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there are contingency plans in place including the possibility of moving games
Why are no games being moved then? I understand that it's impractical to re-allocate tickets but why not play in an empty stadium if it comes to that?
but why not play in an empty stadium if it comes to that
It's a good question but apparently not one that the RWC are required to answer.
Games like this show that they should have had some kind of secondry competition and maybe the finalists make it to the world cup proper,
So the RWC would only involve 8 teams? Even then a couple of them would expect a hammering.
Perhaps the rugby world in general should help improve the standard of play among the lesser teams making RWC a meaningful competition. I can’t remember which team has only played 19 tests since the last World Cup - that’s laughable. There’s plenty of money in the sport, it should be invested in the sport’s future.
But....this is a discussion that’s happened every RWC since 1987!
Perhaps the rugby world in general should help improve the standard of play among the lesser teams making RWC a meaningful competition
I agree completely, but it won't happen because there's money involved and the Six Nations/SANZAR administrators do not want to share what they have. The term "Tier 1" doesn't actually refer to the best teams, just the ones that are in established competitions. Unless the likes of Japan, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Canada, USA, etc can get to play the top teams regularly, things will not improve.
On expansion - top teams should go to the pacific islands to play. Even if they send a B team. No one had been for years before scotland last went and I do not think anyone has been since. Scotland had a great tour of Fiji and were very well recieved by the hosts - and reaped the reward in some ways by creating a link leading to quite a few pacific island players joining our clubs
Pacific islands could even have a "pacific islands lions" team for away tours
I think they tried a Pacific islands team a few years ago TJ but the sanzar countries have too much riding on poaching their best players.
Let's not pretend Northern Hemisphere clubs haven't also played their part. How many players have been pressured into not appearing or retiring from international competition by their clubs?
I was lucky enough to spend 3 weeks in Fiji over the summer. Brilliant place. Great people.
We went to the Fiji Canada game. Good fun but even the best tickets were only £10 and it wasn't even half full. It's scandalous that NZ have never played in Fiji, I agree, but big teams touring there won't help that much in financial terms. The pop is only 900,000 so the TV market is limited too.
What the small nations need is a bigger slice of the pie from the RWC dish and a share of gate receipts when they play away games.
As it is the big fish keep getting bigger. Monopolising all the income and stealing all the players.
If the PI nations had the means to keep their players and be able to recall the ones who'd been capped for the sake of it by tier 1 nations then we'd see a very different RWC.
BruceWee - the fijian scots were all available to represent Fiji. at big cost to the clubs
the fijian scots were all available to represent
Indeed they were but, in theory all players should be released for international duty regardless.
Nemani Nadolo and Timani Nagusa both mysteriously "retired" from international rugby at the same time. Coincidentally both play for Montpellier. I'm sure it was nothing to do with their improved contracts?
They're not the only ones.
BruceWee – the fijian scots were all available to represent Fiji. at big cost to the clubs
I know. But I suspect they didn't get the choice of contracts that English and French clubs reportedly offer Pacific Islanders. 30 - 40% extra if they agree to 'retire' from international competition.
Interesting conversation on 5Live last night about the Pacific Islanders. It is possible for players to play for clubs in NZ leagues but part of the deal is that NZ then retain the right to sign them up for the All Blacks which does make it hard for them to get the development needed to benefit the national team. And it sounds like it is hard enough to coalesce talent with so many Islands and not much in the way of supporting infrastructure and quality pitches.
Not sure where the conversations have got to in World Rugby about the tier 2 nations and how they can be better developed and get more opportunities against the big boys. It's almost as if the established nations don't want them to develop too much in case they start to upset the current status quo. Only obvious changes over the last decade or so is the admission of Italy into the 6 Nations and Argentina into the Southern Hemisphere competition
Bruce, you appear to be complaining that we aren't pressuring them to refuse international rugby? I always thought the SRU stance was actually quite decent.
What the small nations need is a bigger slice of the pie from the RWC dish and a share of gate receipts when they play away games.
This x100.
