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but he isnt a Lions test standard player or a world class player
To be fair, I haven't mentioned "world class" anywhere. He's had a fine career for a good Ireland team who have won a grand slam despite his shit tackling. My only argument is with those dismissing him as "pish". As for the Lions thing...well, he was a marked man, and true, he was shit when he played for them. I'm not sure they'd have won those games anyway, but that's all conjecture.
Wellies is slightly better, not by much.
Hook is an appalling fly-half, stupid comparison.
Wilko was brilliant, totally lost it, good to see him back.
Flood hasn't focussed on 10 and along with Youngs is a panicker who needs to learn to run a game.
O'Gara isn't my favourite player, the Lions was a nadir for him and he has actually worked on his defence since, although he will always struggle. My problem with him is that he has no break/pace and therefore struggles to commit defenders. Add in an elderly D'Arcy at 12 and you have a very pedestrian, predictable 10/12 axis.
You're all talking pish
D?nu? Dumbrav? is clearly going to be the top RWC number 10 this year and the revelation of the tournament.
You mark my words.
The words "Breakdown" and "Ireland" seem to spend a lot of time in the same sentence,why do [b]you[/b] need to constantly refer back to them? I will put a smiley on this 🙂 ,as it is intended as banter*. I also missed you downplaying Irelands chances,welcome back to the "6n makeweights"
Best 10's in UK
Jones
Hook
Wilkinson
Flood
Sexton
Parks
O'Gara
*Unlike anything I say about Bakkes Botha during the course of this thread when the WC starts.
O'Gara is better than Parks, Ceri Sweeney is better than parks.
Hook didnt look too appalling against England the other week, controlled the game very well I thought which is his big weakness. Kicks as well as O'Gara, tackles better, is better in all aspects of attacking play but does lack control at times although how much this is down to lacking a forward platform to exert control is open for debate.
😆 I was wondering when Sweeney would crop up, Nicky Robinson is way better than Parks.
Sexton is way out ahead of the rest of the Home Nations 10s. The rest of them all have a major weakness in terms of pace/breaking ability, tackling, or running a game. Hook has a weakness in that he doesn't play a lot of 10 because he doesn't boss the game. Sexton is a more complete player than the rest of them.
Sexton is a more complete player than the rest of them.
Jesus, I hope so. I don't think he's lived up to potential...yet.
Sexton looks good but has had the odd meltdown, he's not all that as yet.
Sexton is way out ahead of the rest of the Home Nations 10s
way ahead? Really? I'd take Hook and Jones over him currently.
Shandy - Member
Sexton is way out ahead of the rest of the Home Nations 10s.
No he isn't. Ireland consistently lose when Sexton is on the pitch. And that was my point really - as good as he is at 'club' level, he hasn't cut it at international level.
As far as ROG losing the Lions tour, that was my original opinion when I watched that game, but later on I noticed that he was playing with a pretty nasty bruise all down his face after being clattered. Pretty obviously he was concussed - which he didn't blame. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Lions would only have been able to draw the tour if they hadn't lost that 2nd test?
And Hook - he's not a great no10 is he? Doesn't control the game at any level, whether he's behind a dominant scrum or not. And he is very often when he plays for the Ospreys. He makes a couple of breaks a game and that makes him the wonderboy of the Welsh public. I'd compare him to Giteau, but not quite as good.
Steve Jones is crap, has been for a long time. For a while he was the only steady Welsh option, which was why he was selected. Every so often he seems to get it together though.
Wilkinson is a good player but nowhere near as good as the English press like to make out. The Sky commentators were gushing about a 20m kick he made a few weeks ago. From his 10m to the oppo 10m - all he did was kick away possession, but it was 'brilliant play'.
Parks? You must be joking. He's not even good enough to play for Cardiff.
Sexton is good and has a lot of potential but has to prove it yet
Duncan Weir -now he might just be the real deal. Only 20 IIRC but so much promise. Got a real calm head and a good all round game.
How much has Hook played 10 for the Ospreys?
Steven Jones has what about 100 caps including Lions tests and is crap is he? righto?
What did Hook do wrong against England?
As far as ROG losing the Lions tour, that was my original opinion when I watched that game, but later on I noticed that he was playing with a pretty nasty bruise all down his face after being clattered. Pretty obviously he was concussed - which he didn't blame. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Lions would only have been able to draw the tour if they hadn't lost that 2nd test?
he got that missing one of two tackles in the lead up to the SA equalising try the useless prick.
at 6.30ish shows his second miss
Two Heineken Cup winners medals is decent proof, but you're right he could do with International success.
Ireland are not losing because of Sexton. Kidney is out of his depth coaching anything more complicated than 10 man rugby, and we don't have the front five for that any more. Gaffney has produced nothing out of a backline that score tries for fun with Leinster. There are serious problems across the whole squad that Kidney will struggle to fix before the World Cup.
