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I'm all for the Haka, I just don't like it when the IRB starts getting all precious about what you can and can't do in response.
Incidentally, didn't the French break the rules about responding to the haka on Sunday?
Oh well, see you all in what, three months?
[url= http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/5840253/Police-pepper-spray-Utah-haka ]Police break up haka with pepper spray[/url].
cfh, a response I bet you'd like to see more of.
Well done the AB's. Tournament's best team won, but came awfully close to choking again imo, but I don't think many will worry about that for a while .
Weepu outstanding in the field, but at the same time, we were a kick away from losing for most of the match- he'll have real mixed feelings about the last two games.
McCaw's commitment, and to be fair, at times overcommitment, made him my player of the tournament though, but again, I don't expect many to agree.
Thats was the longest 80 mins of my life !! But we won in the end, France gave it all and bought their A++ team this time, well done France.
Finally got the champagne open, looked at my phone to see the news about Simoncelli so that was a bitter sweet celebration drink.
glitchybumpythingy
[b] Oh and Zokes, explain to me how that vid doesnt have a double red for Wales,
[/b]
they did not lift him as high and did not drop him on his head. so thats two reasons why no red card
That's why... And for TJ and I to be agreeing, that by definition is a broad range of opinions!
+1 for Kaino, a man mountain and the best #6 in the world.
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bumpy glithchy thingy
Bump
When I suggested Weepu as man of the tournament - he may not have been the best player but he rose to the challenge presented to him well and he cannot have been expecting to be in that situation
And there is something cute about Piri Weepu. Don't forget he spend the week before the AB v Oz game at his grandfather's tangi (funeral) so not surprised the head went.
they did not lift him as high and did not drop him on his head. so thats two reasons why no red cardAA get over it - Warburtons card was harsh but merited.
I reckon they lifted him just as high, he's a big bloke Radike, he landed on his back/neck which according to the rules/guidlines is the same thing. At the very least its a penalty but the ref shit out because he knew if he had pinged it he would have had to red card them.
and I think if you look back I agreed with you from the start that the red card was merited and still do but the ref need to get a grip and work out what they should all do as its becoming a farce.
Poor old Donald he looks awkward enough without having to wear a crop top and I think Piri, although a great story coming back from his injuries to do what he did in combination with a visit to the family Urupa (see I can throw in some Maori too) wasnt that great a 9.
Honestly now Zokes do you really think they are so different as to mean one is play on the other is a straight red and a 3 week ban?
As for Warbaton lifting him higher, I'm not sure remember AWJ is considerably taller than Warburton. True Warburton rotates him further, but if the difference between those two outcomes is viewed so differently from a refs perspective its going to be hard for the players as I'm not sure Bevington and AW Jones or Warburton had much control over the outcome once past the initial hits.
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ITV's Team of the tournament:
1. Jean-Baptiste Poux (France)
2. Keven Mealamu (New Zealand)
3. Adam Jones (Wales)
4. Brad Thorn (New Zealand)
5. Lionel Nallet (France)
6. Jerome Kaino (New Zealand)
7. Sam Warburton (Wales)
8. Imanol Harinorduquy (France)
9. Mike Phillips (Wales)
10. Rhys Priestland (Wales)
11. James O'Connor (Australia)
12. Ma'a Nonu (New Zealand)
13. Jamie Roberts (Wales)
14. Vincent Clerc (France)
15. Israel Dagg (New Zealand)
Hard to argue with most of it, although I think Pocock is better than Warburton (no red cards either).
Not sure about Poux, I'd have Woodcock or maybe Gethin, also think Mas was better than Adam Jones who I thought although he did the basics very well he looked a bit off the pace in the loose, not at his best. Big call between Dusatoir and Kaino, and have no idea what Clerc did to get picked a number of players were better than him. I also prefer beale to Dagg but given he kept breaking its the right call.
I thought Harry Ordinary was one of the men of the tournament, a fantastic player.
Mcaws performance against Australia was awe inspiring and if he has played with a gammy foot it makes it even more extraordinary.
Worst team has to be england, just a shambles on and off the pitch.
anagallis_arvensis - Member
ITV's Team of the tournament:
1. Jean-Baptiste Poux (France)
2. Keven Mealamu (New Zealand)
3. Adam Jones (Wales)
4. Brad Thorn (New Zealand)
5. Lionel Nallet (France)
6. Jerome Kaino (New Zealand)
7. Sam Warburton (Wales)
8. Imanol Harinorduquy (France)
9. Mike Phillips (Wales)
10. Rhys Priestland (Wales)
11. James O'Connor (Australia)
12. Ma'a Nonu (New Zealand)
13. Jamie Roberts (Wales)
14. Vincent Clerc (France)
15. Israel Dagg (New Zealand)
Not a single England player. Ouch! Probably fair though.
