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The 4 day turnaround is no excuse at all.
I agree no excuse for the top tier teams, it all falls nicely for Wales as the players can rest from Fiji until a 1/4 final, my point was how it all falls for Japan will have a big impact for them, the drop off between first and second teams is huge for Wales U expect its bigger for Japan.
I don't see how the 4 day turnaround is an issue for us. Medium strength team against Russia then an emptying of the bench when (not counting chickens) a bonus point is achieved. Russia gassed really badly against the Japanese I think against heavier sides such as us and Ireland it could be horrible for them.
I don’t see how the 4 day turnaround is an issue for us.
That wasnt my point, I was wondering how the fixtures are for Japan as it would harm them more.
They get a long time to prepare for scotland - more than a week IIRC. this time around the fixtures favour them - last time it was us!
Fair enough, game on then!!
Not being cheeky - genuine question - I can understand "specific training" to play a team that has few weaknesses - but how does a team train "specifically" to beat a team with so many weaknesses?
Surely that then becomes "general training"?
Aye - imagine fiddling the schedule to favour the hosts even tho they are tier 2!
I have no problem with this actually - given the unfairness to them last time especially. I also doubt it was done deliberately
Not being cheeky – genuine question – I can understand “specific training” to play a team that has few weaknesses – but how does a team train “specifically” to beat a team with so many weaknesses?
Surely that then becomes “general training”?
I dunno, I am only repeating the Japan coach, he implied that their whole RWC campaign was based on beating Ireland.
Note to Scotland. Don't play like Ireland..
It sounds like post-match trash talk to me! "We meant this to happen it was totally on purpose so be afraid". Aye right.
Maybe, but the same thing happened with SA. It sounds more like humility to me, the guy was feeling sorry for Ireland as they have to prepare for all opponents. Japan coach was admitting that his team are unlikely to do so well against anyone else.
he implied that their whole RWC campaign was based on beating Ireland
I don't think he meant the whole campaign, but rather that they kept an eye on Ireland's players and tactics and made sure they trained to neutralize the dangers. New Zealand did a similar thing against South Africa, any serious team will do that. Ireland probably didn't take Japan seriously enough and assumed they would be easy-beats. It doesn't mean that Japan won't have also kept an eye on Scotland and came up with tactics to counter how they expect Scotland will play. Japan would have assumed that they would lose to Ireland, but hoped to earn a losing bonus point. That, plus beating Scotland should have been enough to get through to the QFs. Obviously, they would have been keeping a close eye on Scotland because they would have assumed that beating Scotland was their only serious hope to advancing.
but rather that they kept an eye on Ireland’s players and tactics and made sure they trained to neutralize the dangers. New Zealand did a similar thing against South Africa, any serious team will do that.
Apparently Cheika admitted to not having watched Wales six nations games. Explains why no one thought to tell Genia that Davies will be looking to pick off flat passes to forwards out wide from the ruck. Even the Scots woke up to this one eventually!!
I do not think any sensible rugby fan would see Scotland beating Japan with a 4 try bonus point and denying them a bonus point ( which I think is what we will need)
No that's not neccesarily the case. Assuming Japan and Scotland go into the fixture on 14 and 10 points respectively then Scotland need to gain 4pts over Japan from the game.
So:
Scotland beat Japan by 7+ with no BPs awarded.
Scotland beat Japan by 7+ points with both teams earning a try BP.
Scotland beat Japan by less than 7pts and Scotland earn a try BP but Japan don't.
Scotland go through in all 3 cases because if teams finish on equal points then the 1st tie breaker is the head-to-head record.
Apparently Cheika admitted to not having watched Wales six nations games.
I did say "any serious team". Cheika is a clown.
South African replace Kriel with Willemse, takes the total to 18 Saracen players at the world cup good job the Premiership hasn`t started yet !
So when are my new favourite team of stout yeomen englanders playing?