The TV coverage makes a lot of O'Gara coming on to "steady the ship" or Sexton being "dropped" for O'Gara. Kidney is trying to balance gametime between a talented all-rounder and a limited player who has delivered him a lot of silverware in the past. Kidney's problem is 10-man rugby is never going to work for us and he has spent the last year or two flip-flopping between two different styles of play and selection policies. A considerable amount of Sexton's game time in green is outside O'Leary, who Kidney loves very deeply. He has finally been forced to admit that O'Leary isn't even fit for the 30 man squad, which says a lot for the service Sexton has been getting outside him.
[i]he got that missing one of two tackles in the lead up to the SA equalising try the useless prick.[/i]
Brilliant 😆
Annnnnyway, we're doing a picks competition here at work, organised by my fine kiwi friend.
Could we/should we get something going on STW?
Like this:
+5 points for correctly selecting winning team
+10 points for correctly selecting winning margin
+25 points for correctly selecting a draw
+10 points for playing the Joker against correctly selected winning/drawn team.
(NZ) Joker| 15+ | 7-14 | 1-6 |Draw| 1-6 | 7-14 | 15+ (TONGA)
Shandy, it's interesting that you call it 10 man rugby because that's not how I think of Ireland or Munster. But of course that is how O'Gara plays - position, position, position, until they can unleash the backs.
Wales could learn something from that approach, instead of dicking about with backline moves inside their half - which is something that Hook seems to enjoy. I suppose it helps when your second rows can compete for oppo ball. We've got a 6ft9" player who barely gets his own ball..
Wales could learn something from that approach, instead of dicking about with backline moves inside their half
Since the arrival of Gatland Wales have had an extremely conservative approach, I dont really understand the stuff you come out with. Although as you say kicking for touch isnt a very good option when your lineout is shit, but I'm not sure Girafferis is the problem (or the answer for that matter Davies and Jones are a very good pairing).
We used to play position and then move the ball if it was on, now we are trying everything from the first whistle and the error count has gone through the roof. Kidney just took a team that O'Sullivan built, which had done very well, and made them believe they could win a Slam. They got a few bounces of the ball along the way but most importantly they were incredibly hard to beat because they gave the opposition very little to work with. Kidney's lack of technical ability has slowly dragged them down.
so the irsih problem is deeper than my own view that they have just got old?
[i]he got that missing one of two tackles in the lead up to the SA equalising try the useless prick.[/i]
In each of the SA tries there are 3 or 4 Lions players who miss tackles. Why would you deliberately pick on ROG and not, for instance, the players who let the first two tries in?
Anwyay, the reason he 'lost' the series for the Lions was the ridiculous late tackle at the end.
[i] Kidney's lack of technical ability has slowly dragged them down.
[/i]
I get the same feeling with Gatland. Hopfully he will have bought some new coaching manuals from Waterstones ready for RWC.
Can you explain to me what Gatlands lacking of technical ability is? Seems to me he has produced a team with a simple gameplan designed to enable us to beat Samoa and Fiji and progress to the quarter final. The gameplan seems to have meant they we are always within a shout of being able to beat most teams and enable our flair players to role the dice in the last 20 as and when needed. Wales seem to me to be pretty well set going into the World Cup. What more could Gatland do with the players available?
no one missed a tackle for Peitersons try, nor Habana's its just good play by SA. O'Gara is in the right place, is set and doesnt even slow him down.
a_a, why so defensive about everything?
My post about Gats was mainly tongue in cheek, but I think Wales will be very lucky to progress far in RWC with him as coach. His win ratio is not very impressive, his teams very often look poorly prepared. Beating a poor English side doesn't make us world beaters.
What you describe as good play in the SA vid, I could describe as poor defence. Plenty of players were in position to tackle. They didn't. Call it a missed tackle or not, it's the same result, two SA tries. Saying that ROG is responsible for the Lions losing the series is, quite honestly, immature.
And as for this:
anagallis_arvensis - MemberWales could learn something from that approach, instead of dicking about with backline moves inside their half
Since the arrival of Gatland Wales have had an extremely conservative approach, I dont really understand the stuff you come out with.
You mean you haven't noticed the amount of ball that Wales gave away in the last few games in stupid positions on the pitch? Little bits of back play inside their own half, chip kicks over the top, running the ball from areas that they really aren't going to profit from? Almost always handing ball back to the opposition.
Perhaps you should try watching an actual game, not a Youtube compilation? 😉
(And really - that smiley means I'm messing!)
the reason I'm so defensive is you are just making things up to suit your agenda. Name the Lions players you missed the tackles in the lead up to the Habana and Pieterson tries then name the players missing the tackles in the run up to the last try by the bloke who's name I cant spell.
The biggest barrier to Wales chances in the world cup is lack of good enough players, rather than the coaches.
the reason I'm so defensive is you are just making things up to suit your agenda.