Not a single England, Ireland or Scotland player. Ouch! Probably fair though.
FTFY 😉
I thought Harry Ordinary was one of the men of the tournament, a fantastic player.
Agreed. It's a joy to watch him playing. Thought he was superb yesterday, especially in the lineout.
Nonu and Roberts a bit to similar to compliment eachother????
Irish or Scottish was a given 😉
AA - can you really not see the significant difference?
AA - can you really not see the significant difference?
no, or at least not a difference the players can control had AWJ not had Bevingtons support Radike would have rotated more and come down faster
Nonu and Roberts a bit to similar to compliment eachother????
Yes, but having said that Nonu has improved his passing a kicking a lot in the last few years so it would be a pairing worth looking at.
Warburton - lifted him significantly higher and dropped him vertically on his head. the other one did not lift as high and dropped him on his back. His feet weerenot lifted high either
Now these things are the criteria on which these tackles should be judged was he lifted high - feet above head, was he dropped on his head?
In one tackle - Warburton the answers are yes, in the other one its no.
No justification for a green machine player to be in there, even if BOD is better than Roberts - if you don't make it past the last eight, then you shouldn't really have a name in the top 15.
I still have absolutely no problem with Warburton's sending off - it was entirely justified, and the hypocritical whinging from some here is about as tiresome as it gets. The laws are pretty unequivocal concerning that type of tackle. Rolland had no option, no matter what we might like to think.
Pocock is better than Warburton.
I also wish we'd seen more Zerzewski in the tournament (for being absolutely gorgeous as much as anything else - definitely the best looking number 2 in the world) 🙂
Firstly Clerc doesnt land on his head he lands on his neck Radike lands on upper shoulders/neck. AW J drops the player just like Warburton but Bevington keeps hold, I fail to see the differences in height, I think your just confused by one being a close up the other not.
Law 10.4 on 'spear tackles' reads: "It is dangerous play to lift a player from the ground and drop or drive that player into the ground whilst that that player's feet are still off the ground so that the player's head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground."
certainly Radike's upper body hits the ground first, you can also see AWJ look at the ref after.
I also wish we'd seen more Zerzewski in the tournament
The SA sub hooker was the best in the tournament IMO
😆 I was called a big fag for saying that Zerzewski was a looker, he is a hunk of man love.
Pocock over Warburton, Jane over Clerc.
Good to see O'Connor in there, he's going to be an all-time great.
Hard to overlook Morné Steyn at 10 seeing as he's the only one who seemed to be able to kick!
Szarzewski was a looker, he is a hunk of man love.
His wife's a bit of a looker as well....
If ITV's selection of commentators throughout the tournament is anything to go by, then their "Team of the Tournament" aint the alpha and omega of rugby either.
I thought Francois Pinaar was really good, enjoyed listening to him and Sean Fitzpatrick. As for that other tit...
Hels, you are thinking of the pundits( dudes in the studio), I'm talking about this lot
:Commentators: Nick Mullins, Simon Ward, Martin Gillingham, Bob Symonds
Has Sam Waburton done another dangerous tackle, or are you still arguing two weeks after his first one?
Not sure who I was meaning, just that everytime Dalaglio opened his mouth, jobbies fell out.
Has Sam Waburton done another dangerous tackle, or are you still arguing two weeks after his first one?
AA is trying (and failing) to give TJ a lesson in how black is white. He seems to have missed (pun intended) the point that had Wales kicked even half their kicks in the France game, they would have won. The sending off was a moot point two weeks ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bendirs/2011/10/world_cup_team_of_the_tourname.html
Love the pic of Charteris here;
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IRB Awards:
France captain and World Cup final man-of-the-match Thierry Dusautoir has taken out the IRB Player of the Year at an awards ceremony in Auckland.
The IRB Team of the Year went to the new world champions, The All Blacks, while Graham Henry was named Coach of the Year.
He seems to have missed (pun intended) the point that had Wales kicked even half their kicks in the France game, they would have won. The sending off was a moot point two weeks ago.
I thought a moot point meant it was open to interpretation or have I always missunderstood?
But you keep trying to think something other than what I've said Zokes, it really does make the chips on your shoulder stand out, how you fail to understand simple english is beyond me, point out where I've said the Warburton decision was wrong, or how Wales not taking the points against France has anything remotely to do with the interpretation of tackle directives/laws, then point out to me how the AW Jones Bevington tackle was so vastly different as to not even be a penalty. If you cannot see how this sort of inconsistency in refereeing has serious implications for the game then I'll just label you as a rugby ignoramous like I do the people who think Gavin Henson isnt a talented player.
