[Closed] Rugby world cup

Priorities, namaste, priorities.

I try to have a broader view (luckily having worked in Cardiff for a number of years

but the fans demonstrate humility IMO

On the other hand, I pray for the scots to lose every single game they play

Bit confused aren't you?

Nice selective quoting there.

The funniest thing about the sniping at the English is that the two most guilty of it are plastics anyway. 🙂

every nations fans laughs when an opposite player gets nailed then. Not unique to England supporters after all. Your experience with man boobs summed up absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Oh but it does you see. I've been with Saffers and Kiwi's and even a frenchmen and have seen Shane get smashed by them all. They kind of chuckle but its not a big deal for them. The english fans seem to delight in it. I reckon its because they dont really understand Shane or what players like him represent and its why you have Trundle and Hopless in the centre.

The english fans seem to delight in it.

you as a Welshman having bigged Shane up in the first place

Point is though smashing shane around in the tackle is nothing special, now had Wilkinson been able to tackle him when he scored the try rather than be left grasping thin air, that would have deserved a cheer.

No chance at all of winning the 2011 WC paying 2003 rugby

yes but we said that in 2007 and they got to the final and I reckon they are a better team now, I mean Balshaw isnt in the squad so something must have improved.

The english fans seem to delight in it.

Based on your experience of one fan?

the clue is in my use of the plural

Some fat bloke in an england top was laughing his man boobs off at this

wrecker - Member
You didn't laugh when Tait got bagged by Henson then?

I did because the national press had been telling us all week that Tait was the next superboy of English rugby.....

The english fans seem to delight in it.

plural isnt it or am I missing something?

I didnt laugh I cheered myself hoarse but didnt laugh.

I didnt laugh I cheered myself hoarse but didnt laugh.

Given that it was Tanson, I'd hazard you did something else to yourself. 🙂

Not in the pub!

wrecker - Member
Nice selective quoting there.

Really? all posts you have made

At first you get into A-A. for being anti-english and bigoted THEN you make a case for England fans being realistic and humble, then you mention on this thread that you "pray for the Scots to lose every game." and indeed suggest on a another thread we have no place at the WC. Feel free to quote your posts completely to show that your posts are rounded and not filled with the sort of crap you accused A-A about.

It's like this; us rugby boys get into a thread started by A-A on the 6N every year,WC this year; there is a significant amount of banter, we slag other nations players, but we don't really get the bile that is sadly increasing on this site last couple of years. So PLEASE,if you can not focus on the rugby, and need to keep bringing your obvious dislike of the Scots(us in my case)then why not stay away from it? I mean really, our ambition consists of scraping past Argentina so we can be thrashed by the SH,why do you feel the need to divert this thread away from such low ambitions?

I specifically keep my dislike of the Scots off this thread. 🙂

Duckman - he is probably still smarting from 1990 🙂 Its jealousy

Duckman, well put! Let's leave such silliness to the wendyballers!

🙂

Oh FFS, a bit of debate is allowed you know. And, speaking as one of the fans outside the England-Scotland-Wales mènage, the content of this thread does come across as fairly anti-England at times. Whether the contributors intend that, I don't know. But it does.

Fiveundred! 😀

Come on the Reds!

No?

Oh....

Come on the Reds!

I agree! 🙂

I have a feeling that if it was directed at wales dummies and teddy bears would be littering the valleys

We slag off English rugby for specific reasons that are evident from watching the matches; the English tend to slag off Wales and the Welsh for sport.

English rugby is far more disliked that other aspects of englishness simply because of the breathtaking arrogance

Quite right. More than happy to support English football with a passion and any other English sportspeople.. just not the rugby team 🙂

TandemJeremy - Member

he is probably still smarting from 1990 Its jealousy

I don't know if he still is but I am 😈

English rugby has NEVER recovered from that in terms of the playing style we could have developed.

molgrips - Member
More than happy to support English football with a passion and any other English sportspeople.. just not the rugby team

That's pretty poor. The football team are a bunch of overpaid namby-pamby spineless underachievers who never win anything.

At least the rugby boys have fronted up and won a few things and made it to the last two RWC Finals.