#carryithomeboys
#redrosepride
#pleaselosetoAusinthequarters
Swooon
You know he's married now, AA?
You know he’s married now, AA?
So is my wife if it doesnt stop her 😉
#pleaselosetoAusinthequarters
Funny man, you know damn well we won't make it out of the group stages. And if we do we will be in 2nd place, which means we will probably get you!
Look I dont want to play England in the quarters, Argentina would be good if not pray for our scrum v France...You England lot need to be positive, you can easily beat Argentina and should beat France the all we need is you to beat NZ, you do all the bloody time compared to us and us to beat SA, could happen, no laughing at then back and the...imagine the shit on here if it was England Wales in the final...my head would explode!!
PS watch us lose to Fiji!!!
ha ha, I don't want to play Wales in the quarters! If anyone can bogey us its Wales.
PS I appreciate the need to be positive, but I don't think anyone in the England setup reads STW, in fact I expect the readership stats for this thread amount to about 20 blokes only.
PS I appreciate the need to be positive, but I don’t think anyone in the England setup reads STW, in fact I expect the readership stats for this thread amount to about 20 blokes only.
You break my heart!!
Now come on england
come on england
come on england
come on england
come on england
I'm not singing that shit song though, sorry.
Note to Scotland. Don’t play like Ireland..
We don't. We play like the anti ireland! I am certain Japan will have tactics to negate us - as indeed ireland did the sneaky beggers!
What I want to know is how come if Scotland get out of our group we get either SA or NZ - the two best teams in the tournament arguably and England get either Argentina or France.
Not fair - the big bully boys are fixing it to give us no chance
*Sulks*
I’m not singing that shit song though, sorry.
Which one? The one Negro slaves used to sing to give themselves hope of an afterlife free from the horrific conditions of slavery. The same one England fans decided to use to serenade a black winger...Or a different one? I mean ours is a sodding dirge about a battle nearly 800 years ago, but c’mon guys!
England get either Argentina or France.
England get Wales or Australia
The one Negro slaves used to sing to give themselves hope of an afterlife free from the horrific conditions of slavery.
Yeah that one
still not NZ or SA - its a conspiracy I tell you to do down the poor downtrodden scots!
NZ or SA – its a conspiracy I tell you to do down the poor downtrodden scots!
Errr.....shouldn't you be worrying about Japan first?
If Jamie Joseph happens to be one of the 20 blokes that read this thread then you've just given him his pre-match team talk.
If he's here he'll be around to stamp on this soon!!!
namaste - I am - but assuming we go thru whats the reward - a slapping from the big boys.
If he’s here he’ll be around to stamp on this soon!!!
Yeah I remember an interview with Bracken after he'd retired. He suffered pain from that injury for the rest of his career. Every training session. Every game.
Dirty bastard!
Away from the RWC - what a flippin' great try!
I just watched the Japan Ireland game. Oh dear. Scotland really do have to watch out.
fantastic discipline, pace and accuracy from Japan - Townsend really needs to watch this on repeat over and over again. A few things to pick up on and adapt to. Japan hardly put anyone into the breakdown, their line speed was great and many times they did the stand up and pick the ball up trick when tackled. Japan hardly kicked as well
Ireland just had no answer to the pace. Scotland will have to have Finn pulling something out of his bag of tricks for sure for this one. Do scotland try to go to a setpiece based game or do they try to outpace and outthink Japan?
I just watched the Japan Ireland game. Oh dear. Scotland really do have to watch out.
The way their backline moves flowed and the way their forwards used their feet before contact rather than just smashing it up was a joy to watch. I'm sorry but if they play like that again I want to see then progress.
I’ve got low expectations if England; it’s easier that way. Argentina have been poo so far but could well pull something out if the bag now that they’re playing for their survival. As for France, they looked really good for 30 mins against Argentina. If they bother to play like that a bit longer they’ll probably beat us.