Bruce, you appear to be complaining that we aren’t pressuring them to refuse international rugby?
Nope, definitely not. I'm not a total arsehole. I'm proud to see Glasgow players in as many teams as possible during the World Cup.
I'm just pissed off that the same stories come out every WC, World Rugby makes the same noises, and then it happens again 4 years later.
There was an article about the use of scholarships in NZ and Oz for teenage talent in the Times, but I can’t find it. This is an older one from the Telegraph and is in the same tone.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/fiji/11854929/Rugby-uncovered-Despicable-abuse-of-young-Pacific-talent-is-huge-stain-on-game.html
They're obviously not using the right gameplan:
TL:DR George North is a waste of space
Discuss
I expect the gameplan involved trying to stay away from Radradra. George has been decent in the other games, he's not the threat he once was but he's the best option we have at 14 given Liam at 15.
PS that flow diagram was the Ospreys gameplan when Shane Williams was playing!!
Wales to play Uruguay, 3 9's in 23 and one 10!!!
Wales: Halfpenny; Adams, Watkin, Parkes, Amos; Patchell, A Davies; Smith, Elias, Lewis, Davies, Beard, Shingler, Tipuric (capt) Wainwright.
Replacements: Dee, Carre, W Jones, Ball, Moriarty, James Davies, T Williams, G Davies.
3 9’s in 23 and one 10!!
Yeah but Gareth Davies could play anywhere. He's simply a great rugby player.
Yet he's still only your second best scrum-half........
Yeah but Gareth Davies could play anywhere. He’s simply a great rugby player.
I assumed it would be James Davies. He thinks he can play anywhere..
Would struggle with the concept of seeing G Davies and Tomos Williams in 10 and 12!!! I expect James Davies may be covering wing, seen him do that for Scarlets.
An article in i newspaper this morning said that the contingency plans for bad weather that were talked about a year ago included playing games in the week after the allotted time, or moving to a different stadium. Nothing was mentioned about cancelling games or awarding draws.
Now I’m the most cynical person in the world (especially in respect to rugby) so it doesn’t surprise me too much that the host nation might get a free pass through to the QFs. 😂
How are you forgetting the fantastic 10 that is Hadleigh Parkes? eeek
Given the stramash about football WC in Doha because it's hot. Who thought Japan in typhoon season was a good idea? As surely there's a non-typhoon season.
All the pundits appear certain Wales will beat Uruguay, so I’ll try not to fret although I cannot picture how the game will go. Uruguay beat Fiji I believe in part due to Fiji fielding a second string team(?); whilst I have confidence in Wales’ backup players ability, their playing out of position and unfamiliarity with playing together as a team gives me some concern. I guess I will be able to relax if & when Wales go say 15 points ahead. ——> someone put me more at ease!
Anyway, Ireland v Samoa up shortly, with Ireland needing a bonus point win for certain progress. Almost a certainty? I guess they need to do more than that and have a special performance to give any realistic hope of winning their QF game.
Oops, looks like I’m sitting down waiting on the wrong game. Australia v Georgia c’mon Georgia.
SRU have thrown their toys of of the pram and threatening legal action if the game is called off and marked as a draw. They’ve been speaking to a hot shot in London who reckons they have a case...
Shame it might come to that but if their boys hadn’t put in such a woeful and abject performance in against Ireland, it might not have come down to this. Given that our Celtic neighbours love to poke fun at us, especially when there’s moaning there is a fair bit from Scotland right now be it ‘surprise’ at calls for cooked feeds or this.
So Scotland signed up to the tournament playing conditions which states any pool games unable to be played will be cancelled. Now it affects them they no longer like it and want to sue??
It’s exactly the same in the cricket World Cup and affected a few of the bigger teams.
Shame it might come to that but if their boys hadn’t put in such a woeful and abject performance in against Ireland,
To be honest I think everyone in the Scottish camp would have assumed a qualification decised against Japan.