Since when do you support a team based on results? THAT is poor in my book!

namastebuzz

I don't know if he still is but I am

🙂

took Brian Moore years

What happened in 1990? 😕

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/sportscotland/asportingnation/article/0062/page02.shtml

Oh right...that? And you're still ****ing banging on about it 21 years later? Jesus, what IS wrong with you? 😕

DD;I would advise you to start doing the same based on the the 60 year cycle between Irish slams That game needs to be set in context. It was also mentioned above by namastebuzz. I was in London working at the time,and the game was a focal point for a lot of ill feeling between a lot of people who had no interest or idea about the game.
It had become less of a rugby match and more of a procession as far as the press was concerned.There was a really nasty flavour to it,set at the time when the Tories didn't have an MP in Scotland,the poll tax coming in up here early,and Carling and Gusset were coming out with their "confident" soundbites. It was the worst atmosphere I have ever seen at a rugby match and the only time I have seen crowd trouble.
As for the game, it was rubbish. I knew Scotland were going to win after about 5mins when Fin Calder tapped a penalty and smashed through the English pack who just didn't want to know. Even then it was tight, if Carling had been strong and pointed towards the posts instead of letting his pack try and grind over, then who knows? For me,the whole build up to it and the aftermath spoiled the winning of a grand Slam. England got their revenge six months later in the WC semi, on a really similar day actually,but the damage was done to that team.
I was at the 1990 final cheering on Oz, I was in the rugby club in 2003 cheering on England.That was based entirely on who the players were and how they played the game,and not because of their country of birth.

I would advise you to start doing the same

Yeah, I go on about the green machine's slam constantly. Can't shut up about it. 🙄

Yeah, I go on about the green machine's slam constantly. Can't shut up about it.

Well you should, with a 55 year wait to go, you are unlikely to see another.

Well you should, with a 55 year wait to go, you are unlikely to see another.

Ah, right, I see what you mean now. I misunderstood you - you meant I [i]should[/i] bang on about it a bit more. So you were, in effect, just talking bollocks then. As we were...

Not living here at the time, and to be honest, no great fan of how any of the home nations were playing rugby at the time, the 5N didn't used to absorb me as much as it has in the last decade and a half or so. I was probably a bit young and too interested in GAA/Football to remember the Triple Crown (when it meant something) winning sides...Michael Kiernan, Ciaran Fitzgerald, Tony Ward etc. I do remember, however, the fervent anti-english sentiments that existed in Ireland when England were playing [i]anything[/i] and that our only big game most years was when we played (and were usually beaten by) England.

I now realise how silly and immature it was - and it annoys the shit out of me when I go back occasionally and still see it now (albeit to a much lesser degree). I love the banter and the spats on this thread - but my point stands - it still feels very anti-English when I read through it - possibly because of the "Welsh" content of posters - and of course, there are the two Englishmen that have turned coats to other nations 😉

molgrips - Member

Since when do you support a team based on results? THAT is poor in my book!

I don't. I support a team based on their character, application, attitude and effort.

The England football team played well at the 1990 and 1998 World Cups and were unlucky both times. At the rest of the Euros/WCs in recent times they've been pathetic (when they've actually qualified). The displays in 2010 when they scraped past the footballing giants of USA/Algeria/Slovenia then got thrashed by a poor German side were devoid of any of the above qualities.

Besides, they have had quality role models such as Wayne Rooney, John Terry, Ashley Cole, Lee Bowyer.....

The rugby team have displayed such qualities and achieved results.

I can't remember the last time I was proud of the performance of the English football team.

Just out of interest, how has the rise of the likes of Munster affected the shinty? I always got the idea that rugby was the third sport.

there are the two Englishmen that have turned coats to other nations

TJ and...? 😉

Always been more than open about only being half Welsh, but it's the rugby half! 🙂

Now, back on to the rugby and away from bickering - Are we all giong to be getting up early to watch the vital games like Samoa v Namibia at 0330 or Canada v Japan at 0500? 😉

Just out of interest, how has the rise of the likes of Munster affected the shinty?