Scotland need to work in their handling when they play Japan. It was pretty poor against Samoa.
I thought that was the conditions? Somoas handling was poor too.
Come on duckers it's not a dirge it's a bloody waltz. Our Singy song is a ballroom dance not a cry to arms.
Three of the tries came in quick succession from black player Chris Oti making his Twickenham debut. A group of boys from the Benedictine school Douai following a tradition at their school games sang "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" whenever a try was scored. When Oti scored his second try, amused spectators standing close to the boys joined in, and when Oti scored his hat-trick the song was heard around the ground.
Never knew that, I ride past that school pretty often.
Come on duckers it’s not a dirge it’s a bloody waltz. Our Singy song is a ballroom dance not a cry to arms.
I thought it was a "lament" - its not in waltz time is it?
it’s not a dirge it’s a bloody waltz.
I thought it was a “lament”
Whatever it is its a shit rugby song.
I quite like flower of scotland and the italian anthem is a lovely jaunty number!
I thought we were talking about " flower of Scotland"
the Italian anthem is a great tune - but the translation of the words is a bit bloody and violent:
Brothers of Italy,
Italy has awakened;
Scipio's helmet
she has put on her head.
Where is the Victory? (ref. 1)
Offer her the hair; (ref. 2)
because slave of Rome
God created her.
Let us unite!
We are ready to die;
Italy called.
We have been for centuries
stamped on, and laughed at,
because we are not one people,
because we are divided.
Let's unite under
one flag, one dream;
To melt together
Already the time has come.
Let us unite!
We are ready to die;
Italy called.
Let's unite, let's love;
The union and the love
Reveal to the people
God's ways.
We swear to liberate
the native soil:
United, for God,
Who can beat us?
Let us unite!
We are ready to die;
Italy called.
From the Alps to Sicily,
Everywhere is Legnano; (ref 3)
Every man of Ferruccio (ref 4)
has the heart and the hand;
the children of Italy
are called Balilla; (ref 5)
The sound of every church bell
calling for evening prayers.
Let us unite!
We are ready to die;
Italy called.
They are branches that bend
the sold swords; (ref. 6)
Already the eagle of Austria
has lost its feathers.
the blood of Italy
and the Polish blood (ref. 7)
Drank with Cossacks
But its heart was burnt.
Let us unite!
We are ready to die;
Italy called.
I am a bit disappointed not to have seen any innovative tactics or trick plays yet - Have I missed them? Are teams keeping them under wraps for the QF or are the days of innovation over?
Swing Low sucks. GSTQ also sucks. Granted Scotland one is a bit dull but it sounds good when sung with a Scottish accent. I like Jerusalem though, World In Union is also good. Almost everyone has a better anthem than us. I think that's why we are looking for something else. La Marseillaise and the Italian one are both ace.
Ok, so while we're at it and I admit my ignorance here - whats the meaning of the words in the Welsh anthem that sound very much like "Clah..... CLAH...."?
Sorry.
I would far prefer England to use "Jerusalem" than GSTQ Firstly because GSTQ is the british anthem not the English one, secondly because it speaks of all of England north and south, Urban and rural and finally because in the truncated form used at sporting events you could finish on a rousing high
whats the meaning of the words in the Welsh anthem
Englanders are scum and we are going to batter them....😉
I would far prefer England to use “Jerusalem”
And also because Jerusalem quite possibly is not as patriotric a verse as England supporters want it to be... 🙂
I take it everyone knows that "flower of scotland" was written in the 60s and only came into use in rugby in the 90s
~Edit - I think its value is saved by the lines " those days are past now, and in the past they must remain" otherwise it would be as jingoisitic as GSTQ
And also because Jerusalem quite possibly is not as patriotric a verse as England supporters want it to be… 🙂
It's not?
I thought it was a claim that Jesus came here, Holy Grail and all that? It came from a poem?
edit here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_did_those_feet_in_ancient_time
Blakes poem wonders if Heaven was in England for a brief time. Sounds quite patriotic to me. He is kind of saying God chose England to be special.