No he's not.
Name the Lions players you missed the tackles in the lead up to the Habana and Pieterson tries then name the players missing the tackles in the run up to the last try by the bloke who's name I cant spell.
Jeez...
so?
Actually, I'll leave this between you and IJ 😛
so the irsih problem is deeper than my own view that they have just got old?
The thing is, the first choice side isn't actually that old, even if some of them have been around a long time. The centres aren't getting any younger, O'Driscoll can compensate but D'Arcy has slowed down a lot. Add in O'Gara at 10 and its hard to create much in the backs.
I'm watching Glasgow Ulster on BBC alba
I'm watching Glasgow Ulster on BBC alba
poor sod 😉
second half was a waste of 40mins
Meh. Scrappy match but Tuohy and Cave look to be coming back well.
Watching Ian Evans tonight, it seems like a long time since he was the senior partner to AW Jones, about the same age but has had some really shocking injuries. Would be great if he could up his game and displace Girafferis as the back up 4 for Wales.
anagallis_arvensis - Membersecond half was a waste of 40mins
Indeed
Nice win for the good folk of Ospreylia!
Had to try and explain rugby to Germans last night. Over too much apfelwien (spl?). It did not go well.....
[i]anagallis_arvensis - Member
second half was a waste of 40mins
[/i]
We agree on something anyway!!
I almost went to the game - it would have cost at least £20 to watch a decent first half and then that dismal display in the second. And the people in charge wonder why the Ospreys are haemorrhaging (sp?) spectators? I live close enough to the stadium to have supporters parking nearby and walking down, but didn't see a single Ospreys shirt walk past last night despite the fact that Leinster should be a big draw. Of course it can't help when the local paper doesn't even mention the game until deep into the sports pages.
deadlydarcy, I hope you caught the Munster v Dragons game last night. A perfect example of what I've been complaining about [i]re[/i] Irish teams at the breakdown.
Two yellow cards for Munster for killing the ball ie wriggling over the Dragons ball to accidentally end up on the wrong side. (A third yellow for punching I think. I couldn't quite hear the ref because of my mental children!)
A question for duckman (and anybody else I guess!):
Munster 2nd row tackles Dragons wing. Both fall to the floor but the Munsterman jumps to his feet straight away without releasing the Dragon. He then goes onto the Dragon's side of the tackle and starts towing the Dragon down the pitch while the prone player is trying unsuccessfully to play the ball. The Munster fowards pile over the target, which of course is going in the correct direction for them, ref gives a scrum to Munster. I would assume a penalty to Dragons for Munsterman not releasing the player, or 'playing' the tackled player, ie moving him and not allowing him to place ball?
Shocking stuff from munster. I'm disgusted with a performance like that. Winning I like, but winning by cheating, getting three yellow cards...I'm speechless. Clearly something needs to be done about this.
I would assume a penalty to Dragons for Munsterman not releasing the player, or 'playing' the tackled player, ie moving him and not allowing him to place ball?
If as you say the tackle was finished the tackler should release completely before going back in. Some SH teams were standing up and clapping after the tackle for a time.
Bumping on...
Lewis Moody ruled out of England's opener.
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14784677.stm ]BBC Story[/url]
Should completley release the tackled player,and get to feet. Once on feet if ruck not formed he can pick up the ball. If the tackled player tries to stop him;penalty. I always call "ruck no hands" once I have deemed it to have been formed.At this point the initial tackler/3rd man in is supposed to release the ball (aye right!)
Bring it on!!
Might have to delay our ride plans on Sunday for the Wales game...! 🙂 Especially as I shall be in the Land of My Fathers...! 😉
im in bits already and wales aint playing till sunday morning...
...my fathers...
😆
Well, Darcy, as my father was born and raised in Wales, as was his father and his father, etc, yeah, i'd call it that 🙂
How's the craic in Brizzle? 🙂
I know flashy, that's what I was laughing at. 😉
Only teasing.
Craic's eighty nine in Brizzle but it was ninety in the Isle of Man.
I loves rugby, I does! You can only get this quality of banter with rugby! 🙂
jesus christ just watched the opening game, **** me what shit comentators, the current match on the scrum v red button thing has better comentary and they arent even watching the game. Gommersal was a shit scrum half and is a even worse comentator and I had no ****ing idea who the other bloke was but he was about as entusiastic as a wet fish.
at least Sonny Bill took his shirt off, makes up for a lack of gavin 😆
I dunno, people moan if commentators are too enthusiastic, too quiet, too loud, too opinioated, not opinionated enough...blah blah... I thought they were ok, just let me concentrate on the game without really noticing them.
That sonny-bill is hot though eh?
I was installed on the sofa with wife plus friend. Palpably hotter in the room when his top came off.