Well, I'd say in Limerick city (where Thomond Park is), rugby is possibly now the number one sport. Football (Gaelic) was never that big in Limerick - it's more of a hurling county. It hasn't won an all-Ireland championship since 1973! They've come very close a few times in intervening years - and got to the quarters this year. Hurling is probably bigger out in the county as opposed to the city. So, has the rise of Munster affected hurling? Yes, probably. Has that been a good thing for Limerick people as they finally get to cheer a team that actually wins things - Yes definitely 😀

I've been gone nearly twenty years - and I'm not much of an exile tbh - I don't go and watch GAA in whatever dingy Oirish pub is showing it in Bristol. The rise of Munster has been the only thing that gives me any pride in Limerick - a fairly troubled city - and a shit town to grow up in when I was a kid. I happened to do a few days on a site here in Bristol that was full of Irish lads - it was fun till the "Limerick" comments started wearing me a bit thin.

Gaelic football and hurling are still the number one sports though. Dublin (Leinsters home) are in the All-Ireland football semi-this weekend (against Donegal) and were only narrowly beaten in the hurling semi-final by Tipperary (having knocked Limerick out in the quarters). Dublin and Cork are the sides everyone likes to see lose 🙂

EDIT: Football (association) is still very popular - but only as an armchair support of the premiership. League football in Ireland would probably be around the standard of League 1 or League 2. Strangley, it used to attract crowds of tens of thousands back in the 50s and 60s. But GAA turned the country against Rugby and Footie for a while with [i]The Ban[/i].

From Wiki:

The GAA has had some notable rules in the past which have since been abolished.
Rule 21, instituted in 1897 when it was suspected that Royal Irish Constabulary spies were trying to infiltrate the organization, prohibited members of the British forces from membership of the GAA, and prevented GAA members from attending social events with such people.[87] Support for the ban remained throughout The Troubles, particularly in Northern Ireland where GAA members were often targeted for harassment and abuse by the RUC and British Army.[88] Nonetheless, at a special congress convened in November 2001 the GAA voted by an overwhelming majority to change the rule and allow members of British security forces to play hurling and football.[89][90]

Rule 27, sometimes referred to as The Ban, banned GAA members from taking part in or watching non Gaelic games. Punishment for violating this rule was expulsion for the organisation and it remained in place from 1901 until 1971. During that time people such as Douglas Hyde, GAA patron and then President of Ireland, was expelled for attending a soccer international.[91] In order to circumvent the ban members such as Moss Keane would commonly adopt a false name.[92] The last person to be suspended from the GAA for violating Rule 27 was Liam Madden, an architect and member of Longford GAA in 1969 [93]

Always been more than open about only being half Welsh, but it's the rugby half!

And even more open in your hypocrisy of taking the mick out of TJ for it.

I have, in a glaring example of poor planning, organised a trip for 39 pupils to Berlin and Krakow from the 23rd till the 1st. So hard drive heaven for me, but yeah, lots of poor games on at silly times.

Only as (as far as I know) TJ isn't at all Scotchish, Darcy. But your point stands! 🙂

So, after a post like this (not by you);

I am happy to admit that when it comes to rugby I loathe and detest the english.

your obvious dislike of the Scots

@ duckman...there's an edit to my last post on previous page. I know you'll be dying the read it 😉

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Now, back on to the rugby and away from bickering - Are we all giong to be getting up early to watch the vital games like Samoa v Namibia at 0330 or Canada v Japan at 0500?

No but I'll be setting my HDD box to record anything involving Samoa if they tackle like this:

I don't. I support a team based on their character, application, attitude and effort.

Namastebuzz, you raise a very good point there. Supporting England has not been easy in recent years.

But then raise questions about the nature of sporting support, doesn't it? I'm happy to support any team based on the qualities you mention, and to be honest I've even warmed to the English Rugby team as they've a) had a few ignominious thrashings on the field and b) have tried at least to play a bit more interestingly. Plus Johnno talks quite openly and honestly at match interviews so that helps too.

Right you are DD, People obviously only have x amount of money to spend and I was wondering if the huge numbers that squeeze into Thomond(sp) had knocked more established sports.