Englanders are scum and we are going to batter them
I think half the world has a version of that as their anthem.
France has been poo this morning; their discipline has been woeful. They’ve got the bonus point but looked woeful doing it.
The welsh one is Land of my fathers by the way.
Gwlad gwlad, is land land
The welsh one is Land of my fathers by the way.
The best version you will ever hear is in Ivor the Engine when Idris asks them to sing it. Never fails to bring a tear to my eye.
What do folk think of the war dances NZ and others do?
I think Scotland should be allowed to have a war dance as well based around antics in city centres every weekend
Your ma got a sewing machine - stitch that ( headbutt motion)
Git it right up ye ( arms crossed fist pump)
I'm gonna shag yer burd ( pelvic thrusts)
Cop a load of this ( moons)
He is kind of saying God chose England to be special.
That's one interpretation. 🙂
Another might be that England, once graced by a visit from Jesus himself, has descended into a wasteland of industrialisation and greed which requires violent revolution to correct. Something for fans to ponder as they breath in the matchday fumes on the A316.
Sure, Blake might feel that England should be special, but the strong suggestion is that something has gone wrong...
Just seems like a more refined version of Betjeman's 'Slough' to a cynic like me.
Scottish anthem works far better IMO when they're allowed to bring a piper. Every country needs something special to it, I think. For the Americans and the French the history of the song is enough, for the Welsh the tradition, NZ and the Islanders have their Hakka and so on. Those are brilliant and special to those countries.
Another might be that England, once graced by a visit from Jesus himself, has descended into a wasteland of industrialisation and greed which requires violent revolution to correct. Something for fans to ponder as they breath in the matchday fumes on the A316.
Sure, Blake might feel that England should be special, but the strong suggestion is that something has gone wrong…
I can't argue with this, I was looking back through rose tinted spectacles.
Although you could argue almost all Rugby nations have this problem.
All nations, really. I mean, what about 'Born in the USA'?
I mean all nations have gone to shit, not that the interpretation of their anthem is dualist. Unless you feel that America has been made great again?
what about ‘Born in the USA’?
Do the Americans who sing this understand the ironic meaning of it?
Quick rugby interlude to this musical discussion.
Let's say Scotland beat Japan and Ireland, Japan, and Scotland end up with the same number of points. My understanding is that it goes to the head to head results but in this case would that just be ignored given that all three teams will have beaten one of the others?
What's the next criteria after head to head results?
What’s the next criteria after head to head results?
Who has the best song, advantage scotchland
What’s the next criteria after head to head results?
I think it's points differential.
Edit. From the official website:
https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/tournament-rules
3. Rankings at the completion of the pool phase
At the completion of the pool phase, the Teams in a pool are ranked one through five based on their cumulative Match points, and identified respectively as winner, runner-up, third, fourth and fifth.If at the completion of the pool phase two or more Teams are level on Match points, then the following criteria shall be used in the following order until one of the Teams can be determined as the higher ranked:
1. The winner of the Match in which the two tied Teams have played each other shall be the higher ranked.
2. The Team which has the best difference between points scored for and points scored against in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked.
3. The Team which has the best difference between tries scored for and tries scored against in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked.
4. The Team which has scored most points in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked.
5. The Team which has scored most tries in all its pool Matches shall be the higher ranked.
6. Should the tie be unresolved at the conclusion of steps 1 through 5, the rankings as per the updated. Official World Rugby World Rankings on October 14, 2019 will determine the higher ranked Team.For clarification, in the case of a tie between three or more Teams at the end of the pool phase, once the highest ranked Team has been determined following the above criteria, to determine the next higher ranked Team the process would repeat, starting at criterion 1.