Yes Scotland were piss poor against Ireland but its not a game they would have necessarily expected to win. They were probably banking on 3 wins (Samao, Russia, Japan) to get them through with Ireland winning 4 and Japan winning 2. Japan beating Ireland threw that up in the air, but it doesn't change the fact that the Japan Scotland game would still be crucial for qualification.
Yes Scotland were piss poor against Ireland but its not a game they would have necessarily expected to win. They were probably banking on 3 wins (Samao, Russia, Japan) to get them through with Ireland winning 4 and Japan winning 2. Japan beating Ireland threw that up in the air, but it doesn’t change the fact that the Japan Scotland game would still be crucial for qualification.
I agree with this and fully understand Scotland’s dismay. However, suing seems questionable and letting it be known that’s what they are considering, more so. The whining about the penalty for the crooked feed in the Japan v Samoa game was a poor move and does not reflect well on Townsend.
They were probably banking on 3 wins (Samao, Russia, Japan) to get them through with Ireland winning 4 and Japan winning 2. Japan beating Ireland threw that up in the air, but it doesn’t change the fact that the Japan Scotland game would still be crucial for qualification.
At the last WC, Japan and Scotland were in the same pool, along with South Africa. Japan beat SA in the biggest upset in WC history so it came down to Japan vs Scotland to see who qualified. That time, Japan only had four days between playing SA and Scotland, so they were tired for the Scotland game. Assuming that Japan would be an easy victory is really silly. Beating Ireland was a huge surprise, but it should be no surprise that qualification comes down to Japan vs Scotland, nor that bonus points are crucial. This was always going to be one of the most important games of the tournament.
Japan would have easily beaten Scotland anyway so what does it matter.
What odds on Tipuric finishing the game as a centre?
What odds on Tipuric finishing the game as a centre?
I have no idea, I wonder what the odds are on him playing 10?
This Aus Georgia game is not the greatest. Needs a Georgia try asap. England have cruised so far and it’s hard to see Australia troubling them. I wouldn’t be surprised to see England playing against 14 men again. Australia always seem to be very close to having someone sent off.
England have cruised so far and it’s hard to see Australia troubling them. I wouldn’t be surprised to see England playing against 14 men again. Australia always seem to be very close to having someone sent off.
Constant coached-in cheating as per the Michael Cheika Guide to Coaching. (See Leinster in a previous life..)
Hopefully the reffing might revert to something like normal for the QFs, so something other than foul play might be looked for.
Gauss, I reckon he'd give it a decent go!
It's a bit rich for English people to say Scotland are over-reacting given you guys bitch and moan until the rules are changed every time someone does something you don't like.
It’s a bit rich for English people to say Scotland are over-reacting given you guys bitch and moan until the rules are changed every time someone does something you don’t like.
😂
To be fair, that’s usually because they’ve not heard of the rule before.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1irXn8YaM
This will always amuse me 😁
Try Georgia! 😁😁
This will always amuse me 😁
Not as much as this 🙂
Damn, missed the conversion. What the tier 2 nations need is Neil Jenkins. Wales always have a number of quality place kickers.
A strange question, but since people on here know their onions far more than I do. Why do the forwards never take the kicks?(or do they?). For example Aaron Wainwright played football before moving late to rugby. Surely he can kick well, would there not be a benefit in a player like him being able to take the kicks?
It’s a bit rich for English people
i think you’ll find he’s Australian...
John Eales kicked for Australia as a 2nd row but don’t know of any top grade rugby teams with a forward as their main kicker now.
i think you’ll find he’s Australian…
Who? I was referring to the multiple people on here and on every comment section and rugby thread that has English voices saying variations of, 'Back in yer box, Scotland'.
But yeah, Australians never whine about anything.
Why do the forwards never take the kicks?
Any forward that did that would be a guaranteed winner of ‘Dick of the Day’ and have to spend the rest of the day wearing a toilet seat as a necklace.
Why do the forwards never take the kicks?
Any forward that did that would be a guaranteed winner of ‘Dick of the Day’ and have to spend the rest of the day wearing a toilet seat as a necklace.