People obviously only have x amount of money to spend

Two of the last things Irish people will abandon are beer and watching sport 🙂

I'd say Munster's legendary travelling support has dwindled a bit in the last few years. I remember going to see them play in Bath and it was all youngsters - on the lash for the weekend. These days, it's gone back to an older crowd ie. the ones who have their mortgages paid off years ago.

Darcy, thanks for that post re Irish sport. Most interesting, and I too had been wondering about the influence/otherwise of rugby over there!

Good points Molgrips.

There are a lot of factors that go into why you'd support team A but not team B. They're all intertwined and woven into the fabric of whichever team it happens to be and are malleable over the years as the team evolves.

Personally, however, my antipathy towards the Scottish rugby team is based solely on 1990 when they, along with a NZ ref, cheated us out of our rightful place in history and destroyed (forever) our embracing of total rugby.

Not that I'm bitter 😉

@ CFH

My dad was a victim of [i]The Ban[/i]. He played Gaelic Football and Rugby for Roscrea (in Co. Tipperary). Once the GAA found out, he got the boot out of the club.

Like all venerable Irish institutions, the good work is often tainted with a lot of shite.

Personally, however, my antipathy towards the Scottish rugby team is based solely on 1990 when they, along with a NZ ref, cheated us out of our rightful place in history

You can't argue that's any more reasonable than my views of English Rugby 🙂

Personally, however, my antipathy towards the Scottish rugby team is based solely on 1990 when they, along with a NZ ref, cheated us out of our rightful place in history

Pesky colonials eh? 🙄

Talking of cheating, did anyone see the SA/NZ game at the weekend when the ref went to the TMO on Jimmy Cowan's "try"?

The ref asked him to rule on whether a try had been scored. The TMO told him the ball had been grounded OK but then he asked: "Do you need any other information before the goal line?"

THe ref said yes and the TMO points out there was a forward pass. Try disallowed.

The TMO is not allowed to rule on stuff like that before the goal line, only on whether the ball was grounded properly with the player being within the pitch. But he did - and he was SOUTH AFRICAN!!!

I don't really understand how people can claim to change allegiance. I have supported Scotland rugby since I went to the games at murrayfield in the 70s. Its all about what you feel in your heart.

It would have been a lot less disappointing to have been an England supporter but that's not what is in my heart.

Buzz - sounds like the TMO simply supplied information and the ref ruled. Isn't that how it's meant to work.

Isn't that how it's meant to work.

I, like namastebuzz, thought the TMO could only rule on stuff after the try line...could be wrong though. 😕

*runs off to google*

EDIT: from a random BBC article: [i]Rugby's rules state the TMO can only adjudicate on matters in the 'in-goal area' and not consider any potential infringements in the build-up to a try.[/i]

I thought the ref was allowed to consult the TMO if he suspected something? Dunno.. fairly sure they can alert the ref to foul play tho.

Dunno.. fairly sure they can alert the ref to foul play tho.

Nope, I think that's down to the Touch Judges...when adjudicating in the Millennium Stadium, they often don't have a clue what they're doing though 😀

Bottom line is it was a forward pass, no-one is disputing that. The correct call was made. The letter of the law means he shouldn't have ruled it out, but the spirit of the law is upheld...

IMO the problem is with the wording of the law and the initiative shown by the TMO and Ref is a good thing. The law should be reviewed.

Oh.. I think I am getting confused between TMO and touch judges. I think you and buzz are correct then 🙂

DD are you coming to Cwmcarn this afternoon?

IMO the problem is with the wording of the law and the initiative shown by the TMO and Ref is a good thing. The law should be reviewed.

I don't entirely disagree but at what point do you stop the TMO advising the ref - ie. there could have been a forward pass a phase before the try scoring move...etc, etc. I think rugby refs live by the "whistle for what you see, not for what you didn't see or might have seen" - for this reason I think the try-line is a good point at which to set the limit.

I think we need a separate TV official to ref Ireland at the breakdown though 😉

*puts on flameproof suit and awaits IdlingJonny and ManDuck* 🙂

DD are you coming to Cwmcarn this afternoon?

No Molly, I would have if it was a morning run, but I have BMF in the park at 6.30 which I'm trying to stick to rigidly. I can possibly make it over next week one day if you're available...I know you're busy with baby stuff at the moment, but is there a day that would suit you?