Qualification / elimination at the conclusion of the pool phase
The winner and runner-up in each pool qualify for the quarter-finals. Teams ranked third, fourth and fifth will be eliminated from the Tournament.
whats the meaning of the words in the Welsh anthem
Englanders are scum and we are going to batter them…
He says from Henley-on-Thames, one of the most quintessential English towns outside of Harrogate.
I think Scotland should be allowed to have a war dance
No thanks, I've seen Braveheart once and that was quite enough.
All Blacks 63 - 0 Canada.
Oh dear.
Never knew that, I ride past that school pretty often.
Having played with many of the guys who were in that group, it is a very big assumption that they knew it was a negro spiritual and made the connection with Oti. Sweet Chariot seems to have been a pretty common Rugby club song, because of the actions, we sang it at University way before this.
Benedictines are still there, but the school closed down years ago and is now a residential development.
He says from Henley-on-Thames, one of the most quintessential English towns outside of Harrogate.
?
Benedictines are still there, but the school closed down years ago and is now a residential development.
Again didnt know that either, I lay bleeding on the road hill near there once, no monks came to help me!!!! Or an ambulance for that matter, police dog van took me to A&E!!!
Let’s say Scotland beat Japan and Ireland, Japan, and Scotland end up with the same number of points. My understanding is that it goes to the head to head results but in this case would that just be ignored given that all three teams will have beaten one of the others?
Yeah if all three teams are tied on the same number of points then overall points difference decides the winner. BUT - once that winner has been decided the tie breaker process starts again to decide on the 2nd place team so the first criteria there is, again, the head-to-head result between the two.
England team to face Argentina: Daly; Watson, Tuilagi, Farrell, May; Ford, B Youngs; Marler, George, Sinckler; Itoje, Kruis; Curry, Underhill, B Vunipola.
Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, M Vunipola, Cole, Lawes, Ludlam, Heinz, Slade, Nowell
Starting to look nicely settled at last and Mako to bench, only weakness I can see is the bench backs dont look like they can add much pzazz if England are behind.
Another rugby non-follower question for you.
Do players have to wear the jersey of their position?
Ar fly halves always 10, full backs 15, number eights, er, 8?
Just suppose for superstition or whatever a player had made a jersey his own but circumstances eg: tactics, or maybe a winger had always worn say 13 and then later in career moved to full back can he continue in that jersey? And of course I don't mean subs, or tactical changes in the course of a match where a centre moves to fly half or whatever.
I mean, I can see because everyone traditionally wears their jersey of their position, there would be conflicts if a lock wanted to keep wearing 4 even though playing at #8 because the lock that comes in would probably also want 4, but in theory is it allowed?
No, players wear the shirt relevant to their starting position.
I can see is the bench backs dont look like they can add much pzazz if England are behind
Slade and Nowell aren’t bad but I can see your point. I suspect it’s because he needs both those to get some game time though, plus also he’ll push the starters to finish the whole 80 mins to prepare for the bigger matches (hopefully) about to be played.
Georgia were in the game until 60 minutes or so, but Fiji are tearing it up now. Look so dangerous in attack, give them an inch and...
Another rugby non-follower question for you.
Do players have to wear the jersey of their position?
Ar fly halves always 10, full backs 15, number eights, er, 8?
Dont think so but all switches are usually minor, some like SA have openside flanker in 6 not 7 and some outside centres like Guscott didnt like 13 so wore 12, that was a hangover from Bath his club not having a 13 shirt, they used to use letters as I recall.
Tipuric often packs down at 8 in scrums on their put but wears 7 still and packs down at 7 in defensive scrums.
Slade and Nowell aren’t bad but I can see your point.
Me too, Nowell seems to misfire in big games. Shame as he plays very well for Exeter. Its a weird job he does because he isn't really a wing. But he has been useful to them. I always think Exeter are going to win the Prem Final but Saracens are a cut above.
Slade is mercurial, he can be bloody amazing.
The missed try with Daly last weekend was all Dalys fault, he over ran his support.