Blah blah commentators blah. Turn the ****ing sound down then princess.
Jesus, be grateful the tournaments not on sky. Moaning ****.
@duckman, @IdleJon, @a_a...just a question about a part of the breakdown which confusses me 😳
When there's a ruck, sometimes you see a player from the defending side standing up and dragging the jerseys of one or two players that are at the top of the "pile-up". There then follows a bit of bitch-slapping, sometimes the defending team's player will then lob his foot into the ruck, or the two lads with their jersey being pulled will go back down again. There's usually a bit of gesticulating at the referee by the defending team (eg. Paul O'Connell 😛 ).
What's going on here?
Sonny Bill took his shirt off ? I might bother watching the 2nd half of the ABs game now, sounds worthwhile use of time.
deadlydarcy - Member
@duckman, @IdleJon, @a_a...just a question about a part of the breakdown which confusses meWhen there's a ruck, sometimes you see a player from the defending side standing up and dragging the jerseys of one or two players that are at the top of the "pile-up". There then follows a bit of bitch-slapping, sometimes the defending team's player will then lob his foot into the ruck, or the two lads with their jersey being pulled will go back down again. There's usually a bit of gesticulating at the referee by the defending team (eg. Paul O'Connell ).
What's going on here?
Probably means you aren't watching the right sport. Take up tenniswatchery, it's simpler! 😆 Oh, and red card against Ireland even if they aren't playing.
Bugger off ya bollix. It was a serious question!! *kiss*
Damn the Japenese were entertaining 😆
¡Vamos chicos!!!
wrecker - Member
Blah blah commentators blah. Turn the * sound down then princess.
Jesus, be grateful the tournaments not on sky. Moaning *.
I caught soem of the Japan - France game before work this morning and was soooo relieved when the commentators informed me of the English involvement (the touch judge). I was concerned that I hadn't heard any mention of England for at least 20 minutes.
But honestly, the Welsh commentary on S4C is far better and I don't even speak Welsh.
I may need to be IdleJuan for the rest of the day. And I'm hoping that work isn't busy for the next 2 hours....
Defending team spoiling, dd. Dunno why people do it because ref is never going to give a penalty against the guy with his jumper over his head,and you are just making your own side of the ruck a mess.It's like the guys who take a huge step over a body into the ruck when it is formed,making themselves a target and they will be the last man out.Rush of blood to head maybe?
wrecker - Member
Blah blah commentators blah. Turn the * sound down then princess.
Jesus, be grateful the tournaments not on sky. Moaning *.
Am I allowed to say **** of ****?
Cheers duckman. Just wondering. 🙂
Jesus, this is poor kicking from Sexton. 2 from 6!!
deadlydarcy - MemberJesus, this is poor kicking from Sexton. 2 from 6!!
Is it the new ball?
Another in the long list of great Irish RWC performances 😕
Don't think any of us have bragging rights just now(sorry A-A,jumping the gun). Personally I could do with watching a decent free flowing game as I stood on a pitch yesterday while at least 20 players went at it hammer and tongs for 5 mins resulting in both police and ambulance visiting a leafy Edinburgh suburb, all in front of my refs coach.
arse
What a game. Cheer up A-A,EASILY best of the home nations openers.
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14870264.stm ]http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14870264.stm[/url]
Lawes no cited and Hask rowing back on accusations of gouging, a conicidence?
Pissed off about Wales, so near and never cross the finish line in recent years.
Unlucky Wales. Fantastic game to watch.
Ireland weren't [i]that[/i] bad FFS. It was a 22-3 game until a wild pass in an effort to go for a bonus point went astray. The only (major) worry for me was how dire Sexton was. They were certainly a lot better than any of the warm-up games. And a lot better than anything in 2007.
The USA are a pretty poor side though so it doesn't bode well for Ireland unless they improve.
I thought Wales were great - if only they'd had Stephen Jones they'd surely have won. James Hook looks about as solid at full back as Iain Balshaw......
A "poor" side coached by the guy who knows the green machine better than anyone else outside the Irish camp. Anyway, job done. No major injuries. Mr Can't-Tackle is still the more dependable fly-half. Basically, we're ****ed anyway. 🙂
Oh and a quick vote for discussing the games here on this thread as they happen. Works perfectly well for the 6N when it's on.
- if only they'd had Stephen Jones they'd surely have won. James Hook looks about as solid at full back as Iain Balshaw......
I cant help but think that if Wales had been able to bring on the two injured Jones' with 15 to go things could have been different. And whilst Hook aint great at 15 he's not that bad, shame Byrne has been so rubbish recently.
Intrested pice in the observer today by Dean Ryan on Englands woes, breakdown pens given away due to the extra pressure put on all by playing the Hask at 7 meant England were pinged off the park.
Good piece in the Times today by Barnes as to why Wales were right to have picked Hook at fullback in this game.