I am just trying to understand why. Is it because it takes years of practise, you need to start early and when you’re a child they just give the task to a back? Or is it a build thing, the backs just being a better shape?
It's because it's too far to run for them. It's over 3steps 😆
Forwards tend to be quite chunky when young and not natural kickers of the ball. Some great exceptions. Zinzan Brooke drop goal being one.
Why do the forwards never take the kicks?
When I started playing at school everyone generally played in every position, up until the natural forwards fattened up developed. I used to play full back, despite being a natural forward, so learned to kick from hand as part of my position.
Once I left school and started playing colts then it was only the half backs and backs that practiced kicking. I’d been moved to the back row by this point, quickly followed by second row. It came as a bit of a shock when I’d put boot to ball and clear the lines. It became a bit of a tactic because the opposition wouldn’t be expecting it.
In the pro game it’s probably because the forwards don’t practice.
Problem is the forwards are too knackered to take kicks. Ideally you want your heart rate down a bit and to be nice and calm when you're place kicking. Try place kicking after a bit of scrummaging!
Because the backs are generally poncing about doing naff all they're a lot better at kicking.
I’m only just watching the Australian Georgian game. Why have the cards been downgraded for players in yellow? The Toomua tackle at 4 minutes hit the player in the throat - a yellow, surely. And 35 minutes in the 8 tries to clear a maul with an arm to the face. That’s a clear red in this competition. Is it because Cheika whinges and breaks his desk so much? Please, England, absolutely humiliate this team. (I don’t think I’ve ever wanted that, in 50+ years of being a Welshman!)
I recall reading an article ages ago (like, 20+ years) about the advent of soccer style placekicking in rugby. By that I mean in the olden days players would run straight on and toe punt it (kickers boots even had squared off toes)
Then one day if my recollection is right for a bit of a laugh some rugby kickers and some soccer apprentices got a bag of balls out and had a bit of a kicking competition, and after a few minutes to get used to kicking the oval ball, the apprentices were outkicking the seasoned rugby players in both distance and accuracy. Because they were using the instep of a stretched out foot rather than the toe of a flexed foot the effective radius was a few inches further and for the same leg speed you had faster ball contact, hence more distance.
But it was difficult to kick like that in forwards boots, so it became more of a backs only job, and it's kind of stuck from there, I guess.
Now they all wear more soccer styled lower cut boots, I wonder if a 7 foot tall lock with telescopic legs might be a potential long distance option; sure it takes years of practise to be able to hit from all over but could you get good enough to be a 50% option from Thorburn sorts of distances with a bit of effort?
My father was a prop and a kicker, he kicked a goal against a South African touring side in the 50s, he said in those days kicking "round the corner" was regarded as ungentlemanly.
ONe thing with the RWC I do not understand is why they no longer do Cup, Shield and bowl competitions
Early RWCs they had the top 8 ( or 4??) after the pool stages play off for the cup, the next 4 for the shield and the next 4 for the bowl
This gave most teams competitive games in the final stages and meant that smaller teams still got a chance at a trophy.
I really like this concept and wished they did it in the european cup as well
Early RWCs they had the top 8 ( or 4??) after the pool stages play off for the cup, the next 4 for the shield and the next 4 for the bowl
Did they? I dont recall this.
Edit
I am sure they did AA. It was a good concept. 1991 cup IIRC I cannot find confirmation tho so maybe my weird memory playing tricks again
I recall reading an article ages ago (like, 20+ years) about the advent of soccer style placekicking in rugby
Interesting stuff.
The NFL underwent a similar transformation when the toe pokers were ousted by European influenced soccer style kickers who had far greater range.
Nemani Nadolo was a fine example of a giant sized back who seemed to achieve massive range with little effort.
In golf, it's clubhead speed that translates into ball speed that achieves long distance. The pros on the Long Drive Tour (or whatever it's called) generate a lot higher speeds than the PGA tour players.
Kickers like Elliot Daly or Curwin Bosch seem to generate massive range without being huge themselves. Must be high foot speed at the end of the swing and very clean contact with the ball?