We, in a glorious example of poor planning, are expecting our first child during the WC, specifically the day of the crunch match between South Africa and Namibia.

Far worse still, could miss the Glaws V Bath match few days later 😀

Tmo is only supposed to rule on the grounding/infringements. Strictly speaking, Ref on sat overstepped the mark, but hey-ho.

D-D, the green stranglers aren't getting anywhere, can't see any need to penalise them further*

* I may change this viewpoint based on this weekends result.

I think we need a separate TV official to ref Ireland at the breakdown though

TJ

I have supported Scotland rugby

Only as (as far as I know) TJ isn't at all Scotchish

I am a brit of English descent and Scotland is my home. That do ya?

I would and could never claim to be a scot. However I have lived so long up here and my formative years were in scotland that it is my home. Its all about what you feel in your heart. crossing the border going north feels like going home

Scotophile 😈

Most people who once lived in the borders have a bit of Scottish in them...Douglas to be exact 😈

deadlydarcy - Member

I think we need a separate TV official to ref Ireland at the breakdown though

*puts on flameproof suit and awaits IdlingJonny and ManDuck*

Nah, Ireland have been so boringly poor lately I thought I was watching England! 😉

Going back to one of your earlier posts, when I lived in London I spent a very pleasant (drunken) afternoon with my Irish housemates watching the Gaelic Football Final in a pub somewhere. I sort of understood the rules until a certain pint of Guinness.

duckman - Member
Most people who once lived in the borders have a bit of Scottish in them...Douglas to be exact

I've been in Borders a few times, does that make me Scottish?

Actually, having no apparent Scottish blood at all probably explains my indifference to Scottish rugby. Loads of Irish ancestors (mainly Fitzgeralds and Dineens) perhaps explains why I like winding DD up?

Nah, Ireland have been so boringly poor lately

Depressingly IJ, you're not far from wrong I'm afraid. A pity really...if they could reproduce the form they displayed against England at the end of the 6N...they were so good that day. All a case of lowering expectations (I wish...I don't really think this is true).

I sort of understood the rules

As a comedian once put it...a sort of cross between Rugby and the IRA 🙂

Dineens

Oh you poor thing...that explains everything 😆

deadlydarcy - Member

Dineens

Oh you poor thing...that explains everything

Tell me more - I know very little about the Irish side other than names. (Fitzgerald ancestry seems to indicate descent from the Normans, though, so I must do a bit more pillaging.)

Tell me more

Nah, only kidding. Dineen...I didn't really know too many growing up...not an unusual name, not a common one either though. Nah, only kidding. Fitzgerald is a good name though - and as you say, Norman...though many names are. Mine could well be Norman...as there would have been times when it may have been advantageous to spell it with or without an apostrophe. I'm sticking with "without" as that's how Jane Austen's Mr Darcy spelled his.

I tend to associate Fitzgerald with the southwest of Ireland - Kerry chiefly. Their main GAA park is Fitzgerald stadium in Killarney:

[img] http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPD-O2NfhbxQrSVHWCfjgKm40vZy-fzTgoMB1PZXUjd97-uMSQ [/img]

Interestingly, the Gaelic for Fitzgerald is Mac Gearailt (phonetically Mock Gyarilt) - showing that Fitz also means "of" or "from" or "son of" ("mac" meaning "son").

No idea where they hail from at all?

No idea where they hail from at all?

Half a yard offside? 😉

Half a yard offside?

Only if the ref sees it

😆

TJ

would and could never claim to be a scot.

deadlydarcy - Member

I tend to associate Fitzgerald with the southwest of Ireland - Kerry chiefly. Their main GAA park is Fitzgerald stadium in Killarney:

Oh good, we own a stadium! 🙂

No idea where they hail from at all?

No idea at all. There were a lot of Irish workers around here at the end of the 19th century on into the early 20th. In my family they date back to my great grandparents on both sides, so perhaps born 1900-1910.

DARCL;you are on sticky ground mentioning imports playing for an adopted country,at one point they would have to play the SAffers national anthem twice when they were playing England.Even your coach played for NZ schools!