Gavin Henson isnt a talented player.
A talented player or not, he's a fantastically talented TV personality.
A talented player or not, he's a fantastically[i] untalented[/i] TV personality.
I wonder if Gav looks at how well it went for Wales in the world cup and thinks "bugger I could of been a part of that" I know he was injured but he must surely regret missing so much rugby when he went walk about.
I reckon he must do, he would have struggled to be much more than a bit part player even if he had gone though. It was intresting to read that the Cardiff chairmen decided to try and sign him after having been told by Martyn Williams about how amazed he was at how he was able to perform so well at Spala. I wonder if Gatland will see him as much use to Wales as he build towards the next world cup, he has talked of how he may overlook some older players in the short term.
Glitchybumpety****ery
bump
bump
BUMp
Or not ...he must surely regret missing so much rugby
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Glitch again
BUMPONTOTHENEXTPAGEFFS!
bumpyglitchy****ybump
Planet Rugby Readers' RWC XV: 15 Israel Dagg, 14 Cory Jane, 13 Ma'a Nonu, 12 Jamie Roberts, 11 George North, 10 Rhys Priestland, 9 Mike Phillips, 8 Toby Faletau, 7 Sam Warburton, 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Brad Thorn, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Keven Mealamu, Gethin Jenkins.
Faletau wasnt in the same league as Harry Ordinary
Have to agree with that AA Faletau was brilliant but Harry is a legend.
how you fail to understand simple english is beyond me
As opposed to failing to read what several of us have said on here: LET IT GO!
Even if you persuade myself, DD, TJ and maybe everyone else in STW that you are right, it still won't change the slightest thing. Pity you've clearly wasted the last two weeks worrying about this so much....
What have planet rugby's readers been smoking? 7 welshmen in their rwc 15, do me a ****ing favour...
Clso run thing but worst commentator was the Welsh bloke, sorry just so bad. Best (and i hated him as a Scotland supporter) Phil Vickery (celeb masterchef too)
What have planet rugby's readers been smoking? 7 welshmen in their rwc 15, do me a **** favour...
Ditto. Welshies were beaten by SA, France and Aus. If they had that many brilliant players they'd have a little golden cup in their hands right now.
LET IT GO!
I think a little of your own advice is needed its you that rabidly refuses to enter a debate about the rules of rugby and how they are enforced and brings is back to the result of a rugby match I've hardly mentioned. Its you that has thrown personnel insults so why dont you do your heart a favour and **** off?
If they had that many brilliant players they'd have a little golden cup in their hands right now.
Indeed, wool tinted glasses. Quelle surpris eh?
AA - we have all told you. Warburtons Red was harsh but fair, non of the other tackles you mention were nearly as bad. Its you that will not accept that its only your interpretation and it is not shared by anyone else at all.
It's been a great thread.
Probably time to lock it eh?
Move on to the next 6N where:
England will appoint Lievremont as coach thereby improving discipline
Wales will rediscover that they're rubbish and lose to Italy
France will be brilliant/hopeless
Ireland will finally realise that the "golden" generation is over
Scotland will score the fewest tries
Italy will wear the sharpest suits
Cue more bloody YouTube videos from a_a.
"Here lads, watch this tackle, and this one, and this one I found from The Valleys Under-Twelve Division 2 West League. Look at THAT. And the ref didn't even blink. Land of our fathers. Gym u vetch frwsyh cwpruywlllllllywmch ****!"
At the end of a great party there is always a good ruck 😀
It is the Welsh way 😉
Was u looking at my missus?
Was u looking at my missus?
Was your missus looking at my missus?
🙂
AA - we have all told you
you and Zokes are not [i]all[/i], you do realise that dont you? And your assertion that Clearc landed on his head is wrong for a start when you compared the two tackles I mentioned.
Do you not agree that the very fact we've had a world cup in which seaveral tackles were unpunished and later led to bans especially by Steve Walsh, another that got a straight red and a ban and led to lots of people being critical of the ref, including many impartial observers, when the ref was entirely correct and that one in the third place game which contary to what you say mights the criteria of a tip tackle (lifted and lands on upper back/neck) we can argue about the height but that isnt specified in the rules anyway. It seems to me the refs are in disarray I am very suprised justice hasnt been seen to be done by calling in AW Jones and Bevington and making a judgement on it and maybe explaining why it was legal.
The final question is, do the tacklers have control over the outcomes of these various tackles, if Radike had been a smaller player like Clerc they'd have properly broken him. The fine line between bans and a good tackle shouldnt come down to how the tackled player rides the tackle.