I am sure they did AA. It was a good concept. 1991 cup IIRC I cannot find confirmation tho so maybe my weird memory playing tricks again
Certainly not 91. I’m looking at the official guide now, and they had four pools of four. Zimbabwe played - I’d forgotten that!
Australia played Western Samoa at Pontypool Park - a venue I associate more with cyclocross. The guide claims a capacity of 20,000, which is quite a promise for a small municipal park.😂
I must be confused again then. *Mumbles and wanders off*
Mumbles and wanders off*
No, there were no games in Mumbles. 😁 Although - true story - one of my dogs tried to bite Phil Kearns’ hand as he was walking down there in 91.
Hope the dog had its rabies jabs.
A wiki article on "kicking round the corner"
On a slightly related note, Addidas did a advert with Beckham and Wilkinson learning each other's "art" - supposedly Beckham was amazed at how quickly Wilkinson picked up striking free kicks, but may have been marketing crap.
In golf, it’s clubhead speed that translates into ball speed that achieves long distance. The pros on the Long Drive Tour (or whatever it’s called) generate a lot higher speeds than the PGA tour players.
They use longer shafts, 2" longer than allowed on the golf tour so for the same arm speed then clubhead speeds would be about 5% faster already.
So add in really giving it a rip where accuracy is less of an issue, and they really do smack it a long way
The high tackle insanity continues. A yellow card for the tackle against Stockdale? The Samoan went down to almost waist height but Stockdale dropped his shoulder to meet the contact. I agree with the Samoans - what are they supposed to do to tackle legally. He couldn’t get any lower.
from the commentary, not accelerate into the tackle?
The high tackle insanity continues. A yellow card for the tackle against Stockdale? The Samoan went down to almost waist height but Stockdale dropped his shoulder to meet the contact. I agree with the Samoans – what are they supposed to do to tackle legally. He couldn’t get any lower.
Me too it’s crazy. The commentary saying you have to tackle lower, but unless you’re crawling along the floor I don’t see how you can - he was very low. It appears to me, that you have to let the person go past and then tackle from behind. All the stopping for the tmo is getting out of hand/very dull.
Disclaimer: I have never played.
from the commentary, not accelerate into the tackle?
Yes. Since the pundits didn’t know the difference between a tornado and a typhoon, and can’t explain a forward pass, I’m not sure they know what acceleration is.
Well that was much easier, clear red card.
Ireland still looking good for the bonus point win.
“Tusi Pisi, 37 years of age now.” Does the commentator get paid a fiver for every time he can say that phrase, or is his name actually Tusi Pisi Thirty Seven Years Of Age Now? 🙄
And I now know which English clubs all of these Samoans have played for, but have no idea who the Irish players play for. 😂
When does the minute for the conversion begin? Pretty sure Sexton went over the minute there.
Sexton rolling back the years, I predicted a Samoan would be sent off I just didn’t think it would be our Samoan!
When does the minute for the conversion begin? Pretty sure Sexton went over the minute there.
It used to be when they placed the tee, I think. I don’t think anyone times it and I don’t remember seeing a kick disallowed for being over the time limit anyway.
They use longer shafts, 2″ longer than allowed on the golf tour so for the same arm speed then clubhead speeds would be about 5% faster already.
Yeah that's right. They use longer shafts but I know that PGA pros that have tried it still don't generate as much speed as the top long driving guys do.
So sure, a 7' tall bloke who can generate the same leg speed as a 6' tall bloke should be able to kick the ball further. Usain Bolt could the generate the same cadence as smaller runners but, at 6'5" his biggger stride made him go faster.
He was a freak though.....
The commentary saying you have to tackle lower, but unless you’re crawling along the floor I don’t see how you can – he was very low.
They need to tackle more passively and not go for the big hit all the time.
Congratulations Ireland, through to the QF’s.
6Nations:
England, France, Ireland, Wales through.
Italy out.
Scotland need the game to go ahead and score 4 points more than Japan. Time to start praying.
Do Wales finish above Aus even if the game is cancelled?