. That explains why it’s important to get several opinions, if you read sky sports player ratings this morning it essentially paints a picture that England were pretty average. Put that into his threads perspective and that’s doing Wales an injustice.
we have Darcy Graham – 5’9 and under 12 stone. Very young and inexperienced and possibly our best winger
Yeah, I remember him from 7s too -very elusive.
I think Christian Wade couldda been another Shane Williams if he'd been given a fair shot.
England have raided the 7s pantry with McConnochie but only after he'd come back to XVs but they should have thought about bringing Dan Norton back. He was superior to McConnochie in most respects. France brought Vakatawa straight back from 7s with great results.
watched the NZ match….be afraid, be very afraid,they were scarily good.
They were good but not scarily so. Australia were useless - the surprise is that they managed to beat NZ last week. It feels like they can’t put a phase together without a handling error, forward pass or whatever.
And when talking about red cards it might be worth asking why Coles didn’t get one for picking a player up and literally throwing him away. No control, no regard to safety, a deliberately reckless act of foul play designed to intimidate. Of course, if the scrum half had landed on his head... 🙄
TJ , you're right, was muddling my mind with high tackle laws!
CFH - its the same with the high tackle - accidental / no force - pen. Deliberate or reckless - yellow, with force - red
CFH – its the same with the high tackle – accidental / no force – pen. Deliberate or reckless – yellow, with force – red
How does that relate to the Cipriani red then? BY that reckoning it shouldda been a penalty only.
Look, if a bloke runs into another bloke and takes him out in the air then that's a penalty - fair enough. But if the different sanctions are based on the outcome then that's nonsense. That means three blokes could do EXACTLY the same thing and one could be penalised, one could get a yellow and one a red.
Ice hockey has the best system. Player gets ejected but he's replaced by another after the penalty is served. If a team is short handed and the other team scores on the powerplay then you get your man back again.
So, Jones is whinging again, and Barnes is saying England are nothing but World Cup hopefuls, Ford was shit and Farrell one dimensional.
Business as usual then.
Cips - on a break in NY - has spoken to basically say after he returned home from the fitness camp he never heard from Jones again. As if we didn’t know it, sounds like that bridge has burned.
Rumours are Curry and Underhill will be in Vs Ireland.
Finally a decent video of the North try, you can see clearly the ref blowing whistle to restart, no England players appear down injured.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VPQa25-xH8o
Finally a decent video of the North try, you can see clearly the ref blowing whistle to restart, no England players appear down injured.
TBH I can't see what all the fuss was about.
You need to be ready to play as soon as a penalty is awarded and once the ref signals to restart if you're not ready it's your own fault. I think I learned that in Primary 5.
TBH I can’t see what all the fuss was about.
England lost.
😂
Ah but only due to those sneaky welsh not playing the game properly! 😉
Talking of sneaky, Itoje's attempts to hold down Josh Adams are very amateur, needs some lessons from AWJ.