AA - you are the only person with I have heard anywhere with this interpretation.
None of the other tackles you have shown vid clips of are anywhere near as bad.
Its daft to say
if Radike had been a smaller player like Clerc they'd have properly broken him. The fine line between bans and a good tackle shouldnt come down to how the tackled player rides the tackle.
ThE tackle is judged on what did happen not what could have happened.
JUST PUT IT BEHIND YOU
And your assertion that Clearc landed on his head is wrong for a start when you compared the two tackles I mentioned.
Its absolutly clear from the video clips that the Warburton tackle is a dangerous one according tot he laws and the other one is not.
JUST PUT IT BEHIND YOU
Amen to that.
Its absolutly clear from the video clips that the Warburton tackle is a dangerous one according tot he laws and the other one is not.
The firat bit I agree with the second bit? why? read the rules. Your first comment was that he landed on his head, he didnt.
Its daft to sayif Radike had been a smaller player like Clerc they'd have properly broken him. The fine line between bans and a good tackle shouldnt come down to how the tackled player rides the tackle.
ThE tackle is judged on what did happen not what could have happened.
Are you not able to see the wider picture?
You do seem yo lack any feel for the game in almost all of what you say about it.
I have read the rules and they are quite clear. Feet above head, lifted high (above waist) and dropped on his head.
Warburtons tackle was illegal and dangerous - the other one you mention was not. Its really very clear and simple
😆
Ditto. Welshies were beaten by SA, France and Aus. If they had that many brilliant players they'd have a little golden cup in their hands right now.
This list can only contain brilliant players.
A brilliant player is defined by the possession of the World Cup.
Said list contains only New Zealand players?
Or are there other losers in there too?
Or are there other losers in there too?
Only one... the only non-Welshie or non-New Zealander in that list is Victor Matfield, and he IS a world cup winner.
A brilliant player is not defined by holding the RWC, nice leap you've made there. But a team with 7(!) of the 15 best players at the RWC would not have lost 3 times and failed to make the final, and they lost to a team who have no players in that list, and another who have only one.
You're just picking a fight, but whatever.
But unless he has his hands on the World Cup now, he shouldn't be on the list either according to doof_doof, and anyway it's just a readers' choice and as we can see here people will vote with their hearts and not with their heads and spout the usual rubbish.
Feet above head, lifted high (above waist) and dropped on his head.
for god sake TJ you showed me this in the first place:
Law 10.4(j) reads: Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player’s feet are still off the ground such that the player’s head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play.A directive was issued to all Unions and Match Officials in 2009 emphasizing the IRB’s zero-tolerance stance towards dangerous tackles and reiterating the following instructions for referees:
- The player is lifted and then forced or ‘speared’ into the ground (red card offence)
- The lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player’s safety (red card offence)
- For all other types of dangerous lifting tackles a yellow card or penalty may be considered sufficient
nothing to do with feet above head, Radike's head/and or upper body certainly hit the deck first and no question Clerc was rotated further the height thing is hard to judge as warburton and clerc are smaller than the people in the second incident.
You also havent explained why the ref's and touch judges all thought differently from Rolland and the IRB in the other cases in which players were banned, its massively inconsistent.
Only one... the only non-Welshie or non-New Zealander in that list is Victor Matfield, and he IS a world cup winner.A brilliant player is not defined by holding the RWC, nice leap you've made there. But a team with 7(!) of the 15 best players at the RWC would not have lost 3 times and failed to make the final, and they lost to a team who have no players in that list, and another who have only one.
Matfield didnt play that well IMO, Roussow was the best lock for SA and would be pushing a team of the tournament. As for welsh players there's no question Phillips and Roberts deserve to be there and Priestland played very well in a tournament when a lot of more vaunted tens played poorly, got injured or both in the sad case of Quade Cooper.
it's just a readers' choice and as we can see here people will vote with their hearts and not with their heads and spout the usual rubbish.
Agreed.
Phillips and Roberts deserve to be there
Can't argue with that.
Another video?
Wow!
looks a bit clearer on this dodgy video
The fine line between bans and a good tackle shouldnt come down to how the tackled player rides the tackle
Regarding the above point of how the tackle is ridden, do you really think Clerc chose to flip upside down and land on his head/back (depending on if you are AA)? How the tackle is made defines how or if it can be ridden safely.
Also just a thought, but maybe from where the referee was standing it looked like a straight red? If that was the case he would have no need to refer to his touchjudges. We had a different view at first then the opportunity to watch it several times to allow us to all come to our own opinions.
Ewwww! That does look pretty bad 😯
Hasn't the RWC finished?
Woah that doesnt look clever at all